Intentional Abuse. Boundaries and Self-Improvement

[PsySara]

Ginger has the wise. My coach said boundaries are for you but be careful not to fence yourself and the other person in. This is a constant practice and I cannot imagine how hard it must be for you, Surfer. Your XW tries to test your boundaries like a petulant child so the tricky part is on your side.

You're sounding a lot more confident and grounded!

[Surfer]

Journaling...

W and I are getting along better. Showing more respect for time boundaries etc. Even helping each other a little with small things - a grocery pick up, changing plans to make things work as much as possible re. having kids etc.

I definitely do not want my W back. I do love her though, as a friend, but not my best friend, but more than a neighbour yet lots less than the best friend she was. Kids are fine, as we are fine. Work is really busy and I am cracking away on that front.

I met someone recently and have been out for drinks/a meal. Really lovely, but it is very early days and I need to be careful. I think there is a tendency, when you have suffered from years of withholding, abuse, raging etc to want to run to someone that shows you genuine care, kindness and love. Limerance becomes a genuine 'risk'. I am trying to stay as level headed as possible with this whole thing. I have come to terms with the fact that my WW disrespected me for years, resented me too and has little sense of loss for the M following an A. I do not hold bitterness towards her as I am partly to blame - for any disconnection (but I was apologetic, keen to work at anything etc), but I also know that I may not have been able to prevent this. I also feel that there is something deeper seated in my W. I was recently in touch with the author of a prominent abuse book. She clarified that regular 'raging' can be a sign of mental illness or a personality disorder. My W raged from early days in our R (18 years ago) albeit twice a year to nightly prior to her leaving. At that point she had escalated to physical violence (just once) a verbal abusers always escalate towards physical violence. If this expert author is correct, there is nothing I could have done to prevent my W's 'issues'. Also there is nothing I can do to help her. She needs professional help, which she rejected (our MC alluded to her anger and said she needed help with this - W denied this anger: denied the problem).

Whilst I have been feeling guilty for thinking about moving on with a R elsewhere, as I am technically married albeit separated and in the early stages of divorce, I believe that my W has clearly stated and shown repeatedly over the last 3 years, and emphatically, that she does not want me or the M. She has done this with a total of 7 years of withholding, years more of abuse and raging, disrespect, resentment and A and physical violence. So, forget it. I can sit waiting for her to come home to our old life (she won't change I understand from the expert author - women just don't when they are abusive apparently, or she has never seen it) or I can create a new life. One that is built around me, my children and another partner in the future. One that is full of love and kindness and fun.

For now I will observe what happens with W, but I am not going to hang on to any strings anymore. I just don't. They are all dropped. No rollercoaster either. Yes I am sad at times, sometimes lonely, but hey, that's definitely not going to be forever. I won't be waiting in the wings. I will be moving forward now.

A final point. To push forward with the D or not? I am tempted, but I do feel this is her journey still.

Surfer.

[lt0402]

Wow, so much in that last post Surfer! Can't post in detail right now but will in the morning. You've got some interesting and it sounds like good things going on

[Sotto]

Hi Surfer, this is JMHO of course - but I would have concerns about bringing an OP into the mix right now. You are not D'd and have chosen not to file for D - so why date?

You don't sound to be at a point where you are healthy, healed and ready to be a suitable new partner for someone. I would encourage you to google relationships and entanglements and have a think about where you are at and what you are doing?

Also, V posted a helpful list of Q's on 'am I ready for dating?' It may be worth reading these. Sorry if I'm being a bit of a Debbie Downer, but I really wouldn't date a guy who is at the stage you are at....

Hope this helps a little anyway - though I appreciate it may not be what you hoped to read, it is well meant

[SH_]

I echo sotto...
You are wildly all over the place and would benefit much by sitting still for a spell.
You have shared some hyper diagnosing of your wife and perhaps this has you swinging much...
I have read and looked into the author and material that you have shared much on and while I find much valid info, the material is from one source and has much definitivness to it. Be cautious in taking one point of view and applying it so specifically as you have...there is always more to it when psychology is involved...seek more information to understand verbal and emotional abuse...I do not beleive that "emotional abuse" or "verbal abuser" is a label...it is an action...much caution we should use when applying it. Emotional behaviors are learned from childhood, and may not be so evil as we like to apply the labels to others...you have shared your understanding of this and understand most of us have committed this action... intent is a key as you share. You have excused your actions because you know your intent. You have condemned your W and labeled her because you have perceived her intent...but can you say that you truely know her intent?

Your search to place a reason on your W's behavior appears to have given you a sense of closure and desire to move on quite quickly...I have shared a theme with you that your sharing with us is still missing...a DB principle.
DB principle...focus on yourself and your side of the street...
In my reading about How A man thinketh, it is discussed how a man can not believe in two separate things...I have seen much value in this information to help maintain my swing...

Buddha definitely taught that right belief is the first and most essential step in the Way of Truth, as without right belief there cannot be right conduct, and he who has not learned how to rightly govern and conduct himself, has not yet comprehended the simplest rudiments of Truth.

Belief as laid down by the Great Teachers, is not belief in any particular school, philosophy, or religion, but consists of an altitude of mind determining the whole course of one's life. Belief and conduct are, therefore inseparable, for the one determines the other.

