My wife left me and wants an amicable divorce. From what I can tell...the changes started beginning around November December when she was promoted in her job. It wasn't a huge promotion...but what it did was decrease our time together from a few weeknights and two weekend days down to no weeknights and one and a half weekend days. Christmas and New Years seemed ok to me but then she was sick for most of January with the flu. So if she was acting any differently I wouldn't have noticed it was anything serious. Around mid January we got into an argument because I had expressed interest in living in Japan for a few months to a year with her. This was the catalyst that started the downfall. This is something that I've mentioned for years and it was never a problem until now. "We just seem to want different things." She claims. A few days of that fight lead her to apologize and say "when the time comes we'll decide that together." I was content with that and it went away. Suddenly she had a bit of a breakdown BECAUSE the problem just went away. I had said it was resolved. What more is there to talk about? Another day of arguing and she came home from work and told me that she was going to spend some time at a friend's house because "all we did was fight"...which we didn't really. In the 7 years of knowing her and the almost 3 years of marriage...we argued maybe a handful of times. The rest was smiles and happiness and plans for the future etc. Asking her what was wrong only got the response of "I don't know. I'm just not happy." When I asked what she wanted "I don't know". Her answer to it was that she "just needed time alone to fix herself." My reaction to that was "no...you don't just walk away from a marriage when things get hard. That's not what you signed up for and it's not fair." She pulled away even harder. The only criticisms that I got from her is that she felt like she did all the housework which is partially true due to the fact that years ago she had worked a seasonal job and I made the comment that if she's going to be off for 5 months at a time...coming home to her watching a season of anime with the house a disaster was kind of shitty. So she took on a majority of the household chores. The PROBLEM was that when she switched jobs...she never made any protest about doing the housework so it just didn't occur to us to divide the work evenly which I never would've opposed to. Her comment was that she "felt like my mother cleaning up every day". I can completely understand that. After she had decided to leave and spend a few days at the hotel she worked at she decided to come home for the weekend. The weekend of February 11-12. We had a decent half day on Saturday and Sunday we were snowed in and watched movies all day. Separate sides of the couch. If I touched her leg or rubbed her back...she didn't pull away...but she didn't seek it out or want to cuddle like she used to. At the end of Sunday I attempted to initiate sex and was shot down. "Not feeling good...not in the mood." Etc. that's been the excuse now since December. Later on that night...grief and frustration had overcome me and I suggested to her that maybe she should go and live with her parents for a while until she got out of this funk. My hope had been that she would receive some decent guidance from her very rational parents and realize that's she's being silly about this [censored]. This backfired. She got upset. Packed most of her clothing and left the next morning to check back into her hotel. Not what I was hoping. The next day I spoke to her mom and when I said I want to fix this...she insisted that I call her and tell her to come home. I did...she seemed happy that I asked but then said "well I already paid for it ...I might as well stay a night or two."...I said fine. She then invited me over where we hung out in the room in our pajamas...snuggled and watched TV. This was the very last time we were physical in any way. At the end of the night I kissed her goodbye and we said I love you to each other and went home. Tuesday Valentine's Day. We spoke briefly on the phone during the day but she worked late so I didn't get to see her. Wednesday and Thursday the phone calls became less enthusiastic. Friday I asked her..."so...are you coming home tonight or tomorrow?" She said "no. I'm not sure what I'm doing yet" I had planned a short trip since we were both off 2 days in a row which never happens. She goes home to her parents house. Sunday she calls me and tells me that she thinks we should separate. I said to her "we ARE separated. You haven't been home in a while. What does this mean? You want a divorce?" She hesitated and said "yes". That was the moment that my life crashed. I asked why...what about therapy. We haven't even tried to fix this. She said no to therapy. I wept on the phone with her and eventually hung up because her tone was cold and distant. She was just a different person. I still had no real reason as to why she "just wasn't happy anymore." We were making future plans up until a couple of months ago. I spoke to her mom later that Sunday and asked her why she didn't give it a shot. My wife called me back and said that she'll find a therapist and we'll go. Ok...so at least she wanted to fix it. (Or so I thought). The next day she sent me the info. March 5th and the address for the therapist. We didn't speak after that for a week. I've been pretty good at giving her space so far. Saturday comes and still a week before the therapy session...i texted her and asked her if she wanted to get a cup of coffee. Her response..."no I think we shouldn't speak until the session. I don't want to do more damage by bringing things up. I'm gathering my thoughts together and we'll speak next week." This gave me hope. I was excited to hear that she was ready to open up and fix this. We didn't speak for the following week. Sunday the 5th comes along. I walk into the waiting room and hand her some flowers and the heart shaped cookie that I saved for her from Valentine's Day. She barely looked at me and took them. The waiting room was awkward and cold. We spoke but about nothing. When we got into the session she made me start which was weird because I honestly didn't know what to say. I wanted to hear HER speak. 10-15 minutes into the very lame session...the therapist asks me "what do you want?" I said I want her to come home so we can learn how to productively communicate better. Then he asked her. Coldly..."I still want a divorce." This was her feel the whole time. She didn't want to be here. She wasn't ready to open up. And the whole thing was her way of trying to make it clear to me. The woman that I caved in for for everything....getting married...wanting kids...I caved to her on every demand...was now cold as ice. When we left the office...I sat on the steps and sobbed harder than I ever have in my life. She watched me for a minute but then sat next to me and put her arm around me. She said that she'd help me to my car. We embraced for what seemed like 10 minutes while I cried. She walked me to my car and I left. This was the hardest day I have ever experienced in my entire life. I came home to an empty house...it was spotless because I was sure that she was coming home. I wanted her to come home to a clean house. We didn't speak again for a week. Weekend of march 11-12 she said that she was going to come down with her parents to get most of her things. I sat at the dining room table with my father in law while she and her mom packed her stuff. Her parents were not happy that this was ending. We all get along really well and they love me. Her father and I even took turns just getting choked up about it. At the end they went to the car and she sat down at the table with me. I told her to remember that it was "never too late to fix things". She didn't really respond. She just said that she thinks we should just get this over with as quickly as possible. When I suggested "but what if we have a change of heart down the line?" Her response quickly was "so we'll deal with that when the time comes...but right now I think we should just do this quickly and amicably." When she got up...we hugged and I said "I love you"...she didn't say it back of course...and she left. I cried for hours. The book "The Divorce Remedy" arrived in my mail that day. I had ordered it a few days earlier. Thursday March 16th she texted me and said "do you want to meet up for coffee so we can discuss things?" ...meaning how we're going to split up the money. I waited a few hours before responding. "I might not be around...I'll let you know" I was around. I had nothing going on but I still felt the need to make her wonder a little. All this time that had gone by...I dropped 20 lbs. I've been eating better and getting somewhat in shape. I wasn't fat but I had a gut. Having had relationships end in the past...I had a small grasp of how to act and take care of yourself. Which is why I used a lot of energy not pursuing her.
