A WW? (7)

[JRuss]

lt -- I continue to admire your patience and focus on what matters (your D), but I have no idea how you do it. It seems like your W is trying to make things so miserable that you run away and just give in on her (ridiculous) 95/5 split. If you could get her to 50/50, would you take that deal?

[Dawgs]

Given enough evidence and if he has been doing proper documentation and all, he could get 50/50 or better. Why would he ask her for that? That's what the lawyer is for. It would be a fight and he needs to be prepared for anything/everything from her, but he needs to protect himself. And his family.

[lt0402]

Quick journaling and will respond in am. Need to drag my butt to the gym first thing so have to grab my beauty sleep.

Start the day off with a text conversation with W when I get to work.

Me: "is repair guy coming back out today? Just got a msg he is scheduled to come back"

W: "it was fixed yest. We have a second showing at 12:30 so nobody can come out today"

Me: "Ok."

"I feel really out of the loop on the house. Could you please let me know when we get showings?"

W: "I didn't know until 2 minutes ago. I don't check my messages when I'm sleeping. I don't know any more than you do. "

"I'm not keeping information from you. I don't know what you feel you don't know "

"I haven't gotten any specific feedback other than it looks good. If I did I would forward it. You can read my messages to realtor if you want. "

"For what it's worth, I mentioned three times right in front of you on Monday that we had a showing at 11 yesterday and you had no idea what was going on. The reason you might feel out of the loop is because you don't listen to what's going on right in front of you. This happens all the time and you blame us."

Me: "I see you're frustrated but I am a little bit as well. I don't need to see realtors messages. I'm a bit worried about the lack of information flow from Realtor if this is all we are getting. It seems like we would have gotten more feedback on the open house. Concerned she is not focused on us."

W: "We did get feedback. You were in the car when I got the messages from her. There hasn't been any negative feedback for her to give us. This is exactly how this process works. Not only that but we're getting showings during the week which doesn't usually happen. There were so many people at the open house they extended it. I genuinely don't know what else you want her to be doing she's doing exactly what we need her to do. "

"If you need something specific you need to let me know. Otherwise this is exactly how this works. If we were getting feedback it would be negative so this is actually a good problem to have. They're saying it looks good. I can't give you info I don't have. "

"She told us both we should only be worried if we don't have 10 showings in three weeks. We've had 6 or 7 by day 5 and a second showing today and a successful open house. Seriously if you need something specific from her I need to know so I can ask for it. I'm not going to go to someone who is working her butt off for us and complain for no reason."

Me: "If you are comfortable then I am as well. I don't have the direct link to Realtor friend that you do so I'm not seeing how much back and forth there is."

"It did worry me that we didn't get firm numbers on the amount of people there for the open house. In previous house sale we got those and an estimate of how many neighbors were there. Not important in the scheme of things but seemed like we'd get that feedback."

"It also caught me a bit off guard that I didn't know about the showings on Friday until I asked you. I'd just thought we'd talk on that type of thing."

"End of the day, I trust your judgement on this. It would just help me if there was more dialogue between us on it. If you are comfortable Realtor friend is giving us everything then I'm good on that front."

"Did D make it to school today?"

W: "Yes"

I do feel like I'm not getting information I want from W on the house sale. W is the point person with realtor since it's our Ds friends mom. Also, W has complained about me taking this stuff over before. Leaving it to her, but I feel she at least needs to keep me informed. Much like her driving the rental decision.

That said, I don't like not being in the drivers seat so I'm probably overly on edge bc of that. Fully understand where my angst lies on this.

Weird part is that when I came home W was neutral to me. Odd, as she's been very abrasive at any comment I make as of late. Asked her some questions and got normal conversational answers back. It was not the norm so I took note. Usually, in the past, neutral or even helpful has meant W feels guilty about something. Not sure if that's it but I'm definitely taking note of that as well. Somewhat on guard right now.

D and I had fun hanging out tonight. Laughed a lot at some funny music we found. Rough day at work so the D time was much needed. Suck a quirky and awesome kid!

Off to bed. Thanks all for the support. Will post again tomorrow with some responses!

[CT1118]

I0402 -

I'm still here buddy, but its been some time I must say. Wanted to check on you during a sleepless night. Read your tale for the time I have been out. Found a similarity of you and I:

Me: "I see you're frustrated but I am a little bit as well. I don't need to see realtors messages. I'm a bit worried about the lack of information flow from Realtor if this is all we are getting. It seems like we would have gotten more feedback on the open house. Concerned she is not focused on us."

