What's up everybody. I stumbled onto this site during a google search and have looked around. I ordered 2 books, DB and DR, and am waiting delivery. I was curious to see if anyone has experienced what I have been going through.
A little back story: My wife and I have been separated for about 6 weeks with my wife wanting a divorce. I had kept a ebay business I started from her. She found out, I owned up. No the first time we have been through something along those lines. I was diagnosed with Bipolar 1 year ago and have had a rough time accepting the diagnosis. I went off my meds a few times during the past year which have led to conflicts with my wife.
Before that we had a relatively good marriage, probably not as good as I thought looking back. We showed love for each other in ways which the other person did not prefer (ie 5 Love languages). She had probably started to check out awhile before I had any clue anything was wrong.
We did go to marriage counseling for 2 months but it honestly felt like it was my own personal therapy session with my wife sitting next to me. I never felt we had a chance to work on things together. My wife shares the same thoughts except blames me for dominating the sessions. I never wanted to be featured but thats how it went.
Anyways, I'm very confused on how our separation has progressed. I feel I have started to work on myself and am starting to notice some changes especially in regards to listening and communication. I feel we are communicating better now than we have in a long time.We talk to each other daily by phone, text, and in person. We have two young children so I am over the house frequently. In fact, the only thing I feel has changed is where I sleep. We are still having sex, although not as frequently. In some instances, it was much more passionate. We have been going out together once per week (which is more frequently than when we were married.) we both agree we still love each other.
I receive a lot of mixed messages. Initially, it drove me nuts. I looked at each encounter separately and would extrapolate it to our future relationship. I've since stopped for my own health. I try not to mention our relationship. It seems to bring her to a place of anger and she always says she wants a divorce. Other times she will speak of the future with me in it, like getting a new house together. Are these just mind games? I do feel she tests me to see if I'll quit or back down. I'm not really sure what to believe or think.
We are still going to counseling. We have had one session since we were separated. My wife mentioned being angry with me because she feels the changes I am making, but said it was too late. I really want to do all I can to keep our family together. I just don't know left from right at this point.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Hey there, sorry to hear that you're going through this. We've all been down a road, altho yours appears more sedated.
You need to get to the bottom of why she "still" wants a divorce. If you were an [censored], i can't see how thats any reason to want to leave a marriage with kids.
Some want-away-wives feel single again and are ready to mingle. You need to know what she's thinking, without getting into an argument.
Just cos things are going right, doesn't mean that they were always wrong.
Marriage counseling tonight. She confirms that she wants either a divorce or separation agreement because of not wanting to be on the line financially if I have another manic episode. Also said that she cannot trust me now to restart any relationship. I reiterated that I do not want a divorce. I want to rebuild our relationship. Marriage counselor really did not help and we all agreed to stop going.
On the car ride home she asked me to give her one good reason she should stay with me and risk getting hurt again. I explained that I believed our marriage and love has the ability to be stronger than ever if we are both willing to put in the hard work. She seemed to agree but thinks I should to be the one that does most of the work.
When we got back to the house, she asked if I wanted to sleep (no sex) with her tonight. I told her I needed to do some thinking and declined. I was hoping tonight would be a turning point towards reconciliation. Now I feel I'm about to begin a long journey. Thanks for listening
Your wife is not opening up. She's not willing to fight. There appears to be a long history for which she blames you and you blame yourself.
This is the longest journey that you will ever be on, but don't worry, it's called LIFE. Everyone is on it :-)
The best thing that you can do, is to let her live her life. DB'ing is about letting the other person be, whilst you deal with yourself. When things were at the worst with my ex-wayward-wife, my friend used to say "why don't you lock the door, i'd never let my wife out if she doesn't come home a respectable time". To which I said, "it is her life, i must live mine, i cannot be her, i cannot make her choices".
It's the hardest thing a man can ever do, to watch the love of his life walk away, to not be able to hear, i love you back. But it makes you a real man, a better man.
oh, and cry, cry as much as you can. There will come a day when there are no tears, that is when you know that you are healed.
and one last thing. most people recommend meds to help deal, i suggest that you take nothing. Take sick from work, lie to your friends if you must, but feel this. feel it all. It makes you feel alive.
Just cos things are going right, doesn't mean that they were always wrong.
Thanks. I appreciate your input. My books were delivered yesterday. Going to dive in and try to figure out what is what. I'll continue to update as things happen.
I'm going to call to set up the separation/divorce mediation today. We have a lot of other stuff going on that I haven't even brought up yet. We were in the process of moving South which has temporarily been put on hold but is something we both still want to do. At this point it looks like it will be separately. Thanks
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
and one last thing. most people recommend meds to help deal, i suggest that you take nothing. Take sick from work, lie to your friends if you must, but feel this. feel it all. It makes you feel alive.
Wow, I just could not let this go without a comment. Just because you are "sad" or upset, hurt, mad, etc., does not mean you need to go on medication. However, all of this could trigger a true depression and not getting treatment for depression is crazy. Just the comment or at least insinuating that anti-depressant meds keep you from feeling things screams a lack of knowledge. That's simply NOT how SSRI or similar meds work. They do not make you happy or keep you from feeling. That's more what booze, heroin and other drugs do. Taking those drugs are a huge problem. Taking anti-depressants, if needed, are not to be avoided by you or anyone here. A good doctor will decide if that is Needed or not. I'd just hate to have you or any other readers here feel that it's wrong to go on meds because DDJ or anyone else suggested that it was. If you have some medical knowledge or background DDJ that supports your comments, I'd love to hear it. Otherwise please be careful with suggesting people forgo proven medical treatments when they are indicated. Going on medication, if indicated, will not keep anyone from feeling but rather correct a chemical imbalance that may prevent them from healing and honestly sometimes living and functioning.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
I will continue to take my medications as prescribed. I have felt the negative consequences of thinking they did not help until I was knee deep in a manic episode. I also see a therapist weekly now. Something I have avoided for a long time. I have seen therapists before and never connected until my most recent one.
