WW wife turned WA what to do? Sandi2 anyone?

[Vanilla]

I think detachment is the key here. Not being nice, or not nice. Detached like she is a guest, like you would treat me or someone else sitting in your kitchen. Polite is not going to save your marriage. The more polite you are, the more you are likely to see cold and indifferent from her. It bites, but unfortunately the same behaviors are reported all over this board. There's just nothing you can do but let go. Hang in there! You've got this.

I really like this very much.

Great post

V

[Mowgli]

7-year itch. How many of us had things start to unravel at the 7 year mark? I bet a lot!

Truth is, you can't take her back until she is ready to fully change and recognize what she's done to you. honestly, you don't want her back until that happens...

The issue is not how to take her back but to delay the divorce. This^^ would possibly apply to them if they were to reach the piecing stage. Which is what he hopes for.

Being punitive, especially when it's premature, will keep them apart, imo.

You need to focus on you until she has proven (actions, not just words) that she is ready to really try and make things work.

That starts with intensive counseling with a good counselor; one that supports marriage and applies MWD's and Gottman's principles.

He has no control over her. There are no words or actions from her to assess, except that she wants out. I feel as if we are reading too different threads.

Until then, you do you, man. setting boundaries will get you respect back faster than anything I know of. It gets worse before it gets better, but boundaries work.

25,

Not reading 2 different threads. See the part where I say "Until then." His focus needs to be on himself and the kids, also known as detaching. LiM said it best when he said that even though she may not be seeing this guy, she's still in the WW mindset; he knows what that looks like.

[LiM]

25,

I've read through the updates kinda quickly but it appears that you have now reclaimed the MBR and your W is relegated to the couch. I think that is a good thing. I would just caution you to be careful to agree to one thing (moving out, parenting plan) and then changing your mind and doing something different (staying and moving back into the MBR).

Your W is the one that left the M. Let her be the one to move out or sleep on the couch. I definitely understand the fear but you can't let yourself be controlled by thoughts of what she might do (filing for D). You can't control her. You only have control over yourself. You get to choose to what is right, to be the Light House. If she continues to decide to move away from the M, that is her choice and you can't let yourself feel bad if that is what happens because you chose to do what is right.

Your W is very much still wayward. All you can do is work on yourself and be the best dad you can possibly be to your kids. Keep the door open for her but do not compromise your principles. If you do, that will only allow the disrespect to continue. If she eventually starts to come out of the fog, she will see that you stood for what is right and will appreciate that. If not, then that's her loss.

I would encourage you to continue to work on being patient and kind. Be slow with your words. Think carefully when you speak with her. Your faith appears to be important to you. Talk with God and ask him to be with you when you talk with your wife. You aren't required to give answers right away when your W asks things. Its perfectly reasonable to just listen and tell her you will respond when you've had time to think about what she says to you.

[75Shade]

Thank you to everyone for the advice. I am detaching and focusing on the children now. Still GAL and staying focused. Still hard to be happy and nice around her but I am being still and not trying to initiate any conflict. We are nesting as she wont stay at the house when I am there.

Im salvaging myself and following legal council now as to how to proceed. She is seeing the orher guy now and that to me is too much regardless my faith. Its in Gods hands now.

[Vanilla]

Having an OM is the pits.

And there will always be some snake pit grot who will fit the mouldy role.

You are a classy dad and deserve the best. Stay strong for your children.

I am glad you have a connection to your higher power, it will get you through the darkest of times.

Rainbows

V

[75Shade]

Ok update.

I had the kids for the weekend. We are nesting at the same house keeping the kids there and alternating nights. She came over this morning to relieve me much earlier. She started making lunch and offered some to me. Then she wanted to talk about splitting assets.

She makes a ton of money but not much on paper. Self employed lots of write offs. She wants the family home but cant finance it so she wants to take rental property. I told her flat out that there would be no amicable agreements that make leaving your family easy. I will see her in court. She then started crying and told me that she didn't feel loved when we were married.. I don't know where that came from. I told her I loved her but wasn't probably doing it the way she needed.... then she says that she doesn't think I can forgive her because she knows how I am... she has said this before when she starts doubting.

We sat in silence after that, then I told her that I cant forgive her for not trying to get counseling or working on things. I told her that our children's sadness and confusion are on her. These things are because she is leaving her marriage...

