Dealing with Affair

[Newguy2]

Wow... I'm making all of these emotional posts and not really listening to what is being told to me. I just had 2 calm days and thought I'd come back and re-read my latest posts and the responses again. Well I have to say that I'm really getting what has been said today - where when I initially read/posted, I didn't get it. I guess I should update where things are at.

My wife did have contact with the OM and didn't tell me right away. She talked with me about it and told me what there conversation was about. She encouraged the OM to be honest with his wife and told him how difficult it has been for her. How she wants to work on things with me and can't have contact again. Initially I got so caught up with the fact that she didn't tell me right away that I started going on about 'broken promises'. Then I realized how I'm looking for reasons to be mad (extra reasons) and not appreciating the fact that my wife has been honest (to my understanding) and open about all of my questions. Even when the truth would hurt.

My wife and I had a lengthy (calm) discussion. She realizes she needs to work on herself and inner reasons that she chose to have the affair. She has scheduled an appointment for individual therapy. She also seems to be more understanding of the dynamics in our relationship and her own impact upon everything that happened. I haven't seen this much introspection from her in the past as usually she's so focused on what I'm not doing for her. I think this will help us. I think it will help me to focus on myself. Really look at who I want to be.

I think I also need to let go of the pressure on myself. I think I feel like if our relationship isn't going to work out then it might as well end here. Then 'I' can say 'I ended it because she had an affair on me' (it wasn't my fault). If we wait 1-3 or more years and she ends the relationship then I'll feel like it's my fault. Ties right into my belief of myself of not being good enough. So I need to let go of that line of thinking. It's not helpful. It's keeping me stuck. I need to focus on what I want in my life and let go of worrying about what the impact will be in the future.

[Accuray]

I guess my compatibility struggle is my wife wants me around her all the time - doing things with her. Which leads to me not getting time to do the things I enjoy. Or if I'm doing them, she will seem upset. Communication will need to be looked at if we are to continue.

usually she's so focused on what I'm not doing for her

These quotes were very inciteful to me. It reads as if your wife has historically demanded lots of time and attention from you to an extreme degree. If you didn't give enough in her view she would get upset with you. Then you would feel guilty for letting her down and try to make it up to her while also resenting the fact that she's making you jump these hurdles.

Is that an accurate statement of one of your relationship dynamics?

How do you feel about that?

What is her role in that dynamic and what is yours?

How can you change that dynamic so that you can both be happier? (Note: what can YOU do, not what could she do)

Acc

[Newguy2]

I think it is an accurate statement to our relationship dynamics. My wife seems to always want more with life. She wants my time. She wants my support. She wants (this is my opinion) what she sees other people doing.

I think I feel overwhelmed with giving and it builds resentment. Most weekends fly by and I always think about the things I didn't get to do. I get stuck on feeling like I 'wasted' my weekend. But reality is that I didn't waste the weekend - I like spending time with her. I just think the resentment builds that I wasn't able to do more of what I enjoy.

Communication will be very important. I think I will need to express more when I need time to myself and make sure I take the time. Make sure that I communicate to my wife that by having the time I need for myself it will improve the time we have together. Because I won't have the resentment and I'll feel more energized to put more into the relationship. We could also compromise on the time I take - agree that I can have 30 minutes to 1 hour doing something on my own. Once we have agreed - not only will she feel less frustrated when I 'sneak away' but I will feel less guilt when she notices I sat down to watch TV.

I think it would also be beneficial to compromise on what I can do more of around the house. Helping her more with responsibilities that we have settled into our 'roles' with... such as helping with laundry, dishes, cleaning. This way she will have more time and she won't feel resentful like she is the family maid.

[Tobias]

This has been an interesting thread to read as I recognize a lot of what Newguy2 went through (or is going through).

Key difference with my situation is: duration. They spoke for (I am guessing) about one or two months before they even met up. But I read some of the same worries that I have. She ALSO talks about missing a friend and in this case my W doesn't have many friends and so I feel guilty for telling her to stop contacting him. I honestly don't even want that.

[fade]

I think it is an extremely bad idea to condone any contact between OM and your WW. You are basically back to square one with hoping she will get over him, and there are overwhelming odds that they will keep in contact and restart the affair.


