Wife moved to parents on opposite coast

[bigybiz]

Cali08:

I've been catching up on your thread and there is lots of good advice here.

I too struggle with the variance between what MWD says in her books and videos, advice from the coaches vs what the common thinking on the forum.

The idea of being elusive and not pursuing is uniform to both. Every time and WS see's a text/email etc from us - they think "What does He/She want now".

For me the hardest part of the whole experience has been loneliness. I've read many threads where the LBS texts,emails,calls just to fight the loneliness it seems and hope that they can keep connected to the WAS.

Once you slow down/stop the texting - you will find that when you do talk to W - your words will be listened to more. Without the empty "Hi" "What's Up", silly questions i.e. where is the ... It's likely that your S will reply thoughtfully and sincerely.

Your time is valuable - so preserve it and only talk to her when it's absolutely necessary. It will pay off.

[Cali08]

I feel that it always takes two to make things better and if we are to truly heal and make it through this we have to meet in the middle. It's about work, compromise and making the choice to love each other each and everyday is it not?

This is why I recommend that you read the book. NO. It does not take two to make it better right now. It takes YOU. Look, for one reason or another, she is not here talking to us about saving this marriage. You are. This reads as if you are saying that you arent willing to do anything unless you know there is going to be a good outcome. Or that she is going to give equal effort. Unfortunately, that isnt how it works. After your growth, then she may decide that she is interested again, and that is when she will need to do her own mirror work. But right now, she isnt interested.

I am going to get lost somewhere is Alaska this weekend. Im looking up remote hikes now and Im going to take the book with me so I have something to read where ever I find some piece and quite to tap into.

She came up with the goals for us and she was still thinking of giving it another chance. The goals we came up with was what was making her unhappy or needed to be happy and I was totally fine with doing those things she was asking of me.

Ive been exactly where you were. I got told that I wasnt doing X, Y, and Z so I did them with 100% gusto. My ex needed time to practice her craft? I was super-parent and and took the kids out of the house for hours so that it was available. I need to take more interest in certain things? I read up on it and asked many questions. I did those X, Y, Z all day, every day. When I was left, I wondered why, even though I was doing all of the things that were asked of me!

The problem is that by the time we had the conversation, it didnt matter anymore. As 25 writes, it's small consistent change over long periods of time. I was making large changes in a short amount of time, and thats not sustainable. I imagine that your W felt the same way that my ex did - "I asked you to do these things, but now youre just doing them because I asked you to. After a week, a month, a year...youre just going to go back to normal."

The problem I have with this mentality is that we are so newly married and it wasn't all that long of a timeline where she had to deal with such issues. Most of you have had so much more involved which spans ten times the amount of time it took for my wife to do this. Im not trying to justify anything, but it's the feeling I have about it. I feel that I was never really given that much of a chance to change things. This is also considering I was changing before she left.

The fact of the matter is we worked the same job on the same team for the first couple years we knew each other, so these problems didn't exist. Then she was home for about a year and a half and then came back to the same job on my team for almost another year. These drastic decision seemed to come on really quick. It was literally after she went home for her birthday without me. She had a party with a lot of her friends, which leads me to believe there was a ton of other influence on her decision to leave and it wasn't totally her doing. Of course she ultimately is the one to follow through with it with the help of her parents supporting completely. I think that is why she had so much trouble with doing it in the first place, but I feel she had her little cheerleaders on the side rooting her on. Anyway I am not really going anywhere with this, but I wanted to let you know where my line of thinking is coming from.


Im not saying thats for sure the case with you, but reading your words, I suspect it is - you say you are making these changes for you, but if thats true, then why does this matter: "The hard part is that she will never see any changes I am making and it won't matter to her either, because if it did matter then don't you think it would make sense to try and find out in one way or another that those changes are taking place?"

I am making the changes she asked for, but the major one of being home isn't going to happen over night. I first have to find a job that is going to pay me enough to do this without my wifes help on the bills. This complicates thing a lot more considering I now have to look for a job the is giving me the same pay scale I make now, which I have yet to find a single one. The other changes she has asked for like date night every week, sharing whats on my mind, communicating more, doing the dishes, taking care of the garden, words of affirmations and quality time are kind of a bust without her around.