Still receiving mixed messages. My wife has called me a few times at work today. Once to see if i wanted to go to a function with her mid June. Another to see if I can leave work early tomorrow to hang out with her. The other time to see if I would reschedule my blood donation time so she can go with me. All this less than 24 hours after pretty much saying she does not want a further relationship. I told her I was not sure on all counts. I'm guessing she is feeling some major guilt or wants the best of both worlds. I think it may be time to detach and i have read some things on the last resort but I don't know if that applies. I should have some free time tonight to read and see whats what.
I'm going to call to set up the separation/divorce mediation today. We have a lot of other stuff going on that I haven't even brought up yet. We were in the process of moving South which has temporarily been put on hold but is something we both still want to do. At this point it looks like it will be separately. Thanks
Hello cdubbs,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Why would you call a mediator if you are not the one wanting to separate/divorce? If she wants to separate, she should do the work to make it happen, not you.
It sounds like your changes have been noticed, just difficult to believe at this point. These changes need to be made for you. They need to be long lasting and sincere. Prove that to yourself and anyone else through your actions, not your words.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
Why would you call a mediator if you are not the one wanting to separate/divorce? If she wants to separate, she should do the work to make it happen, not you.
I agree. I told her I would take care of scheduling the mediation. I didn't want to but I did. Just trying to follow through on things I say I will do. That has been a behavior she has mentioned in the past and I am trying to make positive changes. Thanks
Why would you call a mediator if you are not the one wanting to separate/divorce? If she wants to separate, she should do the work to make it happen, not you.
I agree. I told her I would take care of scheduling the mediation. I didn't want to but I did. Just trying to follow through on things I say I will do. That has been a behavior she has mentioned in the past and I am trying to make positive changes. Thanks
You did what you said you were going to do. Now the ball is in her court regarding the details of scheduling, etc. There is no need to make the process easier for her because that won't win her back.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
I'm looking for ways on rebuilding trust. I know being truthful, open, following through, consistency and time are necessary qualities. Anyone else have any suggestions? Books? What has worked for you in the past?
Struggling with the upcoming weekend. My family took our kids for the weekend. My wife has already said she wants to hang out this weekend despite her wishes to proceed with divorce/legal separation. My inclination is to spend some quality time with her. I'm not sure if I should be pulling away and give her a taste of what life will be like without me. Any thoughts?
In terms of building trust, my 5yr old son broke trust the other day. The following day, he was put in the exact same predicament. And I did not trust him. He assured me that he was trustworthy. I would not believe him. After a while i resigned myself to the fact that I had to trust him, hoping that he had learnt his lesson from the night before. So what i'm saying is that you're only as good as your last innings. Staying trustworthy is all that you can do. Your morals and values are what make you a man or woman. If you can trust yourself, then others will. And you don't need a book for that.
As for pulling away or towards your wife, well, your natural inclination is going to be towards familiarity. And thats ok, but this appears an opportunity (note that i stated opportunity) to get out of your comfort zone. Most people will disagree with me here, but do something that you've always wanted to do, but always put off. The one thing that brings out the inner child in you. This is the real you. Hopefully you can share it with her and she can see you for who you truly are. Be you.
Just cos things are going right, doesn't mean that they were always wrong.
As for pulling away or towards your wife, well, your natural inclination is going to be towards familiarity. And thats ok, but this appears an opportunity (note that i stated opportunity) to get out of your comfort zone. Most people will disagree with me here, but do something that you've always wanted to do, but always put off. The one thing that brings out the inner child in you. This is the real you. Hopefully you can share it with her and she can see you for who you truly are. Be you.
Thanks. I appreciate it. I'll definitely think on that.
We spent the weekend together working on the house. My mom took the kids for a few days. We got along great. Laughing. Intimate. It almost felt like we were back together. I avoided bringing up the relationship. She brought it up numerous times. Mostly about asking "Why did you screw up?" or "I want to hug and kiss you and take you back but I don't want to be hurt again."
I'll continue to work on myself and try to keep my modified distance. I am making my way through Divorce Remedy. I feel time with a consistent effort to grow and become a better person will be the best way to heal our relationship (married or not). I'm going to accept I will be confused for a good bit and acknowledge it for what it is. Thanks again
My W has been calling me more frequently to tell me about her day, asks for advice, we've talking about her toxic relationship to her mother and how she wants to break free from her. I have a feeling that we (myself and my mother-in-law) are being lumped together because we are both biploar. My wife grew up with a lot of crap and her mom is never really been there for her. Sometimes I believe she thinks I'll do the same to her in the future.
I'm thinking of writing a letter to get all my thoughts out about our relationship. I believe this has opened my eyes to where I was lacking in our relationship and has shown me how important my family is. I believe if we both work on the relationship, it will be stronger than it ever was. I think she feels the same way but her fear of being hurt or abandoned outweighs her willingness to reconnect.
