Hi Blu, I'm sorry to read your post today and here are my thoughts - along with a big hug for you ((((Blu))))
Piecing is really tough - everyone says it - and if it isn't tough, there's probably some rug sweeping going on...
I would be as authentic as you can with your H. You really appreciate the effort and commitment he shows - I know you have posted that here.
Also, you are struggling to get beyond all that has happened. That isn't surprising. Because infidelity is truly a trauma that undercuts those things we held most dear and thought were secure.
I recall a highly respected poster - I think Underdog - posting about a set of CDs on forgiveness that were a real life changer for her. I'll see if I can find that and post if for you..
Also, I agree with what is posted above. I think his behaviour is his to own and he needs to invest in helping you (and himself) heal from these events. Your own feelings about what has happened and towards him are yours to own, process and work through.
Have you guys considered Retrouvaille as an alternative to MC?
And finally, you have come a long way (whilst things feel rough right now) - why not work on the basis of - nothing needs to be decided today - I need to think about that - and just give yourself a little time to work things through..
Xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
I can also recall a book by Jean Safer being mentioned...not one I know though..
And the other thought is Dear Peggy on forgiveness.
I recall reading something she wrote. It went along the lines of - either way forgiveness needs to come. You may heal together and forgive. You may heal alone and forgive. But either way it will come...
Xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Thank you for taking the time to read and post, everyone. And to all of you invisible readers--I was where you are just a few short years ago. I think if I had started posting when I was a LBS, it could have really helped me. ... I want to address all of you individually.
25, you have given me a lot to think about. Partly, I like the blue print, as it is easy to read your replies:-) ... I soon realized I had a typo, and what I meant to ask is if you were happier before BD not DB. I agree that DB is a life approach and I think there are tools we can use in all of our Rs.
The reason I asked if you were happier now is because I have read/heard that if your M can recover from an A, it can be stronger. I can't seem to get there, but I do agree that I have work to do on the forgiveness process. Plus, even if the M doesn't survive, I don't want to be a scorned woman. I want to genuinely forgive him.
What have I done to help let go of chit/replaying?
I went to IC and we went to MC for a year Read/posted here Read books on forgiveness Learned to "thought stop" Talked to friends about it I freely allow sadness and happiness in my life Focus more on Rs and GAL that are postive Try to understand how it happened and make sense of it Try to appreciate his changes and good qualities Let go of control of sitches & others, including him
It doesn't seem to matter. It always resurfaces. It often doesn't evoke emotions but I can't quite move passed it.
Even if we spend time together and go on dates, feelings of closeness are short lived. I have always been the more type A and initiator in the M. So when you remove that from the equation, he seems sheepish. I am finding this less attractive. I have called him out on it and he says that he is afraid to get close to me as he knows he will keep getting hurt.
The triggers that make me wish he never came back are just the overall feelings of hopelessness. That I know now that I'll be okay without him. I didn't know that before, I was too wounded. I do wonder if I just wanted to win him back and he has asked me that all along. I don't know. What I really want is to feel the way I did about him for all those years. I adored and trusted this man for so long.
I can list so many reasons to make this work. I can't even think of many to leave, but the A alone feels like more than enough. It's just always sitting there.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
I know I sound like a WAS and I do think I am closer to that than to a LBS, however I know better than that. Even if I wanted to pick up and leave (or kick him out), I wouldn't do that. He is my H and he is my family. We owe it to family to try and understand, tolerate and forgive. I want to do what is best for everyone in this sitch, especially the kids. That year we were separated was hard on everyone. Plus, I'm a smart gal, and I know the grass isn't greener.
What would my advise be to H pre-BD to make the M work? Gah! That's a hard question because when I think back to pre-A, even though life was hard, we were still so close! Was I a fool? Starting to wonder.
But what would I tell him? (And what should I tell myself)
M is hard and it will always change. We have to have patience with one another and with ourselves. Sometimes space is healthy and good. Don't do things that you will regret, need to hide, or that you cannot feel proud of. Being right isn't better than understanding. Go easy on yourself and let things go. Do and treat others as you want to be treated. In time, everything will work out if you believe in yourself.
