PS- I also think there is another advantage of accepting and being appreciative of a life without belief that a fulfilling relationship is in our future. Not only will we be better off should it not come, I think it makes it MORE likely we will be able to appreciate what we have should we actually form another relationship.
How many of us were miserable in our last marriages? All of us, right? Well? That's again because we had expectations of a relationship that was somehow better than the one we were in, and we just couldn't be happy with what we had, right? We were angry and depressed because how could we not be if our spouse didn't do this, or that?
Sometimes I think that accepting an unfulfilling marriage is a requirement for a good one. The same as I think accepting the possibility of no future marriage the best road for today. It all comes from the same place, which is the serenity to accept what we can't change.
J, thanks for listening. I have a lot of thoughts brewing in my head. It's been hard for me to sort through them all. These are just a few of them. I appreciate you letting me spill them out here and there.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Ok, say he was ordered by the court to pay you a one lump sum as his punishment. Or if by law he was forced to come home. O Or he was imprisoned for 3 years?
Would this make anything better? Would you let go of the anger then?
What is it that the law should assure the child would have with two parents?
OK, if we had 2 incomes, we would probably own a house. How does the law assure I have a house? And my ex has a house because se lives there too? My parents were married until I was 17, but we only rented a small 2 bedroom apartment.
I know you are as angry as can be. I also think you have a right to be. But it is taking you over. To the point you need to have him punished SOMEHOW. But I don't know that would even make you feel better until you decide to feel feel better.
And FWIW, there will be consequences. They may not be the way you expect them to be, but he will have them. He has to live with hiself.
No your right. My ex is not doing anything illegal. He is doing the basics. And none of those punishments would make me feel better....except for a giant lump sum. My friend asked me what it would take for me to not be angry anymore. I told her, if I was living comfortably on my own then I would be happy and let things go. That is not a very spiritual response and might not even be true. Or perhaps it would only be true because I would appreciate it having not had that. Perhaps if I had always had that lifestyle, I would still be unhappy because I felt lacking. Like I would need to be in a homeless shelter to appreciate the situation I am in. But i think the issue is that I am really unhappy with my life right now and i do not see a realistic way out financially.
Now I know there are plenty of people that have it worse. Me and my son are in no danger of starving or being without healthcare or shelter. Logically, I know it really is a matter of appreciating what I do have and trying to just work with the cards I have been dealt.
J, I understand your disappointment with our society which is supportive of abandoning marriages and family when personal happiness is inconvenienced. I also recall your fear that other men would abandon you in any future marriage when things get tough, and that you are upset that the world works this way because it interferes with you getting what you want and need in your life. I can see why you'd be angry at your H, both for the hurt he caused directly, and because he represents everything you feel is wrong with the world and embodies the universal attitudes that prevent your shot at achieving a fulfilling relationship in the future.
I was angry for the exact same reasons for some time. What helped me was understanding why I was really angry. And that is that I saw in XW the attitudes and outlooks that I feel are wrong with the world, those that threaten to destroy the very ideas of marriage and family. Because I have a different view than most others on this side. While others speak optimistically about their next marriage, now that I've watched the game played out so many times with my eyes wide open I'm unable to deny what I see. And that is that while at the micro level there are exceptions, at the macro level relationships just don't work the way I wished they did in this world. Now that the hardship and oppression that kept bad marriages together in the past has eased and people have the resources to follow the path of least resistance, humanity overall is simply too selfish to make marriage work. And this means there is a good chance I'll never have the committed deep love I longed for in this lifetime.
This is very hard. It is a big loss. It is grieving not only my marriage and my family and the future I thought I had, but it's grieving my belief that this will happen for me altogether. And I can't medicate and try to ease my pain by assuring myself I'll get this all someday, because I know maybe I won't. So more loss to grieve and less happy thoughts to battle those dark feelings.