Belief is the basis of all action, and, this being so, the belief which dominates the hearts or mind is shown in the life. Every man acts, thinks, lives in exact accordance with the belief which is rooted in his innermost being, and such is the mathematical nature of the laws which govern mind that it is absolutely impossible for anyone to believe in two opposing conditions at the same time. For instance, it is impossible to believe in justice and injustice, hatred and love, peace and strife, self and truth. Every man believes in one or the other of these opposites, never in both, and the daily conduct of every man indicates the nature of his belief. The man who believes in justice, who regards it as an eternal and indestructible Principle, never boils over with righteous indignation, does not grow cynical and pessimistic over the inequalities of life, and remains calm and untroubled through all trials and difficulties. It is impossible for him to act otherwise, for he believes that justice reigns, and that, therefore, all that is called injustice is fleeting and illusory.

The man who is continually getting enraged over the injustice of his fellow men, who talks about himself being badly treated, or who mourns over the lack of justice in the world around him, shows by his conduct, his attitude of mind, that he believes in injustice. However he may protest to the contrary, in his inmost heart he believes that confusion and chaos are dominant in the universe, the result being that he dwells in misery and unrest, and his conduct is faulty.

Again, he who believes in love, in its stability and power, practices it under all circumstances, never deviates from it, and bestows it alike upon enemies as upon friends. He who slanders and condemns, who speaks disparagingly of others, or regards them with contempt, believes not in love, but hatred; all his actions prove it, even though with tongue or pen he may eulogize love.

Stay focused on you.
Avoid labeling and condemning her actions as her label so that you can feel detached...remember healthy detachment is a choice, not a feeling.
Learn how to manage her behaviors that affect you...not to judge her intentions...
Remember time is your gift...
Moving on now appears to be rushing forward and a pain killer for the emotional pain you have been inflicted...pain killers feel good...there are many side effects and can be the source of long term pain.

Just my 2c, and there are many authors and studies that you can look to that will share the healthy emotional benefits to what sotto has encouraged you on.

Stay the course my friend.

[Surfer]

Sotto,

Thanks. I get this. But I do need to move forward with my life at some point. I do not want my W back. She will not change. I have not filed for D correct. I am still not fully stable at times, but I am not far off. I also am not having a physical relationship with anyone. GAL it is, affair it's not. At some point if this person or a.n.other becomes an OP then surely that is not wrong? IDK. When is it right? At some point surely we just need to accept things and move forward?

I will google and read that thanks for the advice. I totally appreciate you're thoughts.

SH, justice and love. I really agree with a lot of what you have written. I have found some closure in understanding my W's behaviour. Yes, it is a choice. And no I can't understand her intent for her actions would have been correct, because they will have been backed up by correct motivation (in her mind). I do not seek to label her or condemn her. I have sad memories of the choices she has made but I do not want to do anything but still feel love for her as the M of my children.

If moving on is rushing I have to look at the alternative and wonder what is the point in standing still? I have stood still for 7 years. I understand a lot, but at times do we not seem to be turning into pseudo pschotherapists who are over analysing so much. Perhaps just to take a step back and enjoy life is what we should be doing. IDK, I just think 7 years of eggshells, frustration, with the odd rage from the beginning up to constant raging and physical violence, it just seems to be an odd thing to hang on for doesn't it? The withholding was constant and spiteful actions were habitual. I mean, if I was your D, asking you if I should hang on for a man that has acted like my W (that includes the disrespect, affair etc), would you really say hang in there? I am not sure you would. I am certain that I wouldn't be 100% confident that was the right course of action.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

LT

I do have some good things going on but I do also need to think about the opposite view and that is reflected by Sotto and SH. I need to be careful at this point. I need to take care to make sure I don't end up with an OP because it feels nice and so I can move forward, just to stumble further down the road.

Ultimately however, I do deserve to be happy, provided that is not at the expense of others.

All choices, it's good to have choices.

Surfer.

[PsySara]

Hey Surfer,

Have you ever seen the movie 28 days with Sandra Bullock? It's about a woman recovering from alcoholism, it's really good and I recommend it. Anyway, there's a point where a character asks when is it safe to start daxting again. The teacher tells the man to get a plant and take care of it for 6 months, if that is successful then get a pet and care for it as well for 6 months, finally if both plant and animal are alive and thriving after 12 months then it's okay to start dating.

We are recovering from a sort of addiction, our spouses and our need to "fix" them. I have been guilty of dissecting my WH's behavior and trying to find the approach for him ti have the AHA! moment. This is a very codependent behavior I have and I am trying to develop better coping skills. I have been VERY tempted to go dating just to feel wanted again, to feel desirable. But the fact is I am married (albeit to a very detached husband) and it is wrong to go on a date with another man. If you are done with your wife, if you will choose to move on by seeing other women, then divorce. Otherwise return to making yourself a super hawt guy that everyone will admire and put the relationship making on hold.

[Surfer]

Went round to a friends last night. She was a bit down so I offered to cook her and her flat mate dinner. Had a few drinks and laughs and stayed over. My friend is talking abo a little holiday in March. Sounds good.

Gym and work today. I also need to dismantle Christmas....

Need to get off my backside!

Surfer.

[Surfer]

Sotto,

Read about relationships and entanglements. My marriage was an entanglement. I also see that it could be possible to walk into a new entanglement rather than a R. I will read around this more. Thank you.

Surfer.