Thanks for journaling. All the details may seem mundane to some but they were interesting to read. Two hours of shoveling snow!!!
I have to say, though, the you seem pretty intense. You appear to initiate a lot of interactions and conversation with her, even though her demeanor towards you is generally grouchy.
Does your W have trouble falling asleep at night because she can't calm her mind?
Criticizing something (overspending) yet being unwilling to work on it together (budget) ... classic.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
Thanks FG. It helps me to put it all down on paper. Hoping it can help others too at some point. I'm trying not to put my head in the sand with regards to this. My tendency over the years with W has been to avoid the hard conversations. Part of my approach now is that I'll talk about things, regardless of how tough and painful they may be. Try not to go overboard though. W is continually grouchy, though at times she's softer. Few and far between though.
Unsure why W can't sleep. She says it's bc I snore, but I've taken steps to fix that the past few years. I've also recorded my sleep and haven't heard the issue she talks about. She may be exaggerating it. Regardless, she stays downstairs with tv on until 3-4am most nights. I think she gets some sleep down there then heads up to bed to get the rest. Most nights she drinks a couple glasses of wine while down there. That ebbs and flows as her agitated state changes though.
Yeah, her lack of aid around the budgeting is frustrating. Really gives her no ownership which makes it difficult to implement. Has to be done though so I'll do it and see how she reacts.
On a side note, W had been planning to go to a woman's march this month in DC. She told me about it at the end of November. Unsure if it was real or if it was to see OM,but she was very gung ho about it. Was going with friends supposedly and she even asked D if she wanted to go. She's been talking about it on and off all December. Well, this am she tells D and I that she is no longer going. No detail on why she is not. Just something strange as she'd really been amped up about making the trip. Could be associated with her saying last night that her week has been horrible. Who knows.
Eating breakfast with D and W then D and I doing more snow time. Thanks FG!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
FWIW, my intuition on your W going to the march has nothing to do w/ the OM. My W is also going to the march, and many people are passionate about it.
Staying up and dozing w/ TV on til the wee hours ... as well as using substance (wine, in your W's case) to medicate her mind ... they are all familiar to me. I suspect obsessive thoughts are racing in her mind at bedtime when it's quiet around the house, and TV & wine are her way of coping. The root cause is an unquiet mind.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
Yeah, my gut tells me she truly would have been going to the march. But it does highlight a massive trust issue I've got now with her. I find myself wondering if I'd ever be able to trust her about anything again. It speaks volumes that I can't trust she is going where she says she's going for a single day. Much less trust her on anything she says about D9. I'm unwilling to live my life without trust, so somewhat at a loss to see how it's even possible to rebuild that.
We've been snowed in the past few days. I went to work today and stopped by the store on the way home. Asked W if she needed anything and she requested "a few bottles of wine". She's drinking every evening now after D goes to bed. I agree that it seems to be some kind of self medicating. She has also stopped the obsessive exercise and healthy eating that's been her staple the past few months over the past few days. Seems to coincide with her deciding not to go to the march but who knows. Again, getting back to trust issues I guess.
I find myself wondering if I find a new MC if that person can help W see she needs to work on anxiety. I feel like the comments I've shared with her over time about it are not working. Back to the rebellious nature of this thing, whatever I say she chooses to do the opposite. Hell, maybe I'll tell her to be mean and not see an IC. Could be that I get the best, most well balanced W in return. Might be worth a try!
We go away tomorrow to the indoor water park. W, D, and myself this time. Can't wait to have fun with my D. Ws mood will not dictate our enjoyment there. Thanks all!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
Journaling. Went to IC this morning first thing. Been two weeks. Ran him through the recent things I've posted about. He thinks W is trying to push herself further away from me again. He mentioned that at Ws current pace, we would not have any chance of R until well beyond both our lifetimes. Not an optimal situation.
He continues to believe I should put a timeframe on this and relay it to my W. Something along the lines of "you seem to be getting something you need from this, but I can't live this way. I need a partner who I can share my life and be happy with. it's not fair to either of us to have to live this way. Let's give this a year. It gives you a chance to get yourself prepared in case this doesn't work." Still thinking through this one.
One thing I did today was I sent a msg to the L. Been a couple months since I talked to them. Mentioned how W wants to buy a new house and that I'm working on a budget. They want to meet to discuss. Set that up for next week.
