Wife moved to parents on opposite coast #3

[Matrix]

I am assuming that you don't want your wife's name on here because you put "(her name") in the above post. But you used her name and your cousins name in the post above that.

You might want to see if Cadet can edit that post and "xxxxx" their names if you don't want them in a public forum.

[Georgiabelle]

Cali,

I'm sorry you find yourself here and you've received great advice. I know you feel your story is unique (most of us did), but 3 1/2 years later I find that all are some variation of the same. Honestly, I don't read in the newcomers section much because it's tough to read. All of the stories. You seem, hurt, sad and angry. And that's totally normal! It's a super caca situation.

In regards to what your friends think, people think what they think, right? I'm sure they are shocked and think she's being crazy. It doesn't really matter what they think. It matters what your w thinks. Yes, I know she is acting the complete opposite. X Mr GB used to *grandstand* about how horrible people who cheat are. How people are so quick to divorce and divorce is not an option. And the people who essentially relegate their kids as not a priority? Horrible he said. Yet, he did things I was legitimately shocked and hurt by-as are my kids. He battles severe anxiety and clinical depression. Yet you know what? I think he did the best he could with the tools he had to work with. While I may have handled things differently, I certainly wasn't wife of the century. I have a long laundry list of flaws as we all do. Some I have made great strides in bettering -otherwise I'm a work in progress. Aren't we all? I could list my attributes and faults but I'll skip that song and dance.

I see no harm in a simple, short reply to your w's text. I would say to slow down, take a deep breath, and just let things transpire. What's the rush? Yep. I know she said D papers are coming. Maybe they do and maybe they don't. Gotta live in between. I know you said if you reconciled it would be on your terms. THAT probably won't work for your W right now. So, what do you do in the meantime?

I do wish you well. I know it's a difficult place to be.

[Cali08]

Cali,

I'm sorry you find yourself here and you've received great advice. I know you feel your story is unique (most of us did), but 3 1/2 years later I find that all are some variation of the same. Honestly, I don't read in the newcomers section much because it's tough to read. All of the stories. You seem, hurt, sad and angry. And that's totally normal! It's a super caca situation.

In regards to what your friends think, people think what they think, right? I'm sure they are shocked and think she's being crazy. It doesn't really matter what they think. It matters what your w thinks. Yes, I know she is acting the complete opposite. X Mr GB used to *grandstand* about how horrible people who cheat are. How people are so quick to divorce and divorce is not an option. And the people who essentially relegate their kids as not a priority? Horrible he said. Yet, he did things I was legitimately shocked and hurt by-as are my kids. He battles severe anxiety and clinical depression. Yet you know what? I think he did the best he could with the tools he had to work with. While I may have handled things differently, I certainly wasn't wife of the century. I have a long laundry list of flaws as we all do. Some I have made great strides in bettering -otherwise I'm a work in progress. Aren't we all? I could list my attributes and faults but I'll skip that song and dance.

I see no harm in a simple, short reply to your w's text. I would say to slow down, take a deep breath, and just let things transpire. What's the rush? Yep. I know she said D papers are coming. Maybe they do and maybe they don't. Gotta live in between. I know you said if you reconciled it would be on your terms. THAT probably won't work for your W right now. So, what do you do in the meantime?

I do wish you well. I know it's a difficult place to be.

Thank you for commenting on my thread and giving advice. My comment about being on my terms was referring to be way down the road, as is a year or more after the divorce. In other words, I have moved on and suddenly she wants back in my life. Otherwise I am well aware that I am the one who has to make the greatest changes if we somehow decide to reconcile this anytime soon. I honestly don't feel like she will want to and I really don't know why she is texting me now.

I never responded to her today and it feels great! My brother came over and we got something to eat watched a few things on TV and then played games of darts and now one of my good buddies is on his way over. Not trying to think of how I should respond and just ignoring it feels great, but I know deep down I probably should if I am to do the right thing. I am just tired of playing the game. This isn't a game to me and it's like a chess match, but it's always pressure on me to make the right move and my wife gets to make up the rules as we go. I may respond to her late tonight after my buddy leaves and she can see it in the morning or I can wait a few days before responding to her. I will just say hi and answer her question and that's it I suppose. I'm sure things will continue as normal after that and I'll get no response.

[25yearsmlc]

Thornton, 25year - Why haven't things ultimately worked out for you guys after you reconciled the first time. Are the changes you making not working or is it the other person or both?

We were married for 35 years, most of which was very good to great. No drama, no break ups and no divorce talks. All good and all solid. We both finished a LOT of schooling and became professionals and we had 3 kids and built a family of 5.

