Dealing with Affair

[Newguy2]

I feel a lot of shame/guilt in posting an update because I believe that I'm not following the great advice on here. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate it and value it. I reread my entire thread and so much of what you all have told me is true. I think it's difficult to see things clearly through this emotional fog.

I had my final session with my IC yesterday. We mutually finished because I'm involved in Couples Counseling and I'm thinking much clearer than my initial 'crisis'. We talked about compatibility in relationships and it got me thinking that my wife and I might not be that compatible. That doesn't mean we can't have a great relationship (I think we did) but it means we have to put in extra work. The struggle I have is I feel like I've been putting so much work into the relationship to 'make it work' that it eats up my time. I don't get time for the things I personally enjoy (which my wife doesn't) and I feel guilty when I do the things I enjoy because my wife wants me to spend time with her.

Anyway, yesterday I got into a strong phase of anger. I got back into thinking about the OMW and tried to contact the OMW by telephone to tell her about the affair - I did not reach her - the OM answered once and I hung up. I thought about calling him back and telling him I'm looking for his wife - and pursue it relentlessly (I know I could contact her eventually) but I decided to let it go.

I then got into thinking maybe I would be happier outside of my relationship with my wife. I went home and my wife noticed I was cold to her. She asked if I love her, I said 'yes', she asked "do you still want to be with me?" and I didn't respond. She took that as a no and started to become upset. She talked about how we had such a great weekend (which is partially true - again, me focusing all my energy on being with her) and she told me she is going to sleep in the spare room. So I told her "I'll sleep in the spare room" and I moved what I needed for the night to that room.

We barely talked. I kept looking at her as I felt very sad, guilty and I wanted to comfort her or talk - she responded by yelling "what are you looking at?" so I didn't pursue it. I spent the remainder of the night doing my own thing and went to bed early. She texted me saying 'are you ok?' and 'I don't like this. I hope you have a good sleep. I love you'. I didn't receive the messages until the next morning because my phone was charging on the other side of the room.

We have marital counseling today and we are planning to go together. She asked if I'm planning to 'break it off' in counseling - I told her that wasn't the plan. She said "I hope you won't do that to me".

My original plan was to speak with her last night about my compatibility concerns - prior to the MC. I wanted to lay out why I'm struggling so much plainly - focus on how I've felt in the relationship in the past (excluding the affair). So I'm thinking about bringing it up either in the car on the way to MC or during (or both).

I don't regret anything - I think our relationship needed the shake up. I could sit on the fence forever if I was allowed. I need to start making decisions that I think are best for me and worry less about how it will impact others.

[Accuray]

Hi Newguy2,

I'm glad to see all the introspection! Compatibility is an interesting dimension. The challenge with compatibility is that it tends to be elusive over the long run. People's interests, political leanings, lifestyle choices, etc. can change at any time and for any reason. You could love to play tennis, marry someone because they also love to play tennis, play tennis together every day, and then one of you gets a knee injury that prevents you from ever playing tennis again.

Instead of focusing on compatibility, I would focus more on who you are and who you want to be. It feels to me like you've been a "pleaser" historically, and a conflict avoider. If that's accurate, then you have a tendency to put your own needs in the back seat, and that can lead to resentment building and building which shows itself in not so great ways.

If that's the case, you should focus on *that* instead of compatibility. How do you have your own voice within the relationship? How do you become your own best advocate? How can you say "no" and feel good about it, and be confident that everything will still be okay?

In one model of relationships, both parties need to be willing and able to bring things to a head at any time -- to say "this isn't working for me, and if this [thing] doesn't change, then I'm going to leave."

The other person can agree to the change you want, reject the change you want, or negotiate a compromise that works for both of you. If they reject the change you want and won't compromise, then you need to leave. The stakes need to be real.

That dynamic forces the relationship to evolve so that it works for both of you, it keeps taking things to a higher level.

For instance, if your wife is hyper sensitive as you've described, you may say that her immediate emotional reactions to things don't work for you. That she needs to find a better way of processing her initial reactions, that you're willing to help her do it, but that you need to see a change.

Note that she needs to be empowered to do the same.

