Letting the Cards Fall

[Kyh]

Links to previous threads

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...987#Post2633987

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...908#Post2668908

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...030#Post2704030

[Kyh]

I'm supposed to sign papers tomorrow so I figured this would be an appropriate title. Time to quit trying to push this boulder up the mountain and dig deeper to work on myself.

I thought I'd treat myself to a massage tonight (something old me would've never done for myself) as I've been stressing over this, but when I was booking it I decided to do my first Reiki session instead. Wow, it was a lot more than I expected, I wish I had been better prepared. I feel more relaxed than I've felt in a really long time. It's nice not to be spinning about tomorrow.

[job]

Kyh,

Thank you for starting a new thread and linking them together.

I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers today. It's never easy to end something, especially a marriage, but at the end of the day, you've tried everything to keep your marriage together. They always say that the divorce decree is nothing more than a piece of paper and reconciliation is always possible. Time will tell if you and your wife get back together (I hope you do, if you still love her.)

I'm also glad you booked your first Reiki session. You need an outlet to release the stress and this is a good way to do so.

Please take care of yourself and your beautiful children.

Thinking of you today.

[SBJ]

You will definitely be in our thoughts and prayers today and tomorrow.

[Gordie]

^^^x2

[bttrfly]

Talk to me! I'm starting my Masters level reiki training next month. Really glad you booked that session. It's a great way to balance and settle your Shen / emotions.

I am sorry it's come to this but I feel as though you are coming to this from a place of strength.

Also you can ask a massage therapist to use CBD on problem areas at your next massage, if you're in one of the states when that is legal. Maybe add some high quality essential oils - sweet birch, spearmint, lavender, frankincense

Keeping you in my thoughts today. Focusing on yourself is the. Best thing you can do in this situation. {{{{{hugs}}}}}

[Kyh]

Thank you all for the support. It really means a lot to me.

Job, I think I will always love her but I don't love this new stranger. I hope the beautiful woman I know is still in there somewhere but realize I can't count on it.

Buttrfly, congrats on starting your training. It was an eye opening experience for me. There was a lot going on, lots of visuals I wasn't expecting. I'm excited for my next appointment.

Today was actually alright, I did better than I thought. I almost got emotional about 2 hours before but let it go as soon as it started. I felt kind of numb to it all when I went to sign. I felt nothing really, no relief, no dread, no sadness, no happiness...nothing. Hopefully nothing comes later.

[ciluzen]

I recognize that numb feeling during signing. How are you today?

For me, I had to meet my L in a small, crowded room at the courthouse while she was giving free D advice to a large, boisterous group of people. I was really just there to sign. Then I went home. There was no weight or gravity to the situation. XH was not there. I'm curious as to how your situation transpired and how you are feeling now. Its not like in the movies, is it? No swell of the soundtrack to create a sense of drama or importance afterwards. I wonder if its the view that D is just a piece of paper for people who "stand".

Reiki sounds interesting. You and Bttrfly have me sold. I'm glad you are doing something for yourself. Massage or any kind of pampering really makes a difference in your sense of well being, doesn't it? It physically and emotionally helps.

Whatever emotions came/come later, let them come. I think its healthier than trying to fight them. And I agree, keep the focus on you. Treat yourself as if you are dating you (I know that sounds strange) often...take yourself out to dinner and a movie, or whatever would be fun or relaxing. Fun with friends is one thing...pushing to find the ability to have fun on your own is another level entirely.

You've got this. (((Kyh)))

[Gordie]

Today was actually alright, I did better than I thought. I almost got emotional about 2 hours before but let it go as soon as it started. I felt kind of numb to it all when I went to sign. I felt nothing really, no relief, no dread, no sadness, no happiness...nothing. Hopefully nothing comes later.

Kyh, it sounds like you did great...hope you did something for yourself afterwards...

[bttrfly]

yeah, it's a strange place to be, where you are at the moment. just allow yourself to feel it all and keep breathing. this too shall pass. I promise {{{{{hugs}}}}}

[Kyh]

Thank you all for checking in on me, it's nice to have such great support from people who get it. I get some support from others but they just don't get the situation. How could they though?

I recognize that numb feeling during signing. How are you today?

For me, I had to meet my L in a small, crowded room at the courthouse while she was giving free D advice to a large, boisterous group of people. I was really just there to sign. Then I went home. There was no weight or gravity to the situation. XH was not there. I'm curious as to how your situation transpired and how you are feeling now. Its not like in the movies, is it? No swell of the soundtrack to create a sense of drama or importance afterwards. I wonder if its the view that D is just a piece of paper for people who "stand".

Reiki sounds interesting. You and Bttrfly have me sold. I'm glad you are doing something for yourself. Massage or any kind of pampering really makes a difference in your sense of well being, doesn't it? It physically and emotionally helps.

Whatever emotions came/come later, let them come. I think its healthier than trying to fight them. And I agree, keep the focus on you. Treat yourself as if you are dating you (I know that sounds strange) often...take yourself out to dinner and a movie, or whatever would be fun or relaxing. Fun with friends is one thing...pushing to find the ability to have fun on your own is another level entirely.

You've got this. (((Kyh)))

Hi Cil, still feeling numb to it today. It's strange I was not expecting the numb feeling. It's actually nice not to be spinning. It all transpired quick, my lawyer's assistant said W agreed to my changes and it was ready to sign. Her office is only a few blocks from me so I went over, read it and signed and was back at my office 20 minutes later. She told me she would let me know once the decree went through the courts so I guess that's it. Funny you mentioned soundtrack because when I went to go over one of my favorite songs came on. I shut the radio off because I didn't want it to be associated with the D in my head.

I like what you said about dating yourself which is something I need to do. I've actually got better at this, I go to lunch alone time to time and have also caught a couple movies alone. I would have never done this in the past. I'm a very introverted person and we hadn't been where I'm at long before BD so I also need to work on gal. The company I work for is in another state and I work alone in my own office so not a lot of interaction. I have a couple college friends here but other than running into each other we've never got together.

Kyh, it sounds like you did great...hope you did something for yourself afterwards...

Hi Gordie, thanks for stopping by. I didn't really do much after but just kept myself busy. Back to work, then took advantage of the nice weather and extra light. I did some yard work and cleaned my car but I am planning on doing something for myself again soon. I ended up selling my last pup last night too so that is good. I'm getting attached to them and they are a lot of extra work I don't need. I'm planning on getting some much needed sleep this weekend.

yeah, it's a strange place to be, where you are at the moment. just allow yourself to feel it all and keep breathing. this too shall pass. I promise {{{{{hugs}}}}}

Thanks Bttrfly, it is a strange place. Never in a million years did I think I'd be here. IDK if this numb feeling is good or not but if feels better than depression and anger. I wonder how much my session the night before had to do with how I'm feeling/processing this.

[bttrfly]

I think you're processing it - numb can sometimes be a way our bodies/minds give us a break while we internalize a deep shift. It's ok, I promise you. You're doing all the right things. I know what you mean. I never in a million years thought I'd be here. But here isn't so bad, actually. There's a lot to recommend it, especially if you're of the opinion that it's better to be alone than with someone who doesn't really want to be committed to you. It doesn't negate the sadness or betrayal or disappointment, but it does let you know that it could be worse. Speaking of worse - we could be the MLCer. Wouldn't want to be in their shoes AT ALL.

so hang in and keep doing what you're doing. Hey I had a thought: why not call your few friends and organize something yourself - poker night or something?

Just a thought.

xoxoxoxo {{{{Kyh}}}}}

[HaWho]

Just wanted to say I'm sorry. I can imagine it is surreal.

You've been given great advice but I just wanted to tell you I am thinking of you.

[Kyh]

Thanks Hawho. Yes it's surreal yet a sense of reality has set in.

Bttrfly, yes I'm going to have to figure something out to get together. That would be good for me.

W's parents came to town yesterday so the kids were w/them today. W texted me early to ask if she could take one of the pups today. Idk why, her parents are taking one but she went to work today (funny she takes every other Saturday off to leave town but works when they come). theirs is the only one left and when she got here this morning she got totally po'd at me because the other one left yesterday. I told her I sold him the day I knew. She was nasty and spinning, telling me how she wanted to say bye. She didn't care for any of the others, telling me she didn't want to see them off. I think she was trying to push buttons. she picked up the kid's swimming stuff and when I told her their life jackets were probably too small now she said she was just going to take them so I wouldn't throw a fit. This is while she was trying to fold up the crate with stuff in it slamming it down because she was mad. I just let her be, didn't apologize but said if I knew you wanted to see him I would have let you know. Didn't bring up that she told me her phone was dead last night or she would've known.

I told her I got a pic of another one I sold a couple weeks before and she asked to see. She told me she got a pic of one too. A little later she sent it to me and it said "here." Nice...I just had to laugh. It seems like I'm doing better at stepping back from things and observing. When she stopped after work she was nicer but I kind of felt some pent up anger, actually maybe it was more disgust, seeing her. I noticed it and let it go but it did take some work. I kind of just wanted her to leave but I was nice.

She's supposed to stop w/her parents tomorrow morning to pick him up. Not excited about that but I am excited to see the kids, otherwise I probably would've been busy and not here.

Keeping busy this weekend, it was beautiful today so I trimmed a few trees and cut a few down in areas that needed thinned then went and hit some golf balls then relaxed.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

[ciluzen]

Kyh,
Its interesting to me as I read your post, but it really doesn't sound like your W is angry with YOU. It sounds as if she is just angry in general. Keep doing what you're doing. Let it roll off of your back. As long as you don't react to her anger and aren't trying to anger her, her moods and reactions are hers to own. You're doing well.

[job]

I agree...your w wasn't angry with you, but at herself and life in general. She knows she's messing up big time and things aren't always working out the way she wants them. She knows that she should have made some time and come to see the pups and she just wanted you to feel guilty for the pup not being there. Don't buy into her misery...that's all hers these days.

Keep up the good work!

[Kyh]

Thank you Cil and Job. i ready his before anyone came by today and I could see it in her actions. I will remember to try not to take it personal. She gets flustered about everything. Someone or something is always making her mad and its guns blazing. Her mom even made a comment about how she was reacting to the kids and to her.

She left for awhile after her parents left and the kids hung out w/me all day then w came back to do laundry this afternoon and was here all night. Tonight she snapped at the kids a few times, it was about them on iPads, shoes, and a dress. They need to listen but she was quick to anger and yell which sets off a cycle, especially w/son. I didn't stop her or say anything about it to her but I did calmly intervene and guided the kids on what needed done.

When her parents and sister that lived w/us came over it was actually a nice visit. I could tell sil was bothered. I'm sure her parents were/are as well, they really liked me.

I was a little shocked she asked to do laundry here. She complained about not having a washer/dryer yet but I just listened and didn't say anything. We had some light conversation, watched a movie w/the kids, and ate dinner while she was here. I guess she's only eating once a day now but at least she gave up the only egg diet quickly. I guess I will keep taking this day to day even though D papers are on their way through the court.

