So Confused and Conflicted (5)

[25yearsmlc]

PART 2

You wrote:


I thought our marriage was fine, and I have to wonder how harmful it was, because I did it throughout our relationship, from day one, and she stayed with me

The fact that she stayed does not mean it didn't bother her. She may have worked hard to lessen the impact it had on her heart and ego, telling herself that a lot of men do it, or she may have seethed with resentment. She may have thought it would eventually not matter as much. But it did matter to her. I don't think she's lying at all.

If nothing else, you must learn this: Just b/c a spouse puts up with something for X amount of time, you cannot count on her staying forever...

You originally mentioned that you struggle with depression and anxiety and that it preceded present day problems in the m. So even when you feel the marriage was happy, you were depressed and had anxiety problems and that you preferred staying home and doing computer programs, over going out or socializing.

Are you getting treated for this? Do you want to? I recall your concerns about your TS clearance. But can you see how that view might be a tad harmful to yourself, and any future relationship b/c you are not addressing some core issues? Plus, who wants to live mostly depressed? What job and security clearance is worth that?

And for the record, I have seen high level professionals in the federal gov get treatment and not have it affect their career paths. I concede it could, but to my knowledge it has only happened rarely and with hospitalizations involved.



for ten years, and she knew about me looking at it very early on. I was honest with her about everything. I wouldn't chance it now. It could have been why I was losing appreciation for my wife and it certainly affected my desire to want to have sex more often. And it very likely made her feel less desired by me.

Okay so, ^^ you just proved the harm. Why argue the point any further?

It obviously did hurt your m. I mean, you deny it and then undermine your denial.

Her happiness was my goal. I thought she was happy. It's hard to be motivated to make someone happier when you think they are happy. I am well aware of the things I did wrong in the marriage, and everyone else here can tell you how much time I've spent blaming myself, as can my family.

I've read your thread, so that is all I know.

What I get here are a lot of reasons why you cannot change. Factors that make it uniquely hard for you. (it's not "easy" for any of us to change, especially when we are so hurt, trust me).

I also see Promises that you "would change --- IF IF IF" she returned.

Many questions about ways to maximize the chances of reconciliation...
And now, blaming her for the situation b/c hey, she had an affair, as if there were no other issues. I'm not defending her affair, but I am not buying your powerless routine, either.

She gave you feedback about why she was unhappy, and all I read from you is why the feedback isn't valid. But your own words prove that a lot of what she said, was valid.


In another post you said you were willing to try something out to combat your overall fears of things in life, but you said then if she came back, you'd stop it.

That is pure tactical planning to obtain your goal, it's not authentic self improvement.

What are you doing to lower your fears and social anxieties? Do you see the cost of those unresolved problems, in and outside your M?

IF you want to show your w real change, then make some, and they will show.

They don't have to be grand gestures, like learning to fly or skydive, to prove you are fighting your fears. Small changes over time, can make a very different trajectory in your life.

Small consistent changes + time = change she can believe in.

More importantly, those changes will reflect your growth.


Let's remember what my wife has done, which would seem to me to be waaaay worse than anything I've done.


Your wife is not here trying to save the m. You are.

We cannot do anything to help her.

If your focus is on what your w has done wrong, then you should get the scorecard out. Give yourself points for not cheating or beating. There. You win.

Except she has her own scorecard. And on hers, you are not the winner. On HER scorecard, she has many many grievances and points, and you have many demerits...that is why I think scorecards are so destructive.

We don't use the same measurement tool and some of us have scorecards that go way farther back than our partner's.


I'm not arguing about what strategy you should employ now to save your m.

I'm not even sure that is the best course of action for you, at this point. I don't think you are ready to reconcile and have a different kind of m, even if she was.

But I do know that blaming her and deflecting from your own path, is the recipe for staying stuck and learning nothing.

For all the pain this ordeal causes, you should get your money's worth in personal growth. Because in reality - that growth is the best "strategy" for you no matter what happens.


I have spent an inordinate amount of time reading my wife's letters outlining her complaints, reading books/websites/etc. about relationships and the differences between men and woman.

Reading is great if it leads to a behavioral change. Can you list 2 specifics?

[Dawgs]

I thought our marriage was fine, and I have to wonder how harmful it was, because I did it throughout our relationship, from day one, and she stayed with me

Why do you think we have said she's been planning on leaving for much longer than you know or are willing to admit? This statement speaks more than volumes. Much more. As 25 and Kaizen said, you're keeping score and repeatedly doing things that she complained of is one reason why she left. She grew tired of your crap. Period. Not much else to say...she complained, yet you kept on. You kept score. You made it her fault. Whatever.

Can you get her back? Honestly? Why would she even want to come back? Can you give us one good reason why she would even consider coming back?

Another thing I have noticed in your posts is that you consider all of us attacking you - was this your mentality in your marriage, too?

