So get this. She called me again to apologize. I explained to her that I agree that our D17 should probably stay in state for the first year until she can handle being on her own. I reaffirmed that we can have a discussion later with her but my standpoint is in the end it's my D17's decision and I will back her unconditionally.
My first step in putting my foot down and not giving in. It's a start and I am actually quite proud of myself. But. I one messes with my child's future. Not even the woman I love.
Not saying that Sandi's advice is bad, especially considering that I may end up taking it myself. But if you do plan on taking her advice. Then your sons life will be turned upside down, which would only be the fault of your W. Tough choices have to be made if want to get respect the way Sandi is suggesting. Either that are stick solely with what your currently doing and hope that things work out without having to threaten to evict her. Perhaps there is another option. But the most extreme option to knock her back track would be getting put out. Who knows the threat alone might be enough for her to stop.
While other board members will try to get you to focus on what you can control, I mainly try to give what I've learned about the WW's mindset. I am not trying to get you divorced! Both of you sound as if by getting respect from your W it automatically means throwing her out of the house and getting a D. Those are the more extreme actions, but it doesn't mean it will come to that in your situation. It depends on how mean, cold, and rebellious your W has become, and what it will take to be respected as a man.....and as her H. I told you to be prepared for S or D, b/c threats do not work with waywards! Ultimatums do not work with waywards! Talking does not work with waywards! The only thing that works is for her seeing action that says you will not put up with bad treatment and that you will dump her a$$ if she doesn't get her sh't together, and fast. Action that tells her you are worth a lot more, and you will not SETTLE for what she's dishing out. A man has to respect himself, before any woman will respect him, especially one who knows him so well. So, let me be clear, effective boundaries can work in saving your MR. You have to be tough enough to enforce them, if they aren't honored. That's what makes it tough love. If that's not for you, then it's not and I can't change you. It has to come from your guts b/c bravery is doing something in spite of your fear.
Maybe some of you men don't see the big deal about the level of respect your W feels. Maybe I should use the word "admire". Women are not wired like men. Hey, we didn't ask God to make the woman's "desire as unto the H", but that's how it is. The catch is.......it is attached to our respect for him as a man and as our husband. When we women feel that kind of admiration for our man...........then we will desire him. Sure, we like a physically attractive man.......but we need to feel that loving desire and be attracted to that intimate part of the man that says who is really is, past the good looks.
The wayward wife has allowed negative feelings to reign in her heart and it has had bad effects on her feelings of love for her H. If her H allows disrespectful behavior to continue on any level, he is being his own worst enemy. A wayward wife is very much like a wayward teenager. And, just as teenagers must learn to respect boundaries, so must the WW. Kids have to learn to show respect, even if they don't like something. Same goes for the WW. If she stays under her H's roof and reaps the benefits of being his W........then she should show him respect.....even if she doesn't like something. If they have a difference of opinion, it should be discussed behind closed doors.......and not acted out in front of others. A man should never tolerate his W showing disrespect in front of his children. The H has to see his WW mentally/emotionally being like the teenager who is rebelling against anything that doesn't suit her current state of mind. When he tries to see his WW as the same girl he M, he will feel defeated at every turn. It's not like this is enjoyable for him, but he has to be tough in order to fight for his M. Yes, this is definitely fighting for the M.
The H who has effective boundaries can be the lighthouse that shines the way back for the W. Just any old way to get her to stay is not acceptable, b/c she won't make the necessary changes. But I can talk more about that later, since this is turning into a lengthy post.
I am going to pass along a big secret about WW's. In their mindset it is one thing for them to give the H the ILYBINILWY speech and cheat on him. But it becomes quite another matter if she thinks she is being the one being dumped by him. (It's that part of the female wayward mind that drives men nuts). When she realizes her behavior has caused her to lose her H.......because he seems to no longer want her as much, and is happily going about life without her.........it is very effective in yanking her attention from the affair to watching her H to see if she can stir his feelings for her again. From what I gather, this seems to be a difficult concept for some married men who put up with their WW's behavior. "But Sandi, what if I made her feel lonely or unloved in the past........wouldn't this just be more of the same behavior"? So what are you saying? Are you justifying her affair and dishonorable treatment? You have to stay real balanced as you learn a lot of new information. It can get confusing when cramming tons of new stuff, especially when emotions and high stakes are involved.