[Gordie]

I guess I will keep taking this day to day even though D papers are on their way through the court.

Has signing the papers changed the way you feel about your situation and what you want?

[Bee29]

Hi Kyh,

I was away for a week and didn't have much access to Internet. I'm really sorry I missed those difficult days of yours!

But I'm happy to see that you seem to be doing fine. It's time to start taking care of yourself and put all the drama behind. You never know what will happen next so it's better to concentrate on the present and do something for yourself, enjoy quality time with the kids and start finding your place in a different settings.

It's great that you went for reiki. I did that a few weeks after separation last year and I must say it helped a lot.

It's almost midnight here and I'm falling asleep but wanted to tell you that I'm thinking of you! I hope all this is for the best and that there are only nice surprises for you in your future.

Take care! And should the numbness go, allow yourself to grieve, if you need to.
Big hug!

[Kyh]

I guess I will keep taking this day to day even though D papers are on their way through the court.

Has signing the papers changed the way you feel about your situation and what you want?

HimGordie,

I've been thinking over your question since yesterday and it's mixed feelings but I want to say no. However, I think there is something different going on in me. Acceptance or detachment maybe. Maybe not, if I found out she was seeing someone right now I'd probably be wrecked. But I am able to step back and see things going on, w/me and w (not just her interactions towards w/me but in general). She's still wallowing in MLC and she still thinks I'm the source of her unhappiness (everyone is soooo cool except me). I still want to save my marriage but I sure don't want her back in the state she's in.

Hi Kyh,

I was away for a week and didn't have much access to Internet. I'm really sorry I missed those difficult days of yours!

But I'm happy to see that you seem to be doing fine. It's time to start taking care of yourself and put all the drama behind. You never know what will happen next so it's better to concentrate on the present and do something for yourself, enjoy quality time with the kids and start finding your place in a different settings.

It's great that you went for reiki. I did that a few weeks after separation last year and I must say it helped a lot.

It's almost midnight here and I'm falling asleep but wanted to tell you that I'm thinking of you! I hope all this is for the best and that there are only nice surprises for you in your future.

Take care! And should the numbness go, allow yourself to grieve, if you need to.
Big hug!

Hi Bee, great to hear from you! I hope you're doing well. You sound like you're doing good too. I hope so. Funny you posted because I had been thinking about pulling up your thread to see how you were. You're right I've had enough drama for this lifetime and I need to shift focus and energy to myself and the kids. It's hard but I'm getting better at it. She was here until later last night again, I was friendly but just let her be, did my own thing and enjoyed the kids.

Thanks for stopping by and the virtual hug. Let us know how you're doing when you have a chance.

I'm still feeling indifferent to the decree. I guess it's the next step in whatever is to be. I do think it's weird w came here to do laundry the last two nights, I couldn't help but wonder if it was a temp check of sorts, I did catch her looking at me once. I didn't give it too much thought though. Watched hockey and scooby doo w/the kids and let her be. We're doing a half week this week to change our schedule so w can take her trip. Can't wait to get them back at the end of the week. I know they're excited too.

[bttrfly]

You are in a very healthy frame of mind i think to keep moving forward. It's very insightful to realize that as she is now is not someone you'd want to spend your life with.

I'm very proud of you for keeping the focus on yourself and the kids.

BTW, FWIW, I think you're very cool !!!

And I'm sure many of us here agree with me!!!!

{{{{{{{Kyh}}}}}}}

xoxoxoxo

[SBJ]

I'm still feeling indifferent to the decree. I guess it's the next step in whatever is to be. I do think it's weird w came here to do laundry the last two nights, I couldn't help but wonder if it was a temp check of sorts, I did catch her looking at me once. I didn't give it too much thought though. Watched hockey and scooby doo w/the kids and let her be. We're doing a half week this week to change our schedule so w can take her trip. Can't wait to get them back at the end of the week. I know they're excited too.

Kyh...I'm trying to put myself in that same mindset of it being the next step. It still feels kind of counter productive for wanting to save your M, but I guess as some have said, the old M is over anyway. I am staring at the pre-decree papers right now making notes on them that I might want to change and this still feels so surreal to me. It feels like I am the one in a fog.

Hope your PMA continues to grow. Stay strong my friend.

[Kyh]

Thanks buttrfly. Still trying to focus on myself and kids but I've had a few triggers I've had to quickly let go before they get me spinning, I hope I'm not stuffing it away to pop out at some later date.

SBJ, I hope it is the next step. Well, it is no matter how things turn out, not in my control. Things have been going nowhere since this fall and w thinks it is what she needs. She forgets how her friends (pre Mlc friends, not her new ones) used to joke about stealing me and that I'm not what/who she's making me out to be. I have no expectations but think sooner or later she will realize the grass is greener where the dogs poop. Idk if I will be around then, sometimes I think I'm getting to where the door is closed but not locked.

W lost her keys Wednesday do I had to go pick the kids up from daycare. She beat around the bush until I asked if she needed a ride to get her spare. She kept apologizing and acting like it was a big deal. I just told her things like this happen and not to worry about it. While driving she vented about work and talked about her trip she leaves for tomorrow. I mostly listened. She was supposed to take the kids today for some time before she left but she never came though. Her loss, what else can I say, it's sad. Thankfully I didn't tell the kids ahead of time so they weren't let down.

[Kyh]

Journaling a bit. Last week was rough but I think I'm letting it go. The week before last was the week W left the kids w/me and peaced out w/OM Combined with my bday, her trip, and kids going back w/her this week I let it get to me and I felt a lot of repressed anger come up. It was hard to deal w/it but for now I'm feeling better for the most part. She also stood the kids up again Sunday, telling them she was going to get them since she had been gone but never did. So frustrating.

Monday was a rough day, W stopped by after work to pick some things up. I was already having those feelings and wasn't going to be here but didn't want to miss the kids so I stayed home. W made them stay in the car and they were upset about it. I went to say hi and had her take the booster seats I just got because she didn't want their others. I told W I smelled antifreeze when I went over to her car and she snapped at me "well if I had money I'd fix it I would." I would feel bad if she weren't running around, leaving every other weekend, concerts, tattoos, etc. I ignored it and when I put the seats in D didn't want to get out of the middle because of the garbage and there was puke in the back. Ugh, so she's driving around in a pukey car and complains of it smelling. She's out of it.

I've done a couple more reiki sessions for myself and they were absolutely nothing like the first but yesterday's helped me feel more relaxed and detached, and to let the anger go.

I've been thinking a lot about W's situation and why she cracked. I feel sorry for her. There is so much to it and I can see it has trickled down generations. For just one aspect, she is the oldest of six and was forced to play mom at a ridiculously young age, making dinners and taking care of siblings in an abusive home. Maybe having our kids was like going back (minus abusive home) to this for her. It's hard, I've been feeling a mix of anger for what she's done and empathy for her.

I still haven't heard back anything about D. IDK if W has signed yet but I'm sure she will.

I contacted an old friend tonight to get together sometime and we are planning on getting together sometime soon. That should help w/GAL.

Trying to work through all this, I had a couple good weeks and then last week. I guess it's normal and things will keep getting better as I move forward.

I hope you're all having a good week and have a good Easter weekend.

[Kyh]

Edit: The week before last was the anniversary week W left

[HaWho]

Sorry you had a rough patch this week.

Honestly, I just can't get over the fact that she's driving around in a car that has vomit in it.

It shouldn't surprise me. Really, who am I to be shocked when my h's bathroom is no better. I think it was last cleaned 1 year ago; seriously. I am too scared to go back in my thread to see. I never go in there, I have instructed the kids not to even open that door and I stuck a post-it on the outside that instructs visitors to use the kids' bathroom. It is much more hygienic as they clean it every week.

MLC is literally and figuratively a messy, messy business. Ick.

[Kyh]

Hi Hawho. Strangely, it was a reminder that this really is a crisis as I sometimes question it after living w/it for so long. I wonder what the kids will think of this later. I've been talking to them a lot about taking care of our things lately.

W tried to get to me Friday night. The kids (and her in the background) were telling me about juice cicles on the phone and we're making it a big thing. I asked them if they made them like we had made pudding pops the weekend before. After talking to them w sent a text about not telling the kids she isn't as good as me and especially when she doesn't have time to do things and how I am disgusted by it, etc. I didn't know what she was talking about at first but then figured it out. I told her sorry she thought that but I don't do or think that of her and since she was calling them juice cicles and it was a big thing I assumed they made them. She sent a lol back w/a short explanation and forgot about it. Not playing those games.

Why didn't anyone tell me it wasn't Easter weekend after my last post lol.:) W brought the kids over Saturday morning and was telling me about her work and a funny story w/D. I told her I was going to dye eggs w/them and asked if she'd like me to wait for her. She said that would be great so we waited for her to get off work. The kids had a good time but after w sat at the table by herself on the phone for an hour or so before leaving. She also critiqued some of the stuff I got (a roller that didn't work) which I just ignored. We didn't hardly talk and it was a little weird but I just hung out w/the kids. As they were leaving I asked how she wanted to do Sunday. We were both confused until she told me today wasn't Easter. We had a good laugh, she wondered why I planned on dying eggs so early.

My parents are Greek Orthodox so usually their Easter is on a different day (they had been talking a lot about it next week) but this year they are the same but I assumed they weren't and thought it had to be today. W and I had another good laugh when I told her why.

Had a good time w/kids yesterday and spent most of the day outside but today was super windy so I got some spring cleaning done and took some stuff to goodwill.

After talking to the kids tonight w texted me funny pictures of the kids she changed w/her phone. I replied w/an inside joke and she replied back w/lol and reference to it. I left it at that, normally I would've texted some more. Idk what to think we've had almost no contact for a couple weeks except last Monday which was ugly. I guess I shouldn't care but I don't want to seem like a jerk and ignore her but don't want to be waiting and available for her either. Hopefully a short reply is the way to go, not ignoring but not wanting to be where she left me. Idk.

[bttrfly]

{{{{{Kyh}}}}}

Something occurred to me as I read your post, Kyh - we all spend so much time trying to figure out the weak link in our lives, aka the MLCer. Think about what we could do with the amount of time spent on trying to figure out someone with a mental illness!

We're never ever going to figure them out, period. We are using logic and they have none at the moment.

I'm not picking on you. Lord knows I turned myself inside out plenty of times trying to please exh or at least avoid making him angry. Gotta keep the peace at all costs was my mantra. Well you know what doll, screw that. You've gotta keep the peace in your heart. Focus on being your authentic self and the rest will follow. You're a very consistent person. Your kids come first. You always try to do the right thing - not hurt your w, not seem like a jerk. Her interpretations of you are always going to be through the prism of MLC, so some days she might really see you and others she might see the person she's made up in her head.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh. You are turning yourself inside out and causing yourself excess stress trying to please someone who cannot be pleased. This is just my opinion. I'm not saying you shouldn't care either. I'm saying take care of you and please yourself first. The rest will follow.