After the "Alaskan Episode/MLC", We reconciled for over 10 years.

NO offense, but If memory serves, my m was longer than you've been alive, and the reconciliation lasted longer than you have been married, in total.

I'm not sure if you meant to sound snarky. I take no offense, but I'm surprised b/c it could sound as if you are trying to shut me up with a trump card you don't really have.

When the "Alaskan Episode occurred, in the world's eyes, we were effectively separated.

What did I do? I came here a lot, and I saw a therapist and I had a DB coach and I went to personal growth workshops, and man, I sure GAL big time. After 2 years of frequent visits, We fully reconciled, and for over a decade.

Speaking only for my situation, I don't think we made mistakes reconciling. I think we reconciled rather beautifully.

It took 2 years for us to reconcile, the first of which I wasted wondering what my h was doing/feeling/planning and reading all I could about MLC.

The 2nd year, though I did want to save the m, I had an internal timeline of when my purgatory limbo would end. (D1 was to finish high school in 2007 and I would not have continued on if h had not begun trying go get back into our m, in late 2006). I began to move on or at least to become who i wanted to become, without actually dating.

SIDENOTE - I did briefly date when we legally sep but I never slept with anyone and the weird thing people have a hard time believing is that the few dates I had were mostly with smart nice guys and yet the times with them mostly made me feel that h and I were quite well suited for each other. In other words I missed h more, usually. That is why I bristle when I see people say "There's ALWAYS an affair and they are ALWAYS physical"...b/c my dates could have been and were not. But I digress.


When we reconciled, h said what needed to be said. We also went to Retrovaille and I think it was a Godsend, as was my DB coach. There were breakthroughs in Retrovaille that made me feel he really did "get it", that he was remorseful for the damage done to our d's, and I felt he was again, my soulmate. Back on track.

But 4 months into reconciling (up in Alaska, btw) h's mother became terminally ill. She was given 6 months to live, so we moved to help her out. Piecing is the real challenge -- I think in every case - but we shelved it. I didn't know better than, and I didn't see that curve ball coming.

Then she lived 22 months. I'm not complaining, please understand that.

I'm just saying that we didn't really "Plan" on a long term financial burden, or that much time not addressing things in the m that would help us get to why h could leave a loving family for that long and not ache more. The underlying reasons for his choices, were never addressed. THAT was our mistake. Not piecing well or thoroughly.

With his mom sick, We went into crisis mode, and never really got back on track. I did the heavy lifting in the relationship, as usual. But when his mom got so sick, I just did not feel I could redirect our emotional energies towards our m, when h seemed to be in reserve mode.

My marital situation was very different from Thornton's. But he can advise you

But I'll pass on what my DB coach & I came up with, which was customized for me.


Keep the road home, paved and smooth. (Not saying piecing would be all paved, but don't create obstacles to reconciling)
. It'll be hard enough for someone to return, as it is. The more people who know, the more damage done by either party, & the rockier the road home is).

In other words, you make it harder for your w to return by advertising the problems or drafting allies in the war to get her back. IT tends to corner the WAS into staying away.

Do Not keep challenging their choices, b/c the more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them.


Lose the anger, or at least Show no anger to your spouse. NO, it Does not matter if it's righteous anger; what matters is that it pushes them away. Period.

Do not fuel their negative images/complaints by behaving in ways they've complained of before. IF they say you are "always late", you become Mr Punctual. Show them that their data about you is invalid or no longer applicable. Counter those negatives with positives, which shows change on your end.

Be positive and upbeat b/c that's just more attractive. Discussing the damage they have done to you (or the family or financial ruin) is not helpful if reconciliation is the goal.

Guilt won't get them back to stay. Showing them how miserable you are does not prove you really felt love; it's motivation for them to flee more. And it sometimes reflects a weakness, not a strength.


Applaud loudly for the 1% of positives the spouse does, which can be way harder than it sounds. But it for sure encourages more of the same -positives - and that was my goal. It's also not a permanent suggestion as far as I know.

Be a person of strength and honor in all you do. Don't confuse self respect with false pride, and do what you believe in your heart will leave you with no regrets later.

H had no history of leaving, or not paying bills, or being overtly selfish or dishonest in 25 years.

So in a number of big ways his behavior then was totally new. That is why I accepted the possibility of an MLC. In in retrospect I'm not sure that's much more than an attempt at understanding things we cannot make sense of.

I GAL in a way I'm still amazed by and happy about. I had 3 children watching me so I had to set an example. I was committed to the marriage and to my h, and I'm a loyal person.