Sounds like something I said in March of '16. I don't wish to show up out of seemingly nowhere and criticize, but your house will sell, people want to buy houses. Find the balance between not seeming concerned and still being in charge. Don't let her see you have a serious regard for this, after all, she brought this upon you both.

On the up, man I do love your R with the D9. I recall when you first started W was trying to collapse that. As well, the GAL in the gym continues. Way to f-ing go my friend. It0402, I think you are well my friend. I'm not certain if saying "it's good to see you" is truly appropriate here in the DB, but it's good to see you.

[JRuss]

Given enough evidence and if he has been doing proper documentation and all, he could get 50/50 or better. Why would he ask her for that? That's what the lawyer is for. It would be a fight and he needs to be prepared for anything/everything from her, but he needs to protect himself. And his family.

I didn't say he needed to ask her.

[lt0402]

CT, you have no idea how happy it makes me to see you brother! I've poked my nose over in the MLC forum to see if you'd updated but hadn't seen anything recently. Been wondering about you, but already knew that you'd be doing really well. You're a strong dude. Hope things are going well, as you deserve it bud!

Know that your thoughts are always appreciated. Trying to be more open w/ the W when I'm not ok w/ her behavior. Pick my spots to effectively challenge and push back on her. Not in a mean or overly forceful way, but with just enough emphasis to let her know things need to change.

That's not to say that I won't forcefully enforce my boundaries when crossed. Having to do that less frequently as of late, as the months of constant attack have waned recently. W seems to be in some sort of place where she's given up. I find myself worried that she's slipping into some depression and is turning to alcohol every evening to get through it. Just observation of her behavior as it changes during this thing.

With that said, that's why I'm attempting to find places to challenge, as well as support. Letting her make and drive decisions where I previously would have done all the heavy lifting. letting her know that I'm there to assist but she's in the driver's seat. Is it effective or changing anything? Who knows. But it's something different. Yesterday she seemed content and neutral. Who knows why. Wondered if it would carry over to today, but I came home early and it was not to be. D hung out with me from when I got home until bedtime and W stewed and made a couple snooty comments.

I still have hope, but realistically I recognize the long odds of any R. I'm at the point of questioning what the point is in chasing something that's stacked so heavily against me. Haven't yet come up w/ an answer to that one, but my brain churns through it over and over. In the end it comes down to my gut telling me it's not quite time yet. Tough to ignore my head screaming that enough is enough though. Guessing i'll just know when that time is, if W doesn't force it first. Who knows.

Dude, my R w/ my D is leaps and bounds above where it had been at the start of this. She is my world and I'd do anything for her. One of the bright, shining lights to come out of this not so great life experience. That and I feel like I'm a much stronger and well balanced person overall. Almost feel like I should thank my W for that. So happy to see you again amigo, let me know I can help you with anything! Was starting to wonder if you'd gone the way of RSG and moved on from this place. And it does seem very strange to be glad to see a friend back in DB land!

Jeep, yeah, not quite there yet on her actions not affecting me but I'm a hell of a lot better on that front than I was. Was some rough sailing for awhile there.

Kevin, I agree. I think the focus just has to be on making your time w/ the kids as high quality as possible. Offset any potential negative coming from the other camp. Hard to do, but I think if we can do that successfully the kids will massively benefit from it.

JR, appreciate your support as always brother. Knowing we've been in this together has helped a lot, even though it's sucked for both of us. I hope you're doing well w/ where you are right now my friend. That's an interesting question on the 50/50. I've gone down that path in my head too. I don't think I'd be quite ready to toss in the towel yet, even for the 50/50. Not sure what it is that's keeping me in this right now, but my gut is telling me it's not the right time to exit. Rational, I don't know. Just can't put my finger on it. W may force the issue before I'm ready to, but we will see. I don't think it's fear that's keeping me in it, but I could just be fooling myself. Could be that I've tricked myself into thinking something will change. Unsure. W does seem hell bent on making things miserable though. Not as frustrating as it used to be I guess.

Thank you all for your thoughts and support. You are all true friends and are much appreciated!