I just want to make a couple of observations from what you described, because I think you are hitting all the marks for a repeat victim:

She has faced almost no consequences. I never see things end well when the guilty party gets away with it.

Your description sounds like she has a stunning lack of empathy for you. She does not regret the affair. That she gave you a deadline for a decision is really, really selfish of her. Her line about not trusting you, and 'everyone does it' is something else entirely.

Her anger at you for informing OMW is inappropriate, and her concern for OM is even more misplaced.

You seem to be making a lot of compromises for your WW, and she is making none for you. You both seem to care more about her feelings than your own. There is truth to the axiom "the one who cares less in the relationship has the power".

With her history of threatening divorce or separation, and your extreme case of one-itis, she either is ambivalent about your marriage, or she knows she has you in her back pocket no matter what.

Sorry, but I see this all the time and I would bet very large sums of money that she will restart this affair, unless OMW is in the way, then she will start another one and hide her tracks better.

The decision to stay or leave is up to you. But either way, I strongly urge you to stop putting her ahead of yourself and find your own strength. You need strength to leave. You need even more strength to stay and re-balance your relationship if you hope to have a successful reconciliation. Here is a to-do list:

-Consult with at least 2 lawyers to know your rights and options.

-Document and save proof of her affair, which you may need in the divorce, or after.

-Dont keep her secret for her. Wide exposure is a no-no in DB, but I think hiding it for her makes you complicit.

-Reach out to your support network (family, close friends, boss) so that you can receive the support you need. Dont bear this all on your own.

-In addition to the DB materials, make sure you read 'hold on to your nuts' and especially 'no more mr nice guy' which you can find free online. Do the breaking free activities.

-Take back the master bedroom and make her stay in the guest room. Really, why do you need to run away?!

-Follow the 180

[Accuray]

I think I feel overwhelmed with giving and it builds resentment. Most weekends fly by and I always think about the things I didn't get to do. I get stuck on feeling like I 'wasted' my weekend. But reality is that I didn't waste the weekend - I like spending time with her. I just think the resentment builds that I wasn't able to do more of what I enjoy.

It's great that you have figured this out. If you end up leaving your wife and starting a new relationship down the line, I can pretty much guarantee that you're going to get into exactly the same dynamic again with someone else, unless *you* change how you contribute to it.

The first part of it you figured out, you need to state what you need and then do it. The second part is to figure out for yourself how much responsibility you own for your wife's needs.

Let's say you want to watch TV for an hour on Sunday night, but she thinks you should be going for a walk with her instead. You can truly get yourself excited to go for a walk with her and fully buy in and have a great time with no regrets, you can agree to go for the walk to keep the peace, but resent her for making you do it, or you can tell her "no" you're going to watch TV instead because you need some time to relax.

The first option is the best but sometimes it's just not possible to buy into what the other person wants to do at the moment they want to do it, particularly if you already have your mind set on something.

The second option is the worst, and operating in that mode eventually leads to a marriage breaking down.

The third option is also perfectly fine, but here's where people get into trouble -- you choose to say "no", she gets mad at you and then blows it up into a big thing that you "never do what she wants" etc. etc. etc. You feel guilty about that and seek to make it right by doing something else for her, or not watching TV next time, and your resentment builds and builds.

Instead, you need to understand that *she* is responsible for deciding to get upset in that circumstance. She could say "okay I understand, enjoy your show!" and then go do something she likes to do. The fact that instead she got mad about it is on her -- you don't own that, and you don't have to make it right.

In fact, in many cases giving in to that kind of behavior makes a relationship partner feel "unsafe". If they can push you around and you don't stand up for yourself, then they don't trust that you will stand up for them. This is called a "fitness test" -- google it.

Obviously this has limits -- your wife has needs in the relationship that need to be met, and assuming they are reasonable you *are* responsible for that, so it's not acceptable to never go for a walk with her, or to always prefer TV over time with her, you need to work out a reasonable compromise where you both get what you need, but I get the sense from your write-up that is not the problem for you.

