Okay, read your thread and see that W told you she wanted a D. So as of right now, where does the M stand? Has she seen a lawyer or made any other attempts that would look as if she's preparing to leave the M?
You are having sex with her, knowing she had sex with OM. Was she tested for STD? Had your sex life fizzled out before she took the cruise and slept with OM?
I'm mostly asking questions here, not telling you what to do. However, I want to give you a word of caution about her easing back into the MR without making a commitment to do whatever is necessary to have a healthy and strong MR. The board has seen this played out many times in other stories. When a H tries to better himself (which is good) and the WW is friendlier for awhile......but still holds the "I want a divorce" over his head.........it can tie him to that roller coaster. One day he thinks things are better, but then his W doesn't want to give up her sources that help feed her waywardness. She does nothing to earn his trust, continues her disrespect. In order for him to be able to live in the M........he tries to turn a blind eye to her unacceptable behavior and activities. He will repeat things he picks up from the board and try to wear a convincing front by saying he can't control what she does (which is true) and he's doing x,y, & z for himself, yada, yada. He doesn't truly heal, and she remains in her wayward status. The couple eventually falls back into their old slack ways and the W continues to keep the lines hot looking for the next OM.
You can go for the rest of your life living just like things are now. It may get a little better. Of course you cannot cross your W b/c she holds the power in this relationship. Being wayward and her making no effort to change, or even being remorseful........ things may get worse between the two of you. How many affairs (EA, PA, IA) has she had since you M her? You don't seem too phased that she had sex a few times with the guy on the cruise. Is that b/c of the length of time it has been (before last Thanksgiving)?
I think you are trying hard to stop the divorce train. From the view of other LBS, you may look as if you are doing fine. ( I agree you need to seriously GAL. ). IMHO, I think she will hold the divorce sign over your head, and whenever you say a word that doesn't set well for her.......she'll pull out the sign, b/c that's her leverage. She has seen how it's worked to whip you in shape.
You mentioned her childhood, can you tell us what she experienced?
Have to run, but I'll check back later.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Your definitely good. It hurts knowing that you just got a verbal kick in the ass, but you're good. W has not said anything about a BD in 3 weeks. But hasn't committed to MR either. Both of us got tested after I found out. Both came up clean. And our sex life was suffering in 2016. Mostly due to her nonstop periods throughout the year. They would stop for a day or two and pick up again. It was like this up to a few days prior to going on the cruise.
As for previous A. She admitted when I found out about the OM that she kissed a childhood friend back in during a visit to our home city. This guy has a W and apparently asked and she said yes. It happened at a bar she was with her cousin at and the moment the cousin went the bathroom this guy made the request. W said it was insignificant, so she kept it to herself. Then other one was a week after the cruise. Again while visiting our home city, another childhood who had a crush on her who she turned down back in the day. He invited W to his house, which I had no clue about because she had went to her uncles house to visit. But then left to see this guy(she left that out when I asked how her uncles was doing initially). I found messages with a friend of hers about meeting up with this guy. From the message no sex clearly happened. And when I confronted W, she claimed he asked for a kiss. In her words "she didn't say yes, but didn't say no either." So he kissed her and when he tried to do it a second time, she pulled away. Then left back to her uncles house. To be honest, I believe something more may have happened. But without proof, I let it go.
OM who she is she was having the PA and now EA is the elephant in the room. And the trigger for the BD. There was problems in the MR, but his presence is what pushed her. We both saw a lawyer in December, but no moves have been made by either of us. For someone who wants to leave W has made no moves whatsoever to save money or anything for an apartment. And technically hasn't even mentioned getting an apartment in about a month. Right now its if she is waiting to see how things go with me at the moment. DR suggests not bringing up the R, so I just stay quiet, until W brings it up.
But I agree heavily with in regards to her holding the DB over my head. At first, I felt I didn't have a leg to stand on by making her decide. Because at the time, I would have lost that bet. Now my legs are much stronger and she can see that losing the MR is not a good thing. Figured I could carry on this way for the next 2 or 3 months before pushing for W to decide to leave or stay. But I won't tolerate the blatant disrespect of the OM in the picture, even if its just through messaging. Any further advice would be very much appreciated.
Both of us got tested after I found out. Both came up clean. And our sex life was suffering in 2016. Mostly due to her nonstop periods throughout the year. They would stop for a day or two and pick up again. It was like this up to a few days prior to going on the cruise.
Very smart in getting tested, and I'm sure you are relieved at the results.
What are the ages of you and your W? Has her doctor given her an answer for why her periods are nearly nonstop?