(No idea where all that came from)

xoxoxo

[Kyh]

Hi Bttrfly,

Thank you for the reply, it's not harsh at all. After I typed that last night I thought about how much of it focused on her. I need to turn my focus inward and to the kids and less towards her. I need to keep working on this. Seems like I do food for awhile then it gets to me. It's hard w/so much contact.

[bttrfly]

agreed, the less contact the better. i'm so sensitive that i sometimes feel myself starting to short circuit when he flies back from the west coast. bizarre, but that's the truth. i vibrate at a higher internal rate when he's not around. i'm truly grateful he's a runner. makes it a bit easier.

is there some creative way you can limit contact?

[Kyh]

I've been thinking about this. Idk how much more limited our contact will be. The kids are young but then we're into teenage things, college, grandkids, etc. it will never stop. But that's thinking too far ahead.

I've stopped w/pictures of the kids and anything else I miss sharing w her. Only necessary things. We have an agreement for Wednesday nights and I have them Saturdays. So contact twice a week minimum.

Tonight she sent me a meme after work. I texted back another minimal text recognizing it but not over friendly.

I also think her response last week was her guilt. I think she was trying to get me upset to justify herself. I just found out she signed our papers last week.

Strangely, most of the time when she is here whatever I'm feeling melts away for the moment, but sometimes not, like Monday before last. And other times it comes back to bite me later. More work for me I guess.

[Kyh]

Thinking about this more and your post yesterday. I should be grateful I even have this problem. My custody issue could've gone the other way, then I was in the right frame of mind not to take the kids from her or her from them. More work for me but things will get better.

[bttrfly]

Hi Kyh. Exh and I would talk and text regularly through the day. If I didn't check in with him, he would check in with me. That silence was something that was hard to get used to once he left. We would send something funny to each other or share something about our son or the pets. That one was tough for me for a long while.

You will be surprised at how easy it is when the kids are teens to have almost NC. But you're a little ways from that now. How about putting a photo sharing page up on google or somewhere else where you can each store photos of the kids and each have the personal responsibility to check the site for updates. That way you will not feel like either of you is missing anything, but you also won't have to be in direct contact. Make sense?

I went through a phase where I didn't want to be home when son got picked up or dropped off. Lately I've been staying close to son until he leaves then I go out. As for drop off, I'm usually doing my own thing. If I'm home when he comes in great, but if I'm out doing something I'm not going to race home and wait by the door for exh to drop off the boy.

It's different for you because your kids can't be unattended like a 17 year old. It's a balancing act of trying to be polite/cordial for the kids' sake but also protecting yourself. I think that if you just sit quietly and wait the answers will come.

Yes. Things will get better and easier over time. To me you are someone who is working hard to live an authentic life, putting the wellbeing of your children first, being kind and compassionate. That is admirable and will lead you to a happier circumstance. xoxoxoxo

[Kyh]

Thank you bttrfly. I feel like I'm doing well w/the contact but there are just those times when it's too much and I need a break.

Tonight W texted me a Zillow link to her grandparents old house w/a crying emoji. It made me step back and look at this. Her grandmother died 9 years ago and her grandfather died 7 years ago, just a couple days before our D was born so she didn't get to go to his funeral, etc. W was his little girl, he took care of her amidst chaos and they were really close. Her grandparents basically raised her until she was an early teen. In hindsight I really think that is when this all may have started. So many changes for us a this time.

I feel bad for her, obviously she's spinning if she's looking up their old house. I looked at it and texted back that I was sorry but that it looked like someone had put some hard work into it, that I thought her grandparents would like to see it how it was now and that I hoped it was being appreciated. She replied "I hope so too." Idk, I didn't have much to post about tonight but this one really struck me w/a glimpse of what's going on in her mind.

[Kyh]

Edit: in hindsight, I think this is when this may have started - referring to her grandfather's death.

[bttrfly]

and don't discount the possibility of post partum depression playing a part as well.
xoxoxo

[Kyh]

Bttrfly, In hindsight I think it is also a factor. My mom asked me about it a few years ago and I blindly brushed it off. There's a podcast I listen to and one of the hosts talks about her ppd a lot and it always reminds me of W.

Rough couple days I will probably post about later but letting it go and going to enjoy my kids this weekend. Getting ready to leave town for the weekend and wanted to hop on the board and wish everyone a happy Easter!

[bttrfly]

{{{{{Kyh}}}}} Happy Easter xoxoxo

[Kyh]

Thank you butterfly! I hope yours was good. I know it was tough, our bd anniversaries are close. Why do they all pick important dates?

I apologize if I dont get back to some other threads tonight, I try to read through everyone's but needed to journal tonight.

We had a good Easter, the kids had a great time and the kids played w/cousins they dont get to see often. It's amazing how they just pick up were they last left off.

Last week I had a rough night, kids started telling me things out of the blue. First they were asking me questions about an outing w/om confusing me w/him. Ughh..... But then they told me they went to a hockey game (w hates hockey) w/our friend's (who was killed in the accident) ex and told me they went to his house and played Xbox w/ their kid. This guy is a POS, il say it, because that's what I think of him. Our friend had terrible taste in men, she used to stay w/W and I and I heard a lot of her problems although she wasn't innocent. I met This guy for guy for literally 30 seconds, our friends introduced us and I saw him looking down w's top while making an inappropriate comment and yanked W away by the arm. Our friend was very embarrassed. Months later She was later crying about him to us as he got a hooker in Vegas (keeping that story short) and treated her like s***. Now W is hanging w/him (this was around Christmas) and Idk what exactly what it all was but it made me want to puke hearing that and I had to stop my mind from from running w/it. My stomach literally was in knots for a couple days. I had a good cry which hasn't happened in a long time and ended up screaming in a pillow. I'm embarrassed but omg I have to get that out. Disgusting...just gross and idk even know what it was.

The next morning I was struggling the keep it together but getting better and letting it go and just before leaning to take the kids to school I turn around to catch S kick one of the dogs right in the mouth. I snapped and yelled, then S ran over and hit me. I had to stop and regroup, I can't believe to s is all happening. I talked w/S about it but he said it was all about school. We talked shortly but had to leave.

I took away video games all weekend. I also read a lot about video game addictions and autism and I'm changing things up. We're struggling.

W came over that night to see kids before we left. She took them for ice cream that night but before she left I told her what happened. She asked why he was acting out and what was wrong. I'm wanted to shake her and ask wth do you think but kept it together. I think deep in she knows.

We went back to my parents and had a good Easter weekend. The kids had fun playing w/cousins and saw great grandparents and my parents. I had a few rough moments but did okay.

Tonight D is in tub and loses it, she won't stop,crying. She keeps telling me it's unfair S is watching cartoons w/o her. After telling her several times she can get out and watch to she tells me "I don't want to die." I immediately got down on her level and asked her what was going on. She didn't/wouldn't bring up dying again but I dropped it and she said "I want to be with my mommy and daddy together." We hugged so hard and she clung on me like a boa the rest of the night. I laid w/them in my bed until they fell asleep. I told the kids I loved them no matter what and I always want to be w/them. It was so sad, I cried but didn't let them see. I didn't know what to say w/o villifying W. They indirectly tell me they want to be here w/me but also miss her and want her too.

This weekend w asked about the dogs before leaving. I told her I was taking all three and she said she wanted her dog. I agreed to leave him but she was texting the morning we left. I told her I left him but that he was upset when we left and she could stay w/him if she wanted. She gave me a lol, and said she was taking him to get apt. She showed up 5 minutes after we got back yesterday. It was obvious she stayed here all weekend (pants left beside my bed, coffee in the machine, dirty dishes, cold soda stream on the counter, cigarette butts in the driveway, Netflix, etc.) but she said nothing. I could also tell she was in my dresser. Idk wth... I didn't say anything about it.

[HaWho]

KYH - I am sorry. It's always hard to watch the impact of this on the kids.

I don't really have any advice except to keep showering them with love and affection.

Over time they will learn they can lean on you in hard times. Keep being their rock.

[Kyh]

Thanks Hawho, it's so hard seeing them struggle.

D wet the bed last night, I can't help but think it's related. We've never had that problem before. She was crying a lot this morning and was really clingy. She told me she didn't want to go to school. I gave her lots of hugs. After I took them to school she came back to my car before going in and asked for another.

W picked them up and stopped by to get a couple things. When they came in D was crying. She said it was because W hold them they had to wait a day for the book fair but I know what is at the root of it. I gave her a big hug and she calmed down. Poor girl.

W told me all about the concert she went to yesterday. Last week she told me she was going to be gone for work lol. She also told me she lost her car key there. long story short, someone turned it in, unbelievable. I think it's strange she wants to tell me about her work and share her stories w/me but I guess better me than someone else. I see she's out of it by her stories. I've also noticed lately she will get short or mad then be nice when I don't respond or play into it.

Going to have to keep myself busy the rest of the week, I hate not having my kids.

[bttrfly]

{{{{{kyh}}}}}
I'm so sorry you are all going thru this. Just remain consistent, so your kids know they can count on you. and come here because you know you can count on us xoxoxo

[bttrfly]

p.s. now would be a good time to do some GAL activities like calling a friend to go have dinner, or hike or watch a game (heck basketball and hockey playoffs or yay baseball!).

[Kyh]

I've been getting a ton of hockey in, It's the only sport I watch and the kids and I love going to games. Avs were terrible this year tho.

I was cleaning up the yard tonight and cutting wood from trimming the trees. Right when I stepped in the garage after finishing the door opened. I had my phone plugged in inside and w had been texting. First two were nice and third was PA. She needed some money for the kids. She kept apologizing but I told her not to worry about it and I'd run to the store. She was going to wait for me but said I could go w/them to the school so I had her take me to the store first. She talked to me the whole time about work. I didn't say a lot but made her laugh w/a couple jokes. We got back to the school too late and D was crying and upset again but didn't interrupt w if she was trying. As soon as I got her calmed down S started, this was about when we were back to my house and in the car in the driveway. every time he'd say what was wrong I'd give a response then he'd be upset about something else. W got really frustrated, clinching her fists and shaking arms. He got better after some calm talking but I could see as long as they were in the driveway it was going to continue (we hear about asd and lacking feeling/emotion but seeing things first hand I often think many times it's opposite, feeling so much they can't process it and then getting upset). I gave the kids hugs and went in. I feel sorry for all three of them. I wonder if it's hitting w at all. Thankfully he sounded much better tonight when I called.

[Kyh]

Edit -
We got back to the school too late and D was crying and upset again, I was calm and pateient talking w/ her but didn't interrupt w if she was trying.

[bttrfly]

oh boy. i feel for you and the kids - wife too. keep being calm and steady xoxoxo
why not ask a buddy or two to come watch a game with you this week while the kids are with w???