Instead, what she's trying to take from you feels like sand pouring onto a pile. No matter how hard you shovel, you can't move the sand out faster than it pours in. Eventually you develop a "why bother" attitude. Your spouse is threatened by the fact that you don't seem to be committed the relationship and that prompts them to try to extract even more from you which exacerbates the situation and around you go.

You break that chain by agreeing on what you will do for her, and what time you need for you, and then enforcing it and realizing that if she doesn't like what she agreed to, that's on her and you are NOT responsible for cheering her up, she needs to self-soothe and work through it on her own.

I would try implementing some of these changes before you give up on your M. Even if you decide to break things off, this will be an excellent opportunity to improve your own relationship dynamics.

Acc

[Newguy2]

My wife and I are continuing to 'work on things'. We are sleeping in the bedroom together again. I'm still ambivalent - but I'm calm and collected in my ambivalence. I've decided I don't need to rush anything and part of me 'working on things' is to see if I think our relationship is salvageable.

We attended two sessions of couples counseling and brought up my ambivalence, so the therapist asked to meet with me alone. This was yesterday. What a good session. Similar to what everyone has been stating to me and the themes of my writings - he helped me realize that I'm constantly putting my wife before myself. That I constantly accept it when my relationship needs are not being met - while focusing too much on trying to meet her needs. He encouraged me to start to focus on myself and communicate with my wife openly and clearly what I need in the relationship... and that I can even use it as a test to see if she can give me what I need.

In therapy I clearly understanding how I'm not treated as an equal in the relationship. My wife continuously breaks promises/commitments - simple things like agreeing to be the DD when we go to a party - then I turn around and she's completely intoxicated so I have to sober up. To making an agreement before visiting friends/family on when we will leave - when I remind her it's time to go, she'll say "just give me a few minutes" which turns into another hour.

We also talked about my difficulty in openly expressing myself to my wife. How I bring up things that she has done that hurt my feelings - she gets angry at me/turns it around on me - and I end up being the one apologizing.

What I've planned to focus on is identifying what I want to do. What I need. And making plans to do it and/or asking my wife to support it. The first step was she drinks alcohol too often and too much - so she has agreed to go 1 month without alcohol and reassess whether we continue it.

I'm also going to try to be aware when I feel guilty and ask myself 'have I done anything wrong?' - if not, continue to do what I'm doing and try to let go of the guilt. This comes up when I sit down to watch tv and my wife comes by - I feel guilty as if I shouldn't be doing it.

So the major thing I'm focusing on is myself. How I can change my own thoughts and behaviors to more align with what I want in the relationship. And if my wife can't realign with me - then the relationship is not going to work. I'm going to give it time and just stay focused.

The therapist is going to meet with me alone for half a session and then meet with my wife alone before meeting us together again.

[Newguy2]

This has been an interesting thread to read as I recognize a lot of what Newguy2 went through (or is going through).

Key difference with my situation is: duration. They spoke for (I am guessing) about one or two months before they even met up. But I read some of the same worries that I have. She ALSO talks about missing a friend and in this case my W doesn't have many friends and so I feel guilty for telling her to stop contacting him. I honestly don't even want that.

My wife and the OM texted/spoke online and on phone for 5 months before meeting in person - some of that had to do with living locations and that I'm around her a lot. They had sex the month after meeting up.

As for feeling guilty - I get it. I felt lots of guilt when my wife 'mourned' the loss of that relationship. But I know - for me - I can not be with her if she was to continue to have contact with him. If I discovered any contact that she wasn't completely up front with me about - I would end it. And I've continued to snoop her stuff (mind you, she changed her password on her phone... but I know I can get her to change it back).

[Newguy2]

I think it is an extremely bad idea to condone any contact between OM and your WW. You are basically back to square one with hoping she will get over him, and there are overwhelming odds that they will keep in contact and restart the affair.

She has faced almost no consequences. I never see things end well when the guilty party gets away with it.

Your description sounds like she has a stunning lack of empathy for you. She does not regret the affair. That she gave you a deadline for a decision is really, really selfish of her. Her line about not trusting you, and 'everyone does it' is something else entirely.

Her anger at you for informing OMW is inappropriate, and her concern for OM is even more misplaced.