One size does Not fit all, AND some LBSers should pursue. But a DB coach helps b/c then you only have advice coming from those who have heard your whole story

Many times posters enter the thread and hear only the last 2 weeks of a situation, or don't know what you said originally, or assume that the 37 "rules" are actually rules, when they are not.

They are guidelines Sandi assembled one day, based on MWD's teachings in DB...and even then, she writes that NOT ALL of these suggestions apply, MONITOR FOR RESULTS...


I was not among those who said not to pursue. At the start I thought you should have flown out there, and at least offered, sincerely, to quit your job when you could. I'm not beating a dead horse now or belaboring that point.

But if you want to know what to do NOW, call a db coach and give them ALL the info at once,
b/c I don't think you realized how relevant that information was to some of us. This is not all about her.

^^Which is great news. Because if you had been a perfect h and your w still left, then you'd be powerless.

Instead of putting your focus and energy on what you can do to make her change,

turn inward. That's where the real power is.

[Cali08]

I am assuming that you don't want your wife's name on here because you put "(her name") in the above post. But you used her name and your cousins name in the post above that.

You might want to see if Cadet can edit that post and "xxxxx" their names if you don't want them in a public forum.

Yeah I did see that afterwards, but no way to edit it from my side. If she can edit then that would be great, but I don't think it's that big of a deal with just a first name. At least I hope not. haha!

[OwnIt]

Great post 25. A lesson for everyone on here.

[Cali08]

Thornton, 25year - Why haven't things ultimately worked out for you guys after you reconciled the first time. Are the changes you making not working or is it the other person or both?

We were married for 35 years, most of which was very good to great. No drama, no break ups and no divorce talks. All good and all solid. We both finished a LOT of schooling and became professionals and we had 3 kids and built a family of 5.

After the "Alaskan Episode/MLC", We reconciled for over 10 years.

NO offense, but If memory serves, my m was longer than you've been alive, and the reconciliation lasted longer than you have been married, in total.

None taken, but you are incorrect about my age. You are close though. There are a lot of things out there that have lasted longer than my marriage of only a couple years! haha!

I'm not sure if you meant to sound snarky. I take no offense, but I'm surprised b/c it could sound as if you are trying to shut me up with a trump card you don't really have.

This is exactly why I say that my writing is taken out of context because that isn't even remotely the case. Like I said you have some things about me pinned wrong. I wanted to know for the sake of learning. It seems there are a lot of people on here who reconcile, but it never lasts. If my reconciliation isn't going to last then it isn't worth it in the long run is what I am thinking. I wanted to know why things didn't work and because it could give me insight to my situation.

When the "Alaskan Episode occurred, in the world's eyes, we were effectively separated.

What did I do? I came here a lot, and I saw a therapist and I had a DB coach and I went to personal growth workshops, and man, I sure GAL big time. After 2 years of frequent visits, We fully reconciled, and for over a decade.

Speaking only for my situation, I don't think we made mistakes reconciling. I think we reconciled rather beautifully.

It took 2 years for us to reconcile, the first of which I wasted wondering what my h was doing/feeling/planning and reading all I could about MLC.

The 2nd year, though I did want to save the m, I had an internal timeline of when my purgatory limbo would end. (D1 was to finish high school in 2007 and I would not have continued on if h had not begun trying go get back into our m, in late 2006). I began to move on or at least to become who i wanted to become, without actually dating.

SIDENOTE - I did briefly date when we legally sep but I never slept with anyone and the weird thing people have a hard time believing is that the few dates I had were mostly with smart nice guys and yet the times with them mostly made me feel that h and I were quite well suited for each other. In other words I missed h more, usually. That is why I bristle when I see people say "There's ALWAYS an affair and they are ALWAYS physical"...b/c my dates could have been and were not. But I digress.

I find this insight very interesting. My wife got hit on a lot and she could never see anyone, but me in her eyes as the one she wanted. This is from her own words and when she was out with friends and my family. They would always talk about how things went down and how my wife dealt with them. I never ever was jealous or had trust issues between us. It's hard to see her change so quickly with things and when the issue of being divorced from me is still supposedly causing her pain to this day. It really makes no sense to me that things can be worked on so easily, yet she isn't even willing to give a try.

When we reconciled, h said what needed to be said. We also went to Retrovaille and I think it was a Godsend, as was my DB coach. There were breakthroughs in Retrovaille that made me feel he really did "get it", that he was remorseful for the damage done to our d's, and I felt he was again, my soulmate. Back on track.

