Letting the Cards Fall

[Gordie]

Why did you try to make her feel better about it?

[Kyh]

I suppose there are several reasons but this is what pops into my head at the moment. Bear in mind idk what I'm doing and lots of the time try to do what feels right in the moment while trying to be detached and keep expectations at zero.

I'm also on my phone and made a few minutes and started rambling:)

It caught me by surprise and I'm a fixer so it was just my natural response. I know she didn't mean to do this, it's part of her mlc fog.

I'm glad she called me for support and not someone else. This time last year I was enemy number 1. I think it's good she feels she can call me. I'm not trying to manipulate but help guide if/where I can. She's got a lot of. bad advice through her crisis, especially from mlc friend and her old boss so I'm glad she feels she can talk to me, not just this, she vents about her job, people, family.

When she talks to me we're now in a place where I'm able to step back and see where she's at which is often in a fog but sometimes we can laugh or talk (I mostly listen) and sometimes I think she may have a little clarity. Lately, once in awhile I will make an inside joke or bring up a memory and she might laugh or say I forgot about that, or she might not know what I'm talking about and I will have to jog her memory.

I also see she's still obsessed w/making a lot of money and death. She's also working out a lot now. Not that it's necessarily bad, I'm trying to as well but I'm having a hard time making it a steady thing. last week she told me to feel her stomach and was so proud of herself. I complimented her but also let her know she looked fine before. She also told me she was doing x excersice for x. This is something she was teased about on the school bus (she told me about this a lot over the years). I feel bad for that hurt kid under the surface. In hindsight I can see how bad she's been scared from this and another body issue (which is crazy because she's beautiful). I used to tell her she was beautiful and she would always say shut up, you have to tell me that bc you're my husband.

[Kyh]

Basically I'm glad she feels she can call me and isn't going to someone else for support. This is a long way from those awful email/text only days. Although we all have our own version of our story I know what we had was real and we had good times and I'm not delusional. She's looking to me instead of depressed mlc friend, a coworker, or boss who don't really know her or a OM looking for a good time. I think that is a good thing.

[Gordie]

I wasn't criticizing. I was just wondering your thought process. Agree that it is good she came to you and you could listen and support her.

[25yearsmlc]

Basically I'm glad she feels she can call me and isn't going to someone else for support. This is a long way from those awful email/text only days.

I agree that it's progress. Pure and simple. LATER down the road, if you feel it's too hard for you to do, to always be there for her despite her antics, then you can set a boundary to help YOU with detachment.

But imo, there's no argument that Not spewing is better than spewing.

Whether that is enough to reconcile is NOT at issue now.



Although we all have our own version of our story I know what we had was real and we had good times and I'm not delusional.

I know what you mean and I agree. We are not insane and the WAS is not that superb an actor. We also know we may never regain what we had, and that's too bad. But it does not make it all a sham.

She's looking to me instead of depressed mlc friend, a coworker, or boss who don't really know her or a OM looking for a good time. I think that is a good thing.

OF course it is. And any questions about what it means, beyond being an improvement over her spewing, are premature.

You don't need that certainty, do you? This is a marathon, not a sprint.


My only concern for you is that there is a sense you are "waiting" as your DB plan.

Which is not actually a plan. So maybe you can get back to a real GAL plan b/c waiting for her may keep spew away

but imo, it's not going to get her to respect, love and recommit to you. And it stalls you out waiting and wasting time.

She may never return, and you will have wasted time Not GAL

she may return too damaged, and not willing to Piece, and again, I worry you are not getting your life to a place where you are a whole person.

Marriages that are healthy, involve 2 complete individuals, who do not "need" the other to be complete.

Make sense?

[Nee]

Hey 25,

I've always been confused about the waiting vs the standing.. You say waiting isn't what gains respect, love and recommit. If his W left, how would he not be considered "waiting" for her return if he hasn't filed for a divorce? They tell the LBS not to move out, then they say don't wait. How is that possible to understand fully when dealing with an MLC'er?

[25yearsmlc]

Hey 25,

I've always been confused about the waiting vs the standing..


Standing is not waiting. Waiting is just waiting. It's like standing STILL, which is not standing.