{{{{{Kyh}}}}}

[bttrfly]

Checking in Kyh - how are you doing?

[Gordie]

Ugh, that is so rough on the kids.

Playoff hockey is the best!

[bttrfly]

yes Gordie! it sure is!!

[bttrfly]

(both statements)

[Kyh]

Checking in Kyh - how are you doing?

Hi bttrfly, thanks for checking in on me and thanks for stopping by gordie. I'm doing okay. That was a good game tonight!

Yesterday W was texting me because she had to fire a guy for drinking on the job. I joked w/her a bit. Strange she was texting me but like I said before better me than someone else. I kept it short though. She called after work because the cops had a block near the kids' daycare barricaded. I asked her to call to tell me she got them so I knew all was good. She never did so I texted to ask, then she was rude. Ugh, I should expect it by now lol.

I tried to get together w/friends this week but it didn't work out so I scheduled a reiki session this evening, It was a pretty good one so that was nice. I felt good leaving.

Afterwards I stopped at the grocery store and walked by w and kids in her car on my way in. I was going in for one thing but w suggested I follow so we went grocery shopping together, it was a little strange but she tried to talk to me the whole time (kids kept interrupting). I could tell the kids liked us bring together but can't help but wonder if it was a good thing for them or not. I thanked her when we not back to our cars and left.

[Kyh]

Happy Mother's Day everyone!! I hope it's a good one for all of you.

[Kyh]

Hope everyone had a good weekend.

I had a surpringly nice day yesterday. W had been mad at me last week because she didn't get the kids seats to me and Tuesday morning she was late and I already had them at school. She showed up at the school as I was about to drive off. She was mad and yanking the seats out of her car. I asked why she was mad at me and she said I was making her look bad. I just said it wasnt a big deal and everything was fine. She pointed out a stain out on my shirt and then size I feel better now and her demeanor changed, weird.

That night when she called the kids she asked if she could have a hour on Mother's Day. I told her I was planning on her having them and he whole day and she acted surprised. Idk why she would think that way, I think she is trying to vilify me and possibly being encouraged by mlc friend.

Yesterday she texted in the morning and said she'd be getting there late in the morning but came about a hour earlier. She also thanked me for sending mil and step mil cards and bird feeders the kids made earlier in the week. She said she was going to hang out for just a bit and take the kids for ice cream, seemingly going to make her visit and time short. The kids gave her gifts and cards they made and I gave her a gift certificate for a massage from them too. She was really surprised and happy, she kept bringing it up and I saw her posting a picture of all her stuff. She brought up the massage a few times and was looking the place up during the day. I am glad we could make her day. I was giving her time in the backyard w/the kids and she asked me to come out and said it would be nice for us all to spend time together. We ended up spending all day together hanging w/the kids. Instead of taking them for ice cream sh said she'd rather go get some and bring it back and that she needed to go take her meds and would be back. I didn't ask any questions. i told her I would grill if she wanted so we ended up doing that for dinner but she seemed in a rush to leave early in the evening and said mlc friend got her a present and she needed to go over.

I tried to enjoy the day together without analyzing to much but did listen to a lot of what she said. D was very happy, at one point she was smiling and looking back and forth at us idt w saw it through her fog though. We talked quite a bit and some times things seemed normal but some of what she said was wacky. Like when She told me she was going to borrow her dog so her and mlc friend could take a picture w/their dogs for a Christmas card. i didn't say anything but was thinking you have kids and a family that love you!! There was another time when I was jumping w/the kids and w just had her head between her knees sitting on the deck steps. It's like she's in and out of it lately.

Before she left she told me thank you for everything again, almost like she wasn't worthy. She came over and gave me a hug which really caught me by surprise. She thanked me again and brought up a he massage. I told her she was welcome and she deserved it, I think she mumbled she didn't as she was walking off and we thanked each other for the nice day.

I'm trying not to think to much about it and just treasure the nice day we had but I think one rusty cog may have turned. But again no expectations and keep focusing on me and the kids. The nicer weather has been good for us to get out and keep busy.

[HaWho]

Geez, the Christmas card scenario is cringe worthy. I was wincing for her. (Still am.) If she actually goes through with it, it's like a public announcement to all that she is nuts.

Anyway, you do a great job. You really do. Truly, you have an industrial strength zipper on your mouth.

[bttrfly]

hi Kyh - echoing Ha's sentiments. You really have a lot of restraint and show what standing is all about. {{{{{hugs}}}}}

[Kyh]

Thank you Hawho and Bttrfly, I really appreciate your kind words and encouragement.

We've had lots of contact this week. I had to go out of town for work the beginning of the week and she stayed at my house w/the kids. Before I left she told me to have a safe trip (I had to go to a terrible place that's hard to believe exists in the states). This is the first time since before BD she's even asked or cared where I'm going. She also talked to me a few minutes after I talked w/the kids one night.

I'm doing a lot of listening and can see she's still out there. The day I got home she chaperoned S on a field trip to the zoo. When she came over she told me how terrible it was, how she decided she didn't like other kids (not her old self, sounds like mlc friend to me), etc. she must have been so overwhelmed. She vented quite a bit and talked to me a lot, she was at my house for about 3 hours but was getting in her phone a lot.

She asked if I could pick up the kids yesterday because she was stuck w/a customer so she was over again last night. She ate dinner and vented and talked to me a lot again. She was very upset because her boss cleaned off her desk while she was gone the day before. I validated her being upset about that and listened even though she kept getting on her phone. She mentioned having the kids stay here tonight because we got/we're getting a lot of snow and it would be easier for her Saturday morning. I just told her whatever was fine. She also texted me later that night about her dryer she just got and a couple times today, once for a joke and the other business.

I left work early today and stopped by the store for a few things. While I picking out apples she came up behind me and gave me a surprise "hey". We talked a couple minutes and she invited me to go eat w/her and the kids and asked about them staying w/me tonight and said they were complaining about never sleeping in. I met them at dinner late and didn't eat but bought desert for us. The kids went and played and we talked quite awhile then they came back to my house a few minutes before she left. I couldn't help but wonder if she had plans but she kept saying she was going to do laundry and go to bed, maybe it is true I know she has trouble getting ready in the morning because the kids are always impressed when I get them to school on time and I got a letter from the school that they have 10 tardies. She's been telling me what she's been doing and her plans lately. Lots of listening on my part. Trying to keep zero expectations because who knows what she's thinking.

The kids and I had a good night, we made snowmen and had a snowball fight. I've noticed D acts different w/W around. She has her moments w/me but acts really hyper, baby talks, misbehaves, throws fits, etc a lot more when W is present. I just don't let her do that w/me. I think she's frustrated and needs attention. Both kids are usually better after being w/me awhile. It usually takes a day or so to get back to the swing of things.

Have a good weekend everyone!

[bttrfly]

Hi Kyh, thanks for the pop in on my thread. How are you doing with all this contact? Are you able to stay in balance? Zero expectations are essential, so that's good. Re what she's thinking, tbh she probably doesn't know herself from moment to moment.

It's so hard for kids to have to volley back and forth. I see it with my son. The resignation, the anger held in check and the sadness. All we can do is provide as much stability and routine as possible when they are with us.

Overall you're doing well. You are a very patient person. What are you doing about getting together with the guys? How are your GALs progressing?

xoxoxo

[Kyh]

Hi again bttrfly,

I've been doing okay w/the contact but I know I need to work on getting to/staying in the state of mind to keep myself in balance (especially since I was struggling a couple weeks ago) and it's not easy. Its a strange mix a feelings sometimes.

I feel bad for the kids, just like everyone else here I never thought this would be our life. You're right all we can do is try to make the best of our situations for them.

Honestly, gal isn't going too well. I'm keeping myself busy with projects, went hiking the week before last and went to the movies this weekend. Definitely something I need to work on.

[bttrfly]

Can you schedule a guys night?

[Kyh]

I'm going to try again soon.

a little short journaling. Not much to no contact this week, then w calls me this morning. D had a field trip and W volunteered to chaperone a long time ago. I mentioned it last week and she said she wasn't going but I knew she had sent the papers w/D. D kept saying she was but I kept telling her she wasn't. W called to tell me D's teacher called her about going this morning when they were supposed to be leaving. she kept telling me how she felt bad and how they didn't get ahold of her, etc. she was a little worked up but I told her sometimes things like this happen, it was okay and it's probably happened before and then she acted relieved. We talked a few more minutes about the kids and school and I wished her a good day as she had an out of town meeting she was t looking forward to. Anyway I just thought it was strange she called to tell me this. Maybe she knew I'd help her feel better idk.

[Gordie]

Why did you try to make her feel better about it?

[Kyh]

I suppose there are several reasons but this is what pops into my head at the moment. Bear in mind idk what I'm doing and lots of the time try to do what feels right in the moment while trying to be detached and keep expectations at zero.

I'm also on my phone and made a few minutes and started rambling:)

It caught me by surprise and I'm a fixer so it was just my natural response. I know she didn't mean to do this, it's part of her mlc fog.

I'm glad she called me for support and not someone else. This time last year I was enemy number 1. I think it's good she feels she can call me. I'm not trying to manipulate but help guide if/where I can. She's got a lot of. bad advice through her crisis, especially from mlc friend and her old boss so I'm glad she feels she can talk to me, not just this, she vents about her job, people, family.

When she talks to me we're now in a place where I'm able to step back and see where she's at which is often in a fog but sometimes we can laugh or talk (I mostly listen) and sometimes I think she may have a little clarity. Lately, once in awhile I will make an inside joke or bring up a memory and she might laugh or say I forgot about that, or she might not know what I'm talking about and I will have to jog her memory.

I also see she's still obsessed w/making a lot of money and death. She's also working out a lot now. Not that it's necessarily bad, I'm trying to as well but I'm having a hard time making it a steady thing. last week she told me to feel her stomach and was so proud of herself. I complimented her but also let her know she looked fine before. She also told me she was doing x excersice for x. This is something she was teased about on the school bus (she told me about this a lot over the years). I feel bad for that hurt kid under the surface. In hindsight I can see how bad she's been scared from this and another body issue (which is crazy because she's beautiful). I used to tell her she was beautiful and she would always say shut up, you have to tell me that bc you're my husband.

[Kyh]

Basically I'm glad she feels she can call me and isn't going to someone else for support. This is a long way from those awful email/text only days. Although we all have our own version of our story I know what we had was real and we had good times and I'm not delusional. She's looking to me instead of depressed mlc friend, a coworker, or boss who don't really know her or a OM looking for a good time. I think that is a good thing.

[Gordie]

I wasn't criticizing. I was just wondering your thought process. Agree that it is good she came to you and you could listen and support her.

[25yearsmlc]

Basically I'm glad she feels she can call me and isn't going to someone else for support. This is a long way from those awful email/text only days.

