So Confused and Conflicted (5)

[Dawgs]

These make it sound like you want them on your 'side'. To see you are the 'good guy'. That you want them to maybe talk some sense into her or something? Im not sure.

That's exactly how it reads. Backfire big time.

[WshIKnw]

It just hurts so much not knowing. What does it usually mean when people don't have anything to do with you? It means they are rejecting you. They don't like you. I know that's not what it necessarily means in this case, but it _feels_ like they don't like me and don't give a s--t about me. And that really hurts. It hurts not knowing. And yes, I want to recruit help in waking her up. I want her to suffer for what she is doing. I want people to know what she is doing and make her hurt. And wake her up. She's not just hurting me. She's contributing to that family losing their father/husband.

[MoveFrwd]

It just hurts so much not knowing.

He sent you an email checking on you. Thats more than I would ever expect out of my ex's parents. Id say thats a good enough clue for now.

What does it usually mean when people don't have anything to do with you? It means they are rejecting you. They don't like you.

This is mindreading. And I call BS. Theres plenty of reasons. As you say just below...

I know that's not what it necessarily means in this case, but it _feels_ like they don't like me and don't give a s--t about me. And that really hurts. It hurts not knowing.

So, you see, your mind reading is actually hurting you. How can you better just accept that they are in a no-win situation? They are either going to alienate you or their daughter right now. How can you possibly expect they are going to choose you?

And yes, I want to recruit help in waking her up. I want her to suffer for what she is doing. I want people to know what she is doing and make her hurt. And wake her up. She's not just hurting me. She's contributing to that family losing their father/husband.

She could use help. Thats for sure. But it cant be YOU behind it. All that does is put you and her in opposition.

I urge you to look again at your writing that I bolded. If you are feeling that way, how does that make you a 'good guy'? How is that representing someone she would want to come back to?

[WshIKnw]

Sometimes it's so hard to be the good guy. Because she is hurting me so much.

[MoveFrwd]

Sometimes it's so hard to be the good guy. Because she is hurting me so much.

Yes. It's hard as hell. Thats why we keep pushing you to GAL. Because it gets a lot easier when you arent hurting as much. When you are more detached, you dont feel the pain from her actions nearly as sharply.

[Dawgs]

Sometimes it's so hard to be the good guy. Because she is hurting me so much.

Its very, very hard...I agree.

I could unload holy hell on her but I don't. Why? I don't know.

[WshIKnw]

It's hard to detach as long as I am feeling so slighted. She wants me to pay her a big chunk of money for the house. She doesn't want to pay me a cent on the previous house we lived in that she owns, and I helped her pay for, for 7 years. She wants probably more than the amount of principal she has put in our current house. Which is BS, because:

1. She didn't put that much into the house. I put way more into the house than she did (10's of thousands).
2. She doesn't want to give me anything for the old house, that we have been renting out for 5 years, but I have been helping her pay for for 7, and for the last 4.5 years, I paid 60% on what we had to pay, on all bills (since rent doesn't cover all that we were paying on the house, especially since she paid up by $100 or so each month), including paying for the HOA, which we didn't charge the tenant.
3. The way she ended it with me. She cultivated a friendship with a guy at work, after I have told her a thousand times that that is how romantic feelings can come about. She had an affair, the extent to which I don't entirely know. She has lied left and right about it. She dumped me out of the blue for this guy, two weeks after a fine anniversary and anniversary trip, and her telling me she's so glad she has me. Went ultra cold and hateful towards me, and tried to blame me for everything. Wouldn't hardly take any of the blame. Wouldn't go to MC. Wouldn't give me another chance after waking me up. Wouldn't do anything to wake me up before it was too late. Wouldn't give any ultimatums. Acted happy, when she was dissatisfied. Leaves me less than a month after bomb drop. Said I would be able to date her. Has refused like 90% of the things I have tried to do with her. Said she wouldn't throw in the towel until her Granny died. Granny is still living as far as I am aware. She and her mother tell me I can visit her Granny, which was my Granny as well, for ten years. But every time I have tried to schedule a time, they can't. If I ask how Granny is doing, I get a vague response, and they run away from me. I told MIL that I'm just going to wait for her to give me a good time, and if I don't hear from her, I'll just assume there isn't a good time. Haven't heard from her. It's been at least a month, I'd say. ... W rushed to get all of her things, within about a month of leaving. Wife then rushed to get separation papers done. She has lied about wanting to date other people, yet a--hole is at her house in the evenings and leaves around her bedtime. She has been very secretive since she went cold. Didn't want me to know where she was living. She has treated me like I don't exist since around the time she left. She will at least respond to me sometimes, especially if I say something important, but never hardly contacts me.
4. OM has a wife and 4 kids. The two of them are breaking up each other's marriages, and she is breaking up a family. He is breaking up what was about to become a family.

She does me like this, and now I have to pay her all of this money (10's of thousands)? She abandons me for another man, after cheating on me with an EA at the very least, treats me like I'm Satan all of a sudden, because she just supposedly has an epiphany that I was a terrible husband. "I thought it was me the whole time, but then realized it was you. You were the one causing our problems." And now I have to pay all of this money? I have to keep this house full of all of the memories, while she goes off on her new life in her new house to date her new man. I'm stuck with my guts ripped out on the floor, trying to pick up the pieces, surrounded by memories of what we had. And she wants me to pay all this money to her? She isn't asking anywhere near half of everything, but to me that is very unfair and is a stupid, idiotic law, anyway. If I put in X, I should get back X, if X still exists (not used up assets), especially if I'm the one trying to keep the f---ing marriage going. And she's the one cheating on me and abandoning me.