I hope that finally makes sense on my seemingly resistance to change. I mean I already starting taking care of the garden and I have been doing the dishes and trying to save money where I can, but again without her around to see then it's only for my benefit, which is all fine and dandy, but it's just kidding myself to say that it doesn't matter in terms of my wife. What are we all here for and doing the 180's for if its not for the benefit of both spouses?

The point is that you need to clean up your side of the street before she has any reason to really consider a relationship again. The thing is, you need to do it without the expectation that she comes back. You keep harping on the fact that she is so far away that she cant see your changes, so you need to keep contacting her. I say thats not the point. Imagine sitting and watching your grass grow - you cant really see the change happening. But what if you go on vacation for 3 months? It will sure look different when you get back!

Like I said above I am making the only changes that I can. I absolutely need her involvement to make the other changes, unless that mean going on a date night with someone else. I know that is not what you meant and I wasn't trying to be an ass, but it's the point Im trying to make. A little about my personality, which I am aware of is that I am usually quite persuasive in most arguments, not that we are arguing, so when someone doesn't agree with me I naturally take a step to the left or right and try to explain it in away the other person will get it because it not often that people don't agree with me.

I know this of myself and I am literally reminding myself of that now because I see it happening in these posts. It's a hard habit to get away from, especially when it isn't often that I run into problems with it. At least not when I come face to face with or told I am told about it. I listen and consider everything being said, but if something doesn't site right with me or I am not quite catching it then I try to explain my situation over again with new light to see if it still has the same response. Probably not the best way to do things, but it does help me get through things at times because on certain subjects I can certainly be hard headed and stubborn.

Again thanks for all the input and please keep it coming because I truly am learning from all of it. I just don't want anybody to get discouraged with me and not tell me things because of it. I am working on listening more and I need to ask more question rather then explain my situation over in a slightly different light to get the answers that makes sense to me I suppose.

[Cali08]

Look, she is contacting you. You don't need to pursue her. The tic conversation wasn't earth shattering, but I like that you used emojis, somewhat cheap way of injecting interest to what you are saying (but don't overdo it). I like that you didn't let it drag on with a stupid conversation forever. Since she has had some health struggles, this might have been a good time to say you hope she is feeling well and healthy or something. You can use these contacts she makes to you to show some interest in her. Just don't be overboard.

OK, well at least I seem to have done something right even if it was just kind of! Haha!! I am trying to be interested in her while being interesting, but it is such a different ball game now then it was before, so doing what I used to do isn't the right thing to do. I feel at times though after she reached out to me that it's now my turn to reach out to her to be fair in this. After all it I who has to do all the work and making changes according to DBing. In my gut that little text message exchange actually had more feeling behind it then any of our last text messages have and it was about nothing. It is how we used to text all the time though. My wife would share everything no matter how silly or small it was and that what it felt like. Like she opened back up to me a little at that time and then me being so confused as to exactly what I should or shouldn't be doing I didn't take the opening. That is how that feels a little bit to me, but I am glad I did what I did. I still haven't heard from her as of now and I highly doubt I will for a long time. That is my gut feeling and I am still unsure if it's what is right.

In your response to Kaizen, I'm still seeing the same justification behavior. You have got to stop that. The past is over, stop remaining stuck there. She has legitimate gripes with you and you know that and everyone here knows that. Show those small, consistent changes and stop expecting this to be a quick process and getting frustrated when it isn't. You are getting far more contact from her than most of us get from ours.

[Cali08]

Cali08:

I've been catching up on your thread and there is lots of good advice here.

I too struggle with the variance between what MWD says in her books and videos, advice from the coaches vs what the common thinking on the forum.

The idea of being elusive and not pursuing is uniform to both. Every time and WS see's a text/email etc from us - they think "What does He/She want now".

For me the hardest part of the whole experience has been loneliness. I've read many threads where the LBS texts,emails,calls just to fight the loneliness it seems and hope that they can keep connected to the WAS.

Once you slow down/stop the texting - you will find that when you do talk to W - your words will be listened to more. Without the empty "Hi" "What's Up", silly questions i.e. where is the ... It's likely that your S will reply thoughtfully and sincerely.

Your time is valuable - so preserve it and only talk to her when it's absolutely necessary. It will pay off.

