Here again part 5

[25yearsmlc]

PS

I thought the session went as well as you could (realistically) hope.

What if you tried, for now, to put the focus on what you can give your h more than what you need or want from him?

IMHO, The all or nothing approach is not to be used at this time.

[T384]

H described me as a roller coaster - one day I am nice and friendly and the next day we are arguing and I'm telling him he needs to fess up to cheating and tell the kids we're getting a divorce. That's not really the reality but I have been a little up and down (not on a day to day basis). he said we have good days and bad days, but in reality those days are dependent on both of us. The counselor told H his behavior makes me very anxious and that if he wants me to step back he needs to give me a reason to. H just said things are 'up and and down.' I don't think that H really thinks I am trying to work on the M so to speak. He thinks that I just want to flip a switch and have everything be okay. He said he can't do that, that he's trying and it will take time. I struggle because I know that he is lying to me about things that I haven't told him I know. He doesn't know I look at the phone bill so when he lies and says he never has talked to the OW in question I know its a lie but I'm not willing to show all my cards. I also know for example he went to lunch and ignored my calls during lunch. Then when he calledm e back he said he had been working the whole time and didn't have his phone. Again, I know this is a lie and it's like if he has nothing to hide why lie? So it spirals me down a path of WTF. I do want to believe him but when he lies and I know it's a lie how am I supposed to? I told him I knew he was lying and that I know he has called that girl. He just said he left work for a little bit to get drinks (a lie) and that yeah shes probably called him or vice versa about work related things. I just told him that the truth will come out eventually. He told me I should call her and ask her. He then said that he hopes I look for stuff so that when I find nothing and see that he's telling the truth I can be the one that's sorry and looks like an [censored].

So back to how H can make me feel 'safe or important' I told H and the counselor it's his behavior and treatment toward me. Changing his phone password back to what it's always been. Being more involved in my life for example calling me like he used to on his way home from work, asking how my day was and yes I said it should go both ways but maybe he could initiate those things. I really don't want to have to go through his phone, I don't want to be in a relationship like that. I want someone that makes me feel secure and not have the need to go through the phone.

So what does this all mean? Where does this lead me? I don't know. I am so damn torn on what I should be doing. The C wants me to make an effort and be loving and stop playing chicken and reach out to H and him reciprocate and to the same. Part of me thinks that's what he needs. Then the other part of me (my brain) is telling me he's lying to you and being suspicious. Leave him be and go about your life without him. I really don't know what the right course of action is.

[Anchor]

I totally get what you're saying - I vacillated between being able to understand WH's actions and totally hating his guts. I am talking murder-grade hate.

Things clarified for me a lot when I spoke to a friend who is a devout Christian. Her advice really resonated with me and you don't have to have faith to apply it. Quite simply, which frame of mind (forgiving/loving vs. suspicious/angry), gives you peace? That's the one you want to be practising - drop the mindset that produces actions that create conflict etc. The right course of action is the one that gives you a sense of peace - it will resonate with your core and your values.

So even though my WH is, to all appearances, going strong with OW, I'm not getting het up about it anymore. I've accepted his reasons for doing it. I'm acting in a way that I am happy with. I don't want to attack him anymore. It might make me look a fool, a doormat in front of my friends, but I'm not going to quit trying to save my marriage for anyone else but my son. At this point I don't care about what anyone else thinks except me and my DS.

It helps that I've had a kind of lightbulb moment and understand why WH did what he did. I've accepted it and forgiven him. I don't agree with what he's done, it's still a superbly crappy thing, but I've realised he wasn't doing it to deliberately hurt me. I keep coming up against this statement - hurting people hurt people. That helped me understand him and what he's done.

[cadence]

I don't know. I am so damn torn on what I should be doing. The C wants me to make an effort and be loving and stop playing chicken and reach out to H and him reciprocate and to the same. Part of me thinks that's what he needs. Then the other part of me (my brain) is telling me he's lying to you and being suspicious. Leave him be and go about your life without him. I really don't know what the right course of action is.

T0,

What do you really gain at a time like this if you keep your guard up? What are the potential benefits?

And what would you gain if you let your guard down?

Let's make a list:

Guard up

Benefits

• Feels safe (but is that an illusion?)

Drawbacks

• Loss of potential emotional intimacy with H
• Stress of constantly needing to be on guard
• How can H prove a negative?
• H may leave or want divorce

Guard down

Benefits

• Potential for lower stress experience welcoming new baby
• Potential for emotional intimacy with H
• H feels trusted and less likely to leave or want divorce

Drawbacks

• Potential of feeling blindsided if H is cheating

Written out like that, I know what I'd recommend.

[sandi2]

Originally Posted By: sandi2
I hope the guys on the board will take my poking at men with good humor.

I don't understand.

Thanks, Doodler.....I was counting on ya.

[sandi2]

Can you hang in there until next Wednesday?

[T384]

Oh ya for sure... I've been going at it for 6 weeks.

