Newbie, need help with WAW!

[180Man]

Are you saying since she reads you so well, you might as well blabber about your feelings?

Well, not quite. I just worry the temptation will be too easy for me to want to be open with her and express all of my thoughts and feelings. I've always had the feeling that being open and honest in our relationship with how we're feeling is the best path, so I worry I would revert back to that.

You are not a puppet who has no control over his own body. Can you not keep your mouth closed and not break down in tears in front of her?

I won't break down in tears, but opening my mouth is what I'm worried about.

If you just have to give her that little meeting she wants, then you call the place and time. I suggest somewhere public.....to help control bad behavior from her and help keep your emotions in check.

Yep, already done. She wanted to meet this past Wednesday at a coffee shop and time which she had picked. Told her I was busy, gave her a date a week later. She was busy at that proposed time/date due to a work trip. She said when she would be back, so I emailed back and proposed a new time and date at a totally different coffee shop, to which she agreed.

Then just listen. That's all you have to do. You can validate by saying, "I hear what you are saying", or just nod your head. You don't have to kiss her rear. You don't try, again, to change her mind. If things start to get out of hand, then immediately inform her the meeting is over, and quickly exit. Can you not do that?

Remember, you do not have to agree to anything. You are there to hear what she has to say. If she tries to talk you into signing something, or whatever, tell her you agreed to hear her out and that's all. Anything else you will have to think about it.

You are the 180 Man, so do a 180 and don't be an open book with her. Let her wonder what you are thinking/feeling.

Yes, I think I can do this. I just thought your posts on how to treat a WW conflicted with the validation approach. She is not quite a WW in the sense that the A has been over since Nov and she has been renting a room from a single mom (I kicked her out when I first learned what happened...tried to get her to move home as we worked through counseling but she said it didn't feel like the right time yet...and that time never came because she asked for a D 5 weeks ago). But anyways, it was confusing for me to see how to approach her and visualize how the conversation might go. I know I'm probably over thinking this, but I want to go prepared and ready to handle it.

[MoveFrwd]

What would an example conversation look like that validates in the manner the validation thread shows but also shows the husband's strength? I think I have trouble seeing how this conversation would play out with my wife.

You say you are going to be 'strong'.

Maybe start with your examples of what you think she may say and how youd respond?

[180Man]

You say you are going to be 'strong'.

Maybe start with your examples of what you think she may say and how youd respond?

Okay, that's a good idea. I will just try a handful for now...in no particular order...

Her: How are you?
Me: Really good.

Her: How's work?
Me: Pretty good, I've started a new position that's a lot more engaging and I'm back working on X project which I'm pretty excited about.

Her: So what have you been up to?
Me: (do i tell her what i've been doing to GAL or withhold it?...not sure how to approach this?)

Me: How's work?
Her: Really busy, we're doing x, y, and z and our schedule has been crazy. Etc.
Me: X, y, and Z? Wow, that's a lot to deal with and must be very stressful.

Her: I'm changing my phone number
Me: Okay. Let me know when it's done and I'll take you off our plan.

Her: I think we've grown apart. We have been great roommates and great friends, but we just can't make each other happy any more.
Me: I'm so sorry that you felt unloved and disconnected from me. I never stopped loving you, but I guess I didn't express myself well enough. When did you start to feel this way?

Her: I started to feel this way around X time when Y happened.
Me: I hadn't thought of it that way, but I can see how that would have made you feel

Her: I'm moving to country/state X (this is highly likely, btw, possibly as soon as summer).
Me: Oh, that should be really interesting OR Oh, that sounds like it'll be kinda shitty (depending on where it is...)

Her: How's the dog?
Me: She's doing great (but misses you? do I play that card?)

Her: (If she says something about the house)
Me: Look, that's not what I came here to talk about. I've been thinking about it, but I'm not ready to deal with a decision that big.

Her: (If she says something about the finances)
Me: That's not what I came here to talk about, I've been thinking about it, but i'm ready to delve into that

Her: (If she says something about the few things she has left in the house (she already took most of her stuff while I was out of town helping her family with a medical emergency...yup, shitty)
Me: It bothers me when you come to the house when I'm not there. I gave you a key for a very different reason. Of course you can have your stuff whenever you want, but please tell me when. (I changed the locks the first weekend after finding out about the A. We had already bought new locks for the whole house so I just put them on. About two weeks later I gave her a key in counseling and told her there was no pressure but I wanted her to know she had the option to come home whenever she felt it was right).