I sure hope you are right. One of my issues I think is that I can to easily walk away from this and I don't want to. I want to do the right thing for myself and my wife, which I believe is to work things out and make a much stronger marriage out of this. My wife also knows my personality and how I would be able to walk away and that is not the message I am wanting to send to her, but detaching feels like that is exactly what I am sending, so that is why it is a struggle. This weekend I will be out adventuring around Alaska as much as possible and I will be plenty busy site seeing so I plan on using that to my advantage.

I like your point of our conversations being more sincere after a long period of having none. I know she spends that majority of her time on text and phone calls talking to a lot of other people almost none stop, so missing my conversation is way down on her list. Knowing this also makes me want to stop communicating with her because I don't want to be the last one she thinks about talking to, so I take the choice away by not talking to her at all. Time will tell if she gives a damn or not, she sure doesn't seem to. My family tries to keep in contact with her too, but are all starting to really dislike the effort they have to put into to because she treats them pretty much the same. Cold hearted and vague with everything and not engaging at all. She has yet to initiate one text to anyone she left behind on the West Coast. My family are changing their tune about things now too and telling me I should probably move on because they feel she wants nothing to do with any of us and she is going back to her old life.

[Lana_71]

Hello Cali
I have some points I hope you can take them with an open heart. Sometimes while reading your stitch I felt you are dealing with her the same way you are dealing with your work. You are demanding an answer quite and clear and need people to respect their word and commitments and choices. Although this might work in business it can't make a marriage. I wonder why do you want her back . What is good in her that you appreciate. Have you told her what you see in her . What does she add to your life. I wonder if you have a list of everything good in her rather that what is bad. I read she has back problems, depression, adhd, corrupting friends, enabling family . Not working made me feel like she is a free loader. Don't know if she felt that too. But if she did I guess it would be better to go live with my family. I don't understand why you still expect her to pay for the cable which you are using While she has no job and you do. How do you think she feels about that? I see a lot of concentration on the financials from your side that is paralyzingly her from doing anything for herself like traveling or counselling . I am not saying that financials are not important but for the time being I think you should not bring them up. If she wants to ask or pay let her otherwise you do it.
From what I see I don't think she want a D yet and I think she is waiting for something from you. You need to find a formula of being detached but loving . Detached doesnot mean you ignore her, or stop talking to her. It means you do what is right and be a loving person even when she pushes your buttons and ignore ur msg without pursuing . STOP expecting anything from her and for all the old days be a friend.
She is currently confused . She left her family, town , friends, opportunities and moved for you. A choice she did and now she is questioning her identity . Trying to find out what she likes and what she doesnot , trying to grow up. I think she is wise not to have children now until she figures what she wants. My opinion be a friend that is what she need . She will decide when to come back when she is ready.
Look this is a long road it will not be solved in a month or two. You need to figure out are you up to the challenge or you want to quit now. It will not be easy and even when she comes back the problem is not solved and can happen again there are no garantees ... your call to decide "is she worth it in your mind?"

[25yearsmlc]

Cali

I found a letter from a WAW to someone here. In HER (the WAW's) situation the LBH had done a lot of work on himself and really felt he had become the best H, he could.

So he could not understand why his WAW didn't simply ditch anyone else and return to him right away...

Here is what she wrote to a similar guy here, about her viewpoint. See if any of it resonates with you...


Dear D---

When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than.

One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H.

Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me, would lessen him so much in my eyes. So, I can see where your W is coming from.

When you've been mistreated or neglected to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your S - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.

Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated, does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated & neglected for such a stretch of time.

And I promise you that while you have "recommitted" and worked on yourself for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.

Because when you build up hope again and again and again as your h promises things will improve or he'll change,

and your H crushes it again and again and again, then you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope.

You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants -never enough to get your needs met, and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.

And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away - and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to "win".

Are you sure that you don't just want to "win"?

Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her - and really have recommitted to her, and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell.

[25yearsmlc]

PS

you say in one sentence that you can walk away from this" fine, you just don't "want to". AND That your w knows you'd be able to walk away, and though that is not the message you "want" to send her, it's the message she has gotten for a long time, don't you think?

Later you say "she sure acts like she doesn't give a damn."

I wonder if you see any double standards. From where I sit, your w has not felt like a priority to you and she still doesn't.

All the words you utter make no difference b/c the actions are the same. You have a choice to make and you continue to defend the choice you know won't get her back.

What is it that you want to work on, in you?"

