Looking for a miracle.

[kml]

Remind me again - is she on drugs? Because something about that letter sure sounded like what somebody on drugs would write.

[bttrfly]

Mon ami ... this has been in the back of my mind percolating all day. I'm just going to give you a brain dump. As always, take what you want and consign the rest to the trash heap.

I don't know what to say about the spy and FB. That's unfathomable to me. Sorry you have to go through this in addition to everything else.

Irish ... I say this with love and respect. I hope that you can tell that given the limitations of this medium.

Bear with me, there is a point to this:
My mother was diagnosed with stage three cancer three years ago. After a grueling treatment of chemo and radiation it was eradicated, only to return five months later. They said she now had stage 4 and was expected to only survive at most two years. They gave her more radiation. She has been clear since Aug of 2014. I watched her retreat from everything and everyone that was even remotely negative. She truly needed all of her energy just to get through the treatment. Prior to diagnosis, my mother was very negative. This process transformed her for the better, but it took a lot of work on her part and I saw her shy away from stressful situations because she was already in a fight for her life.

Your ex FIL was diagnosed with terminal cancer right around the same time your exw went off the deep end. At a time when he needed all of his energy and focus to survive, he was faced with a repeat of what his own wife did to him, and had to watch yet another daughter succumb to this MLC madness.

Irish, you have such a huge heart and so much compassion. I know that it hurt you and the girls when he didn't initiate calls. I very respectfully suggest that perhaps - just maybe - he too, was in a fight for his life. Maybe he didn't know what to do? And I hate to say this Irish, but God alone knows what exw said. Not that it's any excuse for hurting the girls. It isn't. But I do ask you to for one moment think about it from his perspective. He wasn't able to stop it when it happened in his marriage. It must remind him of his own situation, only having the added pain of watching his daughter, son in law and granddaughters go through this too. I can't imagine how horrible that must be

As for your eew (see, I told you the autocorrect spells exw as eew), this to me seems like a touch and go. I'd refer to Cali for a definite on that, but it sure seems like she's monitoring you, and knows you're moving on, so she pops out of her tunnel a bit to stir things up. The key to me is the slip about FB. She's watching from a distance. These MLCers want control because they know they are internally out of control. I think that's what the touch and go's are all about. Again, I'm not condoning her behavior by any means, but I am saying that awareness of this can help you the next time she pops out.

My dear friend I am so very sorry for the emotional rollercoaster and the pain. You deserve peace, light and love. You and the girls deserve space to heal and grow.

I hope with all my heart that I haven't caused you more pain or aggravation from this post. As always, I wish you only the best of everything. Much love and hugs to you and the girls {{{{{{{xoxoxoxoxo}}}}}}}

[CaliGuy]

As for your eew (see, I told you the autocorrect spells exw as eew), this to me seems like a touch and go. I'd refer to Cali for a definite on that, but it sure seems like she's monitoring you, and knows you're moving on, so she pops out of her tunnel a bit to stir things up. The key to me is the slip about FB. She's watching from a distance. These MLCers want control because they know they are internally out of control. I think that's what the touch and go's are all about. Again, I'm not condoning her behavior by any means, but I am saying that awareness of this can help you the next time she pops out.

As far as the T-n-G ... I do not even think its on that level. Reading along .. yes Irish I am still up to date with your sitch though I seldom post anymore... its just a series of Temp Checks at this point and looking at the emails through my MLC-Mindreading Glasses I would lean more towards the fact she definitely is terrified of rejection which is not uncommon with the MLCrs especially given her sitch basically abandoning the 2 daughters as she did and being faced with the social stigma that comes with that ie. "What kind of mother would ..."

My labrador ears perked up with the last comment she made:

"it's your move.
i love you lots."

This is simply her validating herself, its a "I have reached out and done all I can the ball is clearly in their court if they want to have me in their life its on them" which is a cop-out at best .... this line alone shows where she is in her journey. She has a good amount of work to do ... but she does appear to at the least be poking out a touch. Hard to say once faced with the amount of work it would take to open up a relationship with the daughters may make her shoot back into the tunnel for a bit or possible be the driving force to make her take a good hard look in the mirror and start the process of digging out. This was the case with my MLCr, she realized that all the damage done was not going to magically disappear and it very well appeared easier to run back into the tunnel vs rolling up the sleeves and doing the work.

Irish I think you have handled this all extremely well ... with grace and not allowing your boundaries to be crossed ... keeping the relationship between your girls and their mother just that .. between them is paramount and you have done this flawlessly where it would be so easy to see someone want to protect them from her at all costs you have raised to smart kids who can handle themselves which is a direct testament to the father they have.

Things may be a bit bouncy ... hang in there.

