WAS vs MLC..not sure it really makes a difference

[BluWave]

Whoa!!! That's a lot! I have so many thoughts/ideas, but I don't want to overwhelm you anymore than you might be. So I'll try to keep it brief!

First, he's very, very conflicted. Clearly. This guy is mixed up and doesn't know what to do. Sounds like he feels guilty for what he did, is possibly having some second thoughts, but also feels like he already ruined everything. He is most likely focused on his self because of his depression. So much as his selfishness and avoidance has hurt you, please realize he wasn't doing it directly to you, but that was the consequence. I have had to learn that Hs A was not an assault on me, but his inability to cope and run.

It sounds like you did a great job of listening and validating! Bravo! That's probably why he talked for so long, because he finally felt safe. Well that and he wants money, but it seems he also wanted to make some type of connection. How did you feel after the interaction? Do you feel better about the way you handled it and that you kept your cool?

So your feeling some detachment now that you have seen him still selfish (and a bit pitiful) and I think that is perfectly normal! Please don't think too much if this because feelings really do change all the time. I want to share with you that when my H started trying to come back, he appeared very vulnerable and even needy. It was not attractive at all! So I started to pull back, he started to pursue, and thus you have the dynamics shifting. So please try and not assess you desire for the M based on one interaction. I have to still think about my M and the bigger picture--head over heart, that's what I always say.

If you want to start making changes about your home, etc, that's totally fine! Do what works for you and live your life. Can you do this without the goal of winning him back or D (or to punish him)? Meaning, without any thoughts of him and the M?

So I am glad you are starting to detach and want to move forward. I think that will be so good for you! And I wanted to add that even if you start feeling more done with him and the M, please continue to DB for you. It's really about you--GAL, 180, and allow yourself to release the anger. Continue to stay dim, don't initiate contact, and when he reaches out you can still just listen and validate. These are great skills for any R, so this is perfect practice. It also keeps your power in the R with him--and he sees you strong and moving on--he pulls back when he feels you are upset and angry.

Please trust me that thihgs can change, fast or slow, but they will never stay the same. My H was depressed and selfish for a long time, and like I said, when he first came back, he was not attractive to me and the tables turned quickly! However, he did the hard work: he went to IC, read books, and he looked at himself. We also went to MC, and 2 years later I have seen so many changes in him. The hardest part for me has been letting go of anger and looking at my mistakes. I have felt so justified in my anger because I was so wronged by his terrible choices.

It has taken me years to finally start to let go of anger and also see my faults in the M. It's so, so hard! I am not saying you are like me or that your H is similar to my H, but I do want you to see that your still on the roller coaster. It's okay to just stay where you are (in the unknown territory) and not make choices about the M and just keep living your life. In time this will all sort out, but this truly is a marathon and not a sprint.

Keep us posted!

Blu

[skyhigh]

So proud of you. You changed so much since last December. It seems that a more confident" you" is starting to emerge.

I am really impressed how you handled that meeting/conversation and how you were able to detach and validate him for such a long time. That's your life, only you can decide what the best for you as today, tomorrow being tomorrow.

(((hugs)))

[skm0619]

WOW.....that last post of mine was definitely long (sorry about that)

Blu......I have read what you posted to me several times. What you said makes a lot of sense to me. I am not sure exactly what it was that made me have this change of feelings towards my H and my M. I agree that he is conflicted, and that he thinks he has done too much damage and can never repair what he has done to me or our M. I also think he has too much pride and is a coward, and lacks the courage to be able to tell me how he really feels. And, until he is able to do that he will continue to struggle. He really doesn't have the coping skills needed at this point in his life, and I'm not sure if he ever will. He is totally depressed right now, even though he would never admit that.

I was proud of myself for being able to spend that much time with him, and validate how he was feeling for the majority of the time. I did get emotional at one point, and as usual he showed no sympathy towards me at all. It's as if he just shuts that part of his brain off.

I have started detaching from him.....something I thought I would NEVER be able to do. Now, have I totally detached, no where near that, but at least I am on my way. For the better part of the past 16 months he has consumed the majority of my thoughts. Since meeting with him the other day, I find that I haven't really thought about him as much. I guess seeing him look pitiful, knowing he is struggling because of selfish decisions he made/continue to make and being emotionless, have allowed me to be able to do that. I am trying not to take everything he says or does personal, but when it is being done to you, or has been done to you for such a long time, it is really difficult.

I am going to move forward with my life. I am finally excited about things moving forward. I am looking forward to selling this house and finding a new place to live. I am looking at places very opposite from where I live now. I think this will be so good for me.