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As for previous A. She admitted when I found out about the OM that she kissed a childhood friend back in during a visit to our home city. This guy has a W and apparently asked and she said yes. It happened at a bar she was with her cousin at and the moment the cousin went the bathroom this guy made the request. W said it was insignificant, so she kept it to herself. Then other one was a week after the cruise. Again while visiting our home city, another childhood who had a crush on her who she turned down back in the day. He invited W to his house, which I had no clue about because she had went to her uncles house to visit. But then left to see this guy(she left that out when I asked how her uncles was doing initially). I found messages with a friend of hers about meeting up with this guy. From the message no sex clearly happened. And when I confronted W, she claimed he asked for a kiss. In her words "she didn't say yes, but didn't say no either." So he kissed her and when he tried to do it a second time, she pulled away. Then left back to her uncles house. To be honest, I believe something more may have happened. But without proof, I let it go.
These events happened in a time span fairly close? I realize this has to be extremely painful for you. Has your W always had a flirty personality when around other men? I mean, like trying to get their attention? In the past, did you ever have arguments over her behavior when around other men?
I will pass along what Starsky/Puppy Dog Tails (who had a WW, and saved his M) use to tell LBH's. A WW will usually confess at least one level lower than the true facts. In other words, if she says they only kissed, it probably means it was more than just one little kiss and that's all. We've seen stories where a WW will tell her H that she spent the night with OM in a motel room....but didn't have sex. The best one I've read is where the WW claims she stopped in the middle of having intercourse b/c her guilty conscious bothered her. And of course, the H said he "chose" to believe her. WW's seldom feel a lot of guilt during the affair, b/c they justify their actions. Anyway, you can take all of that for whatever you think it's worth.
I think your W is in serious trouble, but she can turn around and commit to doing whatever is necessary to save her MR. It will take a strong man who will not tolerate any more of her inappropriate behavior with other men. By strong, I mean he has to set clear boundaries and if they are dishonored, he has to be prepared to backup his word. She will, no doubt, test you. I strongly believe in boundaries being necessary when having a wayward wife. This is a component in DBing a W who is wayward. When I see someone in this type of inappropriate behavior (especially one act following another same act) I have to wonder if she's ever had deal with consequences of dishonoring someone's boundaries.
Does your W have a sense of entitlement? Does she act as if she's a little spoiled girl when she doesn't get her way? Do you often feel manipulated, but you go along with her, trying to keep the peace? Some H's just don't think it's worth the fallout, so they suck it up and don't make waves. However, a WW sees him being passive and weak.....b/c he won't stand up for himself, and pretty much allows her to rule his everyday life.
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We both saw a lawyer in December, but no moves have been made by either of us. For someone who wants to leave W has made no moves whatsoever to save money or anything for an apartment. And technically hasn't even mentioned getting an apartment in about a month.
I don't think she wants a divorce......not right now, anyway. If she is conducting inappropriate behavior and bouncing from man to man while getting all the benefits of being married to you......why would she throw it away? She threatened, and now it has rocked on this long without her being required to make changes in her life.....so, I'm thinking she feels pretty secure. And, I think she will continue talking online to men or flirting in person, taking more risks. She gets a "high" from it, and that's what draws her. So, all of this seems to be working for her. It's not working for you, however, and you have to do more than have relationship talks.
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Right now its if she is waiting to see how things go with me at the moment. DR suggests not bringing up the R, so I just stay quiet, until W brings it up.
Setting boundaries about what you will do if she continues to disrespect you, is not having a relationship talk. If you have read my posts to Pew, then you'll see how I explained it to him. I agree it is pointless to have a R talk. Yet, you can't just sit back and do nothing. In other words, you don't need to talk you way out of this, you need to use action.
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Figured I could carry on this way for the next 2 or 3 months before pushing for W to decide to leave or stay.
First of all, why on earth would you do that ^^^^^^to yourself? Secondly, if you apply boundaries and start showing some spunk....you won't be pushing her to decide anything, b/c you make it about YOU, not her.
Your mindset is not at all unusual for a newcomer. However, you are thinking to yourself that "she" will make the right decisions and start working on the MR when she's had enough time. At best, the WW will stay legally M, but she won't put forth effort to make the MR a happy one, nor an intimate one. She has to be motivated by what she sees in you.
She has to see that you are a man, not some wuss she can kick around. What has she seen in you, so far? Is she concerned she is losing you due to her bad behavior? Her waiting around to see what you do.....is not her worrying that you will leave her. The longer you quietly sit around, the less chance she will give it a second thought.
Having said all of that, let me clarify something. I don't want you to jump off into something before you learn what to do and how to go about it. Okay?
It bothers me for a H to take & take his WW's treatment......but instead of him doing what he needs to do, he will give up and see divorce as his only option. It's not, and that's why I would like to help you, if I can. I can't guarantee it will save your M, but neither can anyone else.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Forgot to discuss my W childhood. He parents never married. Father was neglectful, even though they have a good relationship now(they tale pretty much every day). He mother very abusive and was known to sleep around, especially with people's husbands. Seems to be a generational family curse. My W was the exception who managed to stay a virgin until meeting myself. For her sex without love made no sense. Now her views have seemed to completely change, since the cruise. Hearing her talk now is like listening to MIL and I hate it. Because my MIL is trifling.