[peacetoday]

Just a guess but I think the MLCer has to continue the lie because its the only way they can keep going

they deceive themselves

the lie is I didn't do that much, It wasn't so bad, it was for the best for everyone, I deserve my happiness, Istill dont have to be responsible, I am a good person-I really didn't hurt anyone

Im not sure why she would lie about her dad, maybe at the time she thought he was dying and new information came about his progress, maybe she is on drugs or mood altering substances
You continue to handle her well and she just reinforces the fact that she needs lot more time to get through it
unfortunately it is not in our time

I felt that when my XH finally left me a VM months back,,first time since 2009--he was still looking to see if I would fix it or him in some way
he apologized but talk is cheap..I felt I handled it best with no response back( I had his friend contact him as he requested)
I could tell he wasn't ready to give up his position
he didn't hit bottom-

[Irish M]

Hi everyone

I think you are very wise not to contact her again. You've given her the thumb drive, so now it's up to her to build a relationship w/her daughters.

She's dealing w/a lot on her plate at the moment...however, stating what she did about her father was manipulation on her part.

Hi Job :-) I see it as manipulation as well to make us feel bad. Victim is her game . She did it with my mom months ago and even confessed to me that she tried to manipulate my mom with guilt

I know I may sound harsh in this...but she's got to bottom out.

Yes, I agree with you 100% . bottom is still far away for her. She has too many enablers. Her mom paying for her lost income. Her BF , drugs and drinking to self medicate.

Job I completely agree, although something good did come of it, as Irish and the girls will see her father before the end xo

Yes, we are planning a trip this Friday to see him I spoke to his girlfriend and she should call me to confirm Thursday night. It will do him and the girls some good. Sad thing is, the girls think their mom will be hiding in the basement and abuse them. I won't let that happen.

Irish -

Caught up with your sitch before bed last night but didn't reply because I felt my response was harsh. I wanted to see what others said. I read what bttrfly and job said and I agree.

Hi Brubeck :-) thanks for ringing in. No worries about being harsh or not. I read everyone's responses and take them all in. They help me see things at different angles and has saved my own sanity many times over.

I read her note to your girls as saying:

You need to get over this
My life has changed (OM) and you need to accept this
I don't expect to be shouted at

I can see why your girls may not respond well to that.

Hi Sotto :-)Yes, it's not the best approach and it shows that she's not ready to connect to them.
She needs more time and needs to really see things for what they are.

Remind me again - is she on drugs? Because something about that letter sure sounded like what somebody on drugs would write.

Hi KML :-) Yes, drugs are involved. And alcohol. She was a social drinker. 1-2 beers every month at an outing. Not a wine drinker and at home we hardly touched the stuff. When she'd join me at the pub she would have a pint of Guinness and that's it. She quit smoking 17 years ago. Has smoked a joint once in all our time together and felt tired and did not like it.

After BD, she was having wine coolers daily, got drunk a few times, started smoking a pack a day and is a avid pot user. Her BF has crack teeth and is a pot head. Let's just say she is not in the best of hands.

I don't know what to say about the spy and FB. That's unfathomable to me. Sorry you have to go through this in addition to everything else.

hi Bttrfly :-) Well I didn't drop down in any friends on FB. I just hope the message was clear and people mind their own business.

Your ex FIL was diagnosed with terminal cancer right around the same time your exw went off the deep end. At a time when he needed all of his energy and focus to survive, he was faced with a repeat of what his own wife did to him, and had to watch yet another daughter succumb to this MLC madness.

You are so right. I don't blame him and I really feel for the guy. Having his wife do this and now his youngest daughter.

As for your eew (see, I told you the autocorrect spells exw as eew), this to me seems like a touch and go. I'd refer to Cali for a definite on that, but it sure seems like she's monitoring you, and knows you're moving on, so she pops out of her tunnel a bit to stir things up. The key to me is the slip about FB. She's watching from a distance.

Funny that "eew"... gets me each time. Yes, she can do what she wants as long as I don't hear of it. I protect my FB and privacy is on high. I avoid her FB for a year and a half now.

its just a series of Temp Checks at this point and looking at the emails through my MLC-Mindreading Glasses I would lean more towards the fact she definitely is terrified of rejection which is not uncommon with the MLCrs especially given her sitch basically abandoning the 2 daughters as she did and being faced with the social stigma that comes with that ie. "What kind of mother would ..."

Hi Cali :-) yes fear of rejection plays big time with her. Not wanting the girls to speak their minds. MIL also told XW she is afraid tht the girls will call her out on her aciotns . So MIL avoids the girls. How to be an adult by MLC.r grandma.

"it's your move.
i love you lots."

This is simply her validating herself, its a "I have reached out and done all I can the ball is clearly in their court if they want to have me in their life its on them" which is a cop-out at best ....

like some sort of a game. Like you said, it's in the girls court now as per XW. She needs to process this some more and try again hopefully. That letter will make it hard for the girls to even open a 2nd one.

