(((HUGS))) Memories... triggers...sadness... May be listening to this CD was a good/painful thing, even if it hurts, it seems it brought you back in the past and helped you to review some events under a different angle. Now you are more aware of them, even if you are mad a yourself it can actually help you to have a better understanding on what's going on in his mind.
Now I am going to give you the advice I have been giving to my kids since they have been very young: Nothing is set in stone. Nothing is done until it's fully done. Take a big breath, use your brain, analyze and come up with a plan. It means even if the situation looks really bad, do not give up.
Don't take his words for what they are, remember MLCers are lost... I know it hurts like hell, but they are just words. Like you I was so hurt when he used to tell me that he didn't regret his A at the beginning, but now I can see it was just part of the whole MLC thing. Now he is the one doing the pursuing... and cannot remember saying those hurtful words... So take a big breath, and think what you can do to keep that door open. I might be wrong but your husband might be from what you are describing in the beginning of the depression/withdrawal phase, so any R talks are totally out of question. Position yourself more as a friend to him rather than a lover, somebody he can talk to when he feels to, that period can last 6 months to 18 months. During that period MLCers are still very touchy, so no talks about the past or R, it makes them going backward. I know how unfair it is, they are the ones hurting us but we are still to have to do the heavy lifting.
It seems that your husband craves words of affirmation and affection, may be you can send him some "friendly only" messages to encourage him to stay in contact with you, apparently you said that "you turned him down and were not affectionate enough".
Keep your messages simple/friendly/warm nothing emotional or negative, keep them very short: Good morning...Going to the museum today/gym...Hope you are doing fine... Have a nice day... Going for a walk with the dogs, do you want to join me.. Pictures of the dogs... Send one message a day for 3 days then stop for 2 days and start again.
You might also if feel comfortable enough, ask him to have lunch/dinner together... or going to an event..
The goal is to keep the door open but not to be too pushy and looking like being a pursuer, this is a very fine line to walk on.
Keep journaling, venting it helps to sort out feelings. Meanwhile, detach+++
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
(((Skm))) hugs to you my dear. I really like the advice and support you are getting. These are some awesome people here! The vets that have survived this journey know what they are talking about--even if it hurts, trust them and give it a try.
I am actually glad you listened to the cd. Sometimes a good old fashioned ugly cry can be so cathartic! And now you can check that off your to-do list and just toss it in the trash. Why? Because it won't serve you anymore. It's like cleaning out a closet--it's hard to throw things away, but it feels good later. Then you can dust off your hands and keep on keeping on. Most importantly, it got you thinking.
You have listed some mistakes you made and things you can change. Good for you! This is a great start. I am working on this too. It's what we are all advising you to do--focus on you, what can you change, how can you do it, and then you can savor in those feelings of confidence. All of this is in YOUR control. As you master this, you will slowly start to detach. You don't have to feel terrible and have regrets--that won't serve you--but you CAN think about how to make those changes moving forward in all your Rs.
As you detach, and as you grow and get stronger, you also increase the odds of attracting him back. So let's start with your list. Can you elaborate on why you did these things and how you can change them moving forward in general, not just relating to him. What 180s and GAL do you want to adopt in your life with or without him?
You are on your way now! One foot in front of the other. Its like weaning from the ventilator with COPD and PNA---there needs to be healing, time, and practice but we will get you extubated eventually!
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
With all due respect, I disagree with skyhigh about the messaging--I think at this point it's time to go dark, no contact, and let him come to you. Then if he does, he can see your changes. He knows how you feel already and anything else looks like pursuing. If he doesn't come around, well then his actions are telling you he's not ready to. He may never. You can't know that right now.
Also, if there is any A still, he is not open to you right now. So keep your focus on you and your changes so you can start to detach a bit! It's time to let go of him and find yourself.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I agree w/BlueWave...go dark. Sending messages of any sort unless it is an absolute emergency or his birthday, could be considered pursuing on his part. He knows you love him, he knows where you are...so sit back, detach and go dark. He needs to pursue you, not the other way around. When he sees you aren't sitting there waiting for him to call or text, that's when his curiosity will get the better of him and he'll contact you. When he does, be friendly, but keep the conversations short and sweet. They can't handle long winded conversations, emails or text messages.
Don't try to rush the process. You're on his time table now and it's a very, very slow one.