I'm not suggesting that you live your life with weekly ultimatums hurled back and forth, but that both parties being willing to blow things up when the situation becomes untenable is much better than silently letting resentment build in the interest of keeping the peace. Over time, that simply won't work.

Acc

[Newguy2]

I agree with what you are saying Accuray. I think I am the 'pleaser' in a lot of the situations. And I think my wife is emotionally reactive, which causes me to avoid conflict. We discussed asking for space when needed to 'process emotions' and calm down before re-engaging when it gets heated. I think this is a good way to deal with things.

I guess my compatibility struggle is my wife wants me around her all the time - doing things with her. Which leads to me not getting time to do the things I enjoy. Or if I'm doing them, she will seem upset. Communication will need to be looked at if we are to continue.

I've been spending more time to myself and sleeping in a different room. I feel like the space is helping me clear the head. However, I decided to make another attempt at contacting the OM wife - and I contacted her. I told her about the affair and she knew my wife's name. She said she suspected an affair but had no proof and her husband would lie his way out of it. I gave her a bunch of information and she thanked me for contacting her. I felt so happy. I feel like I did the right thing.

The OM then called me and I admitted to contacting his wife. He kept trying to find out what I told her - I told him that I wasn't telling him anything that I told his wife and that his best approach is to be completely honest otherwise she will catch him in lies. He then called my wife over and over - she called him back to find out what it was about and left a voice message. My wife was aware I contacted his wife. My wife is now in emotional turmoil. I think she feels guilty and responsible for the OM having problems in his marriage now. I told her that it was his choices that got him in trouble - if it wasn't her, it would have been someone else. I can tell she is very frustrated with me.

I asked her why she contacted him back when we agreed they wouldn't have contact - I don't know whether to feel disrespected by this or to write it off that she's a caring person. She turned it around on me saying I 'promised' not to contact the OMW - I made no such promise and I reminded her of that. I reminded her that I told her 2 days ago that I tried to contact her at her workplace.

Anyway, she decided to go for a walk - she needs to process her emotions. Now I need to focus my attention back on what I'm doing with my own marriage - mind you, I think I've thrown her off. She may decide to end it with me herself. But at this point - I'm fine with whatever happens. I'm just going to slow things down and take one step at a time.

I feel so much better that I informed the OM wife. She had a right to know.

[Tread]

Newguy,

You did the right thing regardless of the outcome. My W was pissed when I call the OM W. She seemed to care more about protecting him than my feelings whatsoever. And when I called her out on it, W kept saying that wasn't true. The affair fog has these W making choices that they can't even see them selves making. Trust me this has nothing to do with your W being a caring person.

[Newguy2]

My wife and I had a good conversation last night. She was much more calm but still overwhelmed with mixed emotions. She told me that because I contacted the OM wife and shared information that she feels she can't trust me anymore. I guess she feels like I used her completely honesty and openness against the OM (and maybe in a way against her?). I'm not sure how to feel about this.

I think she can understand my point of view that it was the 'right thing' to contact the OM Wife - and at the same time I think she is worried about the OM. She said she doesn't know what he will do - I don't know if she is scared he will hurt himself or lash out at someone else. I just don't want to be mixed up with the OM and his family/relationship anymore.

My wife hasn't had contact with the OM yet - she tried to call him back and only left a voice message. I asked her not to answer the phone and/or only speak with him with me present initially. However, we talked about it and she is so upset that I agreed that she could speak with him without me present. She said she is worried in speaking with him that she will say the wrong thing and it will upset me - which I know will happen. I want her to say "[OM} I thought we agreed not to contact each other. I know my husband contacted your wife, I didn't know he was going to and I can't have anymore contact with you. Goodbye" But that will never happen.

So I decided to compromise. I asked her to inform me immediately once they have had contact. I reminded her that me informing the OM wife had nothing to do with her. It was my choice and she wasn't even aware I was doing it. She doesn't even know what I shared with the OM wife (I told her I wasn't going to tell her in case she shares it with him). I said that she can speak with him without me present, but I need to know exactly what was said. She agreed.