But the good of this is that by letting go of hope for the future, I've been forced to grieve and accept these losses. I am not clinging to the hope of a relationship and then having every ensuing reminder of humanity's shortsightedness trigger me into PTSD, open old wounds, or pour fuel on a raging internal fire of wondering if a happy romantic relationship is in my future. Instead I've been forced to ask the question- knowing that things don't work the way I want them to, do I want to enjoy what life does have to offer, or destroy myself to spite God with my disapproval of how he allowed the world to work? And I've made the decision that I'd be ungrateful not to celebrate what I do have. In fact, for me to reject what has been given to me out of anger would be just as destructive and short sighted as those that walk out on families.
People just are how they are. I'll get what I get. And I can be ok with that.
And that doesn't mean for sure that I can't be surprised by what's in store for me in the future. Maybe someday I open up to a woman, and it does indeed turn out that I'm in the minority of second marriages that doesn't end in divorce, infidelity, abuse, or perpetual hostility and resentment. Great. I'll take it. But I'm not going to hinge my appreciation of my life today on getting a guarantee about that.
In fact, I feel like this is almost identical to detaching from your WAS in DBing 101. It would be great if your spouse turned back before it was too late and you lived happily ever after, but clinging to hope and remaining attached to that outcome doesn't help. It just keeps the wound from healing over, and that pain causes anger and resentment that make it difficult to be your best self that would make that person or any other want to be around you anyway.
So while my outlook may not appear to be a positive one, for me this has been a catalyst to release my anger. And I may not be as opposite as I seem. Because I'm not saying marriages can't ever work. What I'm really trying to say is that they often don't, and they might not for me, and I'd rather deal with that possibility and choose to be ok regardless than to condition my ability to appreciate what's in my life to an unlikely outcome I can't control.
Cliff notes- you're right, your WAH is selfish and won't remain in a marriage, so is most of humanity. Bingo. Well diagnosed. Now what do you think you should do with your time between now and when you die?
Sorry if this is discouraging to anyone. I'm in a truly peaceful place right now and wanted to share the road that I found through this mess. Wishing you all support for the struggles of today and hoping you all have a moment today that wasn't all terrible.
I like what you wrote. And for almost 2 years I have read and followed your coming to terms with this insight...That you have to accept the loss of not just what you had, but on what you want. (I remember you talked about that with playing pool. That you come to terms with not making the shot before you actually shoot, right? and how you have better success that way)
When you word it as being "upset that the world works this way because it interferes with you getting what you want and need in your life" I had to laugh. Because although it points out my own feelings of entititlement ?? (I think thats the right word) There is truth to that. And yes. I am mad that what I feel is wrong is acceptable to many.
But its an important concept to grasp for any future relationship because it goes hand in hand with letting go of expectations. Of course I wont be able to count on that from a future problem, and like you am very fearful of being with someone that resents me.
Theres more to your post. I know. and will get to it. But want to answer this...
So what am I going to do with my time? I dont really have great goals yet except
1. Set up team, services, testing for my son. (he is super high functioning and i was actually told by his social worker that he could very easily be one of the kids to fall off the spectrum with the right help because he is so socially engaged and aware)
2. Get through the divorce
3. I have to make decisions here...Advance my career? seek out a relationship? I dont know. and that would help
I think that your mind is playing tricks on you and you are going round in circle. I had an interesting training today regarding mental health issue and how to manage stress. It all come down to your thoughts. What was said is that you have situation that triggers your thoughts which in return triggers your physical and your emotional symptoms and all this has a consequence your behaviour. The talk was that if we can turn our negative thoughts into positive the outcome is a lot better.
If you could challenge your negative thoughts you have won half of the battle.I was crippled with negativity (still am when I have to be in touch with ex, so i'll work on it), but I'm getting better at it and I can tell you that now I see life on a brighter side. If I can do it, so do you.
Tell me one good thing that happened today. It is with small step that we will overcome this.
PS- I also think there is another advantage of accepting and being appreciative of a life without belief that a fulfilling relationship is in our future. Not only will we be better off should it not come, I think it makes it MORE likely we will be able to appreciate what we have should we actually form another relationship.
