So Confused and Conflicted (3)

[KevinIn]

How long does it tend to take a heart to soften, if it's going to soften?

I was wondering the same thing for the past 3 months. Then it happened last Sunday, when I threw her for a loop by supporting her decision to move out, see a mediator, and start the separation process. It was a DB 180 technique suggested by my DB coach, and it worked. Since then, she has been somewhat friendly to me.

However, this has caused all sorts of new issues with me that i'm working through. Read my thread #2 thread #2 for more details.

[WshIKnw]

Have you read the 5 Love Languages? It could be that you were on completely different wavelengths in terms of your love needs. As has been said, this will have been building up for some time, and it takes 2 to communicate openly.

At the minute, it's not about blame. It's about finding out how to be the best you, whatever the future holds.

My sister gave me the book after her husband left her, but I foolishly didn't read it until after my wife dropped the bomb. I just thought I knew what I was doing. W had been with me for a good while and things seemed great. I didn't think I needed to read any books. My primary language is physical touch. My wife's primary languages, unfortunately, are quality time and services. So, I was showing love to her mostly via physical touch, but the way she needed to receive love was by doing things with her and doing chores around the house, that kind of thing, which I was stubborn about doing, and rarely initiated doing things with her, but mostly went along with doing things she wanted to do. If only she would let me learn how to be a good husband with her, instead of forcing me to apply what I have learned here to someone else. We don't need new spouses to learn how to be good spouses, but so many people would rather just give up and start new with someone else.

[Dawgs]

If only she would let me learn how to be a good husband with her, instead of forcing me to apply what I have learned here to someone else. We don't need new spouses to learn how to be good spouses, but so many people would rather just give up and start new with someone else.

So much truth in that. Mine told me that she shouldn't have been expected to tell me and that I should have known. But then again, how was I supposed to know? Especially after not being told of all the abuse until after BD?

[WshIKnw]

Wsh -
I notice in a lot of your posts there's a "yeah, but" to them. Here's the thing, if your wife felt it, then it was real TO HER. Theres nobody 'defending' her, instead, what Jeep was trying to do was for you to look at those words from your wife's point of view. You say "i didnt mean this or that" or "It wasnt in that way" or whatever. But like I said before, I think you need to look at things from a different perspective.

If your wife felt demeaned, then you were demeaning. It doesnt matter what your intent may have been.

Now, going forward, it isnt about what you say to her. It isnt about taking blame. It isnt about apologizing.

It's about BEING THE CHANGE. How can you take the valuable information that she gave you and mold yourself into the man you want to be? Im not saying every item on her list has merit. I am saying that you need to filter it so that you can set goals for yourself to make personal change.

I think you make a good point. I have often been of the opinion that if I don't think you being offended by what I've done is reasonable, then I'm not going to take responsibility or apologize for my action. But that mindset got me in trouble with my wife a lot. I see absolutely no reason for her to think that I don't want her to think highly of herself, simply because I don't like boastfulness. But to her, it probably seemed that way -- that I didn't want her to think highly of herself. I always tried to explain to her that I wanted her to have a good self esteem, but that there is a difference between thinking complimentary things about yourself in your head and saying them to other people -- a difference between humility and boastfulness. But just because I see it that way, that doesn't mean she does. And whether or not she has a good reason to feel like I don't want her to feel good about herself, that's how she feels about it, and I don't want her to feel that way about it, because then she thinks I'm a jerk, and that's obviously not good.

So, instead, I need to learn to try to understand other people's feelings, rather than argue that they shouldn't have them. I have been very guilty of not doing this, with my wife. I need to empathize with how people feel -- imagine feeling that way myself -- and then work to change the way they feel. If I have to accept that they feel that way as a result of me doing X, then that's what I have to accept, and maybe just don't do X. Just don't complain when she compliments herself. Bite my tongue, and fight more important battles. Maybe just tell her, "I'm glad you have a positive self esteem." I don't know if I could continue biting my tongue when she responds to my compliments with "mmhmm" ("I know"), because that really hurts my feelings and makes me feel like she doesn't value my compliments. I always had issues with her complimenting herself, but I don't think the "mmhmm"s started until the last several months of our marriage. She was showing resentment, I think. We still got along very well, though. So, it was still a major shock when she dropped the bomb.