[lt0402]

Busy day so far. Up early to change a tire on my truck and clean up a couple house things before our showings today. Planted some trees yesterday bc one of the feedback items was a lack of privacy alongside one part of our house. Nothing from W except more complaints. She is a little nicer to me when she needs something but is the same cold person when she does not. W got mad at me for throwing away some used paper towels that were on the floor. (She "doesn't need my help" with things)

Took D to the zoo during the showings. Just her and I. We grab subs on the way home. W complains bread is too hard. Whatever.

D then has a friend come over. I ask W if she'd gotten D something she'd asked for for her birthday. W tells me she told me that weeks ago and like always I don't listen. Did not push back there, but I know she never told me that. Barely talks to me now.

Then W tells me that I can't just make plans without discussing with her. (D asked me to take her to a park and a botanical fardens tomorrow morning and afternoon to hunt Pokémon). That it's not healthy for me to be Ds playmate. That it goes for both W and I. That D should be out playing with friends. That I make plans without knowing what else is going on. W says me spending as much time as I do with D is not good for her independence. She then adds that it's not good for me. She uses herself as the example of not spending too much time with D. She says that I'm missing that D is not happy with me. I tell her that D and i can manage our R and we talk about and fix things when they happen. W says that's not the case and D is hiding it from me.

She then adds that the dynamic with the 3 of us in the room is not healthy for D. I tell W that the dynamic is not from D and I, it's from her. W stumbles, says she knows and that doesn't matter, and says I'm missing the point, as always, then goes quiet.

I tell her that I will work on finding a better balance of my time and Ds. I then say if she can work on the dynamic then the three of us in the room at the same time would be better. W says there is no way she can stop being angry at me, ever. That's just not going to happen.

Now I'm sitting here posting this while being 5 feet from W in the family room. It's surreal. D and friend just came down to show me memes they made on the iPad. Everything here is normal, except for my W. I don't know why she keeps trying to play it off that it's me.

Still grinding...

[DonH]

It is just so hard to figure out he true dynamic of what may be going on. If I were to expierence it first hand I'm near certain I coukd be of more help. But I'm not so all I can do is offer what I see as possibilities.

It seems like there has been a long run of you not listening to your wife. Would you agree with that? You havevbrought that up,a lot where W claims to have told you something but you forgot or you said you'd do something but later forgot. That seems to be an area to work on

That said I have to wonder if your only chance here is to completely disengage. Don't try to do ANYTHING "nice" for her as she will only complain about it. That little interaction of throwing away something she left on the floor screams of this. I know it's really hard to go dark while in the same house but it seems clear W is very irritated if you try - try anything or even believe that this can be fixed. I have to wonder if you dropped all interaction if she would not come to you. Stop chasing the dog - to quote from the DR book.

I would not let her get way with this crap with D. I've brought that up in the past. W is clearly trying to use D to substantiate HER issues. She says how D does not want to spend time with you when it's really W that does not. Keep doing what you are doing with D. If W wants to be on the outside while you and D do things, so be it. She will soon see this has backfired on her

The best you can do from what I can see is to drop the rope and let W be. Don't ask her to do things, don't try to help her, don't just don't engage. If you can do this I have to bet you will see some change in your W. Whatever you want, she wants the opposite - therefore if you want to be far away from her and do nothing with her, what is W likely to want then - yep, The opposite. I think it's worth a try.

[25yearsmlc]

I agree with Don.

Drop the rope with wife. But I noticed that you assume she feels guilty when she's nice (most around here assume that lashing out is from guilt, but anyhow)

don't put her in a no win so that civility or kindness are due to evil motives and abrasive rudeness is b/c...why? B/c things are good??

As for the relationship you have with your d, your w can stay in her sandbox and you stay in yours. it's over the line for her to say that crap. Obviously it's good for d to have friends over (is your d somehow socially isolated? Home schooled? What??)

zbut I've never heard of a father daughter being close, described as a bad thing. ...unless a mother envies it. Which is really unbecoming.

I don't know the situation enough to know how dirty your wife might play, (allegations of horrible things) but your d is 9 and I assume can speak for herself, absent some developmental delay.

Sheesh...talk about boundaries.

Oh, and listen better to your w. I'd write things she says, on paper IN FRONT OF HER.

And maybe ask her for more clarity ?? (Or fewer snide remarks as they seem to attach to every answer she gives you. Makes it harder to remember the substance if you're too busy defending yourself.)

That's all I have for now and no, I don't know all of your situation. Just this part of the thread...

(and I just saw Don H posting and had to read up!)

More later...

[Dawgs]

^ This.