She has a good amount of work to do ... but she does appear to at the least be poking out a touch. Hard to say once faced with the amount of work it would take to open up a relationship with the daughters may make her shoot back into the tunnel for a bit or possible be the driving force to make her take a good hard look in the mirror and start the process of digging out.

Yes the last month of contact has been very different. She did seem lucid but reserved. then this last week very MLC'r/entitled/not guilty. What she told me 3 weeks ago is something very different to what she actually wrote. Like another person wrote it.

Just a guess but I think the MLCer has to continue the lie because its the only way they can keep going

they deceive themselves

the lie is I didn't do that much, It wasn't so bad, it was for the best for everyone, I deserve my happiness, I still don't have to be responsible, I am a good person-I really didn't hurt anyone

Hi Peace :-) yes they deceive themselves but I think they actually believe what they say. When XW was still in the house and she'd lie, She had this smirk on her face like she was getting away with something. It got to a point that it was actually funny. Like Dr, Evil plotting to hold the planet ransom for a million dollars. mouhahaha


So this Friday I will take the girls to see their grandfather. He is happy we are coming.
His girlfriend said XW goes there every 2 months for 15 mins to a half hour. I don't expect her to be in the basement.

XW has been quiet. The letter is sitting on the living room table, the girls have not replied to it at all. D16 had a friend over this weekend and she read the letter. She couldn't believe that their mom is still missing in action. She knows my XW very well as she has been over quite the few times over the years.

D16 made a mistake. She went on XW Facebook using her friends account. She browsed the pictures on the timeline. Saw D14 pic from the parade we were in. XW writing , here's my baby girl. My daughter. Her mom adding the comment .. there's my grand daughter ., No pictures other that that one. She said she scrolled through her FB for months. Nothing about her and no other pictures. Typical narcissistic MLC'r. Selfies and quotes about life.

I reminded D16 it is no good to see her page. She replied she wanted to. She misses her old mom and needs to be sometimes reminded of who she is now. She doesn't want to forget all she has done. Doesn't want to get played again like she did after BD1. It's sad to hear her say things like that. I understand her at the same time. Forgiving XW isn't forgetting. And forgiving is usually after an apology or that she accepts what she had done. Not downplaying it and pretending it never happened.

I think I said this in a previous post. D16 starts jr. college next year. She has applied to the psychology program. She wants to help families that go through this type of crisis. God bless her.

[peacetoday]

Irish

It is hard on the kids
but I see my kids now
although I'm sure a deep scar exists for their abandoned father
they do seem well adjusted to me
even with his weak attempts to connect with our D this past year and his cowardly decline to talk to her via phone, she is ok-

she understands that people sometimes get sick and some can't recover
-he is one of those

we hold a special hope of prayer for his well being-and one day recovery
but
I dont think my XH will ever recover..for himself too much damage
too many years out there on drugs
crazy OW now wife

at one point I thought he would get better
but many MLCer will continue on that road for the rest of their lives
some will turn..not sure the percentage

I wonder what they think when they look at their old lives..many were quite successful
financially well off with nice families--nice homes ect

to their present lives..drugs, crazy partners, no blood family, kids won't speak to them, living in poverty or debt.. apartments or rentals

I think one caring parent is enough not perfect but adequate to facilitate their growth
I am grateful that my kids seem ok and we got through the crises
at this point ---it seems long gone

everyone has forgot about dad and has moved on doing their own lives
and everyone is thriving except him

hang in
more will be revealed

[Irish M]

Hi Peace, your post made me think so much of my girls. That they are ok and they understand their mom is not well. You have been the rock for your kids. Job well done.


Just an update from the grandfather visit
Went to see XW's dad last Friday. Took the kids out of school and made the 3 hour trip.

Quick intro to her father and girlfriend
I'll call him Charlie and her Ruth.

Charlie is a LBS'r. From what I heard he took it bad. Became suicidal and depressed. Self injured himself to get attention.
He lost his job and never worked a day in his life again.
Went on disability and looked for a roommate to share expenses.Ruth comes in the picture. A widower who never worked and had 3 kids to raise. Needed someone to care for the bills, house and lawn.

First few years Charlie saw my XW a few weekends a year. Did camping trips with Ruts kids. XW sister was old enough she moved in with her boyfriend. As time went one it was 2-3 times a year.

Charlie and Ruth never shared a bedroom and it was friends only. It was made clear to everyone. Ruth was always cold to Charlie. We never liked Ruth.

Fast forward to his colon cancer diagnosis. Tis was before the BD and I believe was the trigger.
XW was crying and sad she wasn't close to her dad. XMIL invites her over and trashes Charlie because XW is sad for him. XMIL tells XW that Charlie her dad, was controlling and a bad man. That was why she left him long ago. For hewr survival and she went with a car salesman that XW never talked about except that he was a player.