I agree that it's progress. Pure and simple. LATER down the road, if you feel it's too hard for you to do, to always be there for her despite her antics, then you can set a boundary to help YOU with detachment.

But imo, there's no argument that Not spewing is better than spewing.

Whether that is enough to reconcile is NOT at issue now.



Although we all have our own version of our story I know what we had was real and we had good times and I'm not delusional.

I know what you mean and I agree. We are not insane and the WAS is not that superb an actor. We also know we may never regain what we had, and that's too bad. But it does not make it all a sham.

She's looking to me instead of depressed mlc friend, a coworker, or boss who don't really know her or a OM looking for a good time. I think that is a good thing.

OF course it is. And any questions about what it means, beyond being an improvement over her spewing, are premature.

You don't need that certainty, do you? This is a marathon, not a sprint.


My only concern for you is that there is a sense you are "waiting" as your DB plan.

Which is not actually a plan. So maybe you can get back to a real GAL plan b/c waiting for her may keep spew away

but imo, it's not going to get her to respect, love and recommit to you. And it stalls you out waiting and wasting time.

She may never return, and you will have wasted time Not GAL

she may return too damaged, and not willing to Piece, and again, I worry you are not getting your life to a place where you are a whole person.

Marriages that are healthy, involve 2 complete individuals, who do not "need" the other to be complete.

Make sense?

[Nee]

Hey 25,

I've always been confused about the waiting vs the standing.. You say waiting isn't what gains respect, love and recommit. If his W left, how would he not be considered "waiting" for her return if he hasn't filed for a divorce? They tell the LBS not to move out, then they say don't wait. How is that possible to understand fully when dealing with an MLC'er?

[25yearsmlc]

Hey 25,

I've always been confused about the waiting vs the standing..


Standing is not waiting. Waiting is just waiting. It's like standing STILL, which is not standing.

Waiting is being stuck, not looking in the mirror to do our own work or push our comfort zones. Sometimes waiting is like hoping for a magic solution or a time machine that can undo a terrible blow, and pretend it never happened.

I think there are LBSers who use the "standing" as an excuse for waiting and for no movement on their end. Just waiting and saying "my WAS is crazy in MLC land and there's nothing I can do...so I'll just do nothing and I'll call it 'standing'".

(I am Not saying anyone here specifically is doing this, btw).

Just that in general I see a some people using their standing belief or their faith to say, in effect, I'm waiting and praying...which imo, is not getting them anywhere.

1) Fact is WE have to heal ourselves, no matter what happens. Time alone does NOT heal all wounds. It lessens the sting, at a very slow rate. Whereas Time + effort on our end, helps us heal.
Otherwise we are spinning, becoming embittered and staying stuck. Which is No growth on our end...and the one thing we should all be getting out of this horrific ordeal, is growth and some peace.

2) the odds are not with us but on the off chance that our WAS's may want to re-enter our lives down the road, AND piece, several things have to occur first. ALL of which necessitate us having improved as individuals (and thus, as partners).

3) And in the more likely scenario that the WAS does Not return, we will be so much farther down the road to healing, and moving forward b/c we will not have been waiting around for someone who is never coming back.

In short, there are only downsides to "waiting". No upsides.

Besides,

4) the WAS's are far more likely to return, if we are whole individuals NOT waiting for someone to decide if we are worthy of their commitment.

Waiting is really rough on our egos, our self esteem, and our mental health. To me, waiting hinders us from finding our own peace, our own self. Our own path.


You say waiting isn't what gains respect, love and recommit.

Waiting alone will not heal us or get us our self respect. It's our job to heal ourselves.

If we are not healed, whole individuals who KNOW we are worthy & deserving of mutual love & respect, I don't think we will get it.


If his W left, how would he not be considered "waiting" for her return if he hasn't filed for a divorce?

Hopefully He's GAL, he's detaching, he's being a great dad,

down the road he MIGHT well file for Divorce. He might have to. There's a lot more to DBing than "waiting" or Filing", imo. Since our family finances were being paid for by h 10 years ago, and b/c I had 2 girls in school, one of whom was close to graduating from high school, I had reason to not file. But I GAL big time, I changed, I healed a lot.

We reconciled. We did NOT piece well, for 2 reasons, which is that I focussed too much on reconciling alone and b/c h's mother got terminal cancer right after we reconciled so we tabled true piecing.

I wish h had explored how he could leave our home for 2 years for a fiasco, OR I had learned that h wasn't remorseful for the damage he did, but for the fiasco and embarrassment he felt. (Hard to know now, But I'm just sharing some regrets and rumination, which I prefer avoiding).

At least that's what I believe.

They tell the LBS not to move out, then they say don't wait. How is that possible to understand fully when dealing with an MLC'er?

First, I won't pretend to "understand fully" what an MLCer does. Ever.

I only address what we can do as LBSers. It's all we can control which is why I sometimes think we are wasting time researching the MLC, except to remind ourselves that we are not alone.

I think the urge to wrap our brains around the WHY?? is natural. God knows, I've done it a lot. I'm trying to remind myself of my mantra, "Don't look back, that's not where you're going." B/c in the end, really, what choice do we have?

Besides, I have spent sooooo much time trying to be in my h's head. And I realize that

a) even if I could somehow become a very accurate mind reader or even if God gave me a crystal ball into my h's head, I believe my h would not know what he felt-

or if he did, his feelings would change the next week. OR be pretty weird and inexplicable. AND

b) I don't have that crystal ball.

AND

c) I'm not sure trying to put a rational spin on irrational behavior is helpful. Or possible.


to be continued....

[25yearsmlc]

Continued


IF IF IF the WAS has a great awakening down the road, it will Not have hurt our cause to have moved on.

Moving on cannot scare us so much b/c it's not saying we are meeting some new person and remarrying next year. We are just not waiting anymore. We are living our lives fully, happily and we are showing our children how to heal from a blow to our hearts and a setback in life.


The WAS would have to catch up to us to be worth even considering a recon, so why on earth "wait" for that? Plus It's actually more likely to happen if they see a healthy whole individual who brings something to the table, a happy person, a desirable person who might just want to be in a healthy R with a healthy person and that might not be the WAS...

Not to mention the really brave hard work that makes up piecing,

which is far far less likely to happen or to work, if we have been "waiting".

Waiting will make piecing harder, and scarier for us b/c it makes us more fearful of being left again,

b/c we will believe we cannot make it without our spouses, and will sort of just proved that to ourselves b/c we did not GAL when we could have.


Second, Not moving out is USUALLY a form of legal advice. It's to protect property, and sometimes it's to avoid a charge of "abandonment" in child custody issues.

Abandonment does not apply in "no fault only" states, or when there are no kids and each person has to decide about what property is at stake and talk to a L.

If you refuse to move out, for whatever reason, that does not mean you are waiting, although I can see why it is harder to show you are "moving on" if you are in the same house.

Hope this^^ helps.

[Kyh]

I wasn't criticizing. I was just wondering your thought process. Agree that it is good she came to you and you could listen and support her.

Hi Gordie, no worries, I didn't think you were criticizing.

Basically I'm glad she feels she can call me and isn't going to someone else for support. This is a long way from those awful email/text only days.

I agree that it's progress. Pure and simple. LATER down the road, if you feel it's too hard for you to do, to always be there for her despite her antics, then you can set a boundary to help YOU with detachment.

But imo, there's no argument that Not spewing is better than spewing.

Whether that is enough to reconcile is NOT at issue now.



Although we all have our own version of our story I know what we had was real and we had good times and I'm not delusional.

I know what you mean and I agree. We are not insane and the WAS is not that superb an actor. We also know we may never regain what we had, and that's too bad. But it does not make it all a sham.

She's looking to me instead of depressed mlc friend, a coworker, or boss who don't really know her or a OM looking for a good time. I think that is a good thing.

OF course it is. And any questions about what it means, beyond being an improvement over her spewing, are premature.

You don't need that certainty, do you? This is a marathon, not a sprint.


My only concern for you is that there is a sense you are "waiting" as your DB plan.

Which is not actually a plan. So maybe you can get back to a real GAL plan b/c waiting for her may keep spew away

but imo, it's not going to get her to respect, love and recommit to you. And it stalls you out waiting and wasting time.

She may never return, and you will have wasted time Not GAL

she may return too damaged, and not willing to Piece, and again, I worry you are not getting your life to a place where you are a whole person.

Marriages that are healthy, involve 2 complete individuals, who do not "need" the other to be complete.

Make sense?

Hi 25, yes that makes sense and you're right about me needing to work on my gal activities. I do things but it's always w/the kids.

[25yearsmlc]

well,

doing things with the kids is not something you're going to regret.

But yeah, you need to GAL without them for a couple reasons.

For one, you need feedback from the "outside world" that you are a good fun guy who deserves laughing and loving and interesting talk.

You won't get all that from your kids, and you have needs as a man and would be lover and adult companion.

Second, you also need to be a whole, healed individual and you need that for you AND for your kids. You are their role model for handling blows to the heart and they will all face their own, someday.

Plus, the healthier you are, the better parent you are for them. They need a rock to lean on and you are their rock.

Rocks need shoring up too.

Finally, and this is not a "reason" for GAL but a result, it tends to make a WAW wonder about being replaced.

Like "whoahhhh. I ASSUMED my LBH was going to pine for me some more - and watch the kids --- and now he -- HE might date OW??

And God forbid, a OW might see my kids??"


I'd write your wife a letter in my head....

"Dear WAW, Hope you're having fun now. It'll be harder to have that same fun down the road b/c your kids will be elsewhere with your LBH, whom they're going to be much closer to...forever.

Also, that new OW your LBH met - turns out, she's really kind to the kids! She's attentive, she spends Time with them, she is interested in their dramas, not her own. Oh and more good news. She's stable. She loves AND likes your LBH.
He is happier now! They all are. (Guess You were right). So thanks for all you did to help us get here.

Signed,
25
'witness to the carnage you began but which Kyh repaired.'

[bttrfly]

Kyh,
GAL is for YOU.

Whether it's solo activities, or group activities, it's for YOU.

Someone I've known for years gave me some great advice. He's been divorced for several years now. He said at first when you separate, you don't really know where you fit. You know who you are as a couple, but it's been so long or so much time has passed since your relationship with your spouse began that you might not remember who you were and what you liked to do as a single person.

My experience is that he was absolutely right about that.

He went on to say that it's awkward at first to try to remember the things you used to like to do before you became a couple, but to persevere. He said that we LBS then go through a phase of trying new things to see what feels right and what doesn't. He took up kayaking. He said it really brought him peace of mind. I can see where it would.

It's very important to try to remember what you used to do way back in the day. Try those things again- see if they resonate. Try something you've always been curious about but never did for whatever reason.

I spent the day Sunday volunteering at a place I've wanted to help out at for years, but never had the time and was too afraid to do it. My attitude was that any time I had went to exh and son first.