How many of us were miserable in our last marriages? All of us, right? Well? That's again because we had expectations of a relationship that was somehow better than the one we were in, and we just couldn't be happy with what we had, right? We were angry and depressed because how could we not be if our spouse didn't do this, or that?
Sometimes I think that accepting an unfulfilling marriage is a requirement for a good one. The same as I think accepting the possibility of no future marriage the best road for today. It all comes from the same place, which is the serenity to accept what we can't change.
J, thanks for listening. I have a lot of thoughts brewing in my head. It's been hard for me to sort through them all. These are just a few of them. I appreciate you letting me spill them out here and there.
I hear what you are saying Zues. And I am not trying to persuade you from being a bachelor.
I am really just thinking of my own situation. I hate to admit this out loud. But there are practical reasons for a relationship. Historically, and presently. I wish that was not the case but it is.
It is hard to thrive, retire, get through life (with kids anyway) without 2 people mutually working together as a team. Yes it can be done. But the benefits of having a mom and dad are obvious. Now, obviously this cannot be the only reason for a relationship with someone. Im not saying that. Thats not very healthy. But to survive in the current world a relationship/marriage is beneficial and thus a goal. No?
So funny how it's all the same thing. I'm seeing it everywhere now. Before I respond, let me tell you about the conversation I just had with my pool playing friend.
He has been having a problem with choking for a while. He plays great, but when he has an opportunity to win big he melts down. Not every time, he's a heck of a player. But let's just say more than a player his caliber usually does. And it's happened enough to be a real issue. And it has cost us some cash
Well, we've talked sports psychology and spiritual outlook and approach and balance and all kinds of happy crap for 10 years now. But it's not easy. Today he was playing a guy and it went down to the wire, he fumbled, and he is depressed.
Today I told him how when I was younger I played because I told myself that some day in the future I would be the best in the world, and I was convinced this would solve all of my problems. All I needed to do was conquer the world of pool, and it would be allllllll right. Playing was torture. Living was torture. But I medicated by stuffing my feelings, turning that pain into anger, and taking it out on myself and pushing, pushing, pushing to be better. I kept saying to myself that I'd show the world some day...
Well, in looking back I realize how that worked for me. I was able to find meaning in my pain because it was for a future payoff, and I was able to manage my pain by assuring myself it would be better someday.
Finally the time came where I achieved a bit of success. And guess what? Nothing changed. It didn't change how I felt one little bit. This is a disillusionment that many people experience. They say it's hard to stay at the top and talk about burnout. To me it's more a matter of the realization that winning doesn't stop the suffering in life, and once that coping mechanism is shattered it's a big lose of motivation.
In addition, when I was trying to get better I would be really upset when I played poorly. I only really enjoyed myself when I was setting personal records, having break through wins, etc.
Finally I asked myself: If I'm only going to be happy the top 2% of the time I play, is it worth going through the misery of the other 98%? Is the 2% really that orgasmic? Or is it worth it because someday I think I'll achieve some payoff worth all of this suffering?
I already knew there was no future payoff. And no, the 2% wasn't worth the other 98%. So I had a clear choice. Either quit playing, or enjoy the other 98% as well.
So here I am today. I enjoy myself almost all the time that I play, because I no longer condition my enjoyment on my performance. The controller/ego part of me wants to challenge that saying 'you won't try hard if you aren't fighting for your life', but I don't listen to that voice. I've learned that choking comes when you are playing for your personal happiness. If the stakes are heaven and hell, that's pressure that can cause anyone to melt down. And it is fatiguing to deal with. It wears you down. But, if as I say "When you play to have fun, you win as soon as you put your cue together", well, then there's no pressure. You're going to have fun either way, win or lose, champion or choker. I know it will all happen if I play, I will choke for sure, I will also win tournaments and set new records, it's all part of the road ahead, it will all happen if I keep playing. So just chillax, hit balls, have fun, and see what's in store for today.
And no, I'm not too unmotivated when I play. Believe me, once someone starts trying to beat me I still respond to the challenge and my inner fighter comes out. I may have fun either way, but I have fun fighting like a lion to beat their brains out so bad for the rest of their lives they have PTSD every time they see a pool table.
