One question, Should I confront her about the affair and if so how do I handle the conversation?
Speaking for myself, confronting about the EAs she was having only pushed her deeper into them. She had checked out of our marriage already, because she felt like she wasn't getting what she needed from me. She was unwilling to give up the "friends" that were making her "feel better" (I still think they're one of the CAUSES of her problems, but she doesn't and that's what matters) to go back to what made her unhappy, so it just pushed her further away from me, and closer to them.
Even her being confronted by the truth of what I was saying didn't change that. She just rationalized it away.
and have you read the Div Remedy or Div Busting, book?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I need as much help as I can get. This May will be 17 years married. We have had a rocky marriage with good times and bad ones. The last 2-3 years have been really rough. Me and my W were stuck in this vicious cycle of arguing then finally making up and then repeating it almost every other month. The last 7-8 months we just completely disconnected from each other. It got to the point 6 weeks ago we were ready to divorce and I was going to move out. I slept in my car for 2 days at work with no distractions. Just me and my thoughts and as if a giant light bulb went on, I realized where I have failed in our relationship. I was able to get see through my frustration and hurt feelings and saw what I needed to do to try and make things right instead of blaming her.
what were the things YOU want to work on, in you? How are you doing with making those changes?
Your w will probably not trust your changes, and wants out of a marriage that has not been meeting her needs for a long time
** (not saying she's blameless! Just that you can only control your end of the street and she's not here trying to save the m, you are).**
So how are you showing her that marriage to you can be better/different than the one she wants out of? What steps are you taking to "fix" the way you react when you feel anger, b/c we all feel anger at times. What are the ongoing issues you two mostly fight about?
Is it a question of "we fight about everything but then we escalate fast" or is it about issues that are painful for one or both, and just don't ever get really fixed? Here's the math of it
small consistent changes + time = change she can believe in.
You understand more than most that your m was vulnerable to an affair, in part b/c of choices you made.
So if you make different choices, over time & consistently, and become the best PEW that you can be, that's the best you can do.
(And it will be enough in the long run & down the road, for you to be at peace.)
For now, You have to counter her negative images with the opposite, positives images. Like if she said you are always late, you become MR PUNCTUAL and arrive on time or early, for everything. You want her "data" about you to be seen as false or no longer accurate. Her data about you won't be "real".
From the sounds of it, you have a temper issue and do not know how to "fight fair" or resolve conflicts.
If you did, you would not have the same cycle of fights every month. It's like an attack and retreat approach to a war without end.
One of you changing DOES change the dynamic. And it doesn't mean surrender. It means handing conflicts in a healthy way
no one "Likes" conflict so please don't react with the "I'm conflict avoidant" reply. Resolving disagreements is just mandatory for healthy adult relationships.
So that's something to work on...yes?
I went home to talk to her after this and we had a conversation. She said "I am not in love with you anymore" and it broke my heart. I remained calm and strong ^^that's great.
and we decided that it was probably best for me to stay in the house financially. I have come to realize through these last few weeks that my wife is having an affair and it seems she is in love with the OM. don't mind read about how she feels OR believe what she says or wonder if it's real or going to be lasting, etc. Don't get into her head as it relates to him.
He's not the issue or cause of marital strife, as you know. He's a symptom of her unmet needs and a troubled m, which you know AND which is something you can change.
I have thought about this long and hard and know that I can and will forgive her if given the chance. Before you speak of forgiveness, don't assume she doesn't have a ton of resentment about you and a lot of forgiveness she'll have to do to even want to reconcile. It's way premature to talk of forgiveness, plus my guess is she does not feel wrong about the A, she feels justified. She probably blames you.
*To be clear, I'm not defending her A. I'm someone who does not see all Affairs as alike, and I know some are a lot easier to recover from, than others. There's empirical data to support this statement, btw.* No good marriage can endure without a lot of mutual forgiveness, offered, given, requested and accepted, often.
I lover her so much and just want her back but don't know what to do. Did you deeply want her back before you realized you were losing her?
Part of every LBSer's challenge is finding that fine line between ego (i.e. wanting to "win"- or at least NOT to be the rejected one)
and really wanting to restore the m with the spouse to whom they were married.
