Moored

[ciluzen]

Wow, HaWho. That would be some major MLCer behavior, right there. Is he still ignoring you?

He really must be waging quite the battle in his head. I'm going to guess that his views on older adults are that they are hideous, worthless, incapable, weak, and feable. A bother. Are those his views? Or has he spoken of them as wise, experienced, emotionally strong and vital? An asset to the community and familial balance.

Its tough to be our MLCers. They seem to really fear aging. And change. That's why (presumably) they are "stuck". I mean, really, if everything is so bad with you, why hasn't he left? Well, fear for one. And you, you mother figure you, take care of him and are steadily there and consistant in your ability to put up with his b.s. (not take it, but put up with it by not flipping out and telling him to leave or leaving yourself). As much as he complains or treats you with P/A behavior, he considers you reliable. I'm sure seeing you go on to get a new job disturbed him...you took on change with excitement. He sees change as fearsome. If you can do that, in his eyes, maybe you will change you're way of treating him?

And then, as he probably is feeling that by getting "old" he is becoming one of those worthless, unattractive, feable "old people", you told him he as a fraction of the man you married. Boom! He was right all along! He's losing his manhood. Such a fragile ego, tied up in that "manliness" that seems to fade as the aches, pains, and weakness starts to set in. No wonder so many start hitting the gym double time in an attempt to fend off the aging. As my MLCer X has consistently said, "getting old [censored]". I wonder...is there a way to validate the few times he speaks positively about himself or of aging? Discuss the value of older adults, a way of viewing the positives in living a long and productive life? Maybe even speak positively about others who look beautiful at any age? Look at Helen Mirren (sp).

Aging and self worth. Feeling that life has passed you by, or is in the process of it. Feeling stuck, but afraid to change, or (in the case of the ones who just up and leave...Surprise!) feeling they have to change or die. Its all desperation. Although they have to fight their own battles, our validating and steadyness of caring seems to be the only real path we can take. As long as he's still there, as much as it drives you crazy, you still have a better chance of him working through this than some of us. But man, you are one amazing lady to be able to carry yourself through, and with a great sense of humor to boot.

[HaWho]

Ciluzen - great post, thanks.

No, in hindsight I am realizing my h never saw the positives in aging. He only saw negatives: he felt sorry for older people, for their loss of youth and loss of vitality, even when he met older people who were secure and happy in their age.

Now, when it comes to my kids, I feel like I am waging a huge marketing campaign. H so frequently is dismissive of what older people, and even aging itself, can offer. Whenever he gripes that all is lost after age 25, (forehead slap), I counter with something very positive. I try to show them that aging can be empowering. (Don't worry I don't try to lift cars or anything just to prove that point. I do, however, try to show it in more graceful ways.)

Not only is h still ignoring me, he went all way back to spewing and running (again). Yesterday s had 2 games with a gap between. H was out the door early: run, run, run! He sent me a text and all it said was "separate cars." Then he laid out that he'd drive son there and I would drive him home after the second game. (I knew that meant he was going to go back to that running around at night routine. And sure enough he stayed out last night.) Surprisingly, his avoidance patterns do in fact follow a chartable course. Ohmand he's back to not eating what I cook. He does however eat it later when no one is around. Hilarious!!!

I texted back: "mmm, okay, we can go back to all that, or we could discuss this face to face." (Remember back in the spring he got mad that I complained when he was racing cars on the highway so he told me to drive, myself, 20 miles to and from the exact location. We often pulled in at the exact same time and I would park right next to him. So stupid.)

Well, did he spew. He texted me if it weren't for these kids he'd take everything and leave me in a heap. He said how dare I call him a fraction of himself. And then he told me I am dead to him. He said there is no friendship or goodwill between us anymore. He rounded out the message by saying that I should thank these kids every day, multiple times a day.

Just awful. And of course so brave via text. I wish I could block his texts and accept calls only. He is so stuck on hiding behind his phone. I don't know how to get him to come to me face to face.