How does this relate? Well, one common thread is the frustration that comes if our happiness being conditional on something outside of our control. But more to the point, the idea of avoiding the acceptance of our pain today by promising ourselves something will be better in the future.
I told my friend I don't believe that. We humans really have a problem with acceptance. We keep wanting to believe that if only this, or that, then we'll be better. And none of it is true. Wherever we go, there we are. It's like some king that believes riches, fame, and land will solve all of his problems. He says "I don't want to die, I want to live forever". And his page says "no, sire, we all die". So the king says "Unacceptable. I want to live forever. I know, I'll conquer that country over there, and make a fortune on new trade routes. THAT will solve my problems!" Um, no bro, that won't solve anything. Yes, you'll have more money, more land. That might be convenient. But you're still going to die.
Now, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't strive to manifest our gifts in this world. As I said before, we know life hurts and we all die someday, but we get to decide what we do with our time here. This is where personal beliefs come in. I tend to belief it is a better choice to strive to do my best to use the gifts I've been given in a celebration of the life I have than to bitterly count down days until it's over. But I do the dance because I enjoy dancing, not because I believe the dance will take away my problems.
Sooooooooo..........back to your post. Date someone? Remarry? All fine options. My only thought would be don't do any of those things because you think it will make you feel better. You know, the old "If I had someone then it would be easier, I wouldn't be lonely, I would have someone to understand me, to just comfort me sometimes". Yeah, right. That's not how it works. We've all been married. We all felt misunderstood, lonely, trapped, unappreciated, abused, all of those things. So this picture in our head of what a relationship will bring isn't true.
That's where the expectations come in, the self medicating self deception of thinking it will get better. Ultimately you're expecting your partner to stop you from suffering, and resent them when they don't. This is not only a trigger for me because it's a mistake that's caused me so much pain, it's also a trigger because I believe this outlook is what is responsible for the failure of marriage today. People think someone else should make them happy, then think they have a defective partner so they cut bait. In the end they suffer twice, once because they haven't accepted the suffering we're all sentenced to, and again because of the consequences of destroying a family.
Because of this for me personally I'm trying really hard to be realistic and deal with my suffering head on. I will admit the dream of marriage sounds good, the kind that ends our loneliness and suffering. But the reality doesn't. A relationship where I will feel let down, misunderstood, diminished, villainized, and abandoned, no thanks. As for making it easier to get through life, the dream marriage where we partner up together and save for retirement and get the kids through school and share special moments sounds great. But having to navigate through years of court and social services and then pay for another household so my next ex can have a rendezvous place for her new lovers that she can bad mouth me to, no thanks.
This is where everything is relative. Some might think I'm jaded. But I don't feel raging angry about this, scowling at the rest of the world because 'if only they weren't how they were then I'd be happy because I'd have what I need'...no, I feel pretty detached about all of this. I just am seeing things very clearly. I see how it works. I see that if I partner up with someone this is a very high probability outcome, and this doesn't look attractive to me.
On the flip side J, we're all going to suffer either way. You can suffer alone, or you can suffer in a disappointing marriage that probably won't last. So from that stance it's personal preference. I'm not going to pretend that if I stay single for ever I won't suffer. It's just a pick your poison type of thing.
In the end, go out and live your life, advance your career, maneuver into a space of your own, relieve your finances, and maybe share some company with someone. All good stuff. Just don't expect it to change anything. And, since you know it won't, start enjoying your life right now.
I just thought of something I'll close with. What if God told you that the way you feel today, the joy you experience in your life today, the mood you were in today...it was going to be frozen, and that would be how you felt the rest of your life.
How would you decide to feel?
Well, this is pretty much how it works. We decide how we feel. We decide to be appreciative and joyful or disappointed and resentful. And, because nothing that happens in our life really changes anything, the habits we develop of how we choose to feel actually do become how we feel the rest of our life.