Her: (If she comes back and says something like...it's our house, i'm still paying for half of it, I can come whenever I want...)
Me: You are and you can come whenever, but i'm asking you to respect my privacy and come when I'm there.


As I'm typing these I really become filled with doubt. What is validation going to lead to? I have coffee with her, validate her to the best of my ability, attempt to end the meeting at my discretion if able, and then....what happens? She's going to email me again asking for another coffee date? I just don't see it. I understand that getting us both in the same room after five or six weeks of not seeing each other is a good thing, but how does this lead to a second meeting?

Thank you for reading through this. I really appreciate any feedback you guys have time to give.

[KevinIn]

180 - great scripting. Im keeping this for myself.

The point is to have many DB opportunities over time. Its a marathon, not a sprint. So yes, if she asks for coffee again, thats good and yet another time to surprise her with more validating statements that are DBing opportunities.

[Deckard]

Hey 180,

This isn't just about validating W feelings. This is about you projecting that you are going to be okay regardless of what happens here (you know that right? If you end up D, you will be okay.). If she asks about what you are doing, don't give specifics, be vague. Don't tell her you want her back and will help her move back in. She already knows that.

Has there been a time during this process that W has ever felt like she may be losing you? A little after the A was discovered, but after that?

And you are going to ask if that just doesn't make it seem like you are ok with the D and accepting it. That's fear, and you can't let it rule you. The point is to move from the pursuer to the pursued.

[180Man]

Hey 180,

This isn't just about validating W feelings. This is about you projecting that you are going to be okay regardless of what happens here (you know that right? If you end up D, you will be okay.). If she asks about what you are doing, don't give specifics, be vague. Don't tell her you want her back and will help her move back in. She already knows that.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah...I guess I know that. This morning at work I was feeling pretty good, even thinking about some minor career moves/contacts I could make this week to help me down the road. But then I went to grab some lunch and it hit me again. I think part of her reasoning for D is she thinks I would be better off without her and that makes me sad. And of course even more sad if I start to think about her deciding for herself that she'd be better off without me. Came home just now and the dog was here waiting for me, she has certainly been affected by my W's absence. And there's the house...which, like any house, has stuff that needs to be fixed and it can feel overwhelming at times.

But...I'm going to clean the kitchen, go to the gym, and then keep working on my to-do list the rest of the night. Need to find an open mic night, hopefully sometime this week. Going to clean my sports car which has been collecting dust in the garage since this all started. Need to find a hair stylist who can give me a proper haircut rather than the standard buzz cut I normally get. Take the dog to the dog park. Maybe play some video games. That should get me through the rest of the day and hopefully tomorrow will be just a little bit better, and so on...

Has there been a time during this process that W has ever felt like she may be losing you? A little after the A was discovered, but after that?

Immediately after the A was discovered, but other than that, no. I see what you mean, you make a really good point. I was thinking about how to end our upcoming conversation (Monday) on the drive home today. I need to find some polite yet firm words that I can use. Initially I was thinking something like "Okay, it was nice seeing you, we should both go think about what we've talked about and sit down for coffee again," but now I'm more inclined toward "Okay, it was nice seeing you, I'm going to think about what we've talked about. Bye."

No "see you later" or "we should meet again for coffee," because even though this is a minor and seemingly innocent statement, it will take away from me going dark immediately thereafter. I also need to figure out how to end the conversation at a time of my choosing without interrupting her or being awkward about the timing. Or maybe I'm over-thinking it again...

And you are going to ask if that just doesn't make it seem like you are ok with the D and accepting it. That's fear, and you can't let it rule you. The point is to move from the pursuer to the pursued.

Yes, I have recently read the sticky thread about pursuer/distancer and also saw it in a book I was reading in December (I think it was in "Hold Me Tight" but I've read so much lately it's hard to keep track. Good book, either way, but Emotionally Focused Therapy is a hard approach for an emotional avoider to buy off on....just ask my wife!). Anyways, I'll probably read through it again, I think that is exactly what's going on. I was on the phone with my friend last night talking about this and stumbled on an email from my W from 2010. She was upset at me at the time for being the distancer -- I was slow to get into this relationship initially because I was hung up on ex-gf baggage. I guess I know how my W felt now...