[sandi2]

I think a lot will be determined in how well you drop the emotional you have tied around her.......and how well she sees you being a strong, confident, man that she has lost.

I left out a word. My typing is not as fast as my thinking. I meant to say how well you drop the emotional rope you have tied around her.

Wanted to follow up on this. If there is OM and her family is also against him then how will she even recognize any positive changes in him? Even if she does then would she even care? Better yet, would she even care enough to want to return and work on the M? Yes, self improvement is what needs to happen and I agree that he needs to release the emotional attachments he has on her. However, not for the M, but for himself in case she doesn't find her way back.

If the H is doing a good job of dropping the rope and living his life as if he is moving forward, then she will begin to hear bits of conversation from others, or she'll run into him somewhere.

If her parents have always been a thorn in your flesh, the best gift to give yourself is stay as far away from them as possible. Your WW may have a long running affair with the OM. Her parents may initially stroke him as their way of showing favor for the new guy......but it will fade. We can't make some folks like us. If you don't know why they don't like you......then you live by your own values & standards, and keep your distance from them. Your W chose you once before, and when reality hits........she can choose you again, no matter what her parents say.

As long as you are held prisoner of a fearful mindset, you will not radiate the confidence that is so attractive to women. The WW has to have a view of her reality, and she has to experience a loss. If you can mentally let her go, if will free you to move forward in living like you want.........instead of living like someone else wants. At the moment, you don't want anything but your W. Everyone who has walked in LBS shoes that came through the fire will tell you when they started GAL for real......and made improvements for themselves, was key in finding themselves and feeling good about it. They saw they could be happy with or without their S.

[sandi2]

Thank you, Sandi. I will read over this several times. I want to note that at one point, you made it sound like I was very dependent on her. I don't know whether you meant to, but she was actually the very dependent, needy one, always pulling on me for stuff, which is how I was able to be the neglectful one

It is not a healthy emotional balance for either, or both, spouses when they make the other one their entire world.......as you can testify to how your W's dependence wore you down to the point of neglect. It drains the R. We need more than just one person in our world. That's not to say it will decrease your feelings for your S, but expand it.

None of them will hardly talk to me, and now I can barely get my wife to say anything to me either. Is there any sort of time frame to this? My wife keeps gradually doing things toward breakup. Her latest thing has been to talk to me and visit me much less. I don't know whether her lawyer has advised her to do that. How long does it tend to take a heart to soften, if it's going to soften?

When a woman has another man waiting in the wings, she is likely to give her H a cold shoulder to convince him she is done with their M. The more the H tries to get her to talk to him........or anything else.......the colder she will get. In many cases when the H finally lets go, she actually becomes friendlier. There is no time frame for when she softens her heart. IMHO, the first day she realizes the H has dropped the rope, will be the first day for softening her. That doesn't mean she immediately changes her direction.......b/c other things come into play, but for her to sense you are through (which is not the same thing as neglect) and moving on without her.......has an emotional affect on her.

[Dawgs]

It is not a healthy emotional balance for either, or both, spouses when they make the other one their entire world

This can not be stated strongly enough.

[WshIKnw]

Man, what would lead a person to be someone's best friend and lover for 10 years, being very good to that person throughout that time period, to just all of a sudden cut the person out of their lives and sever all ties and affection? That's cruel. I could never do that to someone.

[Dawgs]

Man, what would lead a person to be someone's best friend and lover for 10 years, being very good to that person throughout that time period, to just all of a sudden cut the person out of their lives and sever all ties and affection? That's cruel. I could never do that to someone.

I have wondered that very same thing and still don't have an answer. Mine ran because her past affects her present. But, still that's no excuse. I just don't know how they'd just so coldly turn on us. Like you, she was my best friend and lover. I had no idea it was coming...sigh. I guess some questions will never be answered.

[WshIKnw]

Is it possible that men develop a stronger attachment than women to their mate? It's usually women that break up relationships, and it's usually men, it seems like, that obsess over the loss, but that of course would be the case, if they are usually the ones dumped.