Moored

[FightOn]

Please don't be so hard on yourself HaWho! Changing the relationship dynamic is so challenging; especially when only one person is doing the work. You'll get this.

I totally understand the difficulty with the silent treatment. It hurts so much to be ignored. For heaven's sake, you live under the same roof! For them to just turn their backs on us as if we were invisible is like a kick to the stomach. But this is THEM. Not us. Normal, civilized human beings don't treat each other this way. I get treated better by the strangers in the elevators I encounter at work everyday. Lol!

Hang in there. You got this.

[marye]

HaWho,

I'm really sorry for everything you're going through! I'm dealing with a MLC H who lives at home.

Mine is also overwhelmed about aging. He adds the line "I'm old" to refer to different things and situations. He's going to the gym more than he used to. He's too concerned about getting ill, even getting a cold. Right after BD, last April, he became obsessed with the film Benjamin Button. He said everybody should be born old and then grow younger. He's feels everything is so unfair!

As to our relationship, he sleep together but he avoids physical contact when we bump into each other in the house. As somebody told you, a stranger would be nicer to me!

You sound so strong ! You'll get through this!

[HaWho]

Thanks Job for some exact advice on countering PA behaviors. It's reassuring to hear you say these behaviors can be retrained if I am consistent in my changes. Right now his habits seem so set that it feels like I am trying to train a dog to act like a cat.

Ginger - thank you, too. Both you and Wonka have said not to accept the disrespectful language and I know you guys are right. But, another key thing I need to do is discontinue having text-sations. I keep getting lured in to these. H knows if he texts me while home I go address him. So, he now waits until he is out for a few hours.

It started again today. H texted me late afternoon saying s11 should go to x middle school. Umm, even if we are someday divorced we need to get to a point where this is not discussed via text. So I read it but did not answer. Then I addressed him at home and we had a mature conversation.

Fighton - yes! Changing the dynamic takes tremendous consistency. No room for backsliding.

Marye- the fear of aging in MLC is brutal. But, I went through my own depression and I did the whole sleep on the edge of the bed/cringe when we bumped thing. I remember finding my h very unattractive. It's part of the depression and had nothing to do with him. At one point h asked me why I never made eye contact with him! I remember thinking that he was such a controlling person. But I wasn't making eye contact anymore...

As for me, tonight at dinner I realized that h is back to doing that thing where he talks only to the kids and categorically so. He'll say "so boys, listen to this" or "boys, did you know..." At one point I chimed into the conversation and h did not acknowledge my comment at all. I decided I will no longer stay at the table after I have eaten. If I were at any other social setting and being treated that way, I would politely remove myself from the situation. I have plenty of other things to do than to sit there and be openly ignored.

I am not mad. It's just a waste of my time to put up with that.

Thanks everyone for all your help. I truly appreciate your input. I will work on all this.

[roist]

Hawho, that stinks. At times I have endured that to a lesser degree. My W would let me know stuff by saying it to the kids in front of me. Or barely acknowledging my presence.

I understand you wanting to leave the table but I am not sure it is your best move. My W was less aggressive in this so maybe my advice is not appropriate.

I used several approaches:
# I ignored the information and if it came up again I stated she didn't tell me, though she may have mentioned something about it it sons.
# I would pose a direct question immediately. She usually answered.In your case maybe you could do that and then state, that you posed him a question...
# I directly told her if she had something to tell me I would only react to it if told directly . Of course i did this without the kids being there.

Things are better now. Not perfect but definitely better, so it can improve.

I know your issue is being ignored. It is tougher but people here have often said that people treat us the way we let them. We cannot force them to do something but we can decide what we will tolerate. I hate saying what I would do in your place because it is complacent,but maybe I would take h aside and tell him if he continues to treat you like that he won't eat with ye at mealtimes. Maybe I am being harsh as we are advised to ignore bad behavior and reward/encourage good behavior.

Best wishes

[HaWho]

Thanks Roist. Good advice; solid as always.

I have begun addressing the PA behaviors. But, as I tackle this pile over here new ones crop up over there. Here's a new one. H joins us at the table for dinner but does not eat the meal with us. He covers it and puts it in the fridge. Then, the next day, as I am making dinner, he comes in, grabs the meal from the night before, takes it to the dorm room and eats it there.

This weekend he tried to pull the "separate cars to 20 miles away" routine. I had to drop s13 off somewhere and was coming back home to eat dinner and then go to s11's game. As I was leaving h said we could drive separately. His plan was to leave before I returned but if he just waited 5 minutes we could all go together. Sigh.

I went into the dorm room and used Job's line: "with gas prices and wear and tear on the car, are you sure you want to drive separately?" But, I admit there was annoyance in my tone. How long must I endure this stupidity? (For you all it's a rhetorical question. For God though, it is a serious question. And I do feel my toe tapping...)

H gaslit me: "I thought that would be easier for you!" (Yeah sure.) "I am just here trying to eat my dinner" (the one he wrapped up from last night even though we are going to eat dinner in 20 minutes when I return!) Innocently: "You do whatever you want." Yeah, sure.

Then in the car on the way to the game it was back to "s11 did I ever tell you ..." "Hey s11 yesterday I ..." Every sentence specified for s11. I just acted as if but I had this imaginary scenario in my head where I sent God an email pinging him with a subject line like: "bumping this up to the top of your to-do list." And in the body of the email I would ask him if he'd forgotten about this nut job on my left.