H is working this weekend. Apparently it's mandatory this weekend (first time ever). I didn't even ask twice about it. He's going to do what he's going to do. But the boys and I will be gone all day they have 4 soccer games all over the place in about a 100 mile radius then we have 2 birthday parties so I'll be too busy to care and too exhausted by the end of the day lol. Then Sunday is my shower and I have a huge exam Monday morning that I'll be cramming for Sunday evening. Tuesday is my last free day to finish up logging all my clinical patients and prepping for the baby then Wednesday morning I have to be at the hospital at 8am! I am hoping and praying it will be a fast easy labor. Both my boys came within 5 hours of being induced. I feel like royalty at the hospital they already have my nurse picked out and the best room reserved for me it's the little things lol.

I'm sure I mentioned this already but my grandma is coming in town the following Saturday for a week after I have the baby so I'll be staying at the beach condo with her since H will be returning to work. I'm so appreciative of her coming and helping me.

Sandi what do I do with him with the lying... Does that automatically mean he's up to something? I'm just a cut to the chase kind of girl like don't waste my time and the truth will come out eventually so why drag it out.

Do you suggest I follow the C advice for these next few weeks of being living and reaching out and reciprocating? I am torn on what's the right thing to do.

[Train]

Gosh, T, I feel so much of my old self in these most recent posts.

It seems easy for those of us on the outside to see the positives in this latest development ... and probably especially to those who are currently separated and feeling they'd give anything to get from their spouses just that little bit of hope that you got from your H. I mean, it does sound like a pretty successful counseling session. But to us "old hats" who have been here before ( ), it's easier to be cynical ... and expect a bit more.

And if your H had shown some truth-telling ... or some remorse ... I think it would be quite easy to take the C's advice and run with it. In fact, I think his advice sounds very much like what my H and I had to do when we began piecing our M back together.

But there's a little step that feels like it's missing between where you are right now and where the C wants you to be ... like, *now*. First: a commitment on both of your parts to the M. That, in my experience, was a critical first step before I could take that blind leap of faith and start "acting as if" in earnest. Second, it would be awfully hard for me to be vulnerable and act "loving" toward a man who I knew was actively lying to me (even about something "small") - and specifically about a girl that I felt in my gut was baddddd news. It's *good* that you're a little suspect about this C's advice. It's hard to jump from having a Ph.D. in something to acting like you're stupid. I feel you!!!!

That being said, *if* you want your M to work, I agree with the others: you have to start *somewhere* - and fast - in meeting your H's stated needs. And I also firmly believe that a small change in one spouse's behavior (actions ... not necessarily words) can spark a change in the other's. (And FTR, I sooooo agree with sandi about how so many men need gold-star stickers for everything they do on top of what's "expected." And the PRAISE! Ugh! )

Try to look at it like a sandwich and you're taking off just a tiny nibble. Come up with something small you can do every day to meet his stated needs in a way that does not compromise your core values and boundaries. It could even be something subtle that maybe he doesn't outwardly recognize so you don't feel you're choking back your dignity or pride to do it. Make an effort to do it daily. When you've got it down pat, add a second thing. It can be as simple as smiling at him. (Remember a week or so ago when that felt impossible?)

Three days and counting until D-Day, yes? Oh my!

[T384]

Hi Train!

Missed you these last few days. And yes I believe having been here before is a double edged sword. It makes me more like ... I call BS. Been there done that.. but then again it doesn't necessarily mean that's the case this time but hard not to relate to that. The C explained all that to H.

I told H my reservations about this girl that she looks very similar to previous OW and I'm pretty sure they're the same age. It's just that when I know he's lying it's like how am I supposed to believe anything he says? Even if he says the sky is blue I would still be hesitant to believe if he's telling the truth. If that makes sense.

But in the same sense. I get what you're saying. I'm pushing him further away IF there is nothing

If he had said it C he was commited to the M or willing to make it work I would be able to let go. But he did t say that. Being the devils advocate he also didn't say he was done and he's willing to continue MC after the baby comes. But the counselor said if we come back and decide to split that's something we can discuss in C so then I start thinking is that his intention for when we go back to tell me he's done?

I know
My actions directly impact him. As I stopped bringing stuff up he started sleeping in the room and kissing me goodnight. I think I need to continue to do less talking and more action.

I just don't know what that looks like or what it is. I do smile at him and I am pleasant at the house. C said to act as his loving wife not his mother. I guess it would be easier if I knew where he stood or if he was commited. Because I don't want to do things and be a pushover when I know he's lying.

So what actions do you suggest? My brain is literally fried. I was driving my son to. Soccer today and he's like mom where are you going. I drove him to school lol ... pregnancy at its finest. I had an hour and a half webcam interview with my school faculty today simulating a patient scenario/exam so today I am exhausted.

So I may need a little more hand holding or suggestions because I really don't know what to do that doesn't come off as a kiss ass or push over but still meets his needs.

[25yearsmlc]

lying $ucks, I'm sure we all agree. But are all lies really the same?


Have I EVER "lied" to h? Well, yes. I for sure flattered him more than I felt, and did not say I minded things I did mind, b/c he could not change them.


I covered for the kids - and justified it b/c he over reacted or I didn't agree with what I believed his reaction would be, and the mistake was already done--(and I'm justifying it now!)

AND I am sure I glossed over some aspects of things, or left out things someone might say that would offend h...

did I knowingly lie solely to protect my own self interest? Can't think of one but I'm sure there were some bc it was a long m.

Point being, I wasn't hiding a big dark secret. (Just lots of stupid ones?)