I'm scared that she will try to get a lot more money, but I'm thinking of doing the following. She really wants this separation I'm sure, so that she can feel free to go on with her life with Mr. Wonderful. So, she might take a lesser amount of money to push this separation through. I am thinking of contacting her to first make sure she understands that I believe we can rewind to a happy time in our marriage, despite whatever could have happened since then. Then, if she continues to voice that she has no interest in that, which is what I expect will happen, I will offer to sign the papers if she goes down to half of what she is asking. She might take it, just to be free from me. They still have to worry about his wife, and worry a lot, unless they have already gotten some nice deal with her, which I doubt it, considering she has 4 kids, and likely is dependent on his income, since she has a degree in archaeology and occupation is just "self employed".

My questions/statements to my wife will be:
1. Are you happy? Are you happy with the way your life is going?
2. Do you ever wish you could rewind to a time when things were good between us?
3. Remember when you said I would never be able to forgive you? (And she followed it with "And I will never be able to forgive you.") What all would I need to forgive you for?
4. I think we can rewind past everything that has happened, and that includes any infidelity.
5. If she continues to say she wants out, we can't get over what has happened, etc., then I will offer to sign the papers if she drops what she is asking by half. That way she can have her freedom from me. She wants her freedom now. How much does she want it?

What do you guys think? The point, again, is to first make sure she understands that I would be willing to try to get past everything that has happened, including cheating, and that I believe we can get past it. Then, if she doesn't care, I will make my offer to her, so that both of us can have closure, and I can start trying to detach. I have to be careful to not say that I forgive her, even though I do forgive her, even though I'm mad sometimes, to avoid legal problems with that.

[doodler]

What do you guys think? The point, again, is to first make sure she understands that I would be willing to try to get past everything that has happened, including cheating, and that I believe we can get past it. Then, if she doesn't care, I will make my offer to her, so that both of us can have closure, and I can start trying to detach. I have to be careful to not say that I forgive her, even though I do forgive her, even though I'm mad sometimes, to avoid legal problems with that.

WshIKnw,

Your wife doesn't care about closure or anything else for that matter. She wants to get as much as she can and move on. The best thing you can do for yourself and your marriage is get a good lawyer (to protect your assets) and get out and GAL (to protect yourself).

[Dawgs]

It's hard to detach as long as I am feeling so slighted

That's anger speaking.

She wants me to pay her a big chunk of money for the house. She doesn't want to pay me a cent on the previous house we lived in that she owns, and I helped her pay for, for 7 years

Get a lawyer stat. This is all business now. Both houses are marital assets and will be divided as such. Even if the other house was in her name before the marriage, marital money paid into it during the time of the marriage means that you are entitled. Ask a lawyer.

Number 1 - 4 are irrelevant. No need to even think about them at all. Remember, this is all a business. Get your ducks in a row because she will...and she will hammer you if you aren't careful.

am thinking of contacting her to first make sure she understands that I believe we can rewind to a happy time in our marriage, despite whatever could have happened since then.

Why? It won't serve your purpose.

My questions/statements to my wife will be

Once again, why? What is your end goal for this? To make her see the light and return to action? Because that's how it reads to me.

1 - If you ask her if she is happy, then you better be prepared for the answer...and she may very well say yes.
2 - Wishing to rewind? Why ask that? The past cant be returned to. Don't even go there. Know what she would say? NO.
3 - Dude, I don't even know what to think about #3.
4 - You can't magically erase the past just as she can't. What you are desperately grasping at is the memory of what she was, not the person she is. She is not that person anymore and never will be. Once again, nothing will be gained by asking this.
5 - If she continues to say she wants out, we can't get over what has happened, etc., then I will offer to sign the papers if she drops what she is asking by half. That way she can have her freedom from me. She wants her freedom now. How much does she want it? Doesn't work that way, my friend.

See, she doesn't think like you...so what you think makes sense, doesn't to her. Be prepared for things you do not want to hear.

I have to be careful to not say that I forgive her, even though I do forgive her, even though I'm mad sometimes, to avoid legal problems with that.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. First, holding stuff in is counterproductive. And then there is the whole forgiveness thing...you are mad, and anger doesn't correlate with forgiveness. Now, the real question that you need to sit down and answer is: why? Why are you fighting so hard to keep someone around that doesn't want to be there?

[WshIKnw]

Your wife doesn't care about closure or anything else for that matter. She wants to get as much as she can and move on. The best thing you can do for yourself and your marriage is get a good lawyer (to protect your assets) and get out and GAL (to protect yourself).

But moving on is closure, right? That's what I mean by "closure". Being able to detach and forget about her. If she changes her mind, by then, I may or may not be able to reattach. She initially at least didn't want as much as she could get, or she would have asked for half of everything, which is way more, unless she is hiding assets I don't know about. I hope that has not changed. I'm really curious, though, about something you said. The best thing I can do for my marriage is to get a good lawyer? You think me having a good lawyer helps with reconciliation?