Saturday march 18th. Coffee turned into breakfast at our favorite diner. I was a few chapters into the book by now so I had an idea of how to portray myself. The day before I specifically took a free boxing class nearby so that I had something to 'show off.' Breakfast went well. She complimented my new jacket. Noticed my weight loss. And we both seemed positive. We spoke about the money very briefly but didn't really go into details. She said that she was looking for a place nearby to rent. Which I ignored at first but it came up again so I couldn't ignore it twice. We laughed a few times about various things. When she mentioned that she didn't want to push me out of her life...i responded with..."we're not gonna be friends." After we ate we lingered with our coffee for like an hour and that's when I knew that I had to be the one to end the day. I said "alrighty...let me go pay"...and we got up and left. At the car she came in for a hug...she got a one armed hug from me and she went in full. I pulled away after my own 3 second rule and went to get in my car. I didn't tell her that I loved her. She lingered near the back of my car and gave me a half smile smirk which I'm not sure if it was a semi sad goodbye smile...or an "I feel bad for you" smile. We haven't spoke this week. Just a text to let me know that she emailed me some tax stuff to be submitted. No further communication. Sorry that this was so long. Hope at least some of you make it to the end. I don't know what to do next.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Sorry you're in this situation, it's awful. Sounds like you've been handling it well so far. In terms of what to do next, I think more of what you have been doing which is focusing on yourself and your well-being and giving her space.
A couple tips -- I would stop talking to her parents. Those are her parents and she probably needs them herself while she goes through this difficult time. Eventually she will resent you for meddling with them so best to avoid that.
Secondly its often difficult to know how to act and what to say with a person in this situation. Your best bet is "friendly coworker". Treat her as you would a co-worker who seems nice but you don't know that well. You would be pleasant and polite, you'd do something within a reasonable time if asked, but you certainly wouldn't go out of your way to do anything for them, you wouldn't try to impress them, and you wouldn't share anything personal about what you're doing or how you're feeling.
If you treat her as you would a friendly coworker, that's your very best bet for now.
How else can we help?
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
I would stop talking to her parents. Those are her parents and she probably needs them herself while she goes through this difficult time. Eventually she will resent you for meddling with them so best to avoid that.
^This. If she hasn't already started to resent you, then its coming. And that resentment will lead to pushing her that much further away.
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If you treat her as you would a friendly coworker, that's your very best bet for now.
Very, very well said. Or maybe not even a "friendly" one, just a co-worker. I like this.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
well...the problem with that is...i'm actually in a band with her father. so while i haven't spoken to them since last sunday and i've stopped calling them for advice...eventually i'm going to have to be up at her parents house in a rehearsal setting.
I don't think it is actually bothering her in that way though. she seemed more concerned that I would consider leaving the band more than me speaking to her parents any longer.
it seems like the resentment stage ended after the first and very lame therapist session. now it's like a guilt...or i don't know what to call it. "sad eyes syndrome" from her. i know that's not a term...but it's just what i get from her. "sad eyes"...whether it's from "i wish this could work"...or "i'm sorry i did this to you". it's the same look.
Let me ask you this - you are in a band with her father. How were his interactions with you when asking for advice? Remember the old adage - blood is always thicker than water.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
her parents are very religious and traditional. divorce is just not in their vocabulary...and to be completely honest....they have SUPPORTED her...but they're not really siding with her. they of course would never say that out loud. but you can tell that he was generally in the dark about most of this because she's barely opened up to them either. he's said time and time again that he "hopes she just snaps out of this and comes back". he can't really understand what went so badly that it couldn't be worked out. her mom is basically the same way. they love me and i love them. they're the most amazing in-laws i could've hoped for. their love for her and their welcoming to me was one of the main reasons why i said that I didn't want to lose her and i had to marry her.
since we've met...she's had one speed...and that's "overjoyed". she's the happiest and most ridiculously positive and smiley person you'll ever meet. so nobody can really get a grasp of what she's feeling because since we started dating when she was 19 and i was 29...and i had been through all these crazy up and down relationships... i had developed the tools to deal with conflict. she hadn't. the second she said "oh my god..i'm not happy"...she bailed because in her eyes she had no idea that you could recover from that. i've been unhappy before..but i talk about my feelings and those thoughts eventually level out.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
oh i have Divorce Remedy. it's amazing so far...i'm about halfway through. never been much of a reader due to my horrendous attention span...but i've given it the same amount of dedication as the last Harry Potter book got. lol
seriously though...this book speaks to me in such a way. I haven't told her about it at all of course. it's my weapon...same as with this site. i'm very good at playing a part if i have to. i know it's a fine line between honesty and slight manipulation...but like Michelle says...everything can kind of be considered manipulation. i'm acting a certain way to get her to react a certain way.