[180Man]

You say you are going to be 'strong'.

Maybe start with your examples of what you think she may say and how youd respond?

Okay, got a few more of these I have been thinking about today. I need some help with some of them.


Her: Are you still going to church?
Me: Yes (this is the truth and I don't think there's much else to say...)

Her: I want you to sign these divorce papers
Me: I agreed to come to hear you out, that's all. I'll have to think about it. (take them or not??)

Her: If she tries to give me her rings back
Me: No I gave them to you, those are yours forever, I don't need them back.

Her: I've been worried about you hurting yourself.
Me: Thanks, but I'm doing fine. (And yes, DB, I am fine. I was pretty distraught at first and her step-mother violated my trust and told my W how I was immediately after it happened. Grrrr, inlaws! I didn't have a choice, step-mom was there immediately after my W dropped the bomb and stayed with me at the house for a week. She flew out from the other side of the country to support me specifically. Amazing woman, heart in the right place, but...not helpful to have her trying to be the middle man.)

Her: Are you thinking about telling my boss what happened? (this would ruin her and OM's careers)
Me: What you tell your boss is none of my business anymore

Her: What questions do you have? OR Do you have any questions for me?
Me: No, the facts seem pretty clear.

Backup plan to redirect the conversation: How's your step-father doing? (he had a stroke a few weeks ago) Open to additional ideas for changing the subject.

How to end the conversation on my terms without being awkward?
Me: Ok, this has been a really good conversation. I'm going to go home and think about things. See you later. (if SHE goes in for a hug, just give her a regular friend type hug) Is "See you later" too much, should I use "Take care of yourself" instead? That seems somewhat final...

Ones I don't have good answers to....

Her: I think you should date other women
Me: .....

Her: I think we should just be friends
Me: .....

And I know this has been covered on DB before and I'm going to go back and read some of those threads again, but...do I wear my ring? I know it's a personal choice. I'm wearing it now, it means a lot to me. Not the ring itself, I'm actually wearing an $8 silicon ring I bought last summer so I don't lose my finger at work, but the meaning of the ring is important to me. That being said, I think not wearing it may enhance the mysteriousness of what I'm thinking. Yes, no?

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

[180Man]

Lots of good responses to ForGump's first thread about wearing your ring or not. I will continue wearing it until D is final, I'm wearing it right now. But I am leaning toward taking it off for this coffee meeting. Sounds weird, I guess, but I think it's probably the right move and will support how I act/react when I go in there to validate and show her I'm doing just fine.

Still looking for feedback on the other stuff in my posts above. Ty!

[MoveFrwd]

Lots of good responses to ForGump's first thread about wearing your ring or not. I will continue wearing it until D is final, I'm wearing it right now. But I am leaning toward taking it off for this coffee meeting. Sounds weird, I guess, but I think it's probably the right move and will support how I act/react when I go in there to validate and show her I'm doing just fine.

Still looking for feedback on the other stuff in my posts above. Ty!

Haven't had a chance to really review all of your posts but this is a dumb move. Wear it or don't wear it. Don't use it to try to get a reaction out of her. This is about your personal decision and what being married and wearing a ring symbolizes to you.

[KevinIn]

How to end the conversation on my terms without being awkward?
Me: Ok, this has been a really good conversation. I'm going to go home and think about things. See you later. (if SHE goes in for a hug, just give her a regular friend type hug) Is "See you later" too much, should I use "Take care of yourself" instead? That seems somewhat final...

I like your response - "This conversations has been good. Thank you. Talk to you later." Just like you would say to a business colleague.

Ones I don't have good answers to....

Her: I think you should date other women
Me: .....

Her: I think we should just be friends
Me: .....

Her: I think you should date other women
You: I appreciate your thoughts, but the joy in my life is not your responsibility. I'm going to do what I need to do to make myself happy. My DB coach gave me this line for a similar situation.

Her: I think we should just be friends
You: I look forward to us us always being amicable.