We have a mediation date for June 14. I'm confused because she continues to want to plan activities for us and our family after that date (including a mini-vacation w just me and her ). When I have written letters to her in the past and was able to get my thoughts out, they were well received. I know letter writing is frowned on, but I feel that date approaching like a freight train. I'll continue to post and thanks for reading
Popping out of the woodwork here. My marriage fell apart, in part, due to my xh's first full blown manic episode. It was BAD. And by bad I mean horrific. It took him over a year to finally get a diagnosis and quality care team, and almost two years of denial and several episodes (both depressive, manic and mixed - yeehaw)and a fabulous (sarcasm there) relationship with a mentally ill alcoholic woman before he finally hit rock bottom and became in tune to his diagnosis and wanting to get better. He's now on his meds, got rid of the alcoholic and is slowly digging his way out of the "sh*t show" that he created (his words, not mine).
In some ways, I could be your wife. Before his first episode, he would hide money from me, lie about trivial things and really really damaged my trust in him. In fact, my BD came two weeks before we were supposed to close on our forever home. He has told me that he wanted to buy the house, that was his forever, and we were going to live happily every after. And well....then the illness set in. And it came across as I bullied him into everything. He claimed to have lied about everything - to keep me happy. He accused me of being verbally and emotionally abusive and controlling. I spent over a YEAR recovering from the trauma not only from the episode, but the gas lighting that happened. I spent hours in therapy trying to determine if the 10 years I spent with him were all a lie. When he received his diagnosis (Bipolar I), there was a sense of relief...it made sense. I wanted it to be the illness talking (and sometimes it was, other times it wasn't). But then reality kicked in. You see, I have a bipolar father. Bipolar I to be exact. He (my father) fits the stereotype of what you think of when you think severely mentally ill bipolar. I grew up with that. And it scared me because I didn't want to subject myself to the illness again. I didn't really have a choice when I was little, but surely, I had a choice now - right?
I wanted to save my marriage but I didn't want to be subjected to the illness. I wanted to be taken care of but I worried that he would financially put us into a hole we couldn't dig out of. I had a right to be worried - as he had gotten us into debt and hid it from me until he could no longer keep up with the lies. I was so wrapped up in the what ifs that I couldn't see the forest through the trees. It finally took a very VERY good therapist to yank my ass off the ground and encourage me to work on myself to realize that I had to work on my own [censored] - and leave him to work on his. She helped me identify the projection of my father's illness on to my XH and to realize why I was scared and what I could do. But mostly, she helped (and is currently helping) me shine the light on myself and how to survive - with or without my xh.
Very long post trying to make short - we are working on our relationship, even though we are divorced. We know that the old marriage is dead - and that's ok, because while there were some great things about it, there were some pretty dark times that weren't healthy for either one of us. My XH is actively working on building the relationship with himself, and with me. It's REALLY hard. I had to know what I needed from him to make even working towards friendship, something that I would entertain. While he hasn't asked me directly what I needed from him to rebuild trust, I've been very vocally proactive about my boundaries and what I would and would not tolerate. And while he initially chaffed at the start, he has worked towards it and embraced it. What has worked for me is that he has responded to my needs, and not belittled them, even if he didn't agree with them. He's followed through on what he's promised to do and those are HUGE stepping stones for me. While I'm hesitant to trust them, I'm glad that they're there.
My suggestion: I would ask your wife what she she needs to help rebuild the trust between you two. Regardless of if your marriage is saved or not, you'll have to have some sort of relationship with her because of the kids. Listen to what she says and work on it. As for being lumped together with your MIL - you have no control over that. It took along time for me to realize that my father's illness is not my xh's illness. They may have the same diagnosis but its not the same for either one of them, and I had to realize that. Your wife may realize that one day, she may not. She's going to have to do the work to realize what she needs from you, and how she can work with you to achieve that. You both are going to have to be your healthiest selves. You can't make her do the work. You can't make her want to dig deeper. Once you accept that you can only be your best self - and make permanent changes towards being your best self- I think you might have a shot.
I would encourage you to write a letter, but I wouldn't encourage you giving it to her yet. You'll need the help of a GOOD marriage/family therapist to help get you through this - if ya'll decide to go upon that journey. It doesn't sound like she's ready to take that step.....yet.
Do the work on yourself. Be the best individual, husband and father you can be. Stop reading into her actions and work on yourself. She has to be willing to do the same.
Good luck on your journey - it's a hard one, but I can tell you no matter what the outcome - the lessons learned along the way are life changing.
M:32,H 32 T:10, M5 BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15 Served D Papers: 10/15 Divorced: 11/15
Calibri, Thank you so much for sharing your story. There are many similarities between yours and mine, albeit on a different side of the diagnosis.
We were seeing a marriage therapist, not one I really felt comfortable with. The therapist and my wife went to high school together. I always felt the therapist was hesitant around my wife. By the time I honestly was aware and cared to put the hard work in, my wife felt it was a cop out to change therapists. She has mentioned seeking a IC of her own which I encouraged.
I'm going to write the letter, haven't decided if I will give it to her yet.
Thanks again and keep me updated on how you make out. Best of luck
Roller coaster continues. I was laying in bed talking to the wife and I asked her how I could rebuild her trust. BOOM. Backlash. She said "I doubt you could ever rebuild trust with me. It will probably take years and I'll be in another relationship by then. " Not what I wanted to hear. She then proceeded to list everything I have done wrong for the last 5 years. Yesterday she asked me to go to New Orleans. I don't get it. I don't know what to do.