i cry every day when i get home from work. it's my ritual. i lay down on my bed with my cat and sob for like an hour while he headbutts me and then i go on with my night. i've even started a youtube vlog which i have yet to mention anything about my situation because i know she is subscribed to my channel. i don't want her to see me hurting like this.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
of course i did at first...but she's honestly a really terrible liar and i don't think she'd be able to hold it in for this long.
her mom also insists that there was/is nobody...so i dropped that thought pretty early. it's always looming over my head...and as much as my friends around me say it...i really don't think there is. we can't even keep christmas gifts a secret. we end up exchanging pretty much when we're both done. ..even if it's november. lol
I need to start by saying you are doing well. Really. I'm impressed with how fast you are grasping the DB concepts even when they feel a little counter intuitive.
Originally Posted By: JasonWe
her parents are very religious and traditional. divorce is just not in their vocabulary...and to be completely honest....they have SUPPORTED her...but they're not really siding with her. they of course would never say that out loud. but you can tell that he was generally in the dark about most of this because she's barely opened up to them either. he's said time and time again that he "hopes she just snaps out of this and comes back". he can't really understand what went so badly that it couldn't be worked out. her mom is basically the same way. they love me and i love them. they're the most amazing in-laws i could've hoped for. this^^ is such a blessing. You sound grateful for it so I won't belabor the point.
their love for her and their welcoming to me was one of the main reasons why i said that I didn't want to lose her and i had to marry her. Hmm, I don't really get that and that's^^ a little unclear to me but, whatever...
since we've met...she's had one speed...and that's "overjoyed". she's the happiest and most ridiculously positive and smiley person you'll ever meet. so nobody can really get a grasp of what she's feeling because since we started dating when she was 19 and i was 29...and i had been through all these crazy up and down relationships... i had developed the tools to deal with conflict. she hadn't. well it's a 2 person dynamic in a marriage. So whether you are "great" at conflict resolution and she $uck$, it ends up not working.
And you are all you can work on.
the second she said "oh my god..i'm not happy"...she bailed because in her eyes she had no idea that you could recover from that. i've been unhappy before..but i talk about my feelings and those thoughts eventually level out.
A LOT of folks believe m is an all ("GREAT!!") or nothing ("HORRIBLE/MUST EXIT!") scenario.
If her parents didn't work out conflicts well OR in front of her (i'm not blaming them) then she may have only seen the GREAT times and literally doesn't know how to do the rest.
OR the Japan thing was a bigger deal for her.' Did you say she married you when you were 29 & she was only 19? That's very young. Especially if she lead a sheltered life before then.
And you did NOT want kids? You did NOT want to get married?
I say this^^ you say you "caved to her on everything", but it sounds as if you wanted to marry her, & since you have dated a lot more than she has, you were not giving up your youth, she was.
As for kids...well, there aren't any. So what do you mean by saying you "caved to her"? I'm not bringing up the housework issue and how she felt like your mother. Was it really only housework that made her feel that way? What was the ulitmate plan for kids? Was the Japan trip a delay for children?
(Good job making sure the house is spotless, btw).
Also, how did her parents resolve conflicts?
So, try to dig deeper about whatever you can work on - that fits in your sandbox. Meaning, the things you want to work on, in you which MAY be things that concern her. This is for you, but it may also help with the m.
This way we can try to help you in the event of her turning her head to look. Which I believe will happen, regardless of what else is going on with her. I mean that.
She's young and my guess is she's revisiting the whole "I married already!!??" issue.
I married at 21 after meeting my h freshman year of college. I had a LOT of second thoughts about marrying so young, (and I was in love with h!) Youth is youth.
BTW, I think her desire to end things quickly is partly b/c she's in a hurry to figure things out and YET to considers crossing the bridge back to you, b/c of later regrets, is telling.
It's as if she wants a period of freedom but still to know you are an option. In time, that will probably have to change. But if there are things you are not yet seeing, that you may want to change, I might hesitate before going dark.
When you two did fight, (OR when you got your way after a disagreement) - what did she behave like, later?
Did you feel that without a threat from her to leave, that you may have dominated too much? I'm not bashing you for it, b/c it happens. Plus The age difference may lead to that...
still, it can eat away at her self esteem AND OR help build up resentments. IF she's got no way of expressing anger or hurt feelings, sometimes the only way those can be expressed is by repressing and then...bolting.
I read somewhere that the most likely spouses to remarry are those who married young. She was young.
Just a thought.
Hang in there and gird yourself for some weird sad times.
Hey, Can you go ahead and go to Japan for a short time? That would give her space, help you detach AND cross an item off your bucket list.
I'm spitballing here, but thought I'd throw that out.
Jason, you have a lot of things going in your favor. Have faith.
And a more patience than you knew existed...
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Just remember the butterfly analogy. Keep your hand open and provide a safe space for when the butterfly decides to land again...
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
Did you say she married you when you were 29 & she was only 19?
That's very young. Especially if she lead a sheltered life before then.
no..we met when she was 19 and i was 29. we married several years later when she was 24 in 2014. she PUSHED for married almost months into our relationship. i put it off for long enough that I "knew" that heartbreak wouldn't be an issue. i don't handle it well.
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And you did NOT want kids? You did NOT want to get married?