Crazy stuff affecting my mind.....help me

[Vanilla]

Your WW feels sorry for herself as she faces the consequences of her actions. So likely her tears are for herself.

If she has to be loved in a different way she has to say so. The LBS isn't a mind reader.

You are doing well, indeed this is a sign that reality is biting. Reality is a tough teacher. It's cold in the real world, with renting, furniture and new life. The dream for the wayward is that they get all.

Oh yes reality bites hard.

Sweetheart, this is on her although of course we all play a part in it. So keep your side of the street clean and keep your judgement to yourself.

There is every sign here that WW is facing the icy wind.

Gently

Hugs

V

[LiM]

75,

What do you want? Do you want to save your M if that is possible? Do you feel that it is worth fighting for?

Based on your last post, I see that your W is conflicted. That is a good thing. But if you want any hope of saving your M, forgiveness for everything MUST be on the table. If you want to save your M, you must be willing to forgive lots of things. You must be willing to forgive the A, not willing to do counseling, etc. Your W is in a fog. She can't even contemplate going to counseling while an A is ongoing. She is not herself. She is not logical. She is caught up in the fog of the A and can't think of anything other than feeding her addiction.
If you want to save your M, you have to be willing to leave the door open for her and forgive. If she thinks you will never forgive, she has no incentive to want to come back to the M.
I'll bet if you asked my W, she would also say that I couldn't forgive because of "how I am." And yet I can forgive, so long as she is willing to do the work to repair the damage she has done. Its not easy and requires more patience than I can muster. But I do it anyways because I do want my W back.
My W's A ended on April 2nd last year and she has been home since the beginning of May. The A ended because OM confessed to his W after I filed for D (and probably did so because he knew I filed for D and was probably going to expose the A to his W).
It has been HARD since then. Forgiveness is something that I have to work on daily.

[25yearsmlc]

75,

What do you want? Do you want to save your M if that is possible? Do you feel that it is worth fighting for?

Based on your last post, I see that your W is conflicted. That is a good thing. But if you want any hope of saving your M, forgiveness for everything MUST be on the table. If you want to save your M, you must be willing to forgive lots of things. You must be willing to forgive the A, not willing to do counseling, etc.

Your W is in a fog. She can't even contemplate going to counseling while an A is ongoing. She is not herself. She is not logical. She is caught up in the fog of the A and can't think of anything other than feeding her addiction.
If you want to save your M, you have to be willing to leave the door open for her and forgive. If she thinks you will never forgive, she has no incentive to want to come back to the M.


To me, this^^ is what the DB coaches means when they say "Keep the road home, paved and smooth."

It does not mean to have no boundaries, or to be a doormat.

But the scorch and burn policy helps NO ONE, even if saves you some money at the time.
A lot of money is spent on Lawyers partly b/c of the LBSer wanting to make a point.

But remember 2 things.

1) The WAW tends to have justified the A in the first place. That is hard to hear, I know.

Pardon my sexist views, but in my opinion, the women who have affairs usually feel they were justified. At least when it began.

Sometimes they had some valid points about things lacking in their marriage (which is NOT to justify the A, just saying THEY FELT justified and it wasn't always just insane or "wacky MLC" crap that got them there). Telling them they are wrong is just not effective at reaching them, even if it's true.
To be clear,

Affairs are never "right". But they are also NOT all alike. The chances of a recon after an affair, also vary and much of it depends on how the LBS reacts and behaves, now.

Some men have affairs that are solely "just for the sex", which I have never heard come from a woman. Other men have affairs that are reflections on their need for more admiration, and or their insecurities (& yes, some say they fell in love)

In any case, if a wayward spouse might someday want to come home but knows or THINKS that their LBS hates them or cannot forgive them, there is a good chance the WAS won't bother trying, even if they want to.

The WAS fears that the LBSer will hold the A over their heads like the Sword of Damocles, forever - OR throw the A in their face every time there is a fight. Or keep moving the goal post in terms of what the WAS must do to "prove" themselves and "only forgive IF IF IF...

So, how do YOU protect yourself financially WHILE also keeping that road home paved and smooth? Good question.

First, I suggest you Keep the legal & financial issues OUT of your daily conversations. How can you rebuild a friendly comfortable atmosphere if a legal battle about money keeps coming up? Especially blurting out absolutes about "never getting X", etc...

