WAS vs MLC..not sure it really makes a diffence

[SBJ]

Skyhigh...great post. I went to have drinks with a couple of friends after work yesterday...both of which have gone thru D. One was alcohol related and one MLC. They both said similar if not exact things that you did. They had several 2x4's that were swung with love. Because this was not our decision is what makes this so difficult. Our spouses have been thinking of leaving for months if not years before they let us know.

One of my sons liked the Mummy movies and there was a line in the first one that said "only the destination is told...the journey is unknown". Something like that. I think happiness is our destination, but we will all travel different journeys to get there. It just [censored] that the people we thought were our forever partners left us for a false reality.

Another TV quote...my daughter watched Glee and at one point one of the girls was told..."aren't you happy...now you have everything you ever wanted". Obviously that should be applied to the ones that left, but they left us, and now we need to figure out what's next for us. If our spouses come around then we will decide whether to accept them. If they never do then we decide our futures. Either way we are in control of our own future.

[skm0619]

skyhigh......thank you for wonderful words of wisdom.

I have already filed for divorce in May, it is uncontested as we have no children. He has not done anything on his part in regard to the divorce (has not spoken with a lawyer or found out what his rights are) as far as I am aware. He is content to just stay in his limbo. HE is the one who wanted to divorce but what I am confused about is why hasn't he pursued anything?

I do worry about his spending. I have access to his credit card online and I see it continuing to grow every couple of days. This does scare me, but according to my lawyer these are his debts because they happened after the separation so they will be his to pay for, not mine. To be honest I don't think he is smart enough to know that he can borrow against the house.

I am in the most amount of pain I have ever been in my life. He is living his life without any regard for me and that [censored]!! But, that is his choice. What is really hard for me is that he has said he not seeing anyone right now, which I am not sure I believe. I am at work right now and I now for a fact that the person I have been wondering if he is having a relationship with just picked him up to take him out for New Years Eve. So he continues to lie.

I am totally okay with the 2x4. I am the kind of person who can dish it out and who can take it Unfortunately for me I don't really have any friends who want to talk about any of this with me. When they do talk the only thing they say is "you need to divorce him" or "I cant believe how he is acting this way" or "you need to do what you think is best" All of my friend are married and have children, and being that I do not have children we lead very different lifestyles. Their priority is THEIR family, which I understand.

I hear everyone say GAL, 180, detach but this is what I am really struggling with. I feel so alone and feel like I have been left to do all of this on my own and it is really hard. I don't call him, text or email him unless absolutely necessary so I guess I have detached somewhat, but I just don't feel like I am doing a very good job at all of this because he is consuming my every thought and I know he is NOT thinking about me at all.

[SBJ]

I relate to feeling alone and having them on the mind all theta me, but please realize that you aren't alone. Please post when you are feeling it and know that we are here praying for you and your situation every day.

Like you I am hoping 2017 is much better than 2016 was...

[skyhigh]

Did you have any support group in your area? Just an idea.

I know people who can understand you and really feel what you are going through are the ones who went through, the others, they just don't get it. Usually they have preconceived ideas and their opinions are pretty white and black... So please keep posting, it helps to externalize your emotions and it helps also to sort them out.

Did you meet with an IC specialized with infidelity?
Did you revisit the idea of taking something to help you for a few months? It helps with obsessing ideas, I know it helped me a lot.
You are dealing with PTSD, you have been traumatized, it's Ok to look for help. Another 2X 4.
Again just more ideas!

For sure he is living his life without any consideration whatsoever for you because he is in full MLC replay, so his only concern is his "pursuit of happiness" and "youth". Don't expect anything from him, nothing for a few months.

It seems you are doing a great job about detaching, which is not easy it goes against our own instinct. But for the long run, it is better, the more you will pursue the more you will push him away. Even if it hurts you inside. Also one of my GAL, was to listen to some TED talks, that idea came from my son, so I started to listen to them during my walks, my car rides... it was my way of not listening to my obsessing thoughts and the positive side, I learned so much on so many different subjects...

Why he didn't file? Here some ideas.

- he didn't make his mind yet about the divorce, he is ambivalent, he is sitting on the fence, on one side you and on the other side the OW. Don't think because he left you he is happy, his ultra consumption of goods is a sign he is not, he is trying to fill a void right now, so even if he has OW, she is not enough. He cannot anymore blame you for his unhappiness since you are not part of his daily life anymore and you are not pursuing him, so may be he is starting to realize that being separated and "enjoying OW" are not the solution to his issues. After a while, the fantasy goes away and the reality kicks in. OW most of the time have also issues, they are dealing with their own sense of self esteem. They play it light and fun at the beginning and then they push for commitment, they nag... so the MLCer has to find ways to escape... my wife doesn't want a divorce, our situation is complicated... while never asking for one or filing for one, but he OW is clueless about that. Remember they lie to us but they lie also to others and OW. Lying is part of their life.