But 4 months into reconciling (up in Alaska, btw) h's mother became terminally ill. She was given 6 months to live, so we moved to help her out. Piecing is the real challenge -- I think in every case - but we shelved it. I didn't know better than, and I didn't see that curve ball coming.

Then she lived 22 months. I'm not complaining, please understand that.

I'm just saying that we didn't really "Plan" on a long term financial burden, or that much time not addressing things in the m that would help us get to why h could leave a loving family for that long and not ache more. The underlying reasons for his choices, were never addressed. THAT was our mistake. Not piecing well or thoroughly.

With his mom sick, We went into crisis mode, and never really got back on track. I did the heavy lifting in the relationship, as usual. But when his mom got so sick, I just did not feel I could redirect our emotional energies towards our m, when h seemed to be in reserve mode.

My marital situation was very different from Thornton's. But he can advise you

But I'll pass on what my DB coach & I came up with, which was customized for me.


Keep the road home, paved and smooth. (Not saying piecing would be all paved, but don't create obstacles to reconciling)
. It'll be hard enough for someone to return, as it is. The more people who know, the more damage done by either party, & the rockier the road home is).

In other words, you make it harder for your w to return by advertising the problems or drafting allies in the war to get her back. IT tends to corner the WAS into staying away.

Do Not keep challenging their choices, b/c the more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them.

That is a very interesting thought and I try and try to keep my family out of it, but they pursue so hard. I get really tired of telling, really just my mother, no all the time. She feels so bad for lying to people about where my wife is. Now one of my aunts knows and so now everyone will know. It's something that I tried to control, but ultimately can't because people are going to do and say what they want to.

My mother is in conversation with my wife right now and she is responding to my mother. I will post what was last said between the two of them in another post. My mother is now trying to ask permission to talk to my wife, but I think I will advise my mother to change her last text to asking my wife to call her if she feels like she really wants too rather than my mother pushing the issue. Or should that be all together not good. I have told my mother over and over that it isn't her issue and it has nothing to do with her, but my mother loves my wife a great deal and is constantly thinking of her.


Lose the anger, or at least Show no anger to your spouse. NO, it Does not matter if it's righteous anger; what matters is that it pushes them away. Period.

Between my wife and I am certainly the one who shows no anger. Once my wife starts to talk about things that when I can really hear the anger and resentment in her voice, but it isn't coming from me. I talk very calmly to her and watch what what I say. When I talk to her I show lots of empathy and validate the things she says.


Do not fuel their negative images/complaints by behaving in ways they've complained of before. IF they say you are "always late", you become Mr Punctual. Show them that their data about you is invalid or no longer applicable. Counter those negatives with positives, which shows change on your end.

OK, so I am sure your going to say here he goes again with making excuses and what not. Anyway a big problem between us was communication, so how do I go about that not being an issue if everyone tells me I should shut my mouth and walk away. It's extremely conflicting to say the least. As of right now I have chose not to text my wife back after she text me yesterday morning, so is that the right idea or what. I feel communication is a huge key to this and that is all we have being so far apart with no connections at all.

Be positive and upbeat b/c that's just more attractive. Discussing the damage they have done to you (or the family or financial ruin) is not helpful if reconciliation is the goal.

Guilt won't get them back to stay. Showing them how miserable you are does not prove you really felt love; it's motivation for them to flee more. And it sometimes reflects a weakness, not a strength.

The one thing my wife will not see in me is weakness and please don't take this is a bad way, but trust me when I say that. It is a positive trait of mine and always have been it's a compliment and what people see in me most often. I have not and will not beg or plead. I have told her that I miss her and love, but that is not showing weakness. Besides all of that she is clearly seeing what I am up to because of Facebook and the momarazzi I have for a mother! haha!


Applaud loudly for the 1% of positives the spouse does, which can be way harder than it sounds. But it for sure encourages more of the same -positives - and that was my goal. It's also not a permanent suggestion as far as I know.

Be a person of strength and honor in all you do. Don't confuse self respect with false pride, and do what you believe in your heart will leave you with no regrets later.

That an interesting one because what I want to do is what everyone screams at me for wanting to do. Such as write a letter to her and see her face to face to end this thing in the right way.
That way I will have no regrets that I did come for her and she choose to still leave. I honestly think my wife would have preferred for me to show more interest and actually come after her to show that I really do love her and cared if she left or not. What I did do was let her go, although I said I didn't agree with it, I gave her the space and time she asked for and now I am here.

H had no history of leaving, or not paying bills, or being overtly selfish or dishonest in 25 years.

So in a number of big ways his behavior then was totally new. That is why I accepted the possibility of an MLC. In in retrospect I'm not sure that's much more than an attempt at understanding things we cannot make sense of.