So I came home from work at noon so we could leave at 130 for the indoor water park. W was obviously agitated. Did lunch then got ready to go. W asked what car we were taking. I said we probably don't need to take my truck bc the roads are better (snow) so let's take your car. I tell W that I'll drive. W says no, she will drive. I tell her that I'd like to drive and she again says no. The neighborhood road is still icy so I say, well I'll get us out of the neighborhood and then you drive. Realistically, I'm a little miffed that she feels she can instantly tell me no to the driving thing.
Well, she flips out. Makes a huge deal about how she lived up north and drove in snow her entire life. Says how she used to drive to work in the snow all the time. She was highly agitated and highly aggressive. D is there and obviously it's not sitting well with her. I let W rant and then tell D we will leave in 5 minutes, why don't you watch tv so mom and I can talk. W and I go out in the garage.
I look at W and ask her what's up? She says you are the one who told me to come out here, you tell me what's up. I tell her she seems very upset, what's going on? She starts into her rant about she's trying the hardest she can to keep it together. This is as good as it gets. She has been fighting to keep it together every week the past ten years. I should get used to this bc she will be fighting to keep it together the next ten years too. Again, she's very agitated. I tell her that I don't appreciate her speaking to me like she did in the house. I also tell her that if she would like to drive there are ways to go about negotiating that (exact phrase she tells our D, thought it appropriate). She tells me it's unfair for me to ask/expect her to change when I have refused to change al these years. W says she will get it together so my D will have a good time and stomps off. Go back inside and D asks questions about what we were talking about. I tell her we were discussing who would drive. D didn't buy it I don't think.
We get in the car and W tells D to tell me that I should drive the entire way. W does this when she is unwilling to speak to me (a lot recently). We get to the water park and check in. W is being a complete downer and in a bad mood. Start playing in the arcade and W is very mopey. Really weighs on the mood and is cutting in on Ds and my fun. D tends to follow Ws moods. We hit the bowling alley and W gets upset that I'm throwing the bowling ball to hard. Without thinking I shoot back, well this is how D and I bowl. Probably could have been more tactful. We go back to room. W stays and D and I go to get pizza from the restaurant here. Hit up the arcade again and have a blast for 15 minutes. D hits the jackpot on a game and we get 1,000 tickets. Gives her enough to get the giant stuffed snake she wants. Very exciting for both of us! Love that kid!
Bring back the pizza and salads and W is upset they didn't cut the pizza properly and her salad has onions (though I asked for one when ordering) and they don't have Greek salad dressing. Of course that vitriol is aimed and fired at me. I get frustrated and tell her I'll take it back and get both fixed. W always freaks out about take out. Drives me insane. I was tempted to tell her to take it back herself but am still hesitant to show that level of disrespect in front of D. Get it fixed and come back and have dinner.
After dinner we bowl again. W gets some wine. I grab a beer. W is still in a piss poor mood. Head back to the arcade and D and I both hit the jackpot on the same game and now we have a ton of tickets. We get Ds snake and have a happy family moment. Get ice cream, go back to the room, and settle in for bed. We all joke around and laugh a lot. Again a nice family time. Now I'm sitting here typing this as W and D sleep.
IC is right. I'm not willing to be with someone who is just going through the motions. Everything W said today was so purposefully mean and spiteful. One slip up on my part, but I can't do this forever. I will need to think through the ICs thoughts. It hit me a little hard when she said she'll effectively fake it as best she can for the next 10yrs. That's not the way I want to live.
Just wanted to get all thought out here. It's hard when we do trips to be confined to a small space with her. Really have to guard against letting her moods affect mine in these situations.
Doing water park tomorrow. W is going to "be around" us but didn't bring a suit. That means she will be nitpicking everything D and I do from the sidelines. Yay... we will see. Highly frustrating though
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
Oh my God. I would have totally cracked! My jaw is still open reading this. You paint such a clear picture. Now there are always two sides and we are not hearing hers. That said, if myself and most of my friends, both male and female were along with you guys at the water park most all would say "wow, what a bitch or bich" if the first gets censored. This is nuts.
I would just totally ignore her. She is acting like a bratty 16 year old. Seriously the pizza was not cut correctly? Don't you DARE cater to this crap. You will NEVER win. Everything you do, no matter what, is wrong.
Dude you really need to man up here and stop letting her do this. The answer to the salad is, wow, I'm sorry, I asked for no onion, you can pick them off" the answer to you're throwing the ball too hard is to ignore her. Do not respond at all. Like a 16 year old she wants to get a rise and response out if you. Stop responding at all as if she is not there. If you were throwing it slower she would have said you're not throwing it fast or hard enough.
I hate to say but at this point you are married to a 16 year old brat who is modeling this for D. Your D will grow up to be a bit ch to her guys because that's all she knows. This is normal to her because mom does it. This kills me. I hate that for her.