The mediation is less than 2 weeks away. We are getting the house ready to sell and will be moving shortly thereafter (move was planned before the BD). We still plan to get an apartment together for at least 6 months as we acclimate to the area, get child care situated etc.
I think it's time to pull back and work on myself. I have a therapist appt tomorrow morning. He's going to earn his money for an hour.
Still in contact with my wife. She calls and likes to talk and we hung around the house a couple days. Weirdness last night. She wanted me to sleep over. All is good. I use the bathroom with the light out (one of her pet peeves) and she flipped out. I get being upset but she called it a "slap in the face." Then started to say that whenever she considers working on the relationship, I do something to set it back. I assume she is angry because 1. Its a behavior she associates to a rough time in our marriage and 2. I feel that whenever she starts to feel closer to me she looks for any small indication to push back. Is this normal? Any insight? Any help would be appreciated.
Also, I'm seeing an IC more re: to Bipolar. I'm thinking I would like to see a marriage therapist also. My wife no longer wants to go and I never felt comfortable with our old counselor. Any recommendations into what type of therapy. I thought I read SBT therapy around here somewhere. Thanks again
It appears to me that your wife does not feel that she's married to you anymore. For her to say that she could be in another relationship by then, means that she's definitely looking, has probably found someone and is keeping you on a string till it's concrete. I could be wrong, but that's my gut feeling.
My XWW's friend is going through problems with an abusive alcoholic husband, and she said she wanted to save her M 3/10. I say, if you ever get to a point, where you don't want to save your marriage 10/10, then just give up.
She wants to be set free, but you're most likely the ball and chain keeping her back. Painful, indeed.
Just cos things are going right, doesn't mean that they were always wrong.
You can go to a counselor alone but I don't think it makes sense to bring an unwilling partner to counseling. For me it went from "I just want to have it end peacefully" to "I want to do it to help you cope" to "I want to see if it can be saved" and agreeing that "we desperately need outside help".
On the other hand, remember you cannot believe anything they say. That statement might be a test to see if you are serious and committed. I hate this part as it seems like playing games...but perhaps they feel the same about us making changes.
I agree with DDJ - I think she feels that she's out already - and most likely might be waiting for the house to sell before revealing other intentions....should she have any.
With regards to the bathroom/slap in the face comment. I've been there. At one point my XH told me that we were "working on our marriage" and then in the next sentence lied about something v. small and I called him on it. He admitted that he lied. It was a continuation of behavior that I absolutely abhorred and my reaction was a nuclear one - even went so far as the slap in the face comment - like your wife said. Looking back on it now, I know that it came from my insecurities. I felt because there was a continuation of heavily ingrained behavior - that he wouldn't/couldn't change and that *I* wasn't/didn't mean enough to him to change. I poked at it in therapy awhile back and I realized that my childhood abandonment and issues with my father and his own BP illness made me quick to react in an over the top defensive way. I know now that my reactions are mine and he can't be held accountable for them and that genuine changes take time. I've also had to learn (and this is such a struggle for me) that just because someone isn't doing things the way I would, doesn't mean they're not doing the best that they can. I've also learned that expectations are the root of all heartache and have been working to detach my love for him (both then and now) and untie it to my self esteem issues and desire to feel wanted. I say that to you so that you can hopefully start not taking her words to heart. Realize that you can love her and if you are (genuinely) trying your best - know that not turning on the light is not going to keep her from loving you and or reconciling.
I wouldn't advise MC until both parties are ready to commit to the process. At that point you can get a referral to another MC, but imo it's a waste of time and will perhaps push her further down the road of divorce.
I still believe you need to work on yourself and leave your wife to decide if she's going to do the work on herself. While I absolutely do believe you should show her changes that are permanent - I don't believe you should become a doormat. Going on trips to New Orleans, living in an apartment for 6 months after all this. Not a healthy situation. You want to be her husband and her partner - not her cake.
M:32,H 32 T:10, M5 BD/H Move Out: 9/2014 - extreme anger H Mental Illness Diagnosis: 4/15 Served D Papers: 10/15 Divorced: 11/15
couple questions. Your wife is mad at you for having an Ebay business and wants a divorce because of that? I don't understand what the issue is. Is it because you didn't discuss it with her first?
Second, and I am not trying to be funny, is it possible your W is bi-polar as well? You mentioned your MIL has Bi=Polar disorder and her actions being from 1 extreme to the other over an ebay business seems extreme.
Hang in there. Heal yourself and detach. Fix yourself...keep reading DR and GAL. Be kind but don't beg. and know your Ws buttons not to push. Instead push the buttons that bring a positive response. Bringing up trusting you again is obviously a sore topic right now...show her you can be trusted . Do as you say and the trust will come back.
couple questions. Your wife is mad at you for having an Ebay business and wants a divorce because of that? I don't understand what the issue is. Is it because you didn't discuss it with her first?
Second, and I am not trying to be funny, is it possible your W is bi-polar as well? You mentioned your MIL has Bi=Polar disorder and her actions being from 1 extreme to the other over an ebay business seems extreme.
The ebay business I started up was a secret. She did not know anything about it. I jad a previous eccommerce business that I was moving our mortgage and utility payments into (My first diagnosed manic episode) She was hurt over this and that I exposed her to risk since we did our taxes together (I've tried to explain that the business did not exist in 2016, so there was no liability but it falls on deaf ears)
I don't think she is BiP but definitely has some explosive anger issues. I have recommended that she see an IC in the past, and she has thought about it but has not agreed.
