WAS vs MLC..not sure it really makes a difference

[skm0619]

25yearsmlc....my goal initially was to ask him why he never returned my call when he was the one who said he really wanted to speak to me, and also to find out what he wanted to talk about. But honestly I was also hoping that some issues could be spoken about like why he was still ignoring texts or phone calls.

I never expected to have the conversation we had.

[Gordie]

Wow. That is amazing. Thank you for sharing. You are doing great. I am glad your H opened up to you and he is trying to fix some of his issues. I am rooting for you.

[skm0619]

Gordie.....thanks for the support

I never anticipated that the conversation would go that way. I am very pleasantly surprised by his honesty. For me that says a lot about him and what he is wanting to do in his life. But something I am struggling with after the conversation is.....is all of this to make him feel better or is this to help me?

I was also proud of myself because I did validate him quite often....something I never was good at. I told him I was proud of him, and that I could see that he was making positive changes based on what he was saying and his overall tone.

I am REALLY trying not to have any expectations of him at all, but gosh it is hard not to. Don't want to set myself up for hurt

[25yearsmlc]

Gordie.....thanks for the support

I never anticipated that the conversation would go that way. I am very pleasantly surprised by his honesty. For me that says a lot about him and what he is wanting to do in his life.

Agreed

But something I am struggling with after the conversation is.....is all of this to make him feel better or is this to help me?


Sounds as if he's working on his life, what makes him happy, what motivates his choices, etc.

Not sure it had anything to do with you or the marriage, directly. Obviously there are effects on you. To be clear, I think personal growth is always a great thing.

You said he claimed to want to talk to you
But in the end, You called him. So what he said and what he did - were not in alignment.

I guess You need to ask yourself If it's his words you need to hear, or his actions you need to see.


I was also proud of myself because I did validate him quite often....something I never was good at. I told him I was proud of him, and that I could see that he was making positive changes based on what he was saying and his overall tone.

I am REALLY trying not to have any expectations of him at all, but gosh it is hard not to. Don't want to set myself up for hurt

It's always a good idea to have zero expectations. I cannot stress this enough.

It's excellent that your interactions were different, and that's b/c you validated him. Maybe he was reacting to that, or maybe not.

I don't know how the conversation ended. I just got a sense from your coverage of it, that MAYBE he said enough (a lot for him) to feel a sense of closure? That might explain him needing "courage" to call in the first place.

From your posts, it sounds as if detachment isn't what you are seeking so much as reassurance that he will return to you.

I can only say that detachment does not prevent reconciliation. If anything, it helps. But regardless, it is key to both results - recon OR living well on your own. In the event your h ever reaches out to you, you can discuss something new, different and unemotional with him.

By detaching, you grow much more than you would if you were waiting around for him to return. Otherwise, It'd be like standing in place while life passes you by.

So it makes you happier to GAL and detach, no matter what HE does.
Paradoxically, detachment and becoming happy also happens to make you more likely to attract him back.

Not saying to GAL and Detach with the goal of a reconciliation, b/c true detachment is not result oriented. I am saying that regardless of how you feel, you need to follow through with the DB basics.


IF you imagine that your h was transferred to Antartica and was truly unreachable for the next year, imagine how you would spend the year. You would not hinder down waiting...


So, What are you doing that is new or different, than before? You can join something, volunteer somewhere, study something you always wanted to study, etc. I think you said you are planning a trip to Italy this fall?

That just sounds lovely.

[skm0619]

25yearsmlc.......I appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts on my sitch.

I do agree with a lot of what you have said. The most important thing is that he is finding out that he needs to make some changes in his life and is doing that. That is a major thing for him to pursue, so I am proud of him. I also feel that we were both able to show our flaws to each other and we have not done that in a long time.

What I meant when I made the comment "was this all for him, or was it to help me" was did he tell me all of that to get things off his chest, or was it also to help me in my healing as well? I got the sense that it was both, but I just wasn't sure.

He said that during the forum he listened to people tell their "story" and he could relate to a lot of what was being said. He said it made him think about how he treated me during our marriage and after the BD. He wanted to call me on a break but didn't want to limit the time for our conversation, because he felt like it was the most important call that needed to be made, and that is why he waited to call me until the 3 days were over.

He said on a few different occasions that I was right about things I have said in the past. I told him I didn't want to be right, I just wanted things better between us. But he made sure to tell me "you were right."

He called me initially to talk and I told him I would call him back, but honestly I wasn't ready for the conversation. I texted him the next day but never got a response, so I called him. Looking back I probably should not have done that, but I was interested in what he had to say. In the conversation he did mention that me not calling him back that night was upsetting to him and he lost some momentum to call me again, and that was why he didn't call me back.

At the end of the conversation we both acknowledged that we still needed to talk about how things got to where they did in our M, and why the A happened. We also said we needed to have a conversation about where we go from here. He did say he would call me, but as we have seen in the past he has not been the greatest with that. But I am going to be open and give him the chance to show me that he is making changes. I am also going to be patient, which will be hard. But, he deserves this time for himself.