What I find interesting is that I contacted the OM Wife on facebook. The exact method that my wife didn't want me to use because the OM 'monitors it'. After two months of trying to track down phone numbers, trying phone numbers, trying her work phone number... my original plan was the one that worked. I wish that I tried this method initially. Even though I am glad for doing the right thing - a lot of emotion has been resurfaced which may have been easier 1-2 months ago.

But again - it is what it is. Just keep taking small steps.

[Newguy2]

Sorry to double post - but I was just thinking about a conversation my wife and I had before this contacting OMW came up.

My wife told me that 'lots of people have affairs' and tried to give me examples of people we knew who have had affairs. She also talked about how relieved she felt when I found out. How she stopped covering her tracks because she wanted to be caught. She said she thought our relationship was strong enough to make it through this. I wonder if she wasn't strong enough to end the relationship with the OM and therefore needed me to rift them. Or if she is trying to justify herself. It makes me think that she still doesn't get it. That she still doesn't understand how much pain the affair has caused. She says she understands - I've 'hit her over the head' with the emotional pain and turmoil I'm experiencing - but I think she immediately guards herself by reflecting on herself and her own emotional pain. How difficult it is for her.

I'm glad I'm giving myself space from her to work through this as I don't want her thinking everything is fine and we haven't had any intimacy in almost a week (except two hugs and two exchanged 'I love you').

[MoveFrwd]

She told me that because I contacted the OM wife and shared information that she feels she can't trust me anymore.

Uh. OK. Shes the one that was with OM....she just expects that she has your blanket trust still...?

I think she can understand my point of view that it was the 'right thing' to contact the OM Wife

This is completely your opinion. I decided not to contact my ex's AP's spouse. And that person never contacted me. Honestly, OP's relationship with their ex isnt my problem. Just because you think it's "right" doesnt make it so for everyone.

I just don't want to be mixed up with the OM and his family/relationship anymore.

And yet, you contacted her....?

My wife hasn't had contact with the OM yet - she tried to call him back and only left a voice message. I asked her not to answer the phone and/or only speak with him with me present initially. However, we talked about it and she is so upset that I agreed that she could speak with him without me present. She said she is worried in speaking with him that she will say the wrong thing and it will upset me - which I know will happen.

What more is needed other than a voice mail?

So I decided to compromise. I asked her to inform me immediately once they have had contact. I reminded her that me informing the OM wife had nothing to do with her. It was my choice and she wasn't even aware I was doing it. She doesn't even know what I shared with the OM wife (I told her I wasn't going to tell her in case she shares it with him). I said that she can speak with him without me present, but I need to know exactly what was said. She agreed.

This sounds really controlling. "I get to do whatever I want, but you have to tell me every single thing you do and when you do it."


I certainly get it that recovering from this is hard. Your W is going through a lot right now, and I think the more you try to be controlling and bullying about this, it will lead to potential issues down the road. Just my 2 cents though.

[Newguy2]

Wow Kaizen - your comments are very critical.

Yes. You are right - my choice to do the 'right thing' was completely my opinion based on my values. What I thought was right. I think the OM's Wife had a right to know. I think she should be given information/evidence that proves her husband was cheating. What she decides to do with it is up to her. I don't want to be mixed up with the OM and his family/relationship - but the OM is hard to forget considering he was sleeping with my wife. I partially hate the OM and wanted to give him some chaos and I also felt guilty when he called me and I refused to give him any information because I know he's get a difficult process to work through.

When I say "I think [my wife] can understand my point of view" regarding contacting the other man... of course it is my opinion. That's why I owned it and said "I think.."

Regarding my wife leaving a voice mail - I think she wants to be supportive to him. I think she wants to soften any anger he may have towards her.

I don't think asking her to contact me immediately once she has contact with him is controlling. She is my wife. She had an affair. I have very little trust in her. I need her to show she can rebuild that trust if we are going to work through this. I thought my 'compromise' was fair considering initially I asked for contact only with myself present. And when I said "I asked..." I asked. I didn't tell her with an ultimatum. I asked if she could do that for me and she agreed. When I asked for my presence during the contact - she cried and told me it would be very difficult because she would be afraid to say the wrong thing - so I gave her a compromise.