I texted back and said that I did not say he was a fraction of himself because he is aging. But, that something is wrong with him. I told him he's so angry and he even wanted son to go to school in pain. And that he wanted to do things like his mother had done. And I asked why we would ever do as she had done? I told him he is not himself and I was worried about him. (This is the last time I will plant such a seed. I know it won't change a thing but maybe he'll remember it next year.)

Here's something super weird. I came home a few minutes after sending the text and h was in the kitchen. Me: hello. Him: silence. (That's not the weird part, this next bit is. Well, actually in "normal" circumstances it's weird but par for the course over here.)

He went to his room to check his phone. I heard him do it. Then he came in and s13 said he was doing x thing (very normal thing) and h said (with no sarcasm, but like he meant it) "I am worried about you." The exact words I just texted to him!


I see him struggling desperately for control: silent treatment, drive separately, I would leave you in a heap if not for these kids and him telling s he's worried about HIM.

I had myself a good cry yesterday. Just so sad. It hurts to be ignored for a whole week. Plus that text he sent was a painful one; the idea that my existence hinges on the kids.

I do think a lot of this coincides with the new job.

[HaWho]

And wow, just received an apology, via text of course.

He says my horrible comment about him being a fraction of himself made him angry. He says he shouldn't have written so harshly to me though and that exclusive of the kids' feelings he still has goodwill towards me. He wants me to have a happy life. Then (here comes the control) he says this is the extent he is going to communicate on this. Nothing further.

It's like Mission Impossible: this is the message and it will self destruct in 5 seconds.

I guess I just validate and praise him for communicating even if it is via text.

[Wonka]

HW,

I have been keeping an eye on your sitch and following along from afar.

Yes, your H is in one heap of a mess! The problem is, as I see it, is that your allowing H to get under your skin and you react. I know, I know living with him and his ongoing childish antics is no picnic at all. My heart melts for you as you confront them every single day. It has to be mentally and emotionally exhausted.

I would suggest that you make the following changes:

-No more responding to or initiating any texts when you BOTH are in the house. It will force H to stop his silly PA behaviors from his dorm room
-Each time he whines about getting old, look at him and say I am sorry to hear that you're still struggling with this and hope you will find some peace with this some day soon. I love it and embrace it wholeheartedly. The way I see it, I means I'm collecting wonderful moments and memories that make me who I am today. And I cannot wait for some more exciting revealations. It is my hope that you'll be able to work through whatever it is that's blocking you from enjoying life to the fullest."
-Step in your own true power and speak up for yourself if H speaks to you in a disrespectful way. "H, I feel you are speaking to me in disrespectful fashion and I won't tolerate it from you. This stops right now. I am willing to listen to you when you are calm and show me respect. Thanks for listening"
-I think it's time for you to really send hard truth darts when H whines about parenting or complains about sons. Yeah, H most probably will send you angry texts from his dorm room. Do NOT respond to them at all. Silence is golden

Stop texting or responding to texts while you both are in the house. If you need to say something to H, you'll have to schelp down to his frat dorm room. You'll train him to talk with you when you ignore his texts. He will learn that if he wants or needs something, he'll have to *gasp* talk with you in person.

Hugs to you sweetie! ((((HaWho)))

[Gordie]

HaWho,

Job suggested I read your thread and I have and just want to express my gratitude for all that you have endured and shared. I am inspired by your story and hope that I can be as strong as you have been.

1. I never realied how my W's rebellion against me is driven by unresolved issues with her father.

2. I too was asked for cake eating at bomb drop six months ago and my W insists that she will eventually have her new man and me and the family and we will all be friends.

3. We are still under the same roof but looks like this phase may be ending soon for better or worse.

4. My W also cycles through periods of being normal and icy cold with unpredictable changes.

5. We also have children at home and do family activities which I think changes the dynamic va those without.

[job]

HaWho,

I'm glad Wonka stopped by. She even agrees w/me about the texting while under the same roof. You have to be the one to cease responding to his texts/emails while under the same roof. No more waffling w/this. Just ignore them. If he's got something important to tell you, he'll have no choice but to come upstairs and tell you in person. You are enabling him in his PA behaviors.

I like all of the things that Wonka addressed. They are solid and civil. It's time for your Peter Pan to grow up some and stop remaining stuck in his dorm room.