You seem to be making a lot of compromises for your WW, and she is making none for you. You both seem to care more about her feelings than your own. There is truth to the axiom "the one who cares less in the relationship has the power".

With her history of threatening divorce or separation, and your extreme case of one-itis, she either is ambivalent about your marriage, or she knows she has you in her back pocket no matter what.

Sorry, but I see this all the time and I would bet very large sums of money that she will restart this affair, unless OMW is in the way, then she will start another one and hide her tracks better.

The decision to stay or leave is up to you. But either way, I strongly urge you to stop putting her ahead of yourself and find your own strength. You need strength to leave. You need even more strength to stay and re-balance your relationship if you hope to have a successful reconciliation. Here is a to-do list:

-Consult with at least 2 lawyers to know your rights and options.

-Document and save proof of her affair, which you may need in the divorce, or after.

-Dont keep her secret for her. Wide exposure is a no-no in DB, but I think hiding it for her makes you complicit.

-Reach out to your support network (family, close friends, boss) so that you can receive the support you need. Dont bear this all on your own.

-In addition to the DB materials, make sure you read 'hold on to your nuts' and especially 'no more mr nice guy' which you can find free online. Do the breaking free activities.

-Take back the master bedroom and make her stay in the guest room. Really, why do you need to run away?!

-Follow the 18

I answered some of this in my post above. You're right, I'm putting her feelings and needs before my own and I need to work on that. I need to accept that sometimes she is going to be upset and angry with me - but if I've done nothing wrong then it's not my problem to fix.

I think her misplaced anger and concern is a result of the affair and her strong emotional attachment to the OM. I think Sandi2 (?) has a post on the WW and describes how they don't think clearly. I'm hoping that in time she will start to think more clearly and realize how messed up her thoughts were at the time of the affair and when it was revealed. Because if she can't have empathy and understanding of my situation - then I can't stay in this relationship.

And I don't want to reveal the affair or seek supports - I know I need them... but I don't want people to know. I'm afraid of the judgment on me if I decide to stay. I'm afraid my family will judge and treat her differently. It has taken a lot of time and effort/encouragement for my wife to build a decent relationship with my parents. I don't want to ruin it. We live in an area which is all small communities - if one person is told it's very likely the rumor will fly.

[Newguy2]

Well... back into the emotional mess.

My wife had to go overnight to a nearby city for work-related reasons (where she met up with the OM most of the time) and stayed at her brother's place. I tracked her and she didn't go into the city, just where she was supposed to be. And I don't think OM would have met up with her - I'm quite sure they still haven't had contact. Anyway, I felt off all last night and kept making sure she was where she was supposed to be with iphone tracking (which she knows we both have turned on). She arrived home last night and I tried to be happy, but I felt so depressed. I told her it was because I didn't sleep very well - which is true.

I felt better this morning because we went to bed early together. The morning was back to the routine. I thought I should talk to her about what I was going through yesterday a bit more in-depth so she would understand so I called her. She was still at home. I found out that last night when I was sleeping she went through my text messages in my phone to my sister. I told my sister that I was strongly thinking about leaving my wife and that my wife wanted to work on things. This was 3-4 weeks ago - and it continues that I told my sister we decided to go to marital counseling and work on things. My wife was all upset about it saying "now I'm going to be embarrassed to be around your sister". I said "think about how it is for me to be around/talk to your friend who knows about the affair..." My sister really knows nothing about the affair.

Then I find out that she went into my facebook and read my facebook messages to the OMW. She realized that I sent the OMW copies of text messages that my wife and I had sent. My wife went on about feeling 'violated'. I said 'I know you don't agree with me contacting the OMW, but I think I did the right thing. I needed to send her some proof so the OM wouldn't lie his way out of it'. I then said "I know I violated your privacy by copying the texts - but you violated our marriage'. I then started going on about how she doesn't understand how this has been for me because she is so caught up in her own emotions. She hung up on me.

I then sent her a text message stating 'We can talk again once you've collected yourself. Let me know when YOU want to talk'. She responded "I'm sorry - I just can't fight and be a mess before work. Our conversation wasn't productive'. And "no worries I won't bring emotions to you'.

I haven't responded to her because I'm so angry. Anyone have any thoughts on this?