I will tell you this: My boy was picked up on Sunday morning by exh at 10am. I left at 8am to go volunteer for the day. At the end of the day I was bone tired, but happy. I'd spent the day giving back. I was with a group of people I had never met. My natural reticence held me back at first, but after a couple of people cheerfully introduced themselves, I took a deep breath and started doing the same until I'd met everyone in the area I was volunteering in. It was really hard for me to push myself to do this, but I'm so very glad I did. I will tell you that I gave my time, but what I got in return was some much needed peace. In fact, the director is happy to welcome me back every other Sunday, so on the days son goes with Exh, I will be leaving to do my volunteer work. I won't have to deal with the awkwardness of wondering if exh will choose to speak to me that day or nor, nor will I have the pain of seeing exh in his car driving away with our son, reinforcing my abandonment. I will have somewhere to be and something constructive and selfless to do which will selfishly give me peace. I wish the same for you.

The first step doesn't have to be a big, planned out event, Kyh. It could be as simple as asking a friend if they want to grab dinner or a movie.

It will help, I promise, especially when the kids are with your W.

Good luck and keep posting xoxoxoxo

[Nee]

Kyh,

I agree with Bttrfly. Volunteering is the key to feeling good about yourself and staying busy at the right times. I've been delivering Meals on Wheels for 5 years as of yesterday and love it. Nothing's more rewarding than giving back.

There's ALWAYS something in every community that needs volunteers. There's ministries, soup kitchens, Meals on Wheels, Boys and Girls Club,etc. You can go to a class to get educated on the Boys and Girls Club to get you comfortable with the more challenging kids.

Another thing is something called "Meet Ups". You can find on them internet that have different groups that do and discuss common interest. They have some for folks going through what you are now but have many other groups, too. There's Meet Up groups for sailing, bowling, running, foodies, meditation, etc. You name it..

Good luck to you, Kyh.

[bttrfly]

Is there an LL Bean store near you? Go to your local store website and check out the events page. They have a ton of either free activities or activities which aren't too expensive.

We absolutely volunteer for ourselves, even if we don't realize it at the time. As Nee said, it feels good to give back and also to stay better.

Good luck .Report on your progress, lol. Yep, I might nag ya about this. xoxoxoxo

[bttrfly]

stay busy not better - multitasking over here xo

[bttrfly]

Kyh, hope you are well. Wishing you a happy father's day xoxoxo

[Kyh]

Thank you bttrfly!! I'm doing alright, I've been meaning to update/respond but will have to get back to it as I can barely stay awake right now. Thanks again for the Father's Day wishes, I really appreciate it.

[Kyh]

Thank you 25, Bttrfly, and Nee. I need to keep working on getting out and enjoying myself and not thinking about W. I guess I should say exW now but will keep saying w for now. I got an email right after the post before my last that my papers had gone through the court.

It's been awhile since I've made time to post. I got sick again right after the post before my last and lost my voice for 9-10 days(actually made me think less of D finalizing, lol) and I've been having to go out of town a lot for work so I've been exhausted. I haven't had a chance for doing much since this is the first week I've been home and healthy in the last few weeks but I did hang out with coworkers after work the last couple weeks while out of town which was kind of nice. I did sign up for a few meetup groups but haven't done anything yet. I know it doesn't mean much until I do something but it is the first step and I would never had signed up for something like that before all this.

W has been all over the place over the last few weeks which is a reminder to focus on myself. IDK if I should even write about it but here it goes because I'm just journaling now. The week after D finalized she was staying at my house w/the kids, she was texting and trying to find a reason to get angry. I let it roll off and when I didn't respond she got nice again, even commenting liking the color I painted the main bathroom. It was short-lived, when I got back my parents had got the kids a big above ground pool and my dad stopped by to help set it up while I had the kids. W stopped over unannounced and walked to the back yard and turned around and went back in, IDK if she said anything when we said hi but things were awkward with her and my dad after. He left without going back through the house (I could tell he was bothered) and W monstered on me about it. I was still not feeling good and let it go without saying much and she stormed out and then went to another concert with MLC friend the next day. A couple days later when I left town again she started texting about it. I didn't respond so then she called and monstered again saying she's tired of people treating her like ____. I told her what happened and that it was weird that he left through the side but that the D affected a lot more than just us two and he was upset, she kept it up but I told her I didn't have any more to say than what I already had. I don't need that lol. She got nice a few days later. Then while I was out of town still she started rapid texting me about the baby sitter treating her like ___ and she was tired of it, blah blah. I told her she was really quiet and shy and not to take it personal. She texted the next day saying she was nice and talked more texting and she was nice. Then the next day it started again, telling me the babysitter made her late. I told her just to talk to her about it then she started in about not asking for my advice and she's not stupid and she was just going to take the kids to work with her (yep they'll love that). I think she's strained monetarily so in MLC style she went this route. I ignored her texts then all the sudden I get a lol, you know me getting fired up about things etc. and everything was cool and the babysitter is fine now.

Father's day went well, w stopped over with the kids that morning and was dressed really nice. She took them to paint ceramics for me which was really nice and also got me a couple shirts. I thanked her and she said "you deserve it" and gave me a hug, the same exact thing I told her on Mother's Day. She asked what we were doing and said I'm sure you're going hiking or something but I didn't invite her. I did offer her breakfast which I had made the kids but she left without. The kids wanted to go fishing so that's what we did. It was a nice day, hard but nice.

W has been nice still, strangely last week when I was out of town again she kept texting one night, even after midnight wanting me to watch the same show she was watching and laughing at. I was nice and responded but wasn't overly anxious respond, she did wake me up. She's also been telling me she is not sleeping well and about the nightmares she's been having and wow they are messed up. She also texted me pics of her hand this weekend, she went out of town again to a friends and got hurt. I simply said I hope you're okay and then she sent more but I didn't respond.

Still journaling if you're still reading. I got a call from one of our credit unions at work, W has missed the last four car payments, it sounds like they were ready to repo her car but had her old address from before she moved back here. I thought it was paid off. I decided to call her and let her know which actually went okay. Before I would have felt bad and paid it to catch up but she can take care of it. She kept apologizing and said she would take care of it. I checked up today and she did and there are only two payments left so hopefully it's no longer an issue.

Trying to keep the focus on myself and kids but it is a little difficult with so much contact (the kids come here with babysitter during the day). W also tells me about her work, vents, etc. while here. I try to listen and can see how out of it she is, texting to ask where my car keys are - on the key holder on the side of the fridge like they've been for the last 15 years (she really doesn't know), coming home to a trashed house w/sliding door open and furnace running, kids drinking out of wine glasses because the dishwasher hasn't ran, etc. It's so insane.

One more thing, D has one of my old phones and pretends to call W all the time (it makes me sad and angry). She also makes comments to me about maybe her mom could come over, etc. W never called Saturday night like she said she would and Sunday when she called and I told the kids she was calling and D told me no thanks I already talked to her tonight referring to an imaginary conversation. This is so sad IDK what to do, should I say something to W or just keep an eye on this and keep being there for D? I ask them frequently how they are, if anything is bothering them, if they need to talk, etc.

[bttrfly]

Hi Kyh
'm glad you're taking steps to do more GAL activities. It takes a while, I know. You're so patient with your MLCr. On the one hand, that's wonderful as compassion is always a good thing. On the other, I wonder how she will ever miss you if you're still picking up the pieces and acting like her husband.

The rub is the kids - they need you and she knows that. And you will be in each other's lives a lot until the kids are older. I defer to someone with more experience to weigh in because I do feel like there has to be a balance where her insanity isn't in your space.

Job? Ellie? Any thoughts?

[Kyh]

Thanks for stopping by Bttrfly. I know what you mean about xw not missing me if she's around.  I also wonder how to reconnect if you don't see one another. IDK maybe seeing each other every other week works both ways. I really don't know what I'm doing. Once the kids go back to school it will be minimal.  I'm doing okay not letting her insanity affect me too much (well maybe not after rereading this because I'm wrk into about her lol) and actually calming her down through my actions, although I did have a few days of spinning a couple weeks ago.  She's always been a bull in a china shop but it's different since MLC, she gets fired up so easily and maybe there is a little paranoia mixed in there (e.g. FedEx guy didn't steal your bed - calm down, driving crazy flipping people the bird).  Other times she seems fine. I guess it's the depression and stress.   

Just updating and journaling again. IDK why but when I asked about the kids schedule for the 4th she said they could just go with me (it was her turn this year). She said she was just going to go to old town w/her dog and hang out (she tells me where/what she is doing a lot now - doesn't matter because IDK if I can believe it).  I left town and when I came back w/the kids she said she stayed at my house w/her dog and didn't do anything. She slept on the couch even though there were four beds. It's weird she told me I could take the kids on her turn. I didn't ask anything about her time and the kids and I had a great 4th.  It was hard though.


I'm wondering if there is some bipolar pd coming into play.  She was all giddy talking 100 mph just before the 4th.  Then last week when she came to pick up the kids I had to talk to her about financial stuff w/the car and she stood in the kitchen and cried. I believe it was real because she was trying to hold it in and hide it.  I calmly told her "I'm not mad at you but I'm not happy about the situation" which made it worse. She was trying really hard not to cry for quite awhile.  A couple days later and she seemed normal, not acting giddy or depressed and making eye contact (they don't look so vacant like before).  Last week she would eat leftovers if I had already ate with the kids or ate with us, always complimenting what I made.  She had a big event at her work this weekend and asked if she could use the grill because their budget didn't allow a new one (there are six people at her office).  I was surprised by this but said that was fine, and really I don't care.  She came and got it that morning and said she would really like it if I stopped by with the kids.  I didn't really want to but the kids were excited so we went.  Her boss came and visited w/me, saying how much she hears about me (in a good way). I know she stuck her head in a few days ago to just to see me when I picked up the kids from W over my lunch too. I thought this was a little different, I wonder what xw talks about because I know I was enemy #1 to her and her old boss at her last job.  Anyway, I was myself, the h she was a fool to leave.

Monday I had to leave and go pick up S (D at friends) at her office bc the babysitter was late.  She was fired up again, I had to tell her our babysitter was a teenager and these things will happen, it's not a big deal and I will come get S and she calmed down.  During our ride S told me "mom gave us pizza left from work last night and mine looked just like D's and moms but she said it was gluten-free." He kept telling me about it.  Well I know it wasn't, they didn't have gluten-free pizza when we were there.  I could tell something was off w/S, he was clumsy and just a little off.  I can't believe her.... Instead of bringing it up I texted and asked if he got gluten. She said no and when I told her he was acting a little off she replied "I was clumsy too at that age."  She called that evening to ask about him. I didn't mention anything S told me. She told me he had pizza but she bought him a GF one.  In the car I had asked S if they went and got one or had one delivered and he told me no so I think she is lying. I didn't say anymore about it hoping she sees what she did. She could have actually got him one and he just had an off day (it happens) but I doubt it.