I'm not defending her affair, but I am not buying your powerless routine, either.

Interesting point, 25. Wsh - did you play the powerless child in your marriage?

I'm sure that you'll see us as attacking again, but we aren't we are finding that the only route we have is through the 2x4. If it ruffles your feathers, then so be it. But, its not and we wouldn't...not even me.

[WshIKnw]

Let's remember what my wife has done, which would seem to me to be waaaay worse than anything I've done.

How is 'keeping score' helping you?

She is going to do what she's going to do. I continue to recommend you keep your focus squarely on what YOU are doing. What if instead of one OM, it were seven. Does that make iwhat she's doing now even worse? Maybe. Does it change the work you have in front of you? Not really.

So lose the score pad and figure out what YOU need to do.

I only mentioned that because 25 keeps bringing up what I did in the marriage that was wrong. I have spent so much time on that. I've spent so much time blaming myself when everyone is so flabbergasted that I could take my wife back after what she's done. Like, "Why are you blaming yourself so much? She has committed the ultimate sin. You were just being a typical man that hadn't yet learned how to be a good husband. You were behaving the way that came natural to you. You were treating her the way you wanted to be treated, rather than how she needed to be treated, because you didn't know better." When what I did wrong in the marriage becomes the subject for discussion, I feel like I'm going backwards. I'm trying to detach now, and GAL. Don't worry. I will definitely continue learning the woman, because I will never, ever want to repeat this again, with any woman. I feel like the biggest idiot in the world, because of the mistakes I made in the marriage. I don't need help with that. And anyone that has been with me from the start, through this, knows that.

[WshIKnw]

Yes, you should have stopped it. If you somehow don't see that she wanted you to stop, then maybe your IC can help you spot emotions and beliefs in others better.

Wsh, you said you might fall in the autism spectrum somewhere. I have a brother with Aspergers, and I'm familiar with the challenges he faces. He tends not to pick up on social cues if they are emotion based.

He is married and they have a child. I know it's harder for him to know how she feels so his w makes an extra effort to verbalize her exact feelings. But he admits that he has Asperger's and he does make an effort to address it. (I hate to admit this, but I suspect that she'd have left him, otherwise. )

I learned early on, the first year my wife and I were dating, that I had to ask her periodically how happy she was, because otherwise I would be clueless. I learned this after I was completely shocked when she all of a sudden pulled back from me, contemplating breaking up with me. Is it because I might have some autism or because her mantra was "fake it until you make it" (that is, she would hide her feelings)? I don't know. But as I got very comfortable in the marriage, I forgot the importance of me asking her how happy she is, and that made me miss out on opportunities to improve how she felt, because if I thought she was happy, I wasn't very motivated to make her happier, even if she was complaining about things from time to time. I know I screwed up, 25. Why are you harping on what I did wrong? No one else seems to see that as something that needs to be discussed, on this forum, or in my life. Everyone has been telling me to stop blaming myself.

[WshIKnw]

It's so hard to GAL, when your wife was so much of your life, and she leaves you with no friends, and no hobbies that would get me out around people. She has really done a number on me.

[Vanilla]

Wish

If only we had the power to make another happy!

If only she had the power to take away your friends and hobbies.

Both of these choices are our own. Of course environment has an influence on us, it does. Definitely.

If you want friends, hobbies and GAL, that's down to YOU.

That is the good news, the very good news. That it is your choice.

So Wish, what are your goals for all three?

V

[WshIKnw]

I just want my life to go back the way it was, with my fully restored appreciation for my wife, and much greater understanding of things regarding her.

[Vanilla]

I just want my life to go back the way it was, with my fully restored appreciation for my wife, and much greater understanding of things regarding her.

Yes, you may want.

This is a wish. Sadly reality is different.

It can never go back, it can only be now. That time is done and gone.

Thank goodness, why?

It is the route to repeat.

Can you answer my Questions?

Can you enjoy the now, set goals for you for the future you?

Can you GAL?

Can you accept things can never be the same?

It sounds harsh I understand that, it has however the refreshing sunshine after the storm.


V

[WshIKnw]

Are you saying that my wife and I could never have a successful relationship again or that things would never be the same with her? Being the same isn't necessary, and I wouldn't want the dissatisfaction to return, anyway. I'd just want the good part of our relationship back.

[25yearsmlc]

Are you saying that my wife and I could never have a successful relationship again or that things would never be the same with her?

Most spouses who leave their marriage, (regardless of OPs) , will not return to the marriage they left.

So if YOU are not going to change, there is very little hope of a recon, that will last.

What are you doing to increase the chance of her coming back? What are you doing to prepare for a happy life, without her?

Can you see that those^^^ 2 options require similar actions from you?


Being the same isn't necessary, and I wouldn't want the dissatisfaction to return, anyway. I'd just want the good part of our relationship back.

that really is what everyone wants. Wishing and wishing, won't get you there.

What do you think will?