So Confused and Conflicted (5)

[WshIKnw]

Now, the real question that you need to sit down and answer is: why? Why are you fighting so hard to keep someone around that doesn't want to be there?

I'm not. That's the whole point of doing this is to come to a closure so that I can detach. I don't want to pay her what she wants. I don't want her to ask for more, either. On top of this, I just want to make sure that she understands that I believe I can forgive her and we can get past it, without using words like "forgiveness" to avoid forfeiting things legally if she tries to take advantage of my forgiveness, legally. That's why I talk of being able to rewind, instead.

[LITB]

You are misunderstanding what detachment is. Go back to the link provided by Cadet to refresh yourself.

Is it fair to say that you have trouble listening and you are stubborn? That's what I gather in staying current on your sitch.

Get with a lawyer and find out what your rights are. It will be money well spent given your current circumstances. It will help alleviate some of your fears.

When my W started threatening me for more alimony and CS, I contacted my L as soon as our convo was over. When I knew exactly what I was obligated to pay, her threats were empty and it allowed me to operate from a place of knowledge. It helped me stay calm.

[WshIKnw]

I don't understand the backlash. Mentioning to her that I think we can rewind is just a last ditch effort to make sure she knows that I am willing to work on getting past all of it, including infidelity, that I do know about, before signing the papers and making separation complete. After that, it's all about detaching and forgetting about her. The money thing is in the way of that right now. How am I being stubborn and not listening, LITB? By the way, that right there is probably why my wife left me for someone else, but I don't understand how I am doing it right now.

[doodler]

I'm really curious, though, about something you said. The best thing I can do for my marriage is to get a good lawyer? You think me having a good lawyer helps with reconciliation?

WshIKnw,

I did put in parenthesis that the lawyer was to help protect your assets. I don't think the lawyer would help your marriage per se, but if you retain a lawyer it'll probably make your wife sit up and take notice. Right now she probably feels like she has you wrapped around her finger (she does). By taking definitive action (action, not words) to move on with your life, you're showing her that you don't need her in order to continue living your life to the fullest.

Which guy do you think she'll want; the one that wants closure or the one that's moving forward?

[WshIKnw]

Which guy do you think she'll want; the one that wants closure or the one that's moving forward?

What's the difference? I see those two as the same.

[doodler]

What's the difference? I see those two as the same.

The guy that wants closure is dependent on her. The guy that's moving on is not dependent on her.

[Dawgs]

No one's attacking you. The thing is, you are taking what we have to say not as advice but as attacking, which it isn't. From your reactions, you are positively responding only to posts that make you think there is a chance with your wife, which, unfortunately, there isn't - not at this time or in the near future.

You won't get closure. Ever. You'll come to accept it one day. But closure? That doesn't happen, at least not in the way you want it to.

There is no need to ask her any of those questions. None at all.

And, when she comes out swinging you have indicated she will, if you don't have a lawyer, then you'll a lot more than you think. This isn't about marriage anymore. That's done. This is business and it needs to be thought of that way.

Doing little things like talking to her family, asking questions, etc., will do nothing more than push her that much away. Period. Nothing you can say or do will change that.

[MoveFrwd]

I don't understand the backlash.

I think that some of the posters might be frustrated, because weve been through what you are going through, we know the results in doing the things that you want to do, and yet, we cant seem to arm you with the knowledge that you need.

No, dont send that letter. No, dont have that conversation.

I think you should reread the detachment thread (or read it if you havent). Before worrying about closure and moving on and all this other stuff, you need to take back control of your own emotions. Right now, you are still getting bounced all over the place by your W. You point out several times how much you are hurting. Before worrying about your relationship with W, you have to stop the bleeding.

Detachment is what I believe is that state that you can achieve where that spout is turned off. You get to a place where you are emotionally stable. Where highs and lows of your interactions with W dont impact you. Thats done through GAL. By embracing new opportunities to fill your emotional bucket with positivity NOT FROM YOUR W.

All the stuff you are putting in that post above is you trying to get her to fill that bucket. And I guess your thought is that you want to give her one last opportunity to do so, before you are willing to accept those positive feelings from other people. My advice is, instead to first focus on filling your bucket through your GAL activities, and THEN youll be in a much better place where you dont NEED your W to fill your bucket.

Hopefully, that makes sense.

[LITB]

How am I being stubborn and not listening, LITB?

We have continuously offered you advice: GAL, improve yourself, detach, have no expectations, do not send that response......

Rinse, repeat. Changes are for my W....

There is always some justification for your actions. Example: "It's also important to note that my wife and her father are not very close."

We may not know everything that works, but we know what doesn't work. DB'ing is counter-intuitive. It takes time and a lot of effort.

[25yearsmlc]

Thanks for asking, Sandi. I'm mostly in a holding pattern right now. Still trying to better myself. Still getting over my wife and working on detaching.

So, what are you doing that is different from before? I hear a lot of sitting, watching and worrying and a theme of you being in fear.

Even when you know it's something she disliked and felt burdened by and that you want to change

you remain paralyzed.

You have talked yourself out of going to the church she attended with you, even though you told her you were "thinking about it". You talked of getting a motorcycle or flying a plane, to "Overcome" your fears. Those are pretty easy to talk yourself out of, which you did talk yourself out of,

but it's as if there is nothing in between.