I knew i wanted kids...i just didn't want to HAVE them lol. not until we started trying...then i really wanted them. again it was something that she pushed for very early on. i just wasn't ready for it until i said...alright..this is forever.
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Was the Japan trip a delay for children?
I wouldn't have thought it would be. I even thought it would be amazing to raise kids in another country...or at least for a year or so. i had brought this up since we met...just suddenly it appeared as a "we want different things" type issue. so i almost don't think it was the real reason...just an excuse to blow things up.
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Also, how did her parents resolve conflicts?
I don't really know.. i've never seen them fight. they're very young acting and while they seem different on the surface...have a lot in common. i'm very much like her father i guess...which is why we get along so well.
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She's young and my guess is she's revisiting the whole "I married already!!??" issue.
this feels painfully accurate.
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It's as if she wants a period of freedom but still to know you are an option. In time, that will probably have to change. But if there are things you are not yet seeing, that you may want to change, I might hesitate before going dark.
i don't understand. are you saying that i SHOULD be in more contact with her? :-\
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When you two did fight, (OR when you got your way after a disagreement) - what did she behave like, later?
our fights were never about anything important..or so it seemed at the time. so we would argue for a few minutes and then get over it. i come from a family where my parents DID fight a lot...but then 30 minutes later it would be.."ok what's for dinner". no grudges. generally if we argued...i'd end it by tickling her and trying to meet in between. she'd get mad that i wouldn't let her stay mad for too long.
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Did you feel that without a threat from her to leave, that you may have dominated too much? I'm not bashing you for it, b/c it happens. Plus The age difference may lead to that...
i don't think i necessarily dominated...but i might have been a little needy. we have completely opposite schedules.. so when she had time off and decided to spend it with her friends...it made me get needier. her desire to go out to a bar one night was met with an "you're a married woman...why do you need to go to a bar?"...which came off as very "dad" to her. which i totally understand.
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Hey, Can you go ahead and go to Japan for a short time? That would give her space, help you detach AND cross an item off your bucket list.
i don't know if this is possible right now. i'm currently in a job that i probably don't deserve. lol i work in times square and i lucked out even getting it. i've been here for 13 years now and i'd be afraid to leave it due to the chance of not being able to get another one. plus...thanks to the housing market..i don't think i could sell my house for even what i owe on it...and it's a co-op so i can't rent it out. yay. >:[
So...my W also loves and cares deeply for me yet wants an "amicable divorce." My W also did not want to work on things very much -- we had about five weeks of counseling, once a week and didn't get very far partially because the counselor sucked and partially because it was very early for us to actually be getting anywhere with our situation.
Much like you, I find it hard to understand why you would leave a marriage so easily without at least trying to fight for it for a while. I saw a link on reddit a couple months ago about a place in Eastern Europe that puts couples who want a divorce in a room for a week straight and has done so for like two hundred years. Supposedly in that time there has only been one couple to emerge from the room and want a divorce. I can find the link if you're really interested.
Anyways, I wanted to reply to your band situation. I also play and have for a long time. I would love to find myself a band to play with right now and I really understand that feeling of...almost like euphoria when you're playing with a band and everything just grooves and it's perfect. I get it. I also understand the desire to go to Japan -- my wife and I talked about the exact same thing and tried to go there ourselves but couldn't get the transfers with our jobs.
I feel you, I get it. I think you should seriously consider leaving the band. You would have left the band to go to Japan, right? Your FIL will understand. It's gonna suck to not have a musical outlet like that, but I think you should at least give it some serious thought.
I have not talked to my W's family for about five weeks now. My W's family is on my side, but at the end of the day she is their daughter and I am just a guy she brought home eight years ago.
M-32 W-32 (both military) T-8 M-6 PA Oct/Nov 16 (happened twice) Discovered PA 11/30/16 S 12/1/16 MC 12/1/16 - 1/18/17 BD 1/18/17 A continues? 1/24/17 texts resume with W & OM W Filed 3/8/17 W Deploys 7/17
living in japan right now doesn't even really interest me. it was more of something that I knew we both would love. i don't think i'm emotionally prepared right now to do it alone. as far as the band...we're currently on a break right now anyway...with all the stuff going on...we're not taking any current gigs.
i have other bands and commitments that would also keep me from just picking up and leaving. it was never something that i wanted to do right now...it was just something that i hoped for the two of us to do in the future.
i am also under the impression that right now she is researching "uncontested divorce" services. i honestly don't know what this means and am kind of crushed that it's real enough to her that she is pushing for it this quickly. i almost thought it would've been something that she would've put off for a little while.
in new york...how long does something like that take? and how do i react to it if she brings it up? it'd be really hard not to get emotional or resentful if she were to start discussing it with me candidly. :\
20 years ago, My oldest brother left his wife, whom I loved. I don't think he had an OW, (but he was delusional about his dating prospects).
Anyway, I'm still close to my former SIL, and I probably talk to her more than I speak to my brother. I'm not mad at my brother, I think we are fairly close, but I'm just still close to her.
She & I have vacationed together and I really like her "new" h (married for 17 years). So it can happen.
FWIW, fast forward 4-5 years and my brother remarried a kind, smart woman. I like her a lot too. But deep down I know he regrets leaving his first w.
In contrast, I believe with my heart of hearts, that my former SIL is happier now than she ever could have been with my brother. She was the giver in the marriage and he was the taker. She was broken hearted when he wanted out. But now she's content. FWIW, My brother seems chronically melancholic.
I'm not saying it makes me happy to have a sad brother. It doesn't. But I told him at the time that he was "Making the biggest mistake of his life" and it was.