I have not given up on my M, or the possibility of some sort of R with H, but I am moving forward and will continue to DB. I will definitely keep in mind what you said about not doing all of this with the thoughts that he will come back, or to punish him in some way. That was a great thing for me to read.

Skyghigh.....all of your wonderful words of wisdom and support has brought me to this place where I finally am starting to feel like I can move forward and let go. It has been very difficult for me, and I know that things are still going to be difficult at times, but I am looking at things differently. I can feel a little of the old me coming back, and I like it

I also feel like my anger towards H is becoming less of an issue for me. I know he is reaching out because he needs money, but I am going to have to not let that upset me, or bring me to a place of anger.

One day at a time......

[skm0619]

Well I did it......I spoke to a realtor, signed all the papers and put my house on the market. I did tell H what my decision was and he was shocked and was surprised I wanted to sell it. I told him that I no longer have any attachments to this house. It is not that I really want to move (my work is literally 5 minutes from here) but that I need to move. I need to do this for me. He said he has many attachments to this place. A lot of "firsts" happened here for him. He also mentioned that he realized that he had many of the things he did have, including this house, because of me.

When we were speaking about selling the house I asked if we could face time instead of just speak. We were talking and he still has such a sad look to him. I asked him if he could do me a favor and try to smile more, and his response was "I'm not there yet." We spoke about other things, and I mentioned that my other vehicle (the one mainly used for the dogs) was not running. He said "I can come over right now and see if I can help you figure out what is wrong with it." Now.....it was 9:00pm and I was actually starting to settle in for the night. I said if you want to come and see if you can figure it out that would be great. In the past 16 months this man has NEVER offered to help me with anything.

He showed up and we actually ended up taking the dogs for about an hour long walk. He spoke about himself the whole time, which I expected. He still doesn't ask about me, and what I am doing, and I don't really think he is able to do that yet.

We got home, and he sat down and opened his heart out to me. He again said he was sorry for everything I have been through since BD. He is sorry that he didn't think about me when we were married and when he was making decisions, and he realizes he is very selfish. He was sorry for not putting me first. He doesn't care about what people think about him anymore, and does not make decisions based on what others think. He thanked me for giving him a good life, even when he was not able to contribute financially to that life. He said he is willing to sell the house because he knows that this is what I want, and that I deserve to get what I want.

He said a year ago he would have never been able to have this conversation, but he is learning what is important in life. He said up until a few months ago he did not care what I thought about him....but now he does. He also said he is ready to stop talking and start doing, and let his actions speak instead of just words. He mentioned that he wants to regain my trust.

I am continuing to validate him when he speaks, and I do tell him that I am proud of the person he is becoming. I told him that I don't take the A personally anymore.....and that was a hard thing for me to learn. I again said I would never take responsibility for his choice to have the affair, but do take responsibility for my actions and choices in our marriage leading up to it. He said "why would you take responsibility for the A" and I said "because you blamed me for it" and he then said "that was my defensiveness and justification for what I did."

Not really sure where all of this is coming from with him? I guess maybe he is hitting his rock bottom? Or maybe he sees that I am moving on, with or without him, and that scares him. Or maybe he is finally realizing that he needs to look deep inside himself and see that his decisions don't just affect him.

I am moving on, and it feels good to FINALLY be feeling this way. I am looking forward to the new things that are going to be happening in my life.

[skyhigh]

That's a lot of conversations in a very short period of time, that's great!

You really changed... I like the New You.

As you are starting to realize, detaching is very healthy for you, it helps you to look at yourself, take steps for your own well being, and feel so much better inside.

I like your analysis of your husband's behavior, I agree it's a mix of different things.
Something is happening for sure otherwise he won't be so compelled to talk. As you noticed, the more you validate and listen the more he speaks, it might be only about himself but at least it's the beginning of some sort of communication.

He is still in his MLC journey, most probably the replay phase is over or almost. He is starting to reflect on his actions,what led to them, and the consequences it had on him and others, it's a process, don't try to rush it, but by listening and validating him, you are actually helping him to sort out his feelings and ideas. I remember my husband used to blame me for his affairs during his replay phase, then when he entered withdrawal/depression, one day while we were talking about the past and OW, he told me that "It had nothing to do with you".

Stay detached even if he warms up to you, now being detached is almost like a second nature for me, it makes feel protected, it's my little cocoon, I have been hurt so badly, the last thing I want it's to walk through that road again.

Start living a life that makes you happy, make projects for you and if he wants to join you aboard, fine, but put yourself first, you need to heal and be able to open your heart to joy again without fear of being hurt.