Waiting is being stuck, not looking in the mirror to do our own work or push our comfort zones. Sometimes waiting is like hoping for a magic solution or a time machine that can undo a terrible blow, and pretend it never happened.

I think there are LBSers who use the "standing" as an excuse for waiting and for no movement on their end. Just waiting and saying "my WAS is crazy in MLC land and there's nothing I can do...so I'll just do nothing and I'll call it 'standing'".

(I am Not saying anyone here specifically is doing this, btw).

Just that in general I see a some people using their standing belief or their faith to say, in effect, I'm waiting and praying...which imo, is not getting them anywhere.

1) Fact is WE have to heal ourselves, no matter what happens. Time alone does NOT heal all wounds. It lessens the sting, at a very slow rate. Whereas Time + effort on our end, helps us heal.
Otherwise we are spinning, becoming embittered and staying stuck. Which is No growth on our end...and the one thing we should all be getting out of this horrific ordeal, is growth and some peace.

2) the odds are not with us but on the off chance that our WAS's may want to re-enter our lives down the road, AND piece, several things have to occur first. ALL of which necessitate us having improved as individuals (and thus, as partners).

3) And in the more likely scenario that the WAS does Not return, we will be so much farther down the road to healing, and moving forward b/c we will not have been waiting around for someone who is never coming back.

In short, there are only downsides to "waiting". No upsides.

Besides,

4) the WAS's are far more likely to return, if we are whole individuals NOT waiting for someone to decide if we are worthy of their commitment.

Waiting is really rough on our egos, our self esteem, and our mental health. To me, waiting hinders us from finding our own peace, our own self. Our own path.


You say waiting isn't what gains respect, love and recommit.

Waiting alone will not heal us or get us our self respect. It's our job to heal ourselves.

If we are not healed, whole individuals who KNOW we are worthy & deserving of mutual love & respect, I don't think we will get it.


If his W left, how would he not be considered "waiting" for her return if he hasn't filed for a divorce?

Hopefully He's GAL, he's detaching, he's being a great dad,

down the road he MIGHT well file for Divorce. He might have to. There's a lot more to DBing than "waiting" or Filing", imo. Since our family finances were being paid for by h 10 years ago, and b/c I had 2 girls in school, one of whom was close to graduating from high school, I had reason to not file. But I GAL big time, I changed, I healed a lot.

We reconciled. We did NOT piece well, for 2 reasons, which is that I focussed too much on reconciling alone and b/c h's mother got terminal cancer right after we reconciled so we tabled true piecing.

I wish h had explored how he could leave our home for 2 years for a fiasco, OR I had learned that h wasn't remorseful for the damage he did, but for the fiasco and embarrassment he felt. (Hard to know now, But I'm just sharing some regrets and rumination, which I prefer avoiding).

At least that's what I believe.

They tell the LBS not to move out, then they say don't wait. How is that possible to understand fully when dealing with an MLC'er?

First, I won't pretend to "understand fully" what an MLCer does. Ever.

I only address what we can do as LBSers. It's all we can control which is why I sometimes think we are wasting time researching the MLC, except to remind ourselves that we are not alone.

I think the urge to wrap our brains around the WHY?? is natural. God knows, I've done it a lot. I'm trying to remind myself of my mantra, "Don't look back, that's not where you're going." B/c in the end, really, what choice do we have?

Besides, I have spent sooooo much time trying to be in my h's head. And I realize that

a) even if I could somehow become a very accurate mind reader or even if God gave me a crystal ball into my h's head, I believe my h would not know what he felt-

or if he did, his feelings would change the next week. OR be pretty weird and inexplicable. AND

b) I don't have that crystal ball.

AND

c) I'm not sure trying to put a rational spin on irrational behavior is helpful. Or possible.


to be continued....

[25yearsmlc]

Continued


IF IF IF the WAS has a great awakening down the road, it will Not have hurt our cause to have moved on.

Moving on cannot scare us so much b/c it's not saying we are meeting some new person and remarrying next year. We are just not waiting anymore. We are living our lives fully, happily and we are showing our children how to heal from a blow to our hearts and a setback in life.