You can maintain some form of R with your in laws but you'll have to let them do the initiating . just let them know you'll always care about them and someday hope to be able to play in the band, & IF they reach out, be sure to show up. Their d is off limits for you bring up, but they'll probably ask you personal questions and you can set boundaries if you need to.
I'm just saying you don't have to lose all of them. Takes time.
It's not that common but it IS possible.
I'm from a big family. At my mom's funeral last summer, every ex was there. Including my sisters' former father in law. (She has maintained a relationship with them and it shows).
It meant a lot to me and my siblings to have so many people who loved our mom show up , even if they didn't work out as a spouse for a sibling.
You still have a lot more going for you than many. Have faith and hang in there.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I doubt that i'll ever totally lose touch with her family...although some of them are hours away and i will likely not see them again unless we get back together. i love her grandfather and aunts and little cousins...and they have welcomed me into their family like i never could've imagined.
last night i had a very particularly hard night. i think when i discovered that she was searching out "uncontested divorce" resources...i had a true realization that she might never come back. i'm aware that it's probably healthy to know that it's a possibility...but i don't think i'm ready to accept it yet. i basically sobbed uncontrollably for about an hour. talking to her to myself. begging her to come back. i still resist the urge to call or text her....but i can't help obsessing over the fact that i wish she would call or text me that wasn't related to splitting up or anything. I wish she would want to go to breakfast every saturday...as i felt like i had as much control as i needed last weekend.
my biggest fear in this method is...at what point is giving her all this space only allowing her the chance to "get over me" easier? could i be doing more damage by NOT speaking to her? what excuses could or should i use to get in touch...or not at all? i'm getting to the very confused and concerned stage of this. not sure if that's a natural progression...but it's here.
I doubt that i'll ever totally lose touch with her family...although some of them are hours away and i will likely not see them again unless we get back together. i love her grandfather and aunts and little cousins...and they have welcomed me into their family like i never could've imagined. You don't have to lose them. Obviously you'll see less of them, and it's up to you to add new people to your life, GAL and or renew your own family relationships so there's not as much of a vacuum.
last night i had a very particularly hard night. i think when i discovered that she was searching out "uncontested divorce" resources...i had a true realization that she might never come back. i'm aware that it's probably healthy to know that it's a possibility...but i don't think i'm ready to accept it yet.
I think it's natural to hold off accepting it. Your timeline needs to be adjusted so you can enlarge it and have more staying power and patience than you think you have.
Your course of action whether you want to give up and be a peace in your new life
versus standing for your marriage, is the same.
When you grasp ^^this, it'll clarify things for you.
i basically sobbed uncontrollably for about an hour. talking to her to myself. begging her to come back. I'm sorry
i still resist the urge to call or text her....but i can't help obsessing over the fact that i wish she would call or text me that wasn't related to splitting up or anything. GAL is the only way I know to help with this^^. You can do the cognitive work and it'll help, but at some point you will need to fill your days and evenings with something other than missing her. Besides, if you THINK about it, you'd be bringing more to the table if you GAL.
And the only chance of her missing you is by you detaching.
I don't know how to detach without GAL.
I wish she would want to go to breakfast every saturday...as i felt like i had as much control as i needed last weekend. my biggest fear in this method is...at what point is giving her all this space only allowing her the chance to "get over me" easier? could i be doing more damage by NOT speaking to her? This^^ is almost always the dilemma we face. However, you have tried this approach to no avail. And while she knows you are emotionally available for her to return to you,
from where I sit, there's more chance of her second guessing herself if she fears losing you.
Your urge is to "Do SOMETHING" but that's b/c you think doing nothing is your only option.
Think about the GAL plan some more...
what excuses could or should i use to get in touch...or not at all? i'm getting to the very confused and concerned stage of this. not sure if that's a natural progression...but it's here.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
last night i had a very particularly hard night. i think when i discovered that she was searching out "uncontested divorce" resources...i had a true realization that she might never come back. i'm aware that it's probably healthy to know that it's a possibility...but i don't think i'm ready to accept it yet.
That's a great realization. The other thing you need to realize is that you don't have to accept it for it to happen. You don't have control over it. The next step is to work on surrendering to the fact that you can't control it.
Believing that you can control how this unfolds is an illusion and trying to drive it will do you more harm in the long run.
Originally Posted By: jasonwe
my biggest fear in this method is...at what point is giving her all this space only allowing her the chance to "get over me" easier?
Never. This is never, ever, ever a problem, and it's the biggest challenge people here face. Contacting her and pursuing her is the same challenge people face if they're trying to quit smoking and sitting in front of a table covered in cigarettes. It's just so easy to do. You know you shouldn't, you know it isn't good for you, but you want to *so badly* that you can convince yourself that it's okay to pursue.
That's what the "my giving her space is allowing her to get over me" argument really is, it's your brain trying to convince you that it's okay to pursue her because that's what you really, really, really want to do.
It won't work, it will make things worse, don't do it.
Originally Posted By: JasonWe
could i be doing more damage by NOT speaking to her?
No. Giving her space will 100% help and pursuing her will 100% hurt.
Originally Posted By: JasonWe
what excuses could or should i use to get in touch...or not at all? i'm getting to the very confused and concerned stage of this. not sure if that's a natural progression...but it's here.
Recognize that you're freaking out and grasping at straws and that's okay. You feel like you're drowning and you're looking for a life line. Don't do it.
The number one challenge with this method is discipline, most people simply lack the self-discipline to do it. If self discipline were easy everyone would be thin and fit.
She wants space, you're being the best partner you can be by giving it to her.
If you ignore what she wants, you're asserting that you know better, you're going to disregard what she's asked for and assert what you want instead. How do you think that will end?