I also agree that if he's still in an affair, you are not on his radar. He's all about himself and the ow. Reminding him you are out there w/messages will only make him that more determined to stay away and remain dark w/you.
Pursuing is not pretty, it gives off the feeling of neediness and clinging to someone who doesn't want to be w/you at the moment. Show this man you are a strong, independent woman who can make it on her own. Just remember, the more you push, the harder he's going to pull away and run the other way.
Keep the focus on you and the changes that you are making for yourself. When the time is right he'll contact you...but if he's dark at the moment, then that means he's thinking of something else and doing other things to avoid thinking about you and the situation. Go very dim to the point of dark unless there is an emergency.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Even when my WH was in deep replay, I never closed the door or spewed on him which helped to keep the animosity between us to a relative manageable level, somehow I knew deep down that my words/behavior could be an asset down the road in comparison to OW. The high road was not easy but it made things smoother when piecing started.
I detached, installed boundaries, enforced them and kept the door open. He never left me for the OW1 or OW2, and believe me OW1 was pushing him to leave me and to move away with her, he was totally crazy about her.
The issue with going dark fully might create a sense you don't care anymore, when you don't have kids to stay in contact it is very difficult to create opportunities to show that you have changed or still care.
Being friendly is not pursuing if you do it the right way, it shows that you care but you are still have your own life, it helps also to show him that you are moving on. Remember he left their home almost 18 months ago already... and going dark didn't work at all... so sometimes you need to try something else.
Pursuing is when you beg, cry, try to talk about R or want to talk about the past...
Keeping the door open and being friendly is something else, MlCers are in turmoil and actually they are using OW most of the time as a "soothing tool", so if somehow you can position yourself as a "somebody friendly" it helps them to open to you.
Acts of kindness are very helpful to achieve that (psysara did that and it worked too), when you are not leaving together anymore, the only way to be kind is through "kind/friendly" messages.
I teach teenage boys and I am surrounded by men, and believe me, they crave attention/kindness even if they act tough from the outside and push your buttons as MLCers can do. We are only 35 women among 1100 men/teenage boys.
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
Whew....I have almost completed day #4 of my 5 (12 hour) shifts at work....one more shift to go Hopefully I can hang on.
Not really much going on here. Just trying to keep myself busy.
Thank you Skyhigh, Blu and Job for commenting on my last post. I will say that I honestly do have a hard time with the amount of communication I should initiate with my H. Like Skyhigh said I do not have children so there is really not any need to contact him. I think sometimes that is a blessing and a curse. I would love to have communication with him, but then again I need to not make it seem like I am pursing.
Skyhigh.....thank you as always for saying things to make me feel better. I really do try not to take anything that he says to me too personal. But when he makes comments about how he never thinks about me and he doesn't think about the A or how he treated me, it is hard not to. It's as if our M never existed.
He always wanted me to thank him for doing simple things around the house and I just couldn't do it. I think because I didn't need him to tell me thank you for doing things, so why should I tell him thank you. I see now that me doing that was really important to him and he really needed words of affirmation.
As far as what phase he is in, in regard to MLC, I would have no clue. I can say with certainty that he is continuing to struggle financially as he asked me to make some changes to a bill so that he could "get himself in a better financial position." I also think he is doing things to keep himself busy so that he doesn't have to think about what he has done. I know this man and he has ignored, or just forgotten people in his life that were close to him, and has turned his back on past girlfriends when they were asking him for more of his time. He also turned his back on a family member and never thought anything about it. He has no issues with just walking away, so he will have no problem ignoring me and acting like this never happened.
Blu.....I cried really good after listening to that CD, it was awful. I am realizing things I need to work on and it is a daily thing for me. I just am still having a hard time with him living his life and not wanting anything to do with me.
I was revisiting the conversation we had when he apologized for some things, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that he was still blaming me for things, and insinuating I was doing things when I wasn't. At first I thought he was being sincere when he apologized, but now I think he really did it for his benefit and to make himself feel better, and also so he can say "I said I'm sorry and now I'm moving on." That conversation was all about him. He never asked me how I was doing, nor did he ever validate me or what I was saying. To me it still screamed of selfishness.
As the NP in the ICU, I have to have many difficult conversations with patients and family members. Some of the time I can hear what I am saying and think to myself "you should be telling yourself some of the same things." I guess the saying "easier said then done" is true.
He has told me on several occasions that he is not seeing anyone, and he is not spending time with anyone in that capacity. I told him all I have is his word. But, all I can think about is all those years where I would ask him if there was someone else and he would lie to me and tell me "NO"....hard to really believe what he says anymore.