Kaizen - I appreciate your feedback and at the same time I think you're making a lot of assumptions and judgments without full clarification. I can understand that I may not be communicating everything clearly (usually I'm flooded with emotions and thoughts when I'm posting) but I don't think I'm controlling or bullying my way through this process.

This is a difficult process. I'm sure I'm making mistakes along the way and at the same time I'm doing the best that I can.

[MoveFrwd]

I think the OM's Wife had a right to know. I think she should be given information/evidence that proves her husband was cheating. What she decides to do with it is up to her. I don't want to be mixed up with the OM and his family/relationship

My point is that you didnt have to get mixed up in it, but you chose to do exactly that. If you believe thats the 'right' thing to do, then so be it. But to me, thats kinda like jumping in the ocean and being upset that you got wet. Im not trying to judge your choice to contact OM's W...thats certainly not a 'bad' choice. But I dont think its as simple as just leaving an anonymous note. You may want to read LiM's thread about disentangling from OM/OMW.

Regarding my wife leaving a voice mail - I think she wants to be supportive to him. I think she wants to soften any anger he may have towards her.

Yeah, I understand that....but I guess my question is 'who cares?' No relationship is going to be particularly cordial when it ends. Is she planning to keep HIM as plan B?

I don't think asking her to contact me immediately once she has contact with him is controlling. She is my wife. She had an affair. I have very little trust in her. I need her to show she can rebuild that trust if we are going to work through this. I thought my 'compromise' was fair considering initially I asked for contact only with myself present. And when I said "I asked..." I asked. I didn't tell her with an ultimatum. I asked if she could do that for me and she agreed. When I asked for my presence during the contact - she cried and told me it would be very difficult because she would be afraid to say the wrong thing - so I gave her a compromise.

I completely agree that transparency is needed if you are going to rebuild.

But to me, saying "I contacted OM's W. It's not about you. It doesnt matter to you. Im not going to tell you anything about it." while at the same time saying "I need to know exactly what was said between you and OM" doesnt sound particularly compromising to me.

This is a difficult process. I'm sure I'm making mistakes along the way and at the same time I'm doing the best that I can.

Yeah, it certainly is. Im sorry if I came across as being overly critical. My intent is not to tear you down, but to dig into the words you wrote to see if theres something underlying which could be addressed. For example, your comments about OMW ^^^ to me sound very "holier than thou". That may not be your intent, but in reading, thats how it came across to me. And to me, putting your W on a lower plane is not going to be effective for healing from this trauma.

[Newguy2]

Kaizen - you are right. I didn't have to get into the mix. And maybe it seems 'holier than thou' but I guess I put myself in her situation and if it was me, I'd rather know. I'd rather someone contact me and tell me. And you're also right - this action doesn't do anything for my relationship with my wife. It certainly didn't bring us closer. It may be harmful to my relationship with my wife - but I think it's something I needed. Maybe I'll reflect back 1-3 months (or maybe hours, see below) from now and think 'what was I thinking' but for now I'm content with my actions.

I requested for information from my wife if he calls her and she agreed. I didn't want to tell her about what I told the OM wife because I didn't want her to lie or to give the information to the OM. I don't exactly know if she would give the information or not... maybe it's selfish or vengeance on my part but I want him to feel like he needs to be honest.

And maybe this has all backfired. I msg'd my wife today asking if she had any contact with OM - she wouldn't tell me. She avoided the question twice by changing the topic. She said she feels like she can't trust me because I might tell the OMW that they had contact again. I told her I wouldn't (which is truthful) but she hasn't responded to the question. I talked with her on the phone at work and she said we would talk tonight... that she didn't want to get into it.

At this point - I feel like if the OM contacted my wife then she is playing games with me. 2 months ago she promised she would tell me anytime he contacted her and yesterday she didn't tell me until I asked (after talking to OMW). She said that I told her to only text me if it's regarding the kids because I need space. Now she's *possibly* using another reason not to tell me. I don't know how I'll respond if she tells me she has had contact because I will feel like all trust is gone.

But then again - maybe she feels I'm playing games too because of contact with OMW.

I think I need to get back on track with the goals of our relationship. Try to gather the information and not emotionally respond and give myself time to process.