I am 36 and W is 33. Her period were always sporadic over the years, last year it just got bad. So in November the doctor gave her hormone pill and it finally set everything straight like a day prior to the cruise. I was very excited and looking forward to my W returning. But apparently she made up for lost time with somebody else...smh
As far as the peck she said claimed to have with the first guy in July. I'm sure it was a little more kissing than that. As for the guy she claimed to have just kissed at his home. I believe there was probably some kissing and groping. And she likely stopped things before it went too far, judging from the text to her friend.
Both her parents are flirts and she is one as well. I've never had an issue with it, because its never happened in front of me. And there was never any signs of phone numbers changing hands or anything. Prior to this, she was heavily against this type of behavior. Now she has thrown her morals out the window. Lately she has been acting like an entitled teenager and her best friend caught it as well. Which is why he and his wife have decided to have nothing to do with her. When I read her explanation of the WW, it matched damn near perfectly with W change of behavior.
At the moment, I feel that she likes the attention from text, FB and IG from other men. But is currently messing with no one I believe, because the obsession/fantasy is with OM who lives in VA. There seems to be a loyalty towards him, even though he clearly has no loyalty towards her. Based on when his W finds out, he has disappeared and cut contact twice already. But when I question my W when catching her, I get nothing but defiance.
Boundaries is where I'm stuck. Not sure what the consequences should be at this point. Like I said before she didn't give a damn. Now that she is getting the changes she always wanted. W might actually care about the boundaries I set. But I need example of consequences, because I honestly can't think of any other than putting her out. And I believe that's where PEW and myself are stuck at.
Currently I'm at the part of DR where Carol is changing for her husband who is unwilling to give up OW. So Carol put that on the back burner at the moment. I just assumed that was the place, I'm at currently. What she has seen in me is change. But also when I get fed up, I block what her and other OM are doing. I have contacted OMW twice already. And by doing so the A has stopped. The first time was a month and a half. And the second time they removed each other from FB and IG. Though they probably still contact each other via messenger now probably. So she knows I won't take it, but I have no real options with consequences. Its not as if I'm dealing with my child. Even though W behavior matches that of one.
So I get home from work and my W is in the bedroom with the door closed talking with her sister. She had just got home from her counseling session . And I over hear her talking about how the counselor was asking her what type of man she wanted after the divorce. Now she was joking about how she no longer wanted a short man. Now I'm 5'5" and ironically enough the OM is only 2 inches taller than me. But this woman has the audacity to joke with her 220lb sister. While is she 280lbs at this point has the nerve to talk about me...smh. This is also the same sister who's cousin she was screwing. At this point I'm real tempted to tell SIL about how devious her older sister has been to the both of us. This woman is seriously going to take kindness for weakness. And now has the nerve to ask if I'm helping her cook. The old me would have taken her head off. She lucky that someone lives her big ass enough to fight for her, even when she is doing wrong. Because there are women out there with better attitudes, loyal and in much better shape.
Alright something interesting just happened. About an hour after venting in here went to clean the kitchen and assist with cooking. My W walked up to me and said "I hate to admit it, but you really are changing for the better. Keep it up."
This may not seem like much, but two week's ago, she thought this was some kind of trick. Now she is starting to believe. For a moment I was wondering if I actually getting somewhere with her.
Her comment does sound positive but you never really know the real reason she said it. These WW are very confusing and very intentional with their words/actions. I have been trying to really pay attention to Sandi2 comments and suggestions and over all I have been feeling more confident in what I need to do to try snap her out of this way of life and get myself to not focus so much on my W and her actions and move toward a healthier and stronger me.
I know what you mean. Came home yesterday after talking with my father who isn't happy about the situation. So W may have seen the look on my face that said get rid of her. Especially after overhearing what I heard. But she also saw her counselor who probably inquired about me and caused her to realize that she had absolutely nothing to complain about in regards to me. So what ideas have you come up with for consequences for breaking those boundaries? Still waiting to hear back from Sandi with ideas.
To be honest I am still trying to figure that out. Going to try and work on it with Sandi2 and get her opinion. Regardless of the outcome of my situation, she has been a tremendous help and an emotional light for me through these very dark day. I find comfort in her knowledge and suggestions.
Seems like the only boundary with a consequence I could think of. Is evicting my W for getting in a PA with OM at this point. Not sure what I can do about the messaging at this point. But the last 2 weeks, since I contacted OMW. Which led to W getting kicked to curb again by OM. I see less signs of that happening of contact between W and OM.