I still believe you need to work on yourself and leave your wife to decide if she's going to do the work on herself. While I absolutely do believe you should show her changes that are permanent - I don't believe you should become a doormat. Going on trips to New Orleans, living in an apartment for 6 months after all this. Not a healthy situation. You want to be her husband and her partner - not her cake.
I agree. I think I intellectually know this but it is so hard to detach. I know I need to do it for myself. I think we both need this marriage to die in some sort of way. Today I am going to take action and start to detach. This is going to require some inner strength but I have run myself into the ground over the last 2 months pursuing. Wish me luck
Mediation day tomorrow. We went over mostly everything and have agreed. Split custody for the kids which I wanted more than anything other than keeping our family together. Have started to slowly detach. I'm not going on the trip with her but going to take my kids to the beach for a few days. The house is almost ready to sell. We still plan on living together temporarily until we get settled.
I still have hope for reconciling down the road. I want to use this time to really focus on myself. I've been doing a lot of reading and personal development which ha helped. I'm going back to school for my MBA in the fall. My wife did mention on a few separate occasions about the changes I have made and how she has noticed, so that felt
I haven't had the sky is falling panic in the past week for which I'm grateful. At times I almost feel an inner peace in re: to my situation. Thanks for reading.
I remember my mediation day; it was anticlimactic. There was a lot of sitting around and waiting. Be sure to bring some reading material. Lunch was provided; a local restaurant delivered it and the food was great. (In addition, I had a really cute lawyer so she was a nice distraction.)
Hi cdubbs, it seems like things are moving VERY quickly towards D. You mentioned that you called to make plans for mediation, are you driving this or her? Typically the DB advice on this is DO NOT HELP. Let the WAS do all the work. If they ask you for some info, or to fill out papers or something then do it. But don't push things through yourself. Frequently if you can remove pressure from your WAS then the D they initially tried to rush through will sit on the shelf. If I understand correctly, it's only been 10 weeks since BD? That's not very long.
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I still have hope for reconciling down the road. I want to use this time to really focus on myself. I've been doing a lot of reading and personal development which ha helped. I'm going back to school for my MBA in the fall. My wife did mention on a few separate occasions about the changes I have made and how she has noticed
Awesome! Sounds like you're doing quite well and have the right mindset. Just stick to it!
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I haven't had the sky is falling panic in the past week for which I'm grateful. At times I almost feel an inner peace in re: to my situation.
That's good, but don't be surprised if you backslide from that, it's normal. There will be times you feel great and times you feel horrible. It's all part of the grieving process. Sounds like you are doing really well though!
Yes things have moved rather quickly. I spent a good part of that time with pursuant behaviors and honestly still do but am working on backing off. I know part of her reasoning is she wants a financial separation in case I have another manic episode. My wife is type of person who will make a decision in her head and stick by it, then will readjust afterwards. I've always admired that----until now. I don't think there is any slowing of the train unfortunately. Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
We had the mediation today or something like it. We had pretty much agreed on all the terms and just needed a lawyer put it into a document and file it. Nearly [censored] myself. Over the phone I was quoted a price of $75 and told today it would be $3500. Based on what we needed we got the price to the original price of the mediation. The document will be written up as a separation agreement not a divorce, but the understanding is that this will be the terms of the divorce once we are settled in new town. I'll chalk that as a small victory with a little more time on my side.
Interesting conversation on the car ride. Wife asked if I was excited. I told her not terribly, was she? She replied yes and no. She said she still loves me and wants to remain in a relationship but I didnt treat her seriously when she said I had a last chance in the R. She said she has been working hard the last 2 years on our M and feels I started 2 months ago (All true). I try not to put much credence in her words as she has been all over the map since our separation started.
I dont feel as bad as I thought I might have. I expected to feel like moping around but have kept busy with house projects.
I think it's time to detach like a MF'er and start working on me hardcore. I'll still see her frequently because of the kids but I will try not to initiate any phone calls, texts, or conversations.
I'm still as hopeful as ever and getting a better feel of how I should steer my ship. Thanks to everyone who has replied and to everyone who has posted in other threads. I appreciate all the advice and I am ready to surrender my way. Wish me luck.
Just finished reading... I really have a lifetime struggle with dealing with emotion. I'm a classic bottler and push it all in. I spent the better part of 10 years drinking and drugging myself into a stupor partly because I did not know how to emotionally express myself. My emotional IQ improved after sobriety but I was not prepared for a marriage with children.
I had a very hard time being 100% open with my wife. Some things that bothered me, I let go because that is what I thought men were supposed to do. It is what I saw my dad do, and I followed suit. The bottling of emotions led to resentment building in me and my wife.
There is a great little anecdote in the book. The author tells a story about how when she was 5 years old, she was upset at her parents and decided to run away. She packed a bag and left. She walked down the sidewalk of her street until she reached a major intersection. She was told by her parents that crossing this street was extremely dangerous and she was never to cross without an adult present. Instead, she decided to continue on the sidewalk and walked in a circle for hours. She passed her house frequently while "running away."
Moral of the story: "We all do this in one way or another. We walk around the blocks of our lives over and over, obeying rules that are written, implied, or simply imagined, getting hooked by ways of being and doing that dont serve us. I often say we act like wind up toys, repeatedly bumping into the same walls never realizing there may be an open door to the right or left"
That's my ass to a tee. Reminds me of the mouse anecdote by MWD in DR or DB. i frequently try the same ineffective strategy over and over but I push harder. I always think my problem is effort but it is really strategy.