I would not be telling the truth if I said that my attempts at detaching or GAL was not to get him to come back home...because there is part of me that hopes that if I do he will. But, the rationale side of my brain says that wont work, and obviously is not the purpose for DBing. This is something I struggle with daily.

I totally agree with you when you said I need to stick with the DB basics. I actually have started to reread the book again back. I am ready to get my "happy" back again.

That was a great example about Antarctica, and what would I do if he was unreachable.

[Sotto]

Lovely to see 25yearsmlc posting again - she is one of our wisest vets and was an inspiration to me on moving forward with my own life and rediscovering myself.

Okay - what has happened has happened and your H has shared some things. He is on a journey right now - and in many ways a positive one. Better to be looking at inward stuff than 'running' from yourself (ie: by having an A or whatever..)

However, he is also not saying positive stuff about the M right now and he doesn't sound to be in a place where he's considering reconciliation right now - that could change of course.

Your own desperate need for reassurance is what led you to prompt the contact I think. And that is something important to own and deal with. Why do I need this man so much? Am I okay alone for now? How can I make this okay for me - however things may unfold?

In your posts, your focus is all on your H - and it really does need to be on you. I promise you that if you can leave him be for now, and put your energy into your own life - it will serve you well, no matter how things unfold with your M.

In 25yearsmlc's case, she and her H were S for 2.5 years and she very much rebuilt her life, extending outside her comfort zone, building her confidence and living independently.

Apart from helping you see there is a good life beyond this marriage - it also helps adjust the power balance - ie: you have a good life anyway - and are not desperate to get back together at any cost.

So, what I'd really like you to do is outline some key goals just for you for 2017 and some early steps you're going to take towards these. And the goals should be all about you and the life you want to live going forward independent of your H - of course he may decide he wants to join the party again at some point..and that's up to him - and would be up to you too, if that happens..

Good luck with everything Skm... xx

[25yearsmlc]

25yearsmlc.......I appreciate you taking the time to give me your thoughts on my sitch.

You're truly welcome.

I do agree with a lot of what you have said. The most important thing is that he is finding out that he needs to make some changes in his life and is doing that. That is a major thing for him to pursue, so I am proud of him. I also feel that we were both able to show our flaws to each other and we have not done that in a long time.

What I meant when I made the comment "was this all for him, or was it to help me" was did he tell me all of that to get things off his chest, or was it also to help me in my healing as well? I got the sense that it was both, but I just wasn't sure.


If it helps you heal, then so be it. Does it have to be his intention? I guess I don't understand that.

He said that during the forum he listened to people tell their "story" and he could relate to a lot of what was being said. He said it made him think about how he treated me during our marriage and after the BD. He wanted to call me on a break but didn't want to limit the time for our conversation, because he felt like it was the most important call that needed to be made, and that is why he waited to call me until the 3 days were over.

But to be clear, you did call him and you did ask him why he had not called you, correct? Perhaps next time you can let him initiate b/c the way it reads to me, is that he could have felt immediately defensive if the first thing out of your mouth was a "why didn't you" type of remark.

Btw, A wonderful DB coach told me to avoid questions like "How could you...?" and "Why?" in general. They tend to elicit defensive reactions.

He said on a few different occasions that I was right about things I have said in the past. I told him I didn't want to be right, I just wanted things better between us. But he made sure to tell me "you were right."

He called me initially to talk and I told him I would call him back, but honestly I wasn't ready for the conversation. I texted him the next day but never got a response, so I called him. Looking back I probably should not have done that, but I was interested in what he had to say. In the conversation he did mention that me not calling him back that night was upsetting to him and he lost some momentum to call me again, and that was why he didn't call me back.

At the end of the conversation we both acknowledged that we still needed to talk about how things got to where they did in our M, and why the A happened.

Be careful what you wish for.

If he regrets it and knows you are very hurt, and promises not to do it again and whatever else the experts suggest, perhaps that can be enough. Perhaps the real work then is on your end, letting it go. Never holding it over his head like the sword of Damocles and not throwing it in his face when you two argue.

So be careful about digging into all the gritty details unless you are SURE you can handle them. I just don't see a lot of "good" answers. "She was prettier/nicer/younger/more adoring" or "I was mad at you", etc....how will you feel if any of those come up as the reason? Plus, please do not involve his parents. I may have confused your story but did you tell his parents? Just saying then the dynamic he has with them ends up being a factor in your marriage and not a good one.

Or the "I don't know why..."? Maybe it's not about what happened but where you go "From this day forward"...

We also said we needed to have a conversation about where we go from here. He did say he would call me, but as we have seen in the past he has not been the greatest with that.

then perhaps a long in depth conversation he's never had before with you, was quite enough for now. I would not expect him to call soon. He's processing a lot and I would not call him either, if I were you. Better to GAL and detach and back off, to see him when he's ready, than to push and push him away "but sooner".