[Cali08]

Hello Cali
I have some points I hope you can take them with an open heart. Sometimes while reading your stitch I felt you are dealing with her the same way you are dealing with your work. You are demanding an answer quite and clear and need people to respect their word and commitments and choices. Although this might work in business it can't make a marriage. I wonder why do you want her back . What is good in her that you appreciate. Have you told her what you see in her . What does she add to your life. I wonder if you have a list of everything good in her rather that what is bad. I read she has back problems, depression, adhd, corrupting friends, enabling family . Not working made me feel like she is a free loader. Don't know if she felt that too. But if she did I guess it would be better to go live with my family. I don't understand why you still expect her to pay for the cable which you are using While she has no job and you do. How do you think she feels about that? I see a lot of concentration on the financials from your side that is paralyzingly her from doing anything for herself like traveling or counselling . I am not saying that financials are not important but for the time being I think you should not bring them up. If she wants to ask or pay let her otherwise you do it.
From what I see I don't think she want a D yet and I think she is waiting for something from you. You need to find a formula of being detached but loving . Detached doesnot mean you ignore her, or stop talking to her. It means you do what is right and be a loving person even when she pushes your buttons and ignore ur msg without pursuing . STOP expecting anything from her and for all the old days be a friend.
She is currently confused . She left her family, town , friends, opportunities and moved for you. A choice she did and now she is questioning her identity . Trying to find out what she likes and what she doesnot , trying to grow up. I think she is wise not to have children now until she figures what she wants. My opinion be a friend that is what she need . She will decide when to come back when she is ready.
Look this is a long road it will not be solved in a month or two. You need to figure out are you up to the challenge or you want to quit now. It will not be easy and even when she comes back the problem is not solved and can happen again there are no garantees ... your call to decide "is she worth it in your mind?"

Lana,

To be clear she brings up money issues more then I do. I never asked her to pay for anything until she recently got a job where she made a lot more money. When she was leaving and quitting this good paying job I asked her about her bills, like her car, insurance and the bills she was helping out with which was only the phone bill and the cable bill. She told me out right not to worry about them and all the bills she has will continue to be paid, which means her parents will take care of everything. I believed her until I noticed that both bills weren't paid on time. She ended up paying the phone bill, but that is no surprise because she needs that. I simply thought she would hold up what she told me was going to happen, but she didn't. If I knew she wasn't going to pay it then she should have simple told me instead of letting it go until I have to pay two months now. I find that what she did was wrong and at least she could have told me before hand and I could have at least frozen the account while Im gone.

Believe me her parents will pay for anything she wants to do such as traveling or counseling there was never a money issue for her. I have always had to cover down for everything for the most part and asking her to give me a little bit of help by paying two small bills when she could afford it was the least she could do. Im not sure why you find this bad on my part? She constantly bought things online from Amazon and so forth, little things here and there and I never said anything about it. I on the other hand could never do any of that because I was so strapped with paying all the bills.

My wife tried very hard to get a job so she wasn't slacking in that department at all. I know how hard it was on her, but I was always encouraging to her. She seemed to not like it when I talked to her about finances and needing help. I never approached her in a mean way or anything close to that. I simply asked her if she would be able to help a little bit because as a team of two I could use it. This should be well within my rights as her husband to do without it becoming some kind of issue. She finally gets a good paying job and then she quits it and leaves. I guess Im wrong for thinking it was good for her to have this job even though it wasn't in her field of work.

I think my wife has much deeper issue with herself long before we ever met. She has had identity issues and had asked me to help her with them, but she is the only one who can be happy with herself. I think I am looked at as the bad guy here, but my wife has struggled with a lot of things before we ever met and she seemed to find some happiness with us for awhile. Have ADHD as an adult had a lot of the symptoms that she is showing and I believe has a lot to do with her depression. I am really starting to think that she only believed that our marriage was the cause of her depression. Im not saying that it could have added to it, but I think she needs a lot of help and she will continue to have problems until she gets it. I was willing to help her and I thought I was helping her with some of the issues she had, but she choose to run away from it rather then face it with me. She truly needs to find happiness in herself before she will ever find happiness with anyone else.