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
JasonWe - Sorry you're in this but this advice from 25 is golden. I'm in detachment mode right now and it takes a lot of courage to do this. Every day is a new opportunity to move forward.
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
[quote=JasonWe] last night i had a very particularly hard night. i think when i discovered that she was searching out "uncontested divorce" resources...i had a true realization that she might never come back. i'm aware that it's probably healthy to know that it's a possibility...but i don't think i'm ready to accept it yet.
I think it's natural to hold off accepting it. Your timeline needs to be adjusted so you can enlarge it and have more staying power and patience than you think you have.
Your course of action whether you want to give up and be a peace in your new life versus standing for your marriage, is the same.
When you grasp ^^this, it'll clarify things for you.
You need time to process all this and do not let it swallow you. This is where GAL is critical. Process your feelings and take steps to move forward. Your best bet is investing time in yourself and making the best JasonWe there is. You may get a D or not, but becoming a better Jason is the best answer regardless of D or no D.
Originally Posted By: JasonWe
my biggest fear in this method is...at what point is giving her all this space only allowing her the chance to "get over me" easier? could i be doing more damage by NOT speaking to her?[/b] This^^ is almost always the dilemma we face. However, you have tried this approach to no avail. And while she knows you are emotionally available for her to return to you, from where I sit, there's more chance of her second guessing herself if she fears losing you.
Back to the concept of what she wants in her new space without you and sorry I have to put it that way. This could not be more spot on from 25. It does not make it any easier to accept detachment and I totally understand. It is hard work detaching, but in the end your W will not have you in the way she currently does.
That space she wants might not be as attractive when she does not have you especially when you detach, GAL, work on yourself and become the best JasonWe there is. The struggle is real my friend, but these are absolute truths during these hard times you're facing.
Be well.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
"Are you available at some point during the day this weekend? So we can get together and go over the details of how this is going to happen."
She seems to be asking about how we're going to be splitting up our money. How do I respond to this? I haven't opened the text yet. Do I ignore it? Tell her I'm out of town? Breakfast a week and a half ago was one thing (which I think I handled myself pretty well)...but I'm not sure how to deal with this. She might want to discuss filing divorce papers. Shouldn't I want to stall this? I can't find anything in the book besides the Last Resort technique which I thought was just letting her be. I've been doing that.
I know we've only had 1 positive encounter...but she hasn't budged an inch it seems.
I want her to reconsider. I don't want a divorce. I just think it's a bit too early to present that to her. Isn't it?
These are things you have to let her do on her own. She has to reconsider and it has to come from her for it to be real. If you try and ask her to do that, she's going to take it as pursuing and run even faster away. No light bulb will turn on.
You've got to improve yourself and continue through the process. Hope this helps.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
I want her to reconsider. I don't want a divorce. I just think it's a bit too early to present that to her. Isn't it?
JasonWe,
If you try to get her to reconsider, she feel like you're pursuing (you are) and she'll head in the opposite direction.
Here's the doodler plan:
1. Protect your money right now or you might find a big hunk of money missing very soon. 2. Respond to your wife and tell her that this weekend won't work because you have plans. 3. Make plans for this weekend to do something totally awesome.
I want her to reconsider. I don't want a divorce. I just think it's a bit too early to present that to her. Isn't it?
In my opinion, if youre free, then go for it. If youre not, then tell her you cant this weekend. I wouldnt stall it just for stalling's sake. A week isnt really going to make a difference in the long haul.
She likely isnt going to turn around this week. Or next week. This is a months-years-long process.
You may be right that now isnt the time to present her what you want. But Id at least be prepared that the discussion is probably going to go that way. Putting your head in the sand and hoping that it wont happen is not going to do you any favors.
I know you dont want a divorce. None of us did when we got here. I want to ask you a very serious question. How would your life change if you were divorced RIGHT NOW? My guess is very little. So what exactly are you fighting against? Instead, choose to fight FOR yourself.
I want to ask you a very serious question. How would your life change if you were divorced RIGHT NOW? My guess is very little. So what exactly are you fighting against? Instead, choose to fight FOR yourself.
Physically my life would not change. She doesn't live here and I never see her.
But emotionally the thought devastates me. I don't think I'll ever be able to sign my name to a piece of paper that officially divorces us. I can fake it it person as much as I need to....but I can't fake my way through something like that.
I want to ask you a very serious question. How would your life change if you were divorced RIGHT NOW? My guess is very little. So what exactly are you fighting against? Instead, choose to fight FOR yourself.
Physically my life would not change. She doesn't live here and I never see her.
But emotionally the thought devastates me. I don't think I'll ever be able to sign my name to a piece of paper that officially divorces us.
So, in one breath you say that your life wont actually change, and in the next one, you say that you wont be able to sign a piece of paper.
Look at that objectively and realize it doesnt make any sense.
You and your wife are divorced RIGHT NOW - the only difference is that you havent reported it to the government. Sure, you need to split some things and finalize the business transaction. But for all intents and purposes, youre already divorced.
Now, that doesnt mean you cant reconcile. But you are fighting so hard against something thats essentially already happened.
The technicality must mean something to her...she still wears her wedding ring for some reason. Being married means more to me than just words or an acknowledgement from the government.
It took a lot of "getting over my past" and overcoming my fear of commitment to give in to her obsession with marriage. I'm not exactly just willing to let it go despite the situation that we find ourselves in right now.
Maybe we're emotionally divorced...but I can't just abandon hope that she'll "come to" on her own before papers are signed.
Once papers are signed...I know that I won't have the same hope that I do now. I think it's the trip down the steep hill...with the divorce papers being the very top. It's harder to stop yourself and climb back up when the momentum takes over.