Here is a quote I found somewhere that seems apropos.

You are trying to guess or forecast the outcome...because it's uncertain.
It's because it IS uncertain.

let it be uncertain.

Don't ask, you may confirm things for him. STFU.

Switch off, detach from the outcome.

Let it unfold

Another quote stolen elsewhere here.

We often are so eager to know the outcome now and eliminate ambiguity and uncertainty. Pushing for certainty will most often result in pushing WAS away and towards being certain they want out.



But I am going to be open and give him the chance to show me that he is making changes. I am also going to be patient, which will be hard. But, he deserves this time for himself.
[color:#3366FF]
How about "I am going to use this gift of time to work on ME"?

You're in his sandbox and he's working in it right now. Perhaps you have a sandbox of your own that you could be working on.

If he wants to change then he will. The question is whether you will react in the same way without checking him first.

I know it's hard. The temperature taking and the guesswork, but it's SO UNHELPFUL.

please stay in your emotional sandbox and work on you.


[/color]

I would not be telling the truth if I said that my attempts at detaching or GAL was not to get him to come back home...because there is part of me that hopes that if I do he will.

But, the rationale side of my brain says that wont work, and obviously is not the purpose for DBing. This is something I struggle with daily.

I totally agree with you when you said I need to stick with the DB basics. I actually have started to reread the book again back. I am ready to get my "happy" back again.

That was a great example about Antarctica, and what would I do if he was unreachable.

[skyhigh]

Skm, wow you did great! You showed him that you changed.

Don't be upset by his comments on how are his views on you right now, he is still in full replay. My WH used to be quite "mean" too, so I know how hurtful it can be which is not the case anymore but it took a while to reach that point, so be patient, remember MLC is a journey, it takes years from start to finish.

So proud of you. Confrontation never works with a MLCer but listening and validating can go a long way. Now, please don't wait for his next call/message, open yourself to the world and start something that can bring you some happiness a.k.a. GAL.

Meanwhile keep working on you, detach +++, when you detach you lessen your emotional pain and also the tension between the LBS and the WH. It's like wrapping your heart with bubble wrap, it absorbs the shock of their insanity before it hits you. Detachment doesn't mean you don't have feeling anymore for him but it means that you don't let his negative feelings/comments/sarcasms... to bring you down.
Next reading I might suggest is the thread on pursuit and distance. That's also something I did.

25yearsMLC is so right on target with her advice.

[skm0619]

Sotto, skyhigh, 25yearsmlc ...... thank you for all of your comments and opinions. I am so very thankful for this place

I made sure to read the detachment thread and all of the comments that everyone made to me about when we did have the conversation, and it really helped me to stay calm.

Sotto....you are right when you say it was my need for reassurance. I know I don't need him in my life I WANT him in it, but I cant just sit around and wait. I have lived by myself and supported myself through all of this so I know I can do it. I have made a promise to myself that I would leave him alone and focus on me.

25yearsmlc....as far as us needing to have a conversation was about us needing to discuss why the A happened, how we got to that point. But I also need to think if it is really that important to see where we used to be instead of trying to move forward.

Unfortunately we have already had the painful gritty conversation about what happened during the A and all of those painful details. I just had to know certain things and now I regret it because I have those images in my head. I would tell people not to have that conversation....it does no good.

Skyhigh....I remember you telling me that if I just listened he would keep talking and that is what he did. I am going to read the pursuit and distance thread again.

Not going to lie, it did hurt me a lot when he said those mean things to me But I cant let that stop me from trying to move forward, or to dwell on them.

One day at a time.....

[skm0619]

Not much really going on here, just thought I would journal a bit.

I was looking through my car today and came across where I had put all of my CDs. I was looking through them and found one that my H made me before we got married. I did the worst thing I could do.....I put it in the player and listened to it.

I have not cried like that in a long time It was full of songs that were talking about falling in love, being in love, making a life together, etc. It made me feel like a terrible person.

He really put his heart out there when he made that CD for me. It made me think....."why did I treat him the way I did?" I have owned up to my mistakes in the marriage. Yes I could have been more affectionate, yes I know I could have been a better wife to him. I messed up and now I am paying for it big time.

He was always trying to give me affection and sometimes I would turn away from him. He told me he loved me everyday. When I would tell him I loved him first his face would light up and he would say "that makes me so happy to hear you say that." How could I have treated him that way? How could I not see that all this man wanted was for me to love him. No wonder he looked for affection/words of affirmation from someone else. The one person he wanted it from the most would not give it to him.

I have not spoken to him since our last conversation where he acknowledged the mistakes he made in our marriage. How he was learning to work on himself. How he doesn't think about the A, or have guilt or shame like he used to. How he doesn't think about me.

Why the H*LL did I have to listen to that CD?