- OW is in a relationship or/and have children and needs time so he is not in a hurry to file for a divorce.

- OW doesn't want to commit to the relationship full time. She is starting to see him for what he is in "real life", and it's different from what she imagined it. She is starting to have cold feet. May be he is her plan B while she looks for another plan A. Remember they both have issues and are lying to each other.

- you mentioned he was from England, does he have the U.S. citizenship?


Don't expect him to tell you the truth about the OW, he will deny it until the end, mine kept denying he was cheating for months while my guts were telling me something was going on. So don't believe anything he will tell you, he just doesn't want you to know anything about his life and he wants to avoid any drama. Lying is part of MLC.

What do you know about his OW?
Is the same OW as last year?
Is she much younger?
Is she after him for the lifestyle, gifts... he can bring her?

Answering those questions can give you may be a shot about why he didn't file.
Usually if OW is the "love of their life", they file right away. Otherwise it means they are just a "toy" they like because it flatters their egos. They love OW for what they make them feel. Remember they are selfish. They are using them for what they can provide them with.

Take care of yourself, go for a walk, listen to something (so you won't think about something else), take a long shower, use those beauty products you bought and never used... do your hair, put some perfume on. Use Facebook to connect with what's going on in your town, events, fundraising...

My new goal, learning how to play piano. I will start with some you tube videos. I have a piano sitting a home and my kids gave up years ago...

[skm0619]

Prior to going on my hiatus from work I was going to IC and it was with someone who specialized in infidelity. I did find it helpful. I was starting to do EMDR. But as I continued to go I would cry so much during the session that I started to not want to go back. Since I have been gone for 6 weeks I have not seen my IC. I am deciding whether I want to return or not. He is familiar with my H because he was one of the counselors who was at our intensive marriage retreat and was assigned to help us during those days.

I am really considering talking to someone about starting some meds to help me with the obsessive thoughts. I am totally dealing with PTSD!!

As far as the OW.....

When I found out about his affair last year the OW was (is) married and has 2 children. She does not live in the same city as we do (lives 3 hours away). The day I found out about it I made him call her and I also spoke to her and she denied everything of course. He has told me that he has not spoken to her since that day.

The NEW OW is someone who he has had a friendship with through his job for several years. He works as a sports massage therapist and has MANY female clients and she is one of them. When we were first separated she sent him texts messages asking him to go out "as friends of course" but then continued to be flirty with him, and I know they text and speak often. When I have brought her up he says "she is not my girlfriend" and is very protective and defensive of her. She is the one who he went out with last night for NYE. She is someone who works out a lot which is very important to him, she is younger then him, but not much, is divorced and does not have any children either.

I think he has bought her a Christmas gift but I can not be certain. I think that they are flirty with each other and if it hasn't happened already, I feel they will be moving the relationship to be more intimate very soon. She is aware that he is still married, but I wouldn't put it past him to tell people he is divorced even when he isn't. He cant offer her anything she does not already have. He used to talk about her before we were separated and she has her own business, and owns her own home. She seems to be doing well on her own financially. He CAN NOT support anyone financially, he can barely make his own bills.

He is from England. He does not have citizenship but does have permanent legal residency because of our marriage. I have asked him to move back to England but he says "this is my home now."

He is ALWAYS discussing his problems with other females, and craves female attention. Like I mentioned earlier, he is British and women seem to be attracted to him because of that. He is very charming too and will say and do all the right things because that's what makes HIM feel better.

I do know that he has signed himself up for Landmark Forum. I am unfamiliar with this but have read a few things about it. My IC says it is going to be tough on him because he is not someone who opens up emotionally at all, and this forum can be brutal on people. I'm sure I will not know how that goes for him because he will not share any of it.

I'm mentally exhausted, but I don't really think I have anyone to blame for this but myself. I know what I should do but SH*T it is hard!!

I appreciate everyone here. I could not make it through any of this without you .

[skyhigh]

I just reread your previous post about you filing for divorce
"He is the one who wanted to divorce but what I am confused about is why he hasn't pursued anything"?

MLCers like to push their spouses to file for divorce (by telling us I don't love you, I am feeling nothing for you, it's over...) like that they are shifting the blame/decision of the divorce from them to their spouses, from abusers they become victims in the eyes of others (society). He didn't pursue anything, may be he wants you to do the heavy lifting.

Now do you still want the divorce?