I mentioned it before but diet is how we treat S's asd.  Before starting this diet he was non-verbal and would drag his head around on the carpet, beat his face on the wall/floor, and scream so loud it would make our glass lamps ring.  Three days after starting the diet he started talking and his glazed eyes disappeared.  He is to the point now where he is in normal classes at school (was way ahead before MLC but now only slightly) and no one knows/can tell unless they are familiar w/asd.  So that was very aggravating but I think I handled it well.

I mentioned her not making car payments before.  Well I keep getting calls.  She was supposed to be making the payments (should be paid off) and also paying for half of the kids medical per the decree which she is not.  I'm also still paying her insurance. I haven't asked her for anything w/med bills because I know she is struggling, I know she quit making payments to the guardian attorney after the decision went my way because I get statements and I think the attorney finally sent it to collections. I also get her mail that looks like collections stuff. I'm thinking of just paying the car off and being done with this because it is in my name, IDK what to do.  W told me she was going to but I will believe it when I see it.  I thought about contacting my attorney but a few hours between lawyers and I'd be money ahead to pay it off and done w/this.  I also got another toll bill in the mail from W. I know if I give it to her she won't pay it and I will just end up paying more (this is the 3rd or 4th plus a parking ticket).  This is frustrating, her plates are expired and still in my name so I get these.  She says she doesn't have money, which is true, but she leaves town all the time and also goes to concerts w/MLC friend who I think pays for a lot of w's stuff so xw can hang out w/her.


I've been keeping busy, playing disc golf almost daily and getting the kids into it too. Still trying to do better w/GAL but keeping busy.  I am taking the kids ice skating w/a single parents meetup group tonight, taking them to an air show next week, and I took a week off in August.  Not sure what we are going to do yet.

[bttrfly]

Hi Kyh,
Thanks for the update. I have a few thoughts, although I'm super tired and will probably write more tomorrow.

Starting with the positives:
I'm impressed that you are going to that single parent ice skating event. Great job!!! Progress - it's all good! Let us know how it goes.

Also, I'm very impressed with the changes in Son simply with diet. I've heard of that but you're the first person I know who has stated such dynamic changes. I will tell my ex-bil as my nephew is on the spectrum and barely verbal.

I think it's interesting that she talks you up to her colleagues. I'd say that's a positive sign. Not sure of what, exactly, but it's certainly not negative.

She seems depressed. You are endlessly patient and kind to her.

I'm not sure what others will think but if your name is on anything, I'd take care of it from a financial perspective, keep a tally and tell her she can pay it off a little at a time. Maybe ask her if it's ok with her if you do that first? Explain that you're concerned about your credit and also want to help her and that seems like a win-win for both of you?

Re: the non-gf pizza and the lies - that's not good. Really not good. Document it. Get a notebook, write down the date, time and what son said, what she said, etc.

You will hopefully never ever have to use it but if you don't write it down, you will later maybe wish you did if God forbid this becomes a pattern.

will try to write more tomorrow. xoxoxo {{{{{kyh}}}}}

[Kyh]

Thanks Bttrfly

Well, we tried to go to the ice skating meetup but had car trouble half way there and had to limp home. It's an active group so I will have to catch another one, the only thing is it's a town over. Not far but can sometimes take awhile depending on traffic so it's not easy to just catch an after work meetup. It stinks, the kids and I were looking forward to it. Good news is it's a cheap fix.

Yes the changes from S's diet were incredible! What I mentioned is just scratching the surface. It's hard but the result was miraculous. I'm thankful we caught it so early. I almost teared up writing about it above remembering that moment when he spoke to me. We also did dairy, soy, and yellow dye but reintroduced those after a couple years. I think the gluten had damaged his digestive system and after it healed he could tolerate dairy and soy. We did this as a family so it would be easier for S. After doing this w/him my longtime psoriasis/rash on elbows and knees went away and I was able to quit my migraine meds so I'm GF now too.

I documented it as you suggested. I wrote in the same notebook I kept in my office before. I haven't looked at it since I made copies for the guardian attorney. Reading some of that old stuff was painful but I realized how far I've come in a year. Hopefully I don't need it but better safe than sorry.

Xw did make a payment yesterday, she was supposed to do it in full but like the last 2 years she was counting chickens before they hatched (she is in sales) and couldn't. She dropped off D's ds at my office so I asked her about it and mentioned the toll bill. Things weren't bad but, ehhh...not great. she took the kids to meet and playw/friends as she was supposed to meet their mom for coffee. When she came to drop them off she was a mess. The credit union took out more than she setup and she had nothing left and they didn't know if they could reverse it. She was crying and told me she felt like a loser and how she was working hard and her boss told her to quit coming in on her days off and that she looked like crap, was too skinny and needed to take her off days (I imagine bad attitude too). Someone else giving truth darts!

I tried to talk about paying it off and her paying me back but she wasn't up for it, I really don't know if she was taking it in since she was so upset. I will bring it up again at a better time. This has all been very financially stressing on me too. I ended up giving her a little money so she has something until she/we figure this out. Idk if I should have but I gave her a couple hugs and wiped the tears off her face, told her she would be okay and wished her a good afternoon. She seemed genuinely thankful. Idk if this was the best thing for me to do but it was also for the kids to make sure they're taken care of since next week is her week to have them.

[Kyh]

Forgot to mention myself, having a good weekend w/the kids. Park, frisbee, and swimming today and maybe fishing tomorrow. Keeping busy and enjoying our summer.

[bttrfly]

kindness is never a bad thing. let's be honest here, i'm pretty sure you did this with zero expectation, so that's the most important thing, right?

yes, gluten can really cause a lot of damage. be mindful that soy isn't great. a little goes a long way. the problem is, soy is in a lot of stuff. if you're eating it, make sure it's organic so you're not eating franken-soy, aka GMO.

sorry you didn't get to the meet up but i'm so happy you made the attempt. glad the car repair is minimal. oxoxoxoxo yes, you've come an incredibly long way. don't ever forget that.

i hate this about MLC but i think it is true that the MLCr has to hit rock bottom before they start to get better. So sad. You can have the paying off discussion at another time. Hope you continue to have a great weekend with the kids. take care xoxoxo

[Kyh]

Yes, trying to keep things at zero. It's hard I still care about her and it hurt to see her hurt. I know I'm not going to nice her back but I'm glad she let that out to me and not going elsewhere.

I had lots of contact w/xw this week. She called me Monday and said she was in too much pain from her adeno/endometriosis to watch the kids and was going to have to take a muscle relaxer. I asked if she was okay when she called the kids and she said Mlc friend came over to help take care of her. I'm glad she had me watch them.

She got the kids the next night but I had to get them early the next morning because I took the day off for an air show. Unfortunately, it got cancelled due to weather but we still had a good day and kept busy.

Xw tells me a lot about work etc. one night last week she just says "it happened today." I had no clue what she was talking about. When I asked she said she had to go talk w/Mlc friend because she was depressed. Evidently she was manic and spent all her money from her late h's life insurance and doesn't remember how. I feel bad for her but in a strange way it reassured me I'm sane. XW and Mlc friend are connected at the hip. Misery loves company..and craziness.

We decided to take the kids to the carnival together this weekend. We hadn't planned this but there were some news going around about attempted child abduction lately and we thought it would be best. We had a good time but while there I got a glimpse of how out of it xw is. She got on a kids ride w/them once and not in the same seat. She asked I Was going and I laughed and said no. When she got off she told me she thought she was getting on another ride that was next to it but didn't realize until it started. Wow..really... Lots of venting about work but she finally calmed down. We did have a good night and I'm glad we could do that for the kids. She also thanked me and said she had a good time. Lots of different feelings: sorry for her, missing the old her, seeing the out of it new her, knowing I deserve better but not wanting to give up. No expectations but trying to be more patient (if possible).

[bttrfly]

Lots of different feelings: sorry for her, missing the old her, seeing the out of it new her, knowing I deserve better but not wanting to give up. No expectations but trying to be more patient (if possible).

{{{{{Kyh}}}}}



I know. You are doing what I certainly couldn't. I can't imagine how hard it must be to be in this much contact with your xw. hugs xoxoxo

[Kyh]

It's been awhile since I've posted, busy with kids and work lately. I've been doing well other than a few unexpected triggers which I let go of quickly. I'm still trying to work on GAL. I tried another meetup w/the kids but the rink hours were wrong so it didn't work out. I will have to try again.

I've cherishing my time with the kids this summer, it went really fast. I did take a week off to spend with them before they went back to school. I've been trying to do some things we did before bd like game night with the kids and taking them to the farmers market. It was kind of hard at first as that was something we always enjoyed as a family but I was able to let it go and enjoy it.

The kids went back to school the week before last. I think this will really minimize contact w/ex. The kids seem to be doing okay but S's good friends were in another class again and he is upset about it.

I haven't been talking/texting to xw much but when she is here she always talks to me. I keep things minimal but friendly. I have also quit sending pics of the kids when we're out and about.

Xw got furniture from my cousin who she has stayed in contact with and came over to get some of her things while she had a truck rented. She unloaded it by herself. She mentioned her upstairs neighbor was supposed to help but didn't show. The next day when she came to get some of her stuff and some bunk beds I let her do it all. I felt like a jerk but would have helped if she asked but wasn't going to offer. I feel bad, she has been hurting since.

I can see xw seems to be going between replay and depression. I mentioned her saying she felt like a loser a couple times in my older posts. It happened again the first day of school. She was supposed to come over to take them together. I finally texted to see where she was and she called back that she couldn't find her keys. She finally got here and we got the kids to school just in time to go inside. They were both crying because they didn't get to play outside first and xw was crying because she felt bad. What a sight. On the way back to my house she told me she felt like a terrible person.

Xw has been staying at my house w/the kids when I'm out of town. When I got home this week she texted to tell me she had to pick her stuff up at the end of the day and we got there at the same time. After she got her stuff she just sat down and hung out. Sometimes talking to me and sometimes just on her phone. She was here quite awhile. She also asked if I would pop her back. I did but kept our contact minimal. I thought it was kind of weird she was just hanging out. She was also here awhile on Labor Day. She asked to eat leftovers, hung out a little while, and then left abruptly.

She also took Saturday off and took the kids with her so see xstep inlaws. This was nice to see. Usually if she takes a day off she doesn't spend it with the kids.

Trying not to worry about xw and focus on myself but I can't help noticing these things w/so much contact.

[Gordie]

Kyh,

You sound good and are a model to me as my d is proceeding and I have young kids and will have lots of contact with my stbxw. I know she will struggle financially too and not sure how I will deal with that. How are your GAL activities?

[Kyh]

All of the contact can be hard and it takes some getting used to. Most of the time I'm okay but sometimes it's not easy. Idk how this will play out in the future but I'm just dealing w/things as they come right now. I do feel bad for her because I know she is struggling financially but I have to remind myself it was her choice. It's another reality check for her.