I have read a lot on the internet and have not begged and pleaded for her to come back. Get and read the Div Busting or Div Remedy (like the 2nd edition of the first) book asap. Really, don't skim it. Take it in and process it. If possible, get a DB coach. I found mine to be invaluable and totally worth it.
No matter what else, I'm a better woman for it.
But what are the negative images of you that you want to counter, with your w?
I have gone through many changes internally and physically. I have lost 22 lbs and been taking care of myself. I have been respectful to my W and have showed her nothing but sincere love without saying love her. can you give a specific example? And just to be clear, not to harp, but you do know that being "respectful" is a basic... right?
We are actually at a point where we are talking nicely to each other and she actually let me come sleep in the bedroom again as long as I stay on my side.
PEW
First, you have the right to be in the marital bed. Period. Respect her physical boundaries (& don't be a jerk about asserting yours)
but don't act as if she's doing you a favor by "letting" you in the bed you both own...
Second, it's GOOD that you are able to have conversations without tempers flaring. Listen to her and gather information about what matters most to her, not b/c everything she says is true or accurate (though she may mean it at the time)...consider it a "reconnaissance mission" if you will. Spend more time listening than talking and figure out somewhere in there, what parts of what she says ring true.
3rd, there will be posters here - who will exclusively focus on your w's A and how wrong she is and how "all affairs are always wrong and there's never any excuse" etc etc.
They will condemn her and want you to also. (Never mind your goal of saving the m). They will have zero insight into what made your m vulnerable. They may fuel your anger.
They are usually victims of infidelity (as am I) and there are always parts of us that project our own pain and situations onto others. That's human nature and besides, we want you to learn from our errors and experiences.
Just Remember that you know your m and your flaws better than we do. Just a thought.
I know she goes out once a week and sees him and I have been trying to go out once a week to reconnect with old friends. Trying to get a life again but the OM constantly texts her he misses her and loves her. I haven't told her that I know. Stupid me was going to try and wait it out and just be there for her when she needed me. Do you have children? If so, how many and what are their ages? If possible, I would go out A LOT MORE and be mysterious.
You really need to read the DB book or the Div Remedy book asap. It'll explain 2 basics right away
"GAL" means Getting A Life apart from your m. It's key to being able to DETACH from the situation and not worry so much about what she is thinking/planning/feeling
and feel more "together". You can't go losing it, or "dying inside" for long. It's too damn hard and painful.
The other part of GAL is being a bit mysterious. Check the DB rules that Sandi posted around here somewhere.
In fact let me see if I have them...okay here they are with a few added ones so, there are 40
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to reach out to you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc.
4. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances - Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not schedule dates or trips together at this point. (That is pursuing.) 9. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, Social media, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
10. Do not say "I Love You" (If he says it, assume he means it as the mother of your children. Friends, in effect). 12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also. 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!)
19.*** No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show or speak to them with happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. BE A MAN ONLY A FOOL WOULD LEAVE***
That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with, (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a LONG TIME, OR NEVER) so this takes patience on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait…..GET OFF THE PHONE or leave the room…politely of course.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Sometimes the right thing to say is nothing.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared and bitter.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they are "tactics" which won't last and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes or alcohol where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
38. Know that in time, you really will be happy again, regardless of your spouse’s choices. Know this, believe it, and let it show.
39. Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.
40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed by him. What matters is this day and “from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past and what you cannot control. It’s a lot to let go of, but it is freeing.
I am slowly dying inside. I have my good days and my bad days but I am making it through.
I am wondering where do I begin.
Please help.
To begin, Get the book, read it and meanwhile, learn to use the rules and apply them. Post and read here...
and hang in there, there is hope - as you are in the house and she can see the changes,
and you can start GAL to Detach and make some progress!
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
What is the goal of not? Just let it continue? Really?
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
My mind is all scattered right now. I forgot to mention that we have to children. A daughter who will be 18 and going to college this year and a son who is 7 years old. Just trying to add more details about our Marriage.
thanks - I missed that.
Be the best most involved father you can be right now.