Once papers are signed...I know that I won't have the same hope that I do now. I think it's the trip down the steep hill...with the divorce papers being the very top. It's harder to stop yourself and climb back up when the momentum takes over.
Jason - Sorry your hurting and totally understand the thought of signing papers being an end. A couple of things:
1) I'm a metal head and love my music. One line from a song that I'm listening to these days is "Hope is a Prison". That hope that you have for your MR will continue to weigh you down. This is where the detachment and GAL are MUSTS. It's for your health, sanity and it will swallow you if you don't control.
2) Divorce Papers are just that papers. I've read sitch's where divorces finalized and then the relationship starts anew. I'm not saying this will happen, but sometimes that is the path. The papers saying you're not married anymore only mean you're not married anymore. You don't file taxes together. You probably can't cover under health insurance. Blah, blah, blah.
I know it's hard to sift through the pain you're feeling to understand this perspective and I've been there. Keep working at it and you can climb back up.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
Perhaps it's her youth or the fact that you are so close to her family, and how you sound here,
but something tells me your story is not over. Maybe I'm missing something or maybe she's leaving something out about her feelings or the marriage (intimacy issues, no chemistry, not earning enough money, etc)...
But if there aren't issues like those^^, then maybe you can trust that the truth^^ will be revealed, in time.
From where I sit, she may "need to be released", she may think she needs to dip her toe in the water of singleness or just want to be on her own and self reliant...
But here is what I know.
When I was dating H, he wanted exclusivity - but I dated other guys more, before choosing to commit.
Why? Because I Began dating h when I was 19. So I wanted to meet other men and at least have some basis of comparison, and fewer regrets about my "lost youth", later.
And here is the good news. I didn't date jerks who "made" h look good by comparison. No, I met nice, interesting young men, cute ones, funny ones, smart, etc. "No abusers and no losers."
Ane yet, on an individual basis none of them could compare well to h . H was smart and funny and in good shape, and we had chemistry...So we married. My point is that I found dating other guys only proved to me that h & I were very well suited.
So If your w is having second thoughts about marrying so young, or a delayed reaction to the reality of committing to so much so early, and "giving up her youth" or whatever she is telling herself
Or if someone else is giving her attention at the same time, I think IN TIME
you'll end up looking like the greenest grass around. Because you are.
She may need to see this^^ for herself and that is hard to do while married. Maybe that's why she continues to wear a ring. Once it's off, she'll be free to jump in the water...and see the truth she'll always wonder about, otherwise.
Of course this^^ is not harmless! It wounds you deeply.
I'm just afraid only time apart will teach her that you are a man only a fool would leave. I don't see her figuring this out with you being too available to her.
It's not as if she said you were an inattentive h, or neglected her, or "never did things" she wanted, etc.
Look, there are guys here in much worse positions. Some poor guys here just got complacent, some were downright mean, or irritable and critical, or controlling, jealous & insecure....
And I feel for those guys b/c they have deep stuff to face and it takes so much bravery and fortitude to meet those challenges...
In your case, with the r's you have with her family and how "amicable" she wants it and the age difference and from what you say here...
I think she is on a journey you are not invited on. But it may be a journey back to you,
and since you are going on your own journey, we can't say for sure where you will be when her journey ends.
Keep the road home, paved and smooth. (Meaning, don't create obstacles in her way back to you. If the time comes for piecing, we can all deal with boundaries and such THEN, and not before).
Be a man of strength and honor. You will never regret that.
GAL so you can detach, so that your time is spent more on meeting new people or doing interesting things, than on missing her. GAL and detachment are for your protection AND for the chances of a recon.
Jason, if your w has fundamentally changed what she wants in life (which can happen to people who marry young)
then GAL only benefits you that much sooner.
And if I'm right, and she stops herself somewhere along the way, to turn and look over her shoulder at you what will she see?
Do you really worry that GAL and developing into the man you were meant to become,
means she'll look at you and say "Oh, no! Jason has an interesting fulfilling life & must therefore NOT want me back. So I won't say a word to anyone..."??
More likely she will say "yikes, looking back, I can really see what a great catch he was. Oh my God, I hope it's not too late."
I'm as certain as I can be about someone I've never met, that pleading & needing are the least likely ways of attracting her back.
Jason, your heart is broken and from what you said here, it's not the first time.
((( I ache for you and yes, I really do get that )))
Trust this process to reveal the man you are. Trust that you deserve to be valued and loved, and in time, you will be.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
i know it's been months since I've responded...but I have taken everything that you've said to heart. here is an update...
there has still been almost zero communication between my wife and I. we last saw each other on April 1st where she wanted to "meet up for coffee to discuss divorce"...which turned into smiles and laughing and catching up...then like 2 minutes of her saying "I want to make this as quickly and as painlessly as possible." we discussed splitting the money briefly..and then I paid and we went our separate ways.
the last communication we had was April 17th when we were texting about our tax return...but that was it.
I've heard nothing since about divorce....nothing since about money....nothing from her parents (who i haven't spoken to or reached out to since March 12th when they came with her to pack her stuff)
this is all so very bizarre. she was in such a hurry and now i've gotten no word on her position. she's not on social media all that much so I have nothing to stalk even if i wanted to. she canceled our netflix...not sure why...i was paying for it anyway lol...but that got reopened because I wasn't done with the new season of MST3K. >:[
here is the part that is upsetting me badly lately....our anniversary is coming up on May 17th. we always went away on our anniversary...i'm getting chills from the lack of contact I have with her. it's one thing to have the feeling of missing your wife or girlfriend which sometimes I feel is the result of rejection almost as much as the physical individual themselves....but I miss being near her just as a person. I feel like we complimented each other in such a way that I've never felt before. i don't believe in fate at all. in fact i'm the least spiritual person you'll ever meet. but as much as i better myself, get a life, be musically creative, start new things and just make myself busier....i still feel like i'm half the person I was when she was even just near me.