I'll be rereading this again shortly, so I'll pull out any more good things I think would be applicable.
Last edited by Cristy; 06/29/1705:45 AM. Reason: As stated in our OnLine Community Board Rules, we do not allow recommendations of non-DivorceBusting books / websites / blogs etc
Next on the personal development list ->... I always wanted to delve deeper into mindfulness and meditation. One of my big issues is being present. I am in my head a lot, whether it be going over some to do list, thinking about what needs to be done, thinking of what I already did, etc. Probably Bipolar related because when I went of my meds it really picks up and makes it hard to communicate effectively. I'll be reading the book in conjunction with doing guided meditations.
Goal: I will meditate for at least 15 minutes everyday for 8 weeks.
Expected Outcome: Greater capacity to live in the present, moment to moment and take steps to achieve inner peace.
Relationship Front
Has been fairly tame and cordial since the meeting to get legally separated. I think I have been doing a better job of detaching. If I do something for her, I no longer have been looking for any acknowledgement, good or bad. We still talk multiple times a day, but I have not been initiating unless it is related to the kids or appointments. We still make each other laugh and i am still the person she calls first with any questions or if she has news to share.
I try not to read into anything and continue of my self improvement journey. Its been hard to GAL with the kids and getting the house ready for sale. I'm thinking of going skydiving. I have a huge fear of heights and I'm not really a fan of planes. One of my pillars of improvement has been living with and accepting fear. I do not want to be controlled by fear. What better way than to freefall from a plane in the sky, right?
Busy weekend lined up. Not sure if I'll be able to post. I want to wish a Happy Father's Day to everybody. Hope you have a great one.
Last edited by Cristy; 06/29/1705:47 AM. Reason: As stated in our OnLine Community Board Rules, we do not allow recommendations of non-DivorceBusting books / websites / blogs etc
I'll chalk that as a small victory with a little more time on my side.
Absolutely! Even if it comes to D, a lot of times people think D is the end and it's time to throw in the towel but as a lot of us are fond of saying D is "just a piece of paper". In fact a lot of times the WAS doesn't feel truly "free" until after D. I've read and heard many stories (some were my friends in fact) where reconciliation didn't start until after D, sometimes well after.
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Wife asked if I was excited.
I remember my W telling me early on after BD that she thought BD would make me "happy"! She thought I wanted out of the M as bad as her. Shame on me for making her feel that way. Sounds like maybe there's some of that in your W's head as well.
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She replied yes and no. She said she still loves me and wants to remain in a relationship but I didnt treat her seriously when she said I had a last chance in the R. She said she has been working hard the last 2 years on our M and feels I started 2 months ago (All true). I try not to put much credence in her words as she has been all over the map since our separation started.
It sounds to me like that was a genuine expression of feelings from your W. Just remember, at times like that you LISTEN and VALIDATE. Even if you don't agree. "It sounds like you were frustrated that I didn't treat you seriously, I'm very sorry I made you feel that way." That statement is validating without agreeing. You're acknowledging her feelings. And THAT will make her feel like you've suddenly become Mister Sensitive and Compassionate (well, over time if you do it enough). People here used to say that when they were having convos with their SO they would try to picture AnotherStander on their shoulder whispering in their ear telling them what to say to validate, LOL! Hey, whatever works!
Good job on reading and keeping yourself busy, of the newer sitches I've read since popping back on here YOU are the one that seems best in touch with DBing. Stick with it!
AnotherStander, thanks for the kind words. I think I'll be placing you on my shoulder.
Frustrating day today. My manager asked to speak with me today in her office and when I got there upper level management was there. At that point, I ask whats going on. Manager says my performance has slipped the last couple months (I would agree) and they believe I'm using drugs and alcohol (Big jump). I ask what drew them to this conclusion and they give three very weak reasons. My drug and alcohol history is well known because I have worked here for 10 years. I've been sober for 8. I fought hard to get where I'm at. I felt any other employee would have been pulled aside and maybe spoken to and asked if anything was going on. I got the 0 to 60 treatment.
Long story short. Pulled from work, drug test and breathalyzer, and they would not let me drive home. I will be paid for any time missed once they get the negative tests. I'll be drafting a letter to the CEO and the head of human resources. Luckily, I probably only have a month left working here before I move. Great way to send off someone who put a decade of work in.
Silver lining - I used to dread being asked to pee in a cup. My urine was probably radioactive 10 years ago. Now it's no worries. Plus, my wife was really great when she heard the news. She had my back and was very supportive. It really meant a lot to me. I'm going to enjoy my paid pseudo-vacation. Hopefully, it'll take a bit for the results to come back. Have a good night. Time to work on that meditation.
Silver lining - I used to dread being asked to pee in a cup. My urine was probably radioactive 10 years ago. Now it's no worries. Plus, my wife was really great when she heard the news. She had my back and was very supportive. It really meant a lot to me. I'm going to enjoy my paid pseudo-vacation. Hopefully, it'll take a bit for the results to come back. Have a good night. Time to work on that meditation.
Hey cdubbs, the thing about silver linings is that we don't see that the whole cloud is silver, or is that grey... no its silver if you say its silver. I like your positivity.