First, it's the right thing to do and your kids need you more now than ever.
Second, it's extremely attractive to a woman to see her children lovingly interacting with their father. No woman is unmoved by that.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Is there certain times I need to call between? I am currently at work and usually work 10-11 hours a day. Is there a consultation fee? Sorry but I am new to this and am very interested in saving my wife and my marriage.
I couldn't fathom NOT confronting a WW. This is the ultimate act of disrespect that a spouse can show. In my case, I took a week after discovering my W's A. I then confronted her and told her she had to move out of the house. I knew she was planning on leaving in the near future on her own but because I confronted her, she left on MY terms. I made it very clear that I would NOT be treated that way.
A big part of the mindset of a WW is disrespect. If you allow your W to continue in her A while living under your roof and being supported by you, then you are saying that you are OK with being disrespected which is VERY unattractive.
Some people do continue without confronting but I don't know how they do it. You may not be able to kick her out of the house based on the laws of your state, but at a bare minimum, I would kick her out of the MBR. The MBR is a sacred place only for people committed to the R. She's not so she has to go.
If you do decided to confront your W, things may blow up. Things may get worse. She may run to OM. All of that [censored] but you've got to grow a pair and start standing up for yourself. That is more important than what may happen after confronting her.
I couldn't fathom NOT confronting a WW. This is the ultimate act of disrespect that a spouse can show. In my case, I took a week after discovering my W's A. I then confronted her and told her she had to move out of the house. I knew she was planning on leaving in the near future on her own but because I confronted her, she left on MY terms. I made it very clear that I would NOT be treated that way.
A big part of the mindset of a WW is disrespect. If you allow your W to continue in her A while living under your roof and being supported by you, then you are saying that you are OK with being disrespected which is VERY unattractive.
BOOM. Very well said. Maybe its a weakness thing - are people afraid to confront because they think that somehow it will "push them away" or "further deeper" into the affair? Get real. What is unfathomable is how some say its bad...and to just let the affair continue. Good grief.
Quote:
you do decided to confront your W, things may blow up. Things may get worse. She may run to OM. All of that [censored] but you've got to grow a pair and start standing up for yourself. That is more important than what may happen after confronting her.
Love it.
Say, LiM. There is always room for another in our crew if you are interested. Contact me over on my flying blind thread if you want in.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
I have always been involved with my children. In regards to 25yearsmlc, here are some of the answers to the questions you asked.
Since I was usually working 70 + hours a week to afford the better things for us as a family, I have cut my hours back and go in an hour earlier so I have a presence in the house again instead of coming in before bedtime I am home by 7:00PM.
I am picking up more than my share of the chores (probably cause I can not sit still anymore) no matter how tired I am. I am trying to do these things out of pure consideration for my wife before being asked because it is what I should have always done. I am not selfishly looking at my life and feeling like I have given so much to work that I don't have time/energy for anything else some days.
To be honest, I haven't argued with my wife or kids about anything for the past 6 weeks. I react calmly and in an even tone with everyone. I see now all my faults and am truly trying to correct my ways. Not just to try and save my marriage but because it is the way I NEED and SHOULD be.
I have been secretly going back to Church regularly. I don't tell my wife about it so I do it before I go food shopping. I don't want it to come off as insincere. It helps keep me somewhat mentally stable.
Part of my dilemma is for the past 7 months we had a hard time being in the same room. When we would fight it was more like her yelling at me and me shutting down but for the past 6 weeks with me instituting these changes I have seen my wife start to communicate with me more and more. There has been no fights but that is probably because she has given up on me and is only thinking about the OM.
I wasn't in any way assuming she will forgive me. I apologize if it came off that way. I was just stating that cheating was always a big deal breaker for me but I truly love her and do realize the part I played in this and would be willing to forgive her for the affair.
I don't know how to react. I am trying to read as much as possible so I can better equip myself when the time comes. I had read somewhere that if you are unsure of what to say or how to respond to something then hold off. This way you avoid making a mistake. Sounded like sound advice to me but I am new to all this. I appreciate everyone's advice and concern. It is comforting when you feel like you are going through this all alone.
