Gordie: Pulling it all together 2

[Gordie]

I know I'm not supposed to initiate R talks but what do you do when your S is obviously angry about something and doesn't say anything (my W stuffs her feelings). Do you ignore it or ask what is bothering you?

[ForGump]

Is that a typo? Your S is angry, or your W is angry? Not sure what is DB way but I'd probably talk to her about it and validate her feelings, but avoid giving solutions or discussing the overall marriage.

Your W being upset after your encounter w/ OM makes sense to me. She's intoxicated on this fantasy of setting up a parallel life w/ the OM, and seeing you and OM having a friendly, comfortable exchange disturbs and intrudes upon her fantastical view of the world.

I think it's good that she's upset over it. It's good for her to realize that something is wrong w/ the picture as she sees it.

[Rose888]

Aren't you trying to build emotional connection with your wife?

I mig say, "It looks like something is bothering you. Do you want to talk about it?
""

If she does, follow FG's advice.

If she doesn't, let it drop without implying in any way (words, tone of voice, facial expression) that you think she should discuss it with you.

[Gordie]

ForGump and Rose,

Thank you for the advice. I think I hesitated in bringing it up because it's what I usually do and it probably relates to POM. W gives me the silent treatment and I have to break the ice and get her to talk. I'm not a mind reader but I think what was bothering her was the three way interaction with POM and it always turns out badly when we discuss him. As FG indicated, maybe our interaction was reality again intruding on her fantasy.

So what did I do instead? I tried something the DB coach suggested for me. I made her laugh which I never do. I told her about all the funny things that happened to me during my day. It definitely broke the ice and she let me give her a peck on the cheek when I left this morning which was a huge improvement over her actively avoiding my presence yesterday. Did I feel like we were sweeping something under the rug? Yes. Did I feel I created an emotional connection? Yes. Was it the right thing to do? I don't know.

Maybe I'll ask her about it later today or tonight using Rose's language if it feels right.

***

One of many things bothering me about my situation is my W sometimes admits we have a good M. But she wants a great and very different M. Our M is safe and boring and predictable and there are things she wants to do and be and explore that she can't if she is M.

Another relatedness issue I struggle with: W hints that all romantic R have a dominant and a submissive (and I'm not talking about sex). She no longer wants to be the submissive and doesn't think I can be the submissive so she needs a new romantic partner. What do you make of this R paradigm and how can I address this issue?

[Rose888]

I wouldn't bring it up with her. I think you handled it brilliantly and broke the ice. I'd leave it alone.

I don't buy into your wife's R paradigm. No real suggestions on that, since she has rejected marriage counseling, which is my first suggestion. Hopefully someone else has an idea.

[CaliGuy]

One of many things bothering me about my situation is my W sometimes admits we have a good M. But she wants a great and very different M. Our M is safe and boring and predictable and there are things she wants to do and be and explore that she can't if she is M.

This is problematic with the MLCrs .... they have a fantasy all mapped out in their heads of how euphoric M should be. This is by definition Disillusionment and its one of the stages of a marriage when one realizes that their spouse may not have lived up to all those things one fantasized since they were little. Truth is ... NO ONE will live up to these things so either they accept this as truth, or they struggle with the lie they told themselves, and in a MLCr this fuels the "Why I can not be with you" campign they desperately try to convince themselves.

You can not fix this, she must arrive at the place where she realizes she actually has it pretty good and you are in fact her # 1 choice. Stay the course but just know where this is coming from so it keeps you from spinning.

Another relatedness issue I struggle with: W hints that all romantic R have a dominant and a submissive (and I'm not talking about sex). She no longer wants to be the submissive and doesn't think I can be the submissive so she needs a new romantic partner. What do you make of this R paradigm and how can I address this issue?

Again ... she has found this new inner person whom she is starting to listen to. Again more fuel on what she thinks she wants. Truth be told, I have not found many women who desire a submissive male .... not that they want a dominant A hold 24 7. Normally when BD hits a good number of guys turn submissive, pursue, beg and plead which makes them appear weak only making the MLCr/WAW run faster ... its not till he GAL, PMA, and 180's his way through that the WAW takes notice and starts to question her choice.

I would not address this nor change it ... IMHO she may openly complain about it to you but I would bet dollars to donuts its something she finds attractive in your personality.