I GAL in a way I'm still amazed by and happy about. I had 3 children watching me so I had to set an example. I was committed to the marriage and to my h, and I'm a loyal person.

I know a few around me who I watched do this same thing for their kids too, it's an awesome thing and something to be proud of.

One size does Not fit all, AND some LBSers should pursue. But a DB coach helps b/c then you only have advice coming from those who have heard your whole story

Problem with the coaching that I see is that they really don't know the whole situation and if I try to get them to understand it then I spend the entire phone conversation talking and I get very little out of them. It would be really awesome if I could request the DB coach to read my thread before I call them. I think that seems like a really good way to help someone even more. I mean it isn't a cheap thing to do.

Many times posters enter the thread and hear only the last 2 weeks of a situation, or don't know what you said originally, or assume that the 37 "rules" are actually rules, when they are not.

They are guidelines Sandi assembled one day, based on MWD's teachings in DB...and even then, she writes that NOT ALL of these suggestions apply, MONITOR FOR RESULTS...


I was not among those who said not to pursue. At the start I thought you should have flown out there, and at least offered, sincerely, to quit your job when you could. I'm not beating a dead horse now or belaboring that point.

But if you want to know what to do NOW, call a db coach and give them ALL the info at once,
b/c I don't think you realized how relevant that information was to some of us. This is not all about her.

^^Which is great news. Because if you had been a perfect h and your w still left, then you'd be powerless.

If you read the interaction she had with my mom then you can see that there is something still there so to speak, but like I said she responded to my mom again and you can see that it has a different feeling, in my opinion anyway.

Instead of putting your focus and energy on what you can do to make her change,

turn inward. That's where the real power is.

OK thanks 25year!! This has been by far the most helpful you have been to me largely because it was the most clear understanding I had reading your posts. I am thinking on calling a DB coach to see what my next step is now.

[Tobias]

SIDENOTE - I did briefly date when we legally sep but I never slept with anyone and the weird thing people have a hard time believing is that the few dates I had were mostly with smart nice guys and yet the times with them mostly made me feel that h and I were quite well suited for each other. In other words I missed h more, usually. That is why I bristle when I see people say "There's ALWAYS an affair and they are ALWAYS physical"...b/c my dates could have been and were not. But I digress.

That is what surprised me what my W was saying about OM. I was skeptical and maybe justifiably so but she said she slowly realized I was a great catch. She went from cold to a bit more interested in me when things got serious between them to very depressed and suicidal before I found out to being intimate and hopeful after I found out to now back to depression when I reminded her that it hurt me. So your advice to only communicate happy thoughts is something I have to internalize. And ONLY showing a side of me that she doesn't complain about. That's hard.

[Cali08]

My wife did respond to my mother again. I recapped and put her response on the bottom.

MOTHER-"You have NO IDEA how much you really are loved, how much Cali would do to save this marriage, and you are willing to throw it all away without even a backward glance. I don't understand."

WIFE-"It's not that I haven't taken a backwards glance at all. I am over here so you can't see what I have gone through. This was not something that just happened one day. These decisions have caused me a lot of pain and suffering and still is."

MOTHER-"Then why, (her name), won't you consider marriage counseling? Why isn't the marriage and the memories and the family and the love you shared worth the salvage? Please help me understand? I am hurting too, because you are so very special to me..... my first daughter in law, and the bonus was, you were easy to love. My thoughts keep going to what could have caused such an abrupt disconnect from all of us. I even feel bad there is no communication with your parents. I wish you could have felt you could talk to me comfortably. I wish I had known it was this bad for you. I'm sorry for any pressure I may have put on you. I wish I could have helped. Thank you for responding, (her name). I wasn't even sure I would hear from you."

WIFE- "You have put no pressure and I did talk to you about things before. It wasn't that I was not comfortable talking to you, that was never the case at all. I was not sure what to do. I wanted to keep in contact with you guys but wasn't sure if I should and I see y'all have a lot going on. With everything between Cali and I, I never wanted to hurt you or anyone else. I love you very much. I love the entire family and always will."

The response my wife gave seems to be very generic and just talk. It's pressure from my mother I can see it. I am going to tell me mom to back off, I just get tired of fighting it. I am telling everyone that everyone else seems to be taking this much worse than I am and that is tiring in itself to say the least.

[Cristy]

OK thanks 25year!! This has been by far the most helpful you have been to me largely because it was the most clear understanding I had reading your posts. I am thinking on calling a DB coach to see what my next step is now. [/color]

Hello Cali08,

I am sorry for the situation you are in.

The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach today. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004