Job.....We have some mutual friends so I do know that he is going out and spending time doing things, and he is also doing things he would have never done when we were married.
I need to keep re-reading what you said to me.....
"show this man you are a strong, independent woman who can make it on her own. Just remember, the more you push, the harder he's going to pull away and run the other way."
"when the time is right he'll contact you...but if he's dark at the moment, then that means he's thinking of something else and doing other things to avoid thinking about you and the situation."
I remember him telling me once that he knew I was a strong, independent person and that I would be able to handle all of this fine on my own. My fear is that he will keep running and never come back, and I may never hear from him ever again.
This is the man who told me from day one of me finding out about the A that he wanted a divorce. He has not initiated anything in regard to that. How does someone continue to live in this limbo. Sometimes I feel like he is having his cake and eating it too. I sometimes think he hasn't initiated the D because he would rather spend his money on fun things, or things he wants to do like going out having fun, not having any responsibility and running up all kinds of bills and going into debt without ever thinking about what he is doing. I know myself and my patience is wearing thin. I am not sure how much longer I can do this
I am also not sure how much longer I am going to be able to hold my tongue and not lash out at him.
Not really sure why, but I am having quite a bit of anger towards H today. Haven't interacted with him, but I have been doing a lot of thinking about this situation I am in and how he has just not given a SH*T about me at all. I really don't know how much longer I can do this. It is not doing me any good.
I really want to just call him and tell him "please just go file for D" and put me out of my misery
You have to do what the best for you, and only you know deep down how you feel and what you are leaning to. Be very cautious about helping him financially, it's just making his MLC life easier.
Me 52+ WH 57+ Married 20 + Piecing since 2016 (ready to give up...)
Whew....I have almost completed day #4 of my 5 (12 hour) shifts at work....one more shift to go Hopefully I can hang on.
Not really much going on here. Just trying to keep myself busy.
Thank you Skyhigh, Blu and Job for commenting on my last post. I will say that I honestly do have a hard time with the amount of communication I should initiate with my H. Like Skyhigh said I do not have children so there is really not any need to contact him. I think sometimes that is a blessing and a curse. I would love to have communication with him, but then again I need to not make it seem like I am pursing.
Skyhigh.....thank you as always for saying things to make me feel better. I really do try not to take anything that he says to me too personal. But when he makes comments about how he never thinks about me and he doesn't think about the A or how he treated me, it is hard not to. It's as if our M never existed. Give him time and space to learn and see the past without pressure to regret his mistakes. (Not pressure from you, necessarily. But who enjoys feeling like they screwed up?) Most of us try to delay or avoid facing that.
He always wanted me to thank him for doing simple things around the house and I just couldn't do it. Well that is something you probably need to change. My DB coach told me to "applaud loudly for the 1% of positives" my h did. Words of affirmation are h's love language (and physical touch). Most men want to be admired by their spouses.
It mattered a lot to h and it cost me nothing. Plus it will set an example for your h to perhaps do the same for you.
Did you ever read the "Five Love Languages" by Chapman? it's pretty useful.
I think because I didn't need him to tell me thank you for doing things, so why should I tell him thank you. I see now that me doing that was really important to him and he really needed words of affirmation. Maybe You have different love languages. But as you are now realizing, it mattered to him and would have cost you nothing. I know it's a hard lesson, but it's great that you are realizing it. When you do interact, it would not hurt to give him at least one compliment and if it is handled sincerely but without expectation, it can't hurt.
As far as what phase he is in, in regard to MLC, I would have no clue. I can say with certainty that he is continuing to struggle financially as he asked me to make some changes to a bill so that he could "get himself in a better financial position."
I also think he is doing things to keep himself busy so that he doesn't have to think about what he has done. I know this man and he has ignored, or just forgotten people in his life that were close to him, and has turned his back on past girlfriends when they were asking him for more of his time. He also turned his back on a family member and never thought anything about it. He has no issues with just walking away, so he will have no problem ignoring me and acting like this never happened. well, that might happen. It might not. Try not to borrow trouble from tomorrow.
Blu.....I cried really good after listening to that CD, it was awful. I am realizing things I need to work on and it is a daily thing for me. I just am still having a hard time with him living his life and not wanting anything to do with me.
What can you do about that? What if you GAL? Seriously, what if? How could it hurt?