I am so glad your life is starting to turn around for you, I can feel the energy coming back to you by just reading your last posts.

Carpe Diem because life is too short to let somebody steal another second of our happiness.

((HUGS))

[skm0619]

Skyhigh......as always thank you for showing me support, and of course encouragement. You (and many others) have been a great constant for me during this time.

Yes, we have had quite a bit of conversation in a short period of time. I honestly can say that I was emotionally and mentally exhausted for a few days. I have not spoken to H for 4 days, and I do not plan on reaching out to him either.

There have been so many on this board that made me realize what I needed to do in order to move forward, and to figure out what I want. It was not an easy thing for me to do, and I did it kicking and screaming that is for sure. But one thing is certain I could not have gotten to this point if it wasn't for all of you. It was hard to hear the 2x4s, but they were definitely what I needed to hear

For so long all I could think about was what my H wanted. Well...I think I can say that those days are slowly disappearing. I am learning that my life will be okay with or without him, and that I can move forward and do things regardless of what H wants. Do I want H to be in my life and for us to try and figure out if we can work on our M ..... of course I do. But, I also know that regardless of what I do he also has to want to do it.

H is slowly learning that his choice to have the A was selfish, and was the most hurtful thing he could have ever done to me. He is also learning on how and why that it had to happen. He also is realizing that how he has treated me since BD has been horrible. I am very grateful that he is getting to a place where he feels like he can open up to me and share his feelings. But also that he is comfortable with all these emotions he has been experiencing.

I am not sure what stage of the MLC he is in right now, and I am certainly not going to try and keep up with all of that. I will continue to be here for him if he needs me, and of course validate him when he speaks...which will of course be all about him

I do still think about him, but he doesn't consume all of my thoughts like he used to. Do I still love him....of course I do. But what I have come to realize is right now he is not the man I married, and I am not sure he will ever be that man again. Am I the same girl he married.....not anymore. This has taught me a lot about myself and what I need to work on.

I borrowed a quote from someone on here the last time I spoke to H and it was

"I didn't break you, so I can't fix you"

I am definitely working on fixing myself, and hopefully he continues the process of working on himself. I think that if anything comes out of this, it is that we will definitely be better people because of all that we have been through.

One day at a time......

[peacetoday]

awesome post!

keep up the good work!

[SBJ]

Great post skm...you have been in my thoughts ans prayers. You seem to get stronger and more confident each and every day. Stay strong my friend and you are right about not being able to fix them. Everyone says to focus on yourself and your needs. If they want to re-join you some time in the future, then I guess we cross that bridge when it comes. You are on the right path!!!

[skm0619]

Thank you for the kind words peacetoday and SBJ.....

I have known this for a very long time, but for some reason it has been in my mind more recently. Life is too short to cry about something that has happened in my life and my M....something that I had no control over. Do I sit around and wait for a man who may not want to ever be in my life again? Or do I live my life and do what makes me happy, and if he decides he wants to come along and be in my life then that is an added bonus. I can not continue to wait and see what he is going to do, or what decisions he is going to make. His choices can no longer affect me so profoundly. I know that he is very depressed and continues to struggle with his life, and is still making decisions based on fear.

There were times in these past 16 months that I thought I was literally going to die. I thought the hurt and devastation that I was feeling would kill me. Sometimes I had no idea how I got out of bed and went to work, or functioned normally.

As some of you may have read on some of my posts, I work in the medical field. I deal with death and dying on a regular basis. Very often I have very difficult conversations with people regarding life and death. I have had to be the one to tell family members that their loved one did not survive. I have also had to be the bearer of news regarding a terminal diagnosis. I have had many conversations with people regarding end of life, and the decision to turn machines off to let people die peacefully.

The reason I am saying all of this is that I have decided that I am going to life my life for me. Not for my H, or for anyone else.....just me. If H decides to smarten up and pull his head out of his A$$ and come along on this journey with me then great.....if not, then that is his lose.

[bttrfly]

oh, do I relate! I, too, have felt like the pain of this would kill me. Felt that many times over the past two years. I feel on some level I've been trying to decide if I'm going to stay, and by that I mean stay alive. I'm not talking suicide, as we think of it. More that people can will themselves to die, or simply stop living and just go through the motions until they actually pass.

I, too, have decided to live, for myself and my pets, and let exh go do whatever it is he needs to do. We no longer share this journey. It's time to find out what else is there for me. That's a bittersweet place to be but you are right - the MLCer will either pull it together or it's truly their loss.

I'm glad you came to this decision. It's not easy getting here, but the inner strength you've found in the process will stand you in good stead moving forward.

{{{{{hugs}}}}}