[Kyh]

I had myself a good cry yesterday. Just so sad. It hurts to be ignored for a whole week. Plus that text he sent was a painful one; the idea that my existence hinges on the kids.

Hi HaWho,

Catching up on your thread tonight. I just wanted to stop by and let you know you're not the only one who has heard that and I know how it feels. Try not to give it too much thought. It must be out of the MLC playbook because I heard almost the exact same thing. Maybe our spouses are trading notes:)

I too told W something similar last year. I told her she was a splinter of the woman I knew then pointed out her friend's Hs who did what she was doing and how she thought they were scum but was somehow she was above everyone else because it was okay for her to do it and she monstered on me big time. No looking inward at themselves, lol.

Congratulations on the new job!

[HaWho]

Wonka, Gordie, Job and Kyh - thanks. And Gordie, trust me, I am not always strong.

Ok. So, Wonka, I read your post several times. Thank you for all the advice. It's so solid. I like the verbiage you offer when h starts to complain about aging. I am going to lift that!! I will print the whole post and re-read.

I know I need to fix the texting situation. Job, I know you have told me this several times, too. I see I am enabling the PA behaviors. I recognize that when he spews I need to ignore it.

Where I am at a loss is in those gray areas. Like when he texts (from outside the home--probably from the driveway!) that we are taking separate cars to the same place (because he is mad but too PA to say so). Do I just go along with the plan without texting anything back or do I go try to address it in person? If I address it, I am chasing him down.

I don't text him. I DO go and talk to him. But, anytime he is unconfortable he hides behind his phone. He waits until he is out of the home. I think he's caught in that I was coming down to answer/address him.

I am going to start asking for advice when the texting starts because clearly I am not breaking this pattern.

Thanks guys. I am sure it is frustrating to see me making the same mistake over and over again.

[job]

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't respond to any of his texts if he's in the home or in the driveway/yard. Now, if he's out in a store or somewhere, then that's okay If you are going somewhere, I would get myself ready to go, be sure you have your keys in your pocket, and walk outside and get in the car. By doing this, he will have to say something to you about taking two cars. If he does, then say something like "h, we can take two cars, but w/the cost of gas and car maintenance these days, it's better to go in one. Do you still want to take two cars?" BTW, I remember when my xh use to pull the PA behaviors on me and what I did to break some of those behaviors. It's not easy, but you can do it w/repeated practice, patience and time.

Texting is his way of controlling his situation w/you. He can't stand conflict, therefore hiding behind the phone is very easy for him to do and in a way his way of punishing you for whatever he's angry about. The more you allow this behavior, the more he'll do it. He's caught on to what you've been doing in the home of coming to speak to him. The more you practice speaking to him in person, the better it will be. Hopefully, he will eventually realize that you aren't a threat and will not go off on him, i.e., like one of his parents did when he was a child. This is a grown man and needs to act like one and the only way he's going to become unstuck is for you to try something different and stick w/it. Once you've decided no more responding to his texts on the property, do not waffle and start back up again. You have to be the one to break this cycle. He has to come out of that dorm room and start interacting w/his family again. He's been "stuck" for quite some time.

HaWho, sometimes we can see things better about a situation because we are looking in from the outside. I have faith in you that you can do this.

[Ginger1]

The way he "spoke" to you was awful. It's actually pretty disgusting. Whether or not he is reenacting something from childhood, there is no reasonable excuse.I am so sorry you had to endure that.

I can only echo what others have said. Do not play the text game. Keyboard brave he is, otherwise a chicken sh!t. If he texting from outside of the home and it pertains to what you need at the grocery store or what time ot pick up the kids, yes, answer. If he wants to text spew from another location, you can kindly text back that you can have that conversation when he gets home. And if he is brave enough to say to your face what he does on text (which I doubt) you can tell him you will not be disrespected and walk away.

Your first instinct was to validate his half-arsed text apology. Maybe I am stubborn, or took too many years of verbal abuse from my ex, I don't know, but I would have said "I did not appreciate the way you texted me and I will not tolerate it anymore"

It is easier for us to see like Job said. I also have faith you can break this cycle too.