I do love my wife, but I don't agree with how she choose to deal with our issues. I don't believe that it was a healthy decision at all. I really don't know what she wants. If she wants the divorce why not just say it? It utterly confuses the hell out of me. She talks about how she is a very direct person and a strong woman, but this is the opposite I feel. I would believe being that kind of person you would at least give some kind of answer, rather it's divorce, separation or just needing to work things out for herself. I get absolutely nothing from her. I am still struggling with if I should contact her still. Everyone here is telling me to let her contact me, well it's been since Wednesday since she last text me and that text seemed a little more open hearted to me, but as per what people are saying she treat it a certain way and I did.

You say detach doesn't mean to ignore her and Im told to stop texting her and let her text me instead, which to me feels exactly like ignoring her. So tell me how would you go about being lovenly detached while not ignoring her if she stops contacting me. One thing for sure is that I am not pursuing her and I have stopped expecting anything from her. I am detaching, which seems more like ignoring since there is no contact between each other and all if I wait for her to text me. I know you all say this is a long road, but she is still my wife and I feel I deserve some kind of answer. In my book it's only fair to both of us. Let me go so I can get on with my life and start anew. If I was such a terrible husband and I did so many things wrong then what is the hold up on her part? From my perspective if I felt I had to run away and abandon a marriage, quit my brand new good paying job, move back in with my parents on the opposite coast then I would think the answer is clear. I really really really just do get it. If someone could explain that to me then I may feel better about the whole thing.

[Cali08]

PS

you say in one sentence that you can walk away from this" fine, you just don't "want to". AND That your w knows you'd be able to walk away, and though that is not the message you "want" to send her, it's the message she has gotten for a long time, don't you think?

I really don't know. We haven't been married all that long to begin with. Her depression definitely took it's toll on me, but I really didn't realize how much until now. I can only tell you that from my perspective I had stopped being as sexually active with her for less then a year. I certainly didn't stop cold turkey, but with me being gone I would say we were active 2 times a month on average. I know this was an issue for her and feeling close to me as she tells me now anyway.

She has had depression issue's for a long time and I think her ADHD has a lot to do with that. She has never been happy with anything for to long. Always moving from thing to thing, getting really into one thing and then not liking it a

Later you say "she sure acts like she doesn't give a damn."

I wonder if you see any double standards. From where I sit, your w has not felt like a priority to you and she still doesn't.

I must be really giving a horrible view of myself and our marriage. My wife has always been a priority to me rather anyone believes that or not. I think there is a bit of a double standard on both of our parts and I still believe it takes two to screw things up as well as fix things. Yes I have been readin the DV book today and I know I certainly read that in there.

All the words you utter make no difference b/c the actions are the same. You have a choice to make and you continue to defend the choice you know won't get her back.

What is it that you want to work on, in you?"

I typed below earlier.

I am making the changes she asked for, but the major one of being home isn't going to happen over night. I first have to find a job that is going to pay me enough to do this without my wifes help on the bills. This complicates thing a lot more considering I now have to look for a job the is giving me the same pay scale I make now, which I have yet to find a single one. The other changes she has asked for like date night every week, sharing whats on my mind, communicating more, doing the dishes, taking care of the garden, words of affirmations and quality time are kind of a bust without her around.

I hope that finally makes sense on my seemingly resistance to change. I mean I already starting taking care of the garden and I have been doing the dishes and trying to save money where I can, but again without her around to see then it's only for my benefit, which is all fine and dandy, but it's just kidding myself to say that it doesn't matter in terms of my wife. What are we all here for and doing the 180's for if its not for the benefit of both spouses?

You continue to talk about the changes I am not making and Im only making excuses, but I have said what I am doing. How does this not translate to you and making excuses and not changing? I am being serious here because it's not clicking with me. What the heck am I doing wrong in every ones eyes. Even better yet what could I be doing better or more of??

[Cali08]

I have started a list of what I love about my wife and the reasons I wanted to marry her in the first place. I am also listing what I don't like so much too. I am in this boat the same as my wife and I am beginning to have my own doubts too. I thought my wife was in this for think or thin and I never believed she would abandon me and throw away the history we have together. That was one of the things I loved about her in the first place was the fact that I felt secure with her and growing old together. She now says she was never herself and doesn't know who she is. This makes me question a lot of things about her to be honest. I am working through things too. I still feel love for my wife and what we shared together, but in light of these new things Im am not sure who I was loving. Was it the real person or the one she was pretending to be. I feel played and lied too.....