The nightmare of divorce was a loss that cut me so deeply I will never be the same person again. It broke me. But it broke me in a good way, and forced me to figure some of this out. $hit has never been tougher in my life right now, but I don't think I've ever been better. Lot of words, but only because lord how I wish I could share how I feel with all of you.
Just like I wish I could share with my best friend how it can feel to play pool out of joy, without fear of fighting for your eternal happiness, and letting your stroke out, and being unencumbered and winning against world champions and popping off big tournaments and being selected to play exhibition matches against hall of famers passing through town, because that's how I've been feeling, and that's what's been happening. Life beats the living tar out of me all day every day, and I bounce through it smiling, play with my kids, laugh during dinner, and make magic with my cuestick on my weekends without them.
Thanks for the reply J.
THIS SENTENCE ONLY EXISTS TO BREAK THE RECORD AND MAKE THIS MY LONGEST POST EVER. I TOLD YOU I WAS COMPETITIVE 10 CHARACTERS TO GO...AND I WIN!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
If you believe that life has to be suffered then life will keep showing up in a way that allows you to suffer. Your beliefs are as a live as you are, and your choices and perspective are shaped by them. Also you will make choices and live in fear that every action you take and every desicion you make will lead to more and more suffering. An thus you will experience a your life as hard, difficult challenging and a struggle.
Don't get me wrong a certain level of stress and discomfort is necessary in life, it moves us forward toward new achievements and to our best authetenic self. But my feeling about your words and actions JujuB, is you live a life essentially based on belief that your always one step away from a great disaster or catastoph and the other is that I have to do everything on my own'.
We have talked alot about your beliefs about what type of man would want to take you on with your special needs son. Now you are sharing your beliefs about only being able to financially thrive if you are in partnership.
So for now JujuB, if you believe it will be so, it will be so.
As Henry Ford said "Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, your right"
I consider you a friend JujuB and hope there comes a time when you can let go of the fear of what if! and embrace the excitement of what if?.
Sorry JujuB, I was writing that at work and I had already lost one post to you, so I have to start another and was hurrying. The first one was better!!I hope you can make some sense of this one. JellyBxxx
Yes. I am my own worst enemy... I think it's having been (literally) raised with the belief that you should always "expect the worst and you will never be dissapointed". And yes this belief seems to only help me to serve self profiling prophesies.
That guy i was dating... He adored me. He would talk about helping my son and the future with me. And you know what I did? I had this whole conversation with him on the negatives of being with me. I told him how hard it would be starting a life with me and my son...how I might not be able to give him children, how difficult children were, how I never wanted to be left to raise a child alone again. etc. etc. I did not want to sell him something he would have resented later on.
Another version could have been, hey a guy gains the chance to love and earn the love of a really great kid. I still have a few years to have children, and I am a really really loyal person. That would have been honest too. I never said these words though. I am not a good advocate for myself. I expect them to see the bad just as I do.
His response was that those thoughts did come to his mind at times, and he loved how realistic I was. But I wonder if because I saw things so pessimistically, he had no choice but to as well. We are now breaking things off, he is moving cross country but I can't help but wonder why I sold myself so short. why did I try to convince him? Why do I continually devalue myself?
My best friend wants to set me up with someone and my response is "yeah but look at my situation. He's probably going to want to run. I should only consider guys that share similar situations to me" Her response was to "stop and let them decide"
I would never ever describe me as the type of person that has an indulgent or addictive personality. But I think The negative thinking is my addiction. just like eating, or drinking, or smoking is for others. And it really played a role in my marital demise and continues to play a role for me. No matter what, I am never satisfied with myself and with those close to me. And I don't know how to be.
I understand the message that You and ginger, and zues are saying. But for me not thinking negatively is like holding back on that cigarette. Only harder I imagine, because it's a mental perception that has been ingrained in me forever.
It's like I sit there and try to actually implement change and might be successful For one day, but then I fall right back into it again.
I think maybe I don't want to be hurt or dissapointed. I'm scared to hope that things will be good??? An underachiever? I don't know.