I wish we could've celebrated our 3 year marriage anniversary together at our favorite breakfast spot in Ocean City new jersey.:(
That's hard to just have no communication whatsoever. I feel for you. Best of luck getting through the anniversary. If y'all aren't going to do anything, why not you do something for yourself?
All the best.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
do you think that writing her a card or a letter would be a bad idea? it would most certainly reveal to her that I definitely not over this. I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing. i was good for a while...but it's all starting to bother me day to day again.
i mean....don't get me wrong...i think about this every waking second of every day...but it's affecting my mood again.
I'm sorry, I imagine that was quite devastating. Would have been nice had she given you a heads up or asked you to waive the service. You probably know this, but many divorce petitions are dismissed before finalization and I've seen 25 say that something like up to 15% of second marriages are people remarrying.
Obviously you need to talk to your lawyer and figure out your game plan, but this does not have to change anything that you are doing. There are also threads here talking about legal divorce vs. emotional divorce. The legal divorce is really just a piece of paper.
I hope that you are working on your GAL and detaching to help you during this process.
It appears that completely out of nowhere...this is no longer an amicable divorce. Her demands from her lawyer are insane and now I have to hire an attorney to fight it. For no reason at all she has decided to make this ugly. She won't respond to my requests to speak at all.
It looks like this marriage is legitimately done. And for nothing. I'm gonna have to go the abandonment route to see if I can protect some of my money. I was totally willing to give her a large chunk of our savings...but at this point there won't be much left for either of us.
This is no longer a case of getting her back. It's over.
How does someone just one day turn evil on you? I did nothing but give her everything she wanted and loved spending time with her. She has become a completely different person. I don't know her at all. This is insane.
Sorry Jason. It is like a switch. In many ways, I think they all store up the little resentments over the years until that little snowball is an avalanche. Once it starts to fall, it cannot stop until it's done.
Where are you going to be on the other side? That's all you can worry about with yourself and how you are doing with or without your W.
It's a long hard road. Hope you've had an ok day today.
Me 42, Wife 39; Married 16; Together 17; Kids: D13, S10 Wife asks for Divorce: 03/19/13 Reconcile: 07/07/13 Round 2 Starts: 02/19/17 Apartment Life: 04/21/17 PA Confirmed: 05/23/17
Very sorry to hear the news. I've gone through the process and it's no fun. Remember that "her requests" are not really hers. Her lawyer's job is to get the best settlement for her that he possibly can. In most states everything ends up in the same place ultimately, the only difference is what you spend on fighting.
Be strong, take care of yourself, divorce is completely survivable, I'm proof.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
This just keeps going from bad to worse. I offered her directly a settlement to end this without the use of lawyers. I want the money to go directly to her and so that we wouldn't have to sell our house in florida.
I got a call from her father that said..."she'll accept...HER LAWYER is going to contact you to hammer out the details of the settlement."
umm...sorry...talking to HER lawyer directly without my own lawyer present sounds like an absolutely horrible and dangerous idea. am i wrong to think that?
this marriage will never ever be fixed. i've come to terms with the fact that these methods have not helped my situation in any way. it's as over as it'll ever be.
This just keeps going from bad to worse. I offered her directly a settlement to end this without the use of lawyers. I want the money to go directly to her and so that we wouldn't have to sell our house in florida.
I got a call from her father that said..."she'll accept...HER LAWYER is going to contact you to hammer out the details of the settlement."
umm...sorry...talking to HER lawyer directly without my own lawyer present sounds like an absolutely horrible and dangerous idea. am i wrong to think that?
this marriage will never ever be fixed. i've come to terms with the fact that these methods have not helped my situation in any way. it's as over as it'll ever be.
First, seeing the reality of the divorce and or facing it later on, can shake some people up. In California, a third of divorces filed (presumably with lawyers) are never completed.
Second, IF her lawyer directly communicates with you - 1) get your own L to at least review the document
and when you hire a L, make sure it's a family/divorce lawyer, not some guy who advertises for DWI and criminal and blah blah blah oh, AND divorce
AND OR 2) if her L contacts you too soon, (Before you hire your own )
tell her L to send you something in writing and then hire your own. Do not concede anything on the phone or indicate any opinion other than having your own lawyer review it.
IF her L asks about your hiring of a L, you can say you were surprised to hear she had hired him/her,
but "now that she retained you, I have to protect my interests. I'll give your name to my L...thanks. Bye"
Mediation tends to help the higher income earner, btw. (That's why my h wanted it so badly.) But it also lowers over all legal fees.
I'm a L but a nice person and this^^ is not legal advice, obviously. I'm just translating some things for you.
All is not lost, but you'd be crazy to roll over financially/legally. Do not be a jerk either, b/c that is burning bridges,
(my h has been so over the top jerky, all about money and posting "LOVE" messages to his OW openly on FB, that truly I don't think my family would allow me to take him back. Come to think of it, neither would our kids probably).
Point is, keep that in mind when you talk to her or her family. But that's not to be a doormat bc that's not going to help you either.
Hang in there and keep posting no matter what happens.
This place helps.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Sorry to hear that things are getting worse. Wish I could say that things will get better soon. But from what I hear about divorces, it can get crazier. Just know that I'm praying that things do get better. And that a better job opportunity is right around the corner.