Please stop playing her game. Act as if. Ignore her crap and let her sit by herself just like you would do with a bratty teen. She can either be by herself and watch or join the family.
You can't live like this you have to detach and let her find her way.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
LT, your W sounds like she's in a real bad place. Sorry to hear.
One Q though: when your W insisted the very first time that she wants to drive, why didn't you just let her? What's the worst that could have happened? A fender bender as you get out of your neighborhood? Probably worth all the poisonous vitriol that followed...
Just armchair quarterbacking ...
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
Journaling real quick. Up at 8am yesterday w/ D at the water park. Hung out w/ her until 930 then W, D, and I went and grabbed breakfast. D and I spent some time together at the arcade until about 11 and then we all hit the park.
W didn't bring her suit. Kept telling D it was bc she didn't feel like shaving. So W sat at a table for 5 hours while D and I did the water slides, pools, lazy river, etc. Had a blast with D and I think she had a wonderful time. W pretty much didn't move, sat on her phone the entire time, and drank a couple margaritas. It was almost like she was sulking. Her loss. I loved the time I got to spend with D playing around.
Left there late afternoon and I drove home. W didn't protest as she was a little tipsy from the margaritas. In the car she was in a more bubbly mood and the three of us joked around and it felt like a family for the ride home. Got home and W was back to her sullen mood.
I had to go to a work dinner last night so i showered, hung out with D while W showered, and then left. Got home, said goodnight to W, got no response back, and went to bed. Very much like a teenager.
DonH, there are two sides and i try to be as unbiased on this as possible, but yeah, it seems pretty bad. You are spot on that everything i do is wrong. I've found that her instant response to any thought or opinion i have is to take the opposite side as well. It gets very old.
I am concerned w/ the example it's setting for my D. I also hate that for her. My Ds behavior already changes when my W is around. D tends to cater to her somewhat and I don't think that's healthy either. D is a lot looser and independent when it's just the two of us. D is highly perceptive and i think she picks up on Ws moods. I'd hate for her to be suffering in silence through this.
Will work on ignoring most of her comments/anxiety, but will still address them as necessary. Not fully sure what detached looks like during in house S, but i do know that her emotions/reactions don't drive me most of the time. It's just when we're in close proximity for extended periods that i find myself falling back to my old habits. Also not healthy.
FG, appreciated bud. W does seem to be in a bad place and she does appear to be suffering. I guess it's her choice, but it's hard not to have compassion for her, even with all of the angst she creates.
On the driving I pushed back because I said I'll drive and W just shot back a "No". No compromise out of her. I tried to force some compromise with the back and forth and we got to a silly place (i'll drive out of the neighborhood, you drive the remainder). Logically it doesn't make sense, but in the moment I felt it a point worth pushing back on. She's more than capable of it, I know. However, she always wants to drive (control thing) and I always let her. Rubbed me the wrong way that the time i told her I'd drive she just shoots it down as though she has 100% decision making authority. Again, a silly hill to stand and fight on, but felt it was something worth standing against.
That said, i was not prepared for the level of vitriol it led to. I thought the conversation in the garage to be healthy and that it also continued to show her when she reacts disrespectfully I'm going to not ignore it. Going for consistency of action. Not quite at the forceful approach to addressing this, but showing her I'm not willing to be beat on and be quiet about it anymore.
Headed home from work. Looking forward to reading w/ D tonight. Their whole school is reading a book and discussing it each day. I missed last night bc of the dinner but i'll catch up tonight and read the rest with her. Can't wait!
Me39 M11 : T13 D9 BD 5/31/16 In House S until 6/21/17 Divorced 10/5/18
You're a good man, lt. You have a W that is not just checked out, but one that is actively trying to break you, I think. I honestly don't know how you soldier on, but it must be because you've determined that you have the self-control to shield all of this anger and strife and game-playing your W injects into your home from your D, and that she still enjoys a life with you two that is better than it would be going back and forth.
I've only recently realized I was living a lie and that I was contributing to an environment that isn't good for my kids, and, when I did, going to divorce emotionally-speaking happened really fast. I do wonder where that line is for you but also have incredible admiration for your self-control and ability to insulate your D from the reality of your marriage. To maintain a home that allows her to be a happy kid who can develop in safety. Hang in there, Man -- I will be pulling for you and sending good vibes.
Me: 46 W: 44 Married: 17 Together 21 D13; S10 BD: 03.03.15 (Not attracted to you) Almost 2 years trying, alone, to save marriage Status now: Divorced (effective 06.13.17)