It is not easy for a good hearted man to understand the craziness about wayward women, b/c it would only be logical if he was showing her his hard efforts to be there with her more, and taking more active role with the kids, and working around the house to do the things she's complained about.......right? No, b/c here's part of the problem. The H and his WW are currently living in different time spans, and what once was a critical issue for her has taken a back burner at the present time. Oh she may still use those old complaints to throw at him now & again, however, they are used as her way of justifying her behavior. If he fixes one of her complaints, she'll find a new one, b/c she wants to continue blaming him for past issues and those that currently exist. She has become like a different person now, and what would have made a difference in her feelings back before her heart turned wayward.......will not change how she feels now. We have witnessed many LBH's trying to be (what they saw) as the perfect H, and yet, when the A ended his WW would still want out of the M. B/c it wasn't so much about him trying to please her as it was about her current feelings. And, b/c he did not want to "rock the boat", he still lost his M. Yes, he should make positive changes for himself, and for his kids. However, she has to work on her issues of resentment, entitlement, etc., before the MR will completely be happy.
Perhaps her H wasn't the greatest, and maybe a lot of things she tried to tell him fell on deaf ears........or fizzled out. Over time her resentment and feelings of disrespect grew and grew until it chocked the loving feelings out of her heart. It can leave a void and cause a woman to wonder if she'll ever experience feeling in love again, b/c she no longer feels it for her H. For her, that's like being trapped in a loveless MR without hope of an escape. Even if she had lived by the strictest religious standards or the highest moral code, when this emptiness is carried for a long time...... she can become vulnerable and her unmet needs seem to drown out the voice of religion, morality, duty, vows, and reasoning.
It may be years down the road, or sooner, when just the right thing happens at the right time when a man gives her a look and/or a smile, or shares something with her......and it makes her feel good. That is normal. In a MR where her emotional needs are met, she would silently appreciate the ego shot...........as she walked away from him. But with a woman who is not happy in her MR............she can get lost in the way her feelings respond to another man's attention. If she doesn't rely upon her sense of what's right & wrong, her emotions become the dictator of her soul. And here ^^^^^*^^^^^^^^^^^ is the kicker. B/c of the growing negative feelings for her H, she sees herself as justified for her decisions........and it overrides her guilty conscious. Unhappiness, bitterness, loneliness, anger.........it all wells up and turns into rebellion. Her self-justification and selfishness feeds her sense of entitlement........and you have a full blown WW who is capable of doing things you would have NEVER believed your W would ever do. This is not the girl you married!
Like I said previously, the respect factor and describing the WW mindset is written over several threads. The first one is on the post Cadet sent you with all those links for the LBS. Those links are like gold, so please don't pass over them as if they have nothing to do with your situation.
You are not trying to just "making a point about respect". It has to become a way of life in any relationship that is valued.........especially marriage.
Quote:
I am going to calmly (but firmly) tell her that I am not going to live in this type of open M and constantly be disrespected. While I value that she is free to make her own choices I am too free to make mine. I will no longer be a part of this situation and that I wish her the best in life but the time has come to move on for me and to focus on me and what I need to do to become whole again.
I fixed it for you. Don't say any of that stuff I marked out. This post is too long, so I'll try to explain another time.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Thank you again for your words of wisdom. I realize how precious they are and I am getting the courage to do what I should have done immediately. Your right I have become the man I never was meant to be. I will have the talk with her about not living in this type of open M. I am going to calmly let her know that while she is free to make her choices I am not going to wait around for her to decide what is important to her and live in an open M like this any longer.
Pardon my language but thank you for finding my ba** s. When I look at what I have been doing these past few weeks, i realize is that all I have been playing was the sucker. Thank you for that 2x4 moment I needed it.
If we are to continue living under the same roof, what other boundaries do I need to set?