If you know you have a problem isolating yourself, and it is a problem according to you and your wife, then do you see how you must DO something different?

not wait till you feel like it, but do it and then maybe you'll feel differently,

It's an outside inside approach. See Sean Achor or Amy Cuddy's TED talks on youtube, about the power of positive thinking and behaving and acting differently.

A "fake it till you make it" approach that has empirical data that shows we CAN

behave differently - and then feel differently

rather than waiting around for the opposite. They are powerful




Watching her, seeing what she's doing. Being lovingly distant.

um, yeah, it's the same behavior. If you want to change b/c it'll make YOUR LIFE HAPPIER, (and coincidentally it'll make you more attractive),

you must DO something new and different to become something new and different. And yes it will be very uncomfortable. But isn't just hoping things turn around, more so?

If it were me, I'd try a new uncomfortable path with the hopes of my own growth, over painful but familiar patterns, any day.

Trying to slowly work my way back into her life.


What are you doing to become the best man you can become?

To become a man only a fool would leave? Those are the truest goals of DBing.

You have repeatedly identified things in you that you want to change.

I've read 90% of your posts and can't think of a single thing you are doing that shows change and or isn't about your w. Stop finding reasons not to change, and start finding reasons not to repeat the same old.

Did you cut your hair? It's a visible change and it's so low risk. But but but... it's new...so, have you?

Have you decided to wait till you have more energy and appetite to gain weight or get physically stronger, or have you chosen to eat better and make yourself exercise?

BTW, I don't "like" exercise, I like how it makes me feel and look. So I do something I don't necessarily enjoy, b/c of the results.

And the results are about how I see them, not for others. Do you get what I mean?


I suspect that things with OM will fizzle out over the next few months, and I want to be there to slowly and carefully woo her back, when it does. Or who knows? Maybe I won't care at some point before then, and she'll be begging me to take her back.

SiGH...this^^ is you only and exclusively contemplating (but not implementing) any changes in YOU for YOU. Heck you are not changing for her either, come to think of it. It screams of passivity and that screams of relational laziness. You don't do anything without a guarantee of a payoff. That is some serious "Stuck ness".


You spend so much time analyzing how to get her back - but do nothing to make it happen and you definitely are not working on yourself for you.

SIDENOTE

I noted that in your early posts you mentioned how things in the m were all fine b/c she "acted happy" but in reality she did tell you a number of times, that she needed more from you.

See, it makes me wonder if you are saying that unless she used the word "divorce" and you believed you could lose her, then her wants for more , were not that important to you. Here are some of your comments at the start & I will highlight the parts that struck me:

she complained about me looking at porn, which I did do some of, but in the past she always would just say "well, I know that all guys do it..."

to me, that ^^ is her talking herself out of making it an issue - b/c you didn't want to stop. You didn't tell us what you said to her, or your reasons for the porn.

So she had to defend you in her mind b/c obviously it hurt her. It can undermine the feelings of being desired by a h, if he looks at porn often. I know men may feel differently but I'm talking as a woman.

The way I read this^^ was that you decided if it hurt her but didn't make her leave you, it would continue- b/c her happiness was not your goal. Keeping her from leaving & having her around, was enough for you.




and that would be that); lack of life skills, like cooking; unreliability/lateness;

she wants you to pull your weight in the home and to work on your social skills? What did you do about these issues? What did you tell her you would do?

she said I was scared of everything (I have issues with anxiety and depression);

so, this^^ is another big red flag to me. Are these issues being addressed? They are not small things


complained that I was sort of mean about her appearance in that I didn't show enough sexual interest in her (I showed a lot, but I can see why she would think it's lacking);

red flags ^^ You "can see why she would think-sexual interest- was lacking".. Other than the porn, you also said things that hurt her feelings about her appearance. Porn and unflattering comments are a deadly combination to a woman's ego. These are significant.

said I was weak physically and mentally and whiny;

We want to feel protected and loved by our spouses. In one survey wives stated that "security" is the number one priority they have for their m's.

We want to feel financially and physically secure. That means we need a h who is strong, physically and mentally. This is especially true if we want to bear their children.

You can say she's just rationalizing things now, but my gut says she mentioned these in some form, earlier.

To me these things to work on are kind of great news b/c the changes she wants in you could be so easily seen. And you want to make them, for you, correct?

Gain weight, get strong, join/volunteer study something or coach a person or a team or visit and travel to a new place. Just do it. Stop stopping yourself from GAL.

You cannot detach without GAL and you cannot make changes in yourself while you keep looking over your shoulder to check on what she is doing or seeing.

she complained that I was spoiled and that it was her fault that she let me be so weak and whiny; she said I was "nickel and diming" her, which I think is kind of a made up complaint mostly (she seemed to only be referring to us agreeing that she do more chores in exchange for me paying a larger share of the bills (we agreed to that, I thought);


Speechless...

complained that I didn't want her to do things that might form a wedge between us; I made easy things hard; she said I didn't want her to think much of herself, which in my opinion is another made up reason to be mad at me (I simply didn't like when she vocally complimented herself or responded to one of my compliments with, "mmmhmmm", like she saying "I know". It hurt my feelings.);


Why would her affirming herself, hurt your feelings? DIG DEEPER.