I have found that if you can find the good in the bad, then there is no bad. You're going to be single soon, finding yourself, learning to become a man all over again and so many years sober. YOU HAVE A LOT. Appreciate the second chance you've been given, and most importantly, appreciate what you no longer have ;-)
Just cos things are going right, doesn't mean that they were always wrong.
Very happy I stumbled across your thread. I don't have any advice but just a question or two that may be able to help me in my journey.
From a emotional standpoint, we look to be cut from the same cloth. I'm a huge bottler which affected my ability to love. Well love in the traditional sense, of course I love, but I show love by acts of service. Its very hard for me to express emotions and say how I feel. Been like that since a child. I've also had substance abuse issues. I wont get in to to much details bc of the nature of my job. About halfway through my R with my W in 2012-13, I had an accident. For about 9 months I continued with that. It never got extremely bad but I still did it every day and it felt great to escape. Never done it again since the day I got caught by W (GF at time). Have no desire to do it.
I do have a desire to be more transparent with my life and feelings. Anything you did that turned a switch on? Anything small things that led you to better express yourself?
M 1.5 years, her affair was before 1 year T 7 Years
I do have a desire to be more transparent with my life and feelings. Anything you did that turned a switch on? Anything small things that led you to better express yourself?
I think what turned the switch on was the realization of the part I played in the demise of the relationship with my wife. Specifically, a lack of openness. I come from a family of "bottlers". Problems are better swept under the rug, you don't speak up, and you go on doing what you "need to do." I have found that way is not conducive to healthy living. It has hurt my ability to form deep relationships and hurt others who desire to be close to me.
I am not an expert and still am wading in the shallows in terms of emotions and openness. However, I have finally decided to put my feet in the water. I try to feel the emotion just like a wave coming in, letting it wash over me and letting it be pulled back into the sea. I don't run away from the wave to the safety of the sand. I don't try to swim in deep waters I am not yet equipped to handle. Most importantly, I acknowledge the wave is there and it's time with me has a beginning and an end.
That is one thing that has helped, thinking metaphorically related to a scene I can picture or that I understand. Maybe you picture emotion as a cloud passing by over the horizon or a tumbleweed windswept along a dry desert.
Another thing that has helped has been talking to a therapist. I finally found one I can trust and feel comfortable with. He gets paid to listen to me without judgement and provide insight. It has created an environment where I feel safe opening up. That has spilled over into my personal life. I have been more open with my wife with everything except matters of our relationship. She has noticed and she has told me she appreciated me sharing how i felt. I leave the relationship talk for my therapist if I can.
Reading has also helped. I highly recommend the book ... If you are not a reader, buy the audiobook and listen on your commute. Reading personal development books have opened my eyes to make some tweaks in my life and to recognize and stop faulty behavior patterns.
You are not responsible for your emotions, you are responsible for how you decide to act when you feel them.
I hope some of this helped and I'll post if I cross anything that I think may be helpful.
Last edited by Cristy; 06/29/1705:54 AM. Reason: As stated in our OnLine Community Board Rules, we do not allow recommendations of non-DivorceBusting books / websites / blogs etc
All the BS at work has pretty much blown over. I'm still very angry but will be leaving within the next 1-2 months anyway depending on when the house is sold. Still debating on whether to file a complaint or let it go.
As far as the relationship goes, everything continues to be tame. We still see each other daily. Some days closer than others. I still try to remain detached but it is tough at times. I am starting to pick up more on "temperature checking." For example, she sent me a link to a house to where we were supposed to move. It was quite expensive. I texted her that the house was really nice but nothing that either of us could afford. She replied that if we were buying a house together it would be no problem. I responded "Yes, two people that make our salaries that live together would be able to afford a property like that." Not sure if it translated well over text. I thought it seemed cold on reflection but a lot of detaching feels counter intuitive to what I feel is right.
She has asked about joining her on her trip again. I'm kicking the idea of flying out for a brief stay. She'll be in a conference during the day so i can do some solo exploring and we would go out together at night. I would leave the following morning. I do want to go and I would really like to go out with her. I don't know if it's what I should be doing, but it's what I want.
Meditation has been OK. I get severe "monkey mind" but I am going to stick with it. I've decided to put off skydiving until I move to the new city. I figured it'll be a cool way to see the area and I'll be right by the ocean. Better scenery. I'm going to book it and pay ahead of time.
I also am kicking the idea of trying out a flotation tank, anyone ever tried it. What was your experience? Thanks.
Quick question about Validating and 180. I have been attempting to validate especially when my wife brings up the relationships. One of my 180s is to be accountable when I am wrong and accept responsibility. Last night my wife mentioned that she had wished I would have had the attitude I have now for the past two years when she was trying to make our marriage better. I tried to validate saying. I am sorry you fell that way. I imagine it's really frustrating putting hard work in and not seeing the results you would like. It received a lukewarm reception, not the worst thing in the world. If I stayed true to my 180, I would acknowledge that I did not consistently put in the work to make our marriage better (I didn't) and I am fully accountable for where we are (also true).
I don't know if anyone could shed some wisdom. Both are true statements and how I feel. Sometimes, when I validate I feel like I sound like a greeting card and I'm not sure it comes off as being authentic.
The problem is that making apologies and being accountable for your shortcomings just provides more fuel for your wife's fire. There's a time for that, but for now, it time to shrug your shoulders and get out and GAL. Hasta la vista babeee...