It seems like every time I bring up the OM who she claims is just a friend now...smh. We get into an argument, which sets back the work I have put in. So I made it a point to not even bring the guy up, until I can get her to actually want this MR again. My biggest issue is how to you make a demand from WW who has demanded a BD already. At this point all contact is through messenger. So even though an EA can be more damaging than a PA. I figured I would have some advantage over the OM with all these changes.
So last night me, my W and my D17 were supposed to have our college talk. When my D17 got home from work, I told her to have dinner and when she was done we would like to speak with her about her decision.
My D17 finished eating and came into the living room and sat down between where me and my W were sitting. My wife asked if she has made a decision on where she will be attending college and my D17 says yes, she will be going to school in Florida. My wife proceeds to say ok and then shuts down. I continue the conversation to let her know that for the first year she can not bring her car down and she agrees. I ask my W if there is anything else she would like to add and she says no and then gets up and goes to the bedroom.
I tell my D17 that everything will be alright and that now I can start to look at financing her education. She then goes to take a shower. At this point I walk into the the bedroom and talk to my W. I say this was our chance to express our concerns and have an adult conversation with our D17. She says there is nothing else to talk about. I proceed to say we need to trust her and her decision and not ruin this experience for her. She dismisses me again. I calmly said I am not done yet and proceeded to tell her that when it comes to our D17, this behavior is unacceptable and that we need to work together with her and then I leave the room.
I think if my W reaches out to me today I am going to let her know that I can not live in this type of open marriage anymore. Is this the wrong time to bring this up with everything else going on or should I just do it since I have confidence in myself to follow through? Also, how do I proceed with this conversation if she chooses to continue to talk? I do not want to come off as controlling and say the wrong things but I do want her to know where my boundary is.
Any advice on this would be appreciated. Thank you again Sandi2 for all your help. You really have been my voice of reason.
Is this the wrong time to bring this up with everything else going on or should I just do it since I have confidence in myself to follow through? Also, how do I proceed with this conversation if she chooses to continue to talk?
PEW1974,
A truly confident man wouldn't have to ask. The fist thing that comes to mind is Rhett Butler's line, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a d@mn."
It seems like every time I bring up the OM who she claims is just a friend now...smh. We get into an argument, which sets back the work I have put in. So I made it a point to not even bring the guy up, until I can get her to actually want this MR again. My biggest issue is how to you make a demand from WW who has demanded a BD already. At this point all contact is through messenger. So even though an EA can be more damaging than a PA. I figured I would have some advantage over the OM with all these changes.
PEW1974, sorry about the hijack...
Tread,
I was in a similar situation. My guess is that you're a much, much better man than the OM, but unfortunately, that doesn't seem to matter. Your wife is living in a different reality and your logic doesn't compute in her world. She's got two guys that want her; one provides the means to live in the real world and the other one provides her fantasy world. Why would she leave that? That's why you have to move forward with your life.
I just realized for some reason chunk of my last story/post was left out. I hate my phone and really need to preview my post for spelling and typing mistakes. Mind you this was before reading your last post.
So after I left the room wife came back out and continued to try and push my buttons so I calmly told her that I have been trying to show her respect and compassion regardless of what we have been going through these past 7 weeks and she replied with "what me going out with friends" and I said no with you going out to see another guy and having an ongoing affair. I said it is apparent you do not respect me and haven't for some time and I can no longer tolerate it. Then I proceeded to walk away again and with that being said she quietly went back to the bedroom.
My question to you or anyone else who wants to chime in is, today she has not contacted my as she usually has been. Which I figured would be the case. At this point I am not going to initiate any contact with her. What do you think is going on in her head if anything and what should my next step be? I saw from your post what you though I should say and I wish I had seen that before. That is why if she initiates contact with me today I was going to follow up with exactly what you told me to state.
Right now she's in contact with OM trying to figure out what went wrong. And whether you're bluffing or really know something. Probably trying to figure out what your going to do next as well. If your W is like mine who is complete amateur at A, she's going to make a series of other mistakes trying to further cover her tracks. But the OM in my situation is what I call a 'Serial Cheater' was giving my W all kinds of advice due to his vast experience. So best believe you W is going to OM for guidance in this matter or at least a friend who knows about the A.