One morning this week I clarified something financial with him. I did it face-to-face. Then I left for work. Afterwards of course, he sent me a text (seconds later) with a light bit of spew. I ignored it completely.

I am learning lots of new things at work. The people are so nice. There is a fundamental respect there that I SO appreciate not just because of my last workplace but also because my h is crazy.

[job]

Okay, this man is not happy and he's doing everything he can to get you to lose your cool. I swear, I would be tempted to take the plate of food that he puts in the fridge and toss it out so that he would have to either eat what was fixed on that particular day or he would go hungry. He is beyond rude and, if I were in your shoes, I would call him out on his behavior. Wouldn't you call your sons out when they are rude? Well then, call your Peter Pan out when he's rude. He needs to learn some manner and respect for all family members.

BTW, I'm sorry he's being such a pita.

[HaWho]

I do feel like he wants me to be as miserable as he is. He wants me to explode. I know he does.


Today on the way to s11's game it was back to: "s11 did you know...," "s11 did I ever tell you...," "s11 what did you think of x?" All the while with me sitting there in the car with them.

Job- I was thinking about how I would handle this meal stunt if s13 pulled this. I am contemplating a few options about the meals. I like your idea.

I also am thinking about cutting off his gravy train. I think, before I start to make dinner I will go into his room and ask him if he plans to eat this evening. If the answer is not a categorical yes, I will not make him dinner and I'll politely tell him so. If he is crafty he will start to say "no, not right, but I'll eat it later," then I'll still not make dinner. I am leaning this way to make it clear dinner is now or not at all.

I will be direct. If he starts to say yes, he's eating, but doesn't, I'll stop cooking him meals altogether. I will tell him "you don't seem to want to eat with us anymore so I won't be cooking you meals anymore."

Clearly he is gunning for a fight because he comes into the kitchen for his wrapped meal at the exact time I am cooking that night's meal.

In my fantasy life I am the WAW.

[LouR]

Hey H, I really don't know what to say, just want you to have HUGE hug and for you to know you are in my thoughts.

I really really don't know how you are staying as cool and tolerant as you are, you are an incredible woman HaWho, your tolerance and patience is beyond anyone I know.

I know in the past you have talked about your h dealing with your own depression and its one reason you are pushing through and putting up with his behaviour, but sheez, seriously H, you deserve to be treated with respect and love and your h has shown no signs of being capable of either for a while now .I am so so sorry and sad that you and you boys are having to live like this, but admire you for persevering with a extremely difficult and challenging situation. You are a walking advert for holding to your wedding vows !!

I have no thoughts on your latest issue, I am far less tolerant, I would have told him to either eat with the family or cook his own food, choose one option, end of subject. I do feel job is right in saying that he is pushing for a fight, he is looking for the excuse and you are not giving it to him, so he is pushing harder. Your boys are going to be late teens soon enough and believe me they will push the boundaries (which you are going to be such an expert at by then lol) even the most sweetest child has their moments, so do you want you boys growing up seeing this behaviour and how your h treats you and starts to re enact that ......?

Making your h understand what is and isn't acceptable is also helping your boys understand it too, they are watching and taking this all in, so if you don't want to get a bit tougher for your sake, then do it for your boys sake.

HaWho, I genuinely want to see you, your h and your family come through this, you have travelled such a long way down the MLC path together, but I also want to see you be ok, to live and love life and be happy, so please look after YOU in all this, remember you are valid and have the right to live in an environment that is respectful.

I am sending you so much love and wish I could give you a big hug and have a few glasses ...bottles ...of something pink and share tales of MLC crazy antics with you. xoxp

[roist]

I had been mulling over your meal issue and it is a tricky one. That being said you do need to stand up to it. This is a boundary about you and about being an example to your sons. I agree with LouR that if you are walked over in front of your sons,they could follow that example.

But even from a simple manners point of view it is a bad example (speaking about H not you!!!) I personally would say to him that his behavior is not an acceptable example for your sons. Maybe he would push back less from that standpoint as opposed to you not liking how he is treating you.

I think that in his current state of mind he would prefer to make this about you and him . He gave you the extreme silent treatment for a week because he did not like what you said to him. He was vexed about not getting his way about the two cars. Right now no matter what you do or say he takes it personally and is angrier with you. To him YOU are the problem.

Don't let fear of his reaction stop you standing up to him, but be mindful that some approaches and wording could be easier turned against you. No point it stirring a hornets nest if you can just fumigate it.

I don't like the idea of dumping his dinners. It is provoking him and wasting good food. I do like your suggested approach. I am impressed that you found such a humane response. Approaching H beforehand is perfect. Much better than just not preparing his meal, which no one would blame you for by the way. I think that throughout this situation we should strive to behave the best we can regardless of what they deserve.

Can I ask you why you are not a WAW? I may have missed this point in SN earlier thread. If so sorry. I don't want you to walk sway, but I am curious as to your mindset. Recently you doubted if you would want him back, yet you stick out your situation. Many would have booted H out long ago. Yet you have patiently endured his antics. I admire your stance and your patience.II am just curious about your inner thinking about where YOU are at.

Best wishes

[kml]

Maybe his craziness about the meals has to do with his ZoCD? Maybe he's waiting 24 hours to makes sure none of you die from accidental poisoning until he digs in.