My gal could use some work. It mostly involves my kids which Is good. We stay busy and we're doing lots together. I could use work outside of kid time though. It's hard when they are young and I have them so much. Something for me to work on.

[Kyh]

Just needed to vent a little so I'm journaling. I've been doing well ignoring her crazy but this morning almost got to me.

Today she's back to being angry. I should've seen it coming the day before with her text (she uses okay, ok, k, and k.) depending on her mood lol. If I don't react she gets friendly after a few hours or the next day. Night before last I got the k. after she asked if it was okay to call the kids and I replied sure. Then she sends a bunch of pictures a couple hours later.

I haven't seen this in awhile so it caught me off guard. Last night she asked to come over this morning to do D's hair before picture day. She shows up at 805 looking like crap and for a fight. She immediately wanted to know why I did her hair. I told her I drop them off at 815 and I didn't know if she was going to show up because she told me she would be over at 730. She got mad telling me I think she is a pos, you weren't going to call me, and I would never say 730 because I could never get here by then. I just had to ignore it, she wanted to fight.

She also brought over S's reading log which she said was due so he had to rush through it while she tries to give us all attitude. This morning was nice until she showed up. We we're better off without her there and I barely got the kids to school before the last bell at 830.

This was frustrating, but I just let her spin. I'm betting since I mostly ignored it I get a half @ apology next time I see her.

[job]

I am so very sorry that she was acting out this morning. None of you needed this BS at that time of the morning, if ever. There's no excuse for bad behavior...but she's not a happy camper and things aren't going the way she thought they would. If she said 7:30, then she should have been there at 7:30 and not at the time you were getting the kids off to school. That a "shame of her" deal.

She may apologize and then again, she may sweep it under the rug. Time will tell. Continue as you have been as you are the only adult in your children's lives at the moment.

[bttrfly]

I'll add this, and ask the old timers if they think it's a good strategy:
next time she asks to come over in the morning say no, that's not convenient. If you feel bad about saying no you can always offer to meet her at the school yard before they kids go in for the day

No one needs stress in the morning.

[job]

I'll toss this suggestion into the ring, since bttrfly had a good strategy.

You could always say something like this: "w, if you can't be here by 7:00 AM to do d's hair or bring son his book, then you can meet them at the school yard before they go into the building. Being late is unacceptable and it disrupts the daily routine of getting the children ready for school and out the door."

[bttrfly]

you could even put a db twist on it by saying something like, since mornings are stressful for everyone, you included, why don't we do just meet at the school before they go in so everyone can have a little extra time and an easier start to their day?

it's letting her off the hook, but also not giving her any ammunition to fight with you.
xo

[Kyh]

Thank you Job and Bttrfly! Next time something like this comes up I will try suggesting a time and saying something similar to your suggestions.

Xw did end up getting sick that night but it's no excuse. I told her sorry and to let me know if she needed anything, then her texts turned nice.

[Kyh]

 I thought I would update my thread today. 

Things w/xw have been pretty good since I last posted.  No more monstering/trying to pick fights. 

I've been staying busy with work and I've started doing things in the house to make it a home again and not look like a house of MLC aftermath. A couple weekends ago I went into the old MLC dorm room and a lot of emotions washed over me and it was very upsetting. I had only been in there a couple times since xw moved out.  I decided to paint the room and rearrange last week which seems to have helped.  I also painted my bedroom and I plan on going through the rest of the house while I don't have the kids. I have a couple more house projects I hope to get to sooner than later.  Xw and I had plans for the house and I am going to continue on with them without her.

I haven't been speaking w/xw unless it involves the kids and have been really minimal.  Even so last week we had lots of contact.  This isn't good but she texted and asked me for money toward her child support last week.  I'm already ahead of her on it but just gave her all of it to make sure the kids are okay.  This is frustrating because she just took the kids on a trip. I am also still paying her car insurance.  I have been waiting to bring this up and was thinking about it but today I got cc'd from my attorney on a court order for her to pay the guardian attorney fees so I think I will hold off a little longer. I'm also afraid of my kids riding around in a car without insurance.

When I was at her apartment last week to give her money I went in for a couple minutes to say hi to the kids.  When I was close to leaving I said love you guys to the kids in the living room, xw then said love you.  IDK what the heck, if that slipped, if she was trying to tell the kids to say it back or what. It was really soft and weak (not the way xw speaks) and actually made me question if I was crazy.  I just said love you and bye to the kids again and left.  I'm not putting too  much thought into it, just noting it because it was strange.  She was also over awhile Saturday night while picking the kids up and again Monday night to drop off some of their school stuff. She ate like a teen on the run (lots and fast) after the kids and I were done eating and then left. She did compliment my meal at least. I think she's back to the coffee and cigarette diet.

I've noticed a couple other things she has said but I try not to give them too much thought. I was talking about speaking with one of S's friend's moms about school.  I mentioned it to xw but accidentally said the wrong name.  Xw said "Who is __?, your girlfriend, go ahead and talk to her about school I don't care."  I also told her I bought tickets to the corgi meetup in the neighboring town for this weekend. She made a comment about how she was disappointed she didn't get to go.  IDK, nothing to really dwell on but things that make me wonder.

IDK if I'm just disconnected more and able to see it now or if it has been this way awhile but she seems to be bouncing between the MLC stages in short periods of time.  I guess I don't need to worry about that and keep the focus on myself and the kids.  I've been working with them to keep things picked up, helping out a little, and taking care of our things.  I think at xw's you just kick shoes off where they land, book bag on the floor, etc.

Not much else going on, kids are back in school and we seem to be back on track other than this being a rough week with them.  I'm looking forward to this weekend with them, it should be fun.

Oh I had a good laugh about MLC watching Phineas and Ferb w/the kids. The evil scientist on the show made himself have a MLC, the writers must have had a little experience or maybe we're reading posts here lol. If you need a good laugh about MLC the song from the episode comes up if you search it.

[roist]

Overall you seem to be doing well. I have one observstion and that is about you holding back on discussing the insurance. It's nice gesture. Actually it is s Nice Guy trait.

In general I am a believer in doing the "nice" thing as a good way yo live. Hard core people hear will say (and correctly) that she should reap what she sows. Some guys have had their W come back because they didn't protect them financially. They stopped paying regardless of her situation. It wasn't their problem.

I haven't followed your story in depthly so I cannot offer a clear opinion on what is best. I hear you about not wanting the kids to suffer or miss out due to W not having money. That is commendable. I probably would stop the insurance and if possible divert that money to benefit the kids.

Best wishes

[Gordie]

Just watched the MLC song...hahahahaha

[Kyh]

Updating again. Quite a bit of contact w/x and she's been staying at my house when I've been out of town for work which has been a lot lately.

I still haven't done anything with the insurance. There hasn't been a good time and I think she would take it wrong or personal right now. I was going to say something a few days after my last post when she was here but she didn't look good. She told me she got demoted at work and was crying but trying really hard to hold it back. I was supportive, listened and told her she didn't deserve that and I know how hard she's working. She was here awhile and ate dinner which she does quite a bit. That night I invited her to a light wire play I was taking the kids to and she met us there the following weekend. Idk but she may have been crying when it started, she kept wiping her face but it was really dark.

I've also looked at her car a couple times over the last few weeks so she's been here for that too. She's been good about thanking me for it. I've done it because it's a safety issue with the kids in her car. She's usually friendly while here and plays with the animals, but lots of getting old talk and venting about work. If she eats she always compliments me on what I make. We've also shared a few funny memories and laughs. She tells me some of the good things she does so I tell her how I appreciate whatever it might be. She often tries to reject my thank you but I know she appreciates it.

Last week she called me in the morning to tell me about something and sounded terrible. I asked if she was okay and she told me about how her boss sent her a text meant for someone else saying she would've fired xw if there had been someone else to cover the office. I told her I was sorry and that I know how hard she's been working, how frustrating her job sitch must be, and how she deserved better. We wished each other a good day and she stopped by a couple nights later so I could look at her car again. She ate but seemed really stressed and didn't stay long. She also popped in my office Friday and asked me to print her car insurance so she could license it. She was in a big hurry and stressed about hurrying and getting back to work.

Yesterday I got a very friendly text emojis and all asking if the kids tried on their costumes. Then she invited me over to carve pumpkins w/them tomorrow night. I kept it short and told her I'd let her know. We had just finished carving them but I didn't tell her that. Xw and I have always carved pumpkins, this is our first year not doing it together. I thought about it quite a lot but decided not to ask her. D told her and after they got off the phone I got a text saying "I didn't realize you were carving pumpkins because I didn't get the invite this year, you don't have to come over." I didn't reply. It made me wonder if I should have asked her because I think her feelings are genuinely hurt, but she divorced me. Not sure if I should do or say anything.

I'm trying to figure out if there is anything going on reconnection wise since it happens so slow. I know a lot if not all of this is touch and go but her crying and telling me about her work can't be easy, especially after the things she said to me deep in the fog. She tells me her plans/where she is going a lot now too, idk why bc I don't ask. No expectations, just seeing what happens for now. I really have doubts whether she can ever come out of this while still hanging out w/MLC friend but I do notice a few very small improvements.

Kids and I are doing alright, we had a good week and fun weekend which was nice. Our last couple weeks were rough.

[job]

Kyh,

I'm no expert, but it appears that your w feels very safe w/you. You've made your home a safe haven for her. I do think she's having more and more moments of clarity. Reconnection begins usually w/the children, pets, etc. and the spouse is the last one. She's still has a ways to go, so...I would suggest that you keep the door ajar and continue as you have been. Time will tell if this is a true reconnection in progress or not.

I think you've been doing a great job of being a "safe haven" for her.

[Kyh]

Thank you Job, I really appreciate your input and encouragement.

I'm still digging up patience I never knew I had or maybe it's detachment. Xw is really upset about carving pumpkins w/o her. She looked terrible tonight when she came by to get the kids stuff. She would barely look at me or speak. Before she left I told her I didn't mean to upset her and that I would never intentionally upset or hurt her. Then she told me she felt stupid for asking me to come over. I told her I appreciated it and then it was an awkward bye. Idk why she would feel stupid but she references it a lot, feels stupid, people treat her like she's stupid. I know she was told this as a child, so sad.

[Gordie]

Kyh,

What a great update. You sound good and balanced. I have learned so much from you.

1. It seems like your XW sees you as a friend or more than a friend that she can rely on for financial and other support and it seems you are comfortable with this, right? Except for the car insurance that you would like her to pay, things are pretty much as you’d like.

2. It also seems like you have a demanding job with travel and you depend on her for extra childcare and housesitting, right?

3. It also seems neither of you have moved on to other R so that also has a different feel than many of the other situations. Are you not interested in dating at this time (no judgment, just curious)? I remember early there was some sort of OM. Is he out of the picture?

[job]

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