Don't throw more obstacles in the way of the road home. Do not adopt a war like stance. Let the dang Lawyers work it out! IF you are pressed, and only if, then tell your w then and there, you will "need to defer to your lawyer on that" or you will "get back to her later" (and then do let the lawyers work it all out. That is what they are paid for.)

SECONDLY, remember that when you adopt a scorched earth or rigid approach, you DO spend more on L's and sometimes it's actually more than the WAS is asking for.

Think about ^^that. You're spending more or the same as you would have, by giving the WAS what they wanted, but you are adding acrimony to it. And making it look as if things are beyond the point of no return, for her.

AND depleting assets for both of you. To what end? To teach her a lesson or punish them? As my DB coach reminded me often, Life teaches them the lesson...

Besides, depleting marital assets is money that could have been spent on the children.



I'll bet if you asked my W, she would also say that I couldn't forgive because of "how I am."


Why would she say that if she were here to explain?

From HER point of view, what would this look like? Btw, it's only when we can see things from the spouses view that we can empathize or work on ourselves and without that, we get nowhere.

And yet I can forgive, so long as she

Forgiveness does not work this^^ way, imo. If you were PIECING, (which you are not) then setting out specific boundaries for what you might need to re-establish trust, then I could see you listing out your list of requirements.

I don't see that happening this^^ way at all, however. Sorry.

I fear Your version of forgiveness is contingent on things, and that, by definition is not forgiveness.

Forgiveness is not about keeping score. You must lose the scorecard if you want to reconcile or remarry someone else, for that matter.

Scorecards are the opposite of most marriage vows. (Keeping a record of wrongs, etc)
And the weird thing we forget is that our spouses have their own scorecards and on theirs, we are NOT winning.

hence the need to have both parties ditch the scorecard. Forgiveness - is a gift we give ourselves. That's not new agey BS.

It means we let go of the pain/anger we feel at the betrayal. Sure, it's a huge struggle.


But holding onto anger b/c we think the WAS deserves it, or to punish them,


is like lighting ourselves on fire, to get smoke in their eyes. It consumes US.

When we truly dig deep and face our own part of the problems in our marriage, (which can be devastating), it helps us to ASK for forgiveness from our wayward spouses and that can help us to let go of our own pain. (It also models what asking for forgiveness looks like).

Yes It requires a brave look inward on our part. But the real journey in life is an inward one.

& then We go "from this day forward". AND IF we get another chance at this marriage, we create mutually acceptable measuring tools FOR MONITORING OUR OWN GROWTH and communication, not for keeping score or demanding proof of their worthiness.

Gosh, I really hope this^^ makes sense to you. Something makes me think that you want her back in any form, even if it's broken b/c of what she's losing out on financially but in my gut, it means that EVEN IF she tries to reconcile, it won't last. I feel as if she'd feel more trapped and desperate in time. And I'm sure you don't want that.

that are not going to happen.

is willing to do the work to repair the damage she has done. Its not easy and requires [b]more patience than I can muster.

What do you see it taking on her end?

But I do it anyways because I do want my W back.[/b]

May I ask why you want her back?

I'm being totally sincere. Can you list 3 things you love about HER?


My W's A ended on April 2nd last year and she has been home since the beginning of May. The A ended because OM confessed to his W after I filed for D (and probably did so because he knew I filed for D and was probably going to expose the A to his W).
It has been HARD since then. Forgiveness is something that I have to work on daily.

How was forgiveness modelled in your family, growing up? I found it to be a learned skill, b/c I did not see it in my childhood. I only saw it on my father's death bed.

Forgiveness is NOT the same as condonation. It's letting go of the past to start fresh and "from this day forward" which I think are brilliant words from marriage vows.

[75Shade]

Sometimes I feel like she asks me questions about separating property of divorce date to check my temperature. See how I will react so that she can calculate her reaction.

We dont see eachother often. How do you leave the road paved? What is an example? Just saying that if she ever wants to talk about this we can? She always wants to talk marriage end game and then she leaks these confusing statements.

I want to be clear. I am completely willing to forgive. I have told her this. But how do you display forgiveness? Everytime I am nice and kind she uses it as an opportunity to talk end game.