Last night my wife mentioned that she had wished I would have had the attitude I have now for the past two years when she was trying to make our marriage better. I tried to validate saying. I am sorry you fell that way. I imagine it's really frustrating putting hard work in and not seeing the results you would like.
Excellent!! That's great validation!
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It received a lukewarm reception, not the worst thing in the world.
Of course it did, because it's a new 180. She's not used to it and won't believe it's genuine at first. Just be careful not to do it for a reaction. Quit gauging her reactions to everything because THAT makes it seem like it's not genuine.
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If I stayed true to my 180, I would acknowledge that I did not consistently put in the work to make our marriage better (I didn't) and I am fully accountable for where we are (also true).
That's not validation though, that's an apology. Have you already apologized to her for the things you did wrong? If so then don't keep apologizing for the same stuff over and over again.
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Sometimes, when I validate I feel like I sound like a greeting card and I'm not sure it comes off as being authentic.
That's because you're not used to it. But it works, and eventually it'll feel more natural to you. Just keep working at it, you're doing great! If you feel like you keep offering the same validation statements all the time, then look for good examples to give you ideas of how to expand your validation vocabulary. Read through this thread for some ideas:
I'm really struggling tonight. Earlier tonight, I found out my best friend, someone who has been close to me since childhood, died suddenly today at 37. He passed out and was unable to be revived. I am in shock. I am numb. I can't believe what I have heard. My friends and family just left and it is quiet now. It feels too much too handle. Eerily familiar to past circumstances. Going to listen to Do You Realize a 100x, work out, do some writing,and hopefully be able to rest. I'll check back tomorrow when I can get my thoughts together better. Just can't believe this [censored].
I'm really struggling tonight. Earlier tonight, I found out my best friend, someone who has been close to me since childhood, died suddenly today at 37. He passed out and was unable to be revived. I am in shock. I am numb. I can't believe what I have heard. My friends and family just left and it is quiet now. It feels too much too handle. Eerily familiar to past circumstances. Going to listen to Do You Realize a 100x, work out, do some writing,and hopefully be able to rest. I'll check back tomorrow when I can get my thoughts together better. Just can't believe this [censored].
Really sorry to hear that! Take as much time as you need, let the grief happen, don't try to bury it!
My friend's death still feels unreal. I only started to reconnect with him more because of the advice to GAL. I put a lot of my friendships on the back burner for my family and MR. I'm grateful I did get some more time with him recently that i would have not have had otherwise.
These have been some tough times, but I will persevere and come out the other end. Thanks to everyone.
My friend's death still feels unreal. I only started to reconnect with him more because of the advice to GAL. I put a lot of my friendships on the back burner for my family and MR. I'm grateful I did get some more time with him recently that i would have not have had otherwise.
These have been some tough times, but I will persevere and come out the other end. Thanks to everyone.
Hello cdubbs,
Please accept my most sincere sympathies. I'm so sorry about the death of your friend.
Cristy
Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
I'm finishing up some last minute projects on the house and hope to have it on the market in about a week. It's sad leaving the home we started as a family and where we began to raise our daughters. However, I'm excited about the new life and opportunity the city we are moving to will provide our daughters. I'm still having a rough time with the death of my friend. I cry a lot in the shower and my commute to and from work. Eerily familiar to a previous life crisis. When I started my recovery from drugs and alcohol, my dad died suddenly. When it happened, I felt it was something I never would recover from and couldn't see the light. Between the likely divorce to my wife, selling our house and moving to another city, the death of my best friend, and false allegations of drug use at work, I feel like I have taken some serious lumps lately. I am certain I will not only survive, but grow stronger from my experience. It is an exercise in psychological stress resistance.
Relationship is OK. We have a separation agreement in place, but my wife has not mentioned progressing to divorce. I have been reading a lot, going for hikes, and spending much more time with the kids. Unfortunately, a lot of my free time is tied up in getting our house ready for sale. I'm looking forward to finally having some more free time top enjoy myself in the coming weeks.
I do not bring our relationship up anymore, my wife frequently does. I really have picked up on a lot of temperature checking. She sends me listings of houses in the city we are moving that neither of us can afford, what type of woman do I see myself with in the future, etc. One question she asked that I answered was interesting. She asked if i would want to get back with her. I answered truthfully, yes and no. I think we both still love each other, we are both still best friends, we have a lot of the same dreams and goals in life, and our family would benefit long term if we could right the ship. i told her certain things would also have to change. She has some unresolved anger that she still needs to work on, she can be overly critical when she gets angry, and attempts to be controlling. I told her I think a lot of our problems are interconnected and play off of each other. We only know one dance and we default to it when trouble arises. Our relationship would only work if we change ourselves and how we interact with each other. She seemed very surprised that I came out and said what I truly felt. She then said, "Well, don't worry, I don't think I want to get back with you anyway." I chuckled inside.
She has increased physical touch with me. Hugging me more often, cuddling, asking me to squeeze her neck. We still ML one to two times a week, which is actually on pace with what it had been in our last year of marriage. I sleep over periodically, sometimes in the MBR, sometimes on the couch. We have gone out to eat a few times without the kids and went to the movies the other night. I try not to initiate any touching (I do at times) but always respond kindly to it. Would it be considered pursuant if i initiate physical touch more?
I would really like her to seek IC but don't think she'll respond well if I suggest it. She holds onto a lot of anger and resentment from childhood and quite frankly our relationship. i think it would really help her to move forward in her life either with or without me. Any ideas on if or how i should approach her re: independent therapy.