XW comes home that night saying she will never talk to her father ever again. Countdown to my BD starts then. 4 months later XW leaves.

Me and the girls visited Charlie a few times after XW left . I called several times. Never an attempt from them to reach us. No birthday or Xmas card , nada.

Fast forward to this Friday

We showed up before lunch. Charlie is in bed resting because he was running around the day before shopping. We sat with Ruth. The girls were good and played along with Ruth. Conversation was about Charlie. She talked about him dying. He isn't doing well and the girls need to see him often before he goes.

We have lunch and Charlie gets up, he sees the girls. Tears flowing from his eyes and the girls eyes too. I get chocked up as well.
We talk about the girls and his health. Girls are clearly happy them came to see him. D16 mentions her love for cacti. He grows them and offers her 3 small ones.

She goes upstairs and Charlie, myself and D14 stay downstairs.

Ruth is upstairs with D16. She's says to D16 that when Charlie dies she can come back and take all the plants. She will want then out of the house.
D16 told me this on the drive back. It made her feel sick to her stomach that Ruth considers Charlie gone already and is planning the clean up.

We return upstairs and I see D16 is off.
Then Ruth starts...

"Girls We saw your mom last weekend. Haven't seen her for nearly a year. She was with OM.
They seem so happy ."
D14 and D16 both roll their eyes and motion to me, lets go. I spoke to Ruth before arriving that we are not to talk about OM.

We go into the living room while Charlie lies down for a few minutes. He gets tired fast.

Ruth goes on... " you know, you can call and come here whenever you want. It's not right that it took so long for you to come back."
I guess she doesn't remember our attempts last year and nothing from her.

I got up and motioned the girls to join me to go say goodbye to Charlie.
The girls sat on his bed and held his hand. Said their goodbyes , hugged and kissed him goodbye.

He asked me to stay a moment alone with him.
"Thank you Irish, you can't imagine the joy I feel seeing the girls before I go. You did well with them. They are happy, i feel it. I wish I was half the man you are. I failed my Daughters, you didn't fail yours. Say goodbye to your parents and family. I wish you well"

We left there feeling peace. Saying goodbye was needed. I didn't want the girls to have the regret of not seeing him. We will see how things go in a few weeks we will go back. If he passes then we wish him peace.

today the girls get an email from XW.

Hi my baby girls, I heard you went to see my dad. He loves you so much and was sad he hadn't had any news from you in a long while. You know you can call him whenever you want. Your dad has his number but in case here it is 555-555-5555

about me, I am in a clinic waiting to have my tooth fixed. Its a dead tooth that my insurance won't cover. So it will be expensive. It's a specialist that insurance doesn't cover so $$$$

I hop you both are doing good. D16, you graduate thais year I will be thinking of you like I always do. D14 I hope your medical condition is solved and everything goes back to normal.

I adore you both
Mom

The girls refused to read it.
I will put it in a folder so if they chose to read iut another day it will be there for them

Hope you are all having a good weekend. Warm weather and sunny skies are upon us. Get out and enjoy the day tomorrow. I will

[job]

Irish,

I am very glad that you and the girls went to see their grandfather. It's very sad when a "family member" writes someone off as gone before their time.

Your xw is still looking for attention. Really, who cares are someone getting dental work unless it's something serious especially when it comes to a mother who has been MIA for such a long time. Maybe she's hoping the Easter Bunny will give her a golden egg to pay for the tooth. Maybe, in her own way, she's letting the girls know that she's not going to be able to give them anything for Easter or maybe she's just selfish and wants attention...but the bottom line...your girls are smart not to read this note.

Irish, you are a good father and I'm proud w/the way that you've been handling your situation.

[leahsue]

Irish,
I just have read your last few posts, and when time allows I hope to go back and read your thread. Just from the little I've read, it's obvious what a good man and father you are, and how you've kept the home fires burning for your daughters. I just wanted to take a second and say my hat is off to you. I have so much admiration for a parent who stays, and even more so if it's a man, because sometimes that home making/nesting stuff doesn't come naturally for a man, so it may take extra effort and motivation. Your rewards someday will be great, probably already are, and karma will be kind to you.

[bttrfly]

Hi Irish xoxoxo

Wow, that Ruth woman is a piece of work, isn't she? So glad you intervened on D16's behalf there. It was good that you brought them and frankly mon ami I think you needed to hear what he had to say to you privately, as one man who has gone through this to another going through it.

Just my take.

Re: the email from eew ... the subtle implication that you wouldn't give the girls the # is not lost on me. She still cannot accept responsibility for her actions here, can she? The BS about the dentist was for your benefit, not the girls. It's as Job has stated. Glad the girls don't want to read it. There is nothing to see there, move it along, as the saying goes.

You've done well to take them. I know it was emotional for all of you but that peace you all felt was also felt by their grandfather, I'm sure.

Good job! xoxoxoxo