That was hard! Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
JR, I am thinking about it. I guess I just don't feel up to it--it's painful and exhausting. And expensive. The MC also had told us that I need to come to terms with this and there was only so much he could do to help with that. She also said that not everyone can. He thinks going is the only way this can work.
C-nut, hello buddy, long time no see. You may be right that H feels like I am punishing him. I dont mean to, I just feel detached, but I can understand that point of view. I don't worry about him walking away. He needs to do what he needs to do and I will be fine in this life with or without him. So I don't even worry about that.
In terms of us taking a break, well that would be a good start if we decide to go our own ways. It's complicated tho and we would need to sell the house first. We live in a very expensive part of the country and I don't think either of us could stay here on one income. We have a very nice house in one of the best neighborhoods. I love my home. I also don't want to hurt the kids again--they are all doing so much better with our family as one unit. I wish I could take a 2 week vacay! Lol. I have been taking a few days here and there, but that is not possible.
In my sitch, I really don't think absence will make the heart grow fonder, I wish it was that easy!
Even tho H has been back for 2 years, I would not say we are actively piecing. I think right now we are prioritizing what needs to be done and just finding our own way.
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
Doodler, do you have a photo of said guy? Just in case. Well, you know.
Sotto, thank you for those kind words. I very much appreciate your support and the sentiment. I will def read more about this! I would also like to know more about Retrouvaille, especially how it was for someone that is not catholic.
(((Coly))) Hugs right back!
Blu
“Forgiveness liberates the soul. It removes fear. That is why it is such a powerful weapon.” – Nelson Mandela
BluWave -- understood on the MC. I went twice with my W before I realized she was faking it and had no interest in R. So, different dynamic, but I saw some promise in it had both of us been motivated to try really hard. It was going to take a lot of visits, though, so expense is a very real consideration, too.
As I read your posts, it almost seems like your H really needs to DB, GAL and drop the rope a bit. The script has been almost completely flipped. As your standard LBH, I never really stopped to think about what it would have been like had I ever gotten to piecing; it seems incredibly difficult. Hang in there!
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
I haven't read through all your threads, but my heart started aching for you ... and for me ... as I read your most recent updates on this one.
H and I are three years into piecing, and I *still* grieve what "was." Like, our favorite movie has always been The Notebook ... since before the *first* A. Now, I get so angry when I flip through the TV and see it's on.
I still grieve. HARD. But it's like you said: some days/weeks/months are better than others. And then - WHAM! - something takes me back. "Triggers" most times.
Quite a bit of what 25 wrote a few posts back stood out to me, especially the parts where she, too, said that - no - she isn't "happier" now.
Let me add this as food for thought: what we're grieving may FEEL like the loss of what we remember as a good, solid, healthy relationship. But clearly it wasn't healthy. It wasn't "good." At least not for our spouses. And *that* is where we can start *our* inner work. We are grieving, as Wonka often points out, the innocence our Rs once had ... and not necessarily the Rs themselves.
Also, fwiw, my H and I, once we entered piecing, made a habit of going out every Saturday. Three years later, we still go out at least every other weekend. Though I've cried through some of those dates, my H has created new memories for me through them: memories of his new-found patience and tenderness, love and understanding. Every time I melt down and he stands there and tells me it's okay, and that he will give me as much space ... or as many reassurances ... as I need, he continues earning and building my trust.
We will still hurt, but we have to keep our eyes open for those steps they're taking. Otherwise, it's too easy to allow the hurt and pain to cause us to overlook baby steps (or even gigantic ones) they're making.
Find the place where you can start with him - somewhere where there's a glimmer of happiness and hope. And then work from there. You might have to stay in one place for a while. That's fine. Have patience with yourself. This process is as much about taking care of you as it is taking care of your M.
(And PS many people - including me - have found themselves right back here after the first BD/A because they/we *didn't* take our time in piecing. We moved too quickly through the motions. So take your time and take heart, okay? )
I wish I had better words of experience and wisdom. But just know, at the very least, that you are absolutely not alone in your feelings. Every day that you make a choice to wake up and try again is a day that you might be closer to finding a NEW normal and a REAL kind of happiness. Even if you *always* grieve what you once thought you had.
Stay strong.
M: 40 H: 44 Married 14 years S11 & D6; D20 & D19 from previous M 2BDs/PAs, 8 years apart Piecing: April 2014