The WAS would have to catch up to us to be worth even considering a recon, so why on earth "wait" for that? Plus It's actually more likely to happen if they see a healthy whole individual who brings something to the table, a happy person, a desirable person who might just want to be in a healthy R with a healthy person and that might not be the WAS...

Not to mention the really brave hard work that makes up piecing,

which is far far less likely to happen or to work, if we have been "waiting".

Waiting will make piecing harder, and scarier for us b/c it makes us more fearful of being left again,

b/c we will believe we cannot make it without our spouses, and will sort of just proved that to ourselves b/c we did not GAL when we could have.


Second, Not moving out is USUALLY a form of legal advice. It's to protect property, and sometimes it's to avoid a charge of "abandonment" in child custody issues.

Abandonment does not apply in "no fault only" states, or when there are no kids and each person has to decide about what property is at stake and talk to a L.

If you refuse to move out, for whatever reason, that does not mean you are waiting, although I can see why it is harder to show you are "moving on" if you are in the same house.

Hope this^^ helps.

[Kyh]

I wasn't criticizing. I was just wondering your thought process. Agree that it is good she came to you and you could listen and support her.

Hi Gordie, no worries, I didn't think you were criticizing.

Basically I'm glad she feels she can call me and isn't going to someone else for support. This is a long way from those awful email/text only days.

I agree that it's progress. Pure and simple. LATER down the road, if you feel it's too hard for you to do, to always be there for her despite her antics, then you can set a boundary to help YOU with detachment.

But imo, there's no argument that Not spewing is better than spewing.

Whether that is enough to reconcile is NOT at issue now.



Although we all have our own version of our story I know what we had was real and we had good times and I'm not delusional.

I know what you mean and I agree. We are not insane and the WAS is not that superb an actor. We also know we may never regain what we had, and that's too bad. But it does not make it all a sham.

She's looking to me instead of depressed mlc friend, a coworker, or boss who don't really know her or a OM looking for a good time. I think that is a good thing.

OF course it is. And any questions about what it means, beyond being an improvement over her spewing, are premature.

You don't need that certainty, do you? This is a marathon, not a sprint.


My only concern for you is that there is a sense you are "waiting" as your DB plan.

Which is not actually a plan. So maybe you can get back to a real GAL plan b/c waiting for her may keep spew away

but imo, it's not going to get her to respect, love and recommit to you. And it stalls you out waiting and wasting time.

She may never return, and you will have wasted time Not GAL

she may return too damaged, and not willing to Piece, and again, I worry you are not getting your life to a place where you are a whole person.

Marriages that are healthy, involve 2 complete individuals, who do not "need" the other to be complete.

Make sense?

Hi 25, yes that makes sense and you're right about me needing to work on my gal activities. I do things but it's always w/the kids.

[25yearsmlc]

well,

doing things with the kids is not something you're going to regret.

But yeah, you need to GAL without them for a couple reasons.

For one, you need feedback from the "outside world" that you are a good fun guy who deserves laughing and loving and interesting talk.

You won't get all that from your kids, and you have needs as a man and would be lover and adult companion.

Second, you also need to be a whole, healed individual and you need that for you AND for your kids. You are their role model for handling blows to the heart and they will all face their own, someday.

Plus, the healthier you are, the better parent you are for them. They need a rock to lean on and you are their rock.

Rocks need shoring up too.

Finally, and this is not a "reason" for GAL but a result, it tends to make a WAW wonder about being replaced.

Like "whoahhhh. I ASSUMED my LBH was going to pine for me some more - and watch the kids --- and now he -- HE might date OW??

And God forbid, a OW might see my kids??"


I'd write your wife a letter in my head....

"Dear WAW, Hope you're having fun now. It'll be harder to have that same fun down the road b/c your kids will be elsewhere with your LBH, whom they're going to be much closer to...forever.

Also, that new OW your LBH met - turns out, she's really kind to the kids! She's attentive, she spends Time with them, she is interested in their dramas, not her own. Oh and more good news. She's stable. She loves AND likes your LBH.
He is happier now! They all are. (Guess You were right). So thanks for all you did to help us get here.

Signed,
25
'witness to the carnage you began but which Kyh repaired.'