I was revisiting the conversation we had when he apologized for some things, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that he was still blaming me for things, and insinuating I was doing things when I wasn't. At first I thought he was being sincere when he apologized, but now I think he really did it for his benefit and to make himself feel better, and also so he can say "I said I'm sorry and now I'm moving on." That conversation was all about him. He never asked me how I was doing, nor did he ever validate me or what I was saying. To me it still screamed of selfishness. OR he wanted to get something off his chest. Perhaps trying to find a flaw in the conversation helps you to detach...or not.
As the NP in the ICU, I have to have many difficult conversations with patients and family members. Some of the time I can hear what I am saying and think to myself "you should be telling yourself some of the same things." I guess the saying "easier said then done" is true.
Amen!!
He has told me on several occasions that he is not seeing anyone, and he is not spending time with anyone in that capacity. I told him all I have is his word. But, all I can think about is all those years where I would ask him if there was someone else and he would lie to me and tell me "NO"....hard to really believe what he says anymore. Maybe it's best not to ask. Not sure why he's telling you .... Or act as if it's none of your business and maybe even say that you're "not ruling it out" FOR YOU but "you know, whatever."
Job.....We have some mutual friends so I do know that he is going out and spending time doing things, and he is also doing things he would have never done when we were married.
I need to keep re-reading what you said to me.....
"show this man you are a strong, independent woman who can make it on her own. Just remember, the more you push, the harder he's going to pull away and run the other way."
"when the time is right he'll contact you...but if he's dark at the moment, then that means he's thinking of something else and doing other things to avoid thinking about you and the situation."
I remember him telling me once that he knew I was a strong, independent person and that I would be able to handle all of this fine on my own. My fear is that he will keep running and never come back, and I may never hear from him ever again. Yet there is nothing you can do about what he thinks, except to be fine (validating and friendly and strong, etc) if you run into him.
This is the man who told me from day one of me finding out about the A that he wanted a divorce. He has not initiated anything in regard to that. How does someone continue to live in this limbo. Sometimes I feel like he is having his cake and eating it too. How so?
Sometimes the most an LBSer can do, is reduce their pain (contain the damage) and make their new lives into new, good lives in which they find peace and joy. It IS within our control.
I sometimes think he hasn't initiated the D because he would rather spend his money on fun things, or things he wants to do like going out having fun, not having any responsibility and running up all kinds of bills and going into debt without ever thinking about what he is doing. I know myself and my patience is wearing thin. I am not sure how much longer I can do this Is this ^^ putting you at risk, financially? You're allowed to protect yourself.
I am also not sure how much longer I am going to be able to hold my tongue and not lash out at him.
Lashing out and showing HIM your anger, will fuel his negatives. It's just not effective or in your interests. At all. I have never seen a WAS slap their forehead and suddenly realize YOU ARE RIGHT!! They must return, asap...
lashing out just plays right into his narrative...You need to detach to the max.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I spoke with H today as there was a bill he was responsible for that did not get paid s=so a conversation needed to happen.
It was okay. He of course talked about what he was doing, how his battery in his car was dead and he couldn't get to work and stuff like that. I of course told him how sorry I was and that I hope everything was happen to get worked out.
He then asked me if I had made the changes to the bill he asked me to do earlier and I told him that I hadn't and that it was a priority for me at this time. I did say some things that I shouldn't have said like.....I had asked him to do things and never heard any response from him for months and now that he needs me to do something I am supposed to drop everything. Now I realize I shouldn't have said that.
We got disconnected and when I called him back I said "what happened" and he said "I figured you were upset about something and hung up on me." I told him there was no reason for me to do that and he said "I was kidding." I know he was wasn't kidding.
I told him I was thinking about selling the house and he was shocked. I asked him if he was okay with it and he said "well I guess" and then said "I don't live there anymore so" I told him that I am living in limbo and don't know what I am supposed to speak to him about, and how I am supposed to handle things these days. He said he realized that we need to talk about things and asked me if I could speak to him later tonight. I told him that would be fine, and he said he would call me when he was done working around 7pm.
So, needless to say I am a bit scared about what this conversation is going to be about. I of course am thinking the worst.
I know the most important thing is for me to stay calm....that has been an issue for me in the past. I also don't want to become emotional....also another issue for me.
I am tempted to not answer the phone when he calls. But I know that is fear talking.
Hopefully I can hang on.