[Cristy]

So what did I do instead? I tried something the DB coach suggested for me. I made her laugh which I never do. I told her about all the funny things that happened to me during my day. It definitely broke the ice and she let me give her a peck on the cheek when I left this morning which was a huge improvement over her actively avoiding my presence yesterday. Did I feel like we were sweeping something under the rug? Yes. Did I feel I created an emotional connection? Yes. Was it the right thing to do? I don't know.

Maybe I'll ask her about it later today or tonight using Rose's language if it feels right.

***

One of many things bothering me about my situation is my W sometimes admits we have a good M. But she wants a great and very different M. Our M is safe and boring and predictable and there are things she wants to do and be and explore that she can't if she is M.

Another relatedness issue I struggle with: W hints that all romantic R have a dominant and a submissive (and I'm not talking about sex). She no longer wants to be the submissive and doesn't think I can be the submissive so she needs a new romantic partner. What do you make of this R paradigm and how can I address this issue?

Hello Gordie,

Great job on doing something unexpected and making your wife laugh! Glad you felt an emotional connection. You asked if it was the right thing to do and that is a really good question to ask your DB Coach.

I agree with Rose regarding not asking your W about it tonight.

Please give me a call at 303-444-7004 when you want to schedule another session.

Cristy
Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[Gordie]

Well, this is a new/bad development. I thought I created some connection last night but tonight, W was back to not wanting to get too physically close to me. She was willing to talk to me, but didn't look me in the eye and had a hardened look on her face all night. Breathe deeply. Give her space. Take care of the kids. Take care of myself. Pray for our family. Avoid the temptation to mind read.

[Gordie]

***This is problematic with the MLCrs .... they have a fantasy all mapped out in their heads of how euphoric M should be. This is by definition Disillusionment and its one of the stages of a marriage when one realizes that their spouse may not have lived up to all those things one fantasized since they were little. Truth is ... NO ONE will live up to these things so either they accept this as truth, or they struggle with the lie they told themselves, and in a MLCr this fuels the "Why I can not be with you" campign they desperately try to convince themselves. You can not fix this, she must arrive at the place where she realizes she actually has it pretty good and you are in fact her # 1 choice. Stay the course but just know where this is coming from so it keeps you from spinning.***

This is great advice. Yes, I definitely feel like I am spinning. Yes, she keeps telling herself and me reasons why we have to D for her to be free. How can I show her I'm her #1 choice? Or I can't and just let her go through her MLC process, however long that takes?

***Again ... she has found this new inner person whom she is starting to listen to. Again more fuel on what she thinks she wants. Truth be told, I have not found many women who desire a submissive male .... not that they want a dominant A hold 24 7. Normally when BD hits a good number of guys turn submissive, pursue, beg and plead which makes them appear weak only making the MLCr/WAW run faster ... its not till he GAL, PMA, and 180's his way through that the WAW takes notice and starts to question her choice. I would not address this nor change it ... IMHO she may openly complain about it to you but I would bet dollars to donuts its something she finds attractive in your personality.***

Thanks. This too gets me spinning. And it's not just her inner person, it's her new friends who have these younger, submissive and disposable boyfriends.. There is no use in disagreeing or arguing about it, so I guess I just validate and drink the STFU smoothies, right?

[Gordie]

Yes, she's definitely pulling away--as fast as she can to get away from me. But you know what's different? I am. I'm not chasing her. I'm letting her go. It still hurts. I'm still sad. I'm still angry. She needs to chase her fantasy...without me.

No talk of divorce in the past week, but I gave her everything she needs to file several weeks ago so it could be at any time, when she is ready. We still haven't told the kids. I still have made no plans to move out as I said I wouldn't until it was official. Heck, we're still in the same bed, but it's been very cold in there. She has flip flopped a lot, but ever since the incident with the POM, she has hardened her heart.

Yes, we still speak to each other, but she keeps her emotional and physical distance. She seems like she's got a lot on her mind and a heavy heart. She gave me a positive comment on one of my GAL activities. That was unexpected.

I've been letting her take the lead on physical touch, so if she doesn't want a touch or a kiss hello or a kiss goodbye, it's not happening. It feels awkward but I definiteiy don't want to kiss someone who doesn't want to be kissed. Truthfully, I miss being physical and being physically desired, but I guess this is all part of the process.

I do still pray that my M gets saved before D, but if not before D, then after D. And I pray for my children, my poor children. They shouldn't have to go through this. And I pray for my W, that she would be healed from her wounds, that she find what she is looking for, and that she can be happy. And I pray for me, that I learn and grow and change in the way that God desires and that I can be happy too, with or wolithout my W.