- If yes, the proceeding will keep going.
- If no, call your lawyer and ask him to suspend the process (you are reconsidering your position and taking a break from the process). Then wait to see if your husband will react to it. It can also give you an idea of his position and it might stir something between your husband and OW, if she thinks he is divorced or might get it very soon. Remember they are lying to OW too most of the time.

Mine told OW1 (I had a few conversations with her after they were done, she was feeling so guilty and so afraid of me spreading the news to her kids and others), that he asked for a divorce and I refused, he never asked for one and I do remember asking him if he wanted one, he said no. But it was his twisted way (lying again) to keep her going on with the relationship (he liked how she was making him feel) while she wanted more of it (him leaving me),he was ambivalent, deep down he just didn't want to have to choose, he knew it was going to be a major decision, meanwhile he was nasty with us, probably trying to push me to file so the decision at the end would have been mine, and in his twisted mind he could have said to others, "my wife wanted it" shifting the blame of the divorce from him to me .

Remember their mind is different from us, they are in their own world.

She believed all his promises, all his words, all his lies... Remember they are stroking each other egos.

Spread the news to whom might still be in contact with your husband/OW during a casual conversation, that you are not divorced and things are in suspend (you are reconsidering your position for a while). Then wait!

Bottom line It's up to you to decide what do you want to do at that moment, knowing it's ok to change your mind later on. Sometimes I feel that dealing with a WH is like playing chess. Game plan is everything. I messed up so much at the beginning.

I learned something, don't show your cards, always keep your real intentions for yourself, they are manipulating us so why not doing the same to give us some time to think about what we really want, acting instead of reacting. They have been pushing our buttons and thinking about leaving us for years but it is new for us, we need time to stabilize our thoughts, think ICU versus rehab center.

Replay phase can last from 1 years to 4/5 years or more, 2 years being the average.
Replay usually starts at BD.

Also why such an accomplished woman as you describe her is going after a married man who has issues? She must have a few herself.

That's something I realized, my husband other women, even if from the outside looked pretty good, they were damaged somewhere. I just realized they were so desperate to be "loved" that they were stroking his ego non stop, something he couldn't resist, he liked the feeling of it but he didn't really care about them. They were pretty nice at the beginning but with time they started to have demands "as a wife does", something that he was not expecting.
Remember time is your ally even if it is nerve wrecking.
If you want to have another chance at your relationship with him, don't make your divorce easy on him, being married is right now the only connection you have still with him after that ... specially if you have OW waiting to take your spot.

I am passing down to you what I learned from my mistakes, my trials and from what was passed downs to me by my friends who shared that same journey. I am still in the process, I don't know how it will end, but right now I have the OW out of the picture and him thinking about what he did and in what mess he put himself in, he is not sharing his mind with me but from his actions I can tell. Men are not like women, they don't talk about feelings they show them by their actions, in their own masculine ways.

Good night dear Skm, try to sleep,

[MrBond]

"I am in the most amount of pain I have ever been in my life. He is living his life without any regard for me and that [censored]!! But, that is his choice."

In your very first post here you said that he cheated on you because he felt that you didn't love him enough and didn't need him and you agreed. What did you do to change that?

Sometimes you have to let the time go by so that the changes really sink in.

[skm0619]

Skyhigh.....as always thank you for your words of wisdom.

I have been thinking for the past 3 months that I really wanted to file a non suit in regard to the divorce. Basically meaning I am no longer interested in moving forward with it, and since he has not done anything on his side of things it would be simple. I actually mentioned it to my lawyer a while ago and he gave me the legal documents that I needed and all I had to do was take them to the court house to file them. For some reason the papers have been sitting on my counter and I would look at them often, but would never file them. Today I finally decided that since I never really wanted the D that I would take the paperwork to the courthouse....so I did. So if my H wants a divorce he can do all the leg work.

I'm not really sure why I am telling everyone this, but I just needed to let "someone" know.

On a different note.....I took my dog to the vet today and he needs surgery. It has been scheduled for tomorrow. I do not initiate communication with my H unless necessary. He loves this dog like crazy so I felt like he should know, so I sent him a text. Unfortunately that was 7 hours ago and he has not responded. Makes me sad to think that he can not find it in himself to at least check up on his sweet precious dog.

[skm0619]

Mr Bond.....

I did post that the reason my H gave me for his infidelity was that he felt that I did not love him enough or need him enough. For me those were justifications on his part. This was never communicated to me prior to finding out about the affair because if it had been I would like to think that I would have done anything and everything to make things right because I loved him the best I knew how. I asked him on multiple occasions if he was happy and if not was there something I was doing that was making him feel that way. I used to have very vivid nightmares about him having sex with someone else and would mention that to him and he would say "sweetheart, I would never cheat on you" when in fact he was. I also asked him on several occasions if he was seeing someone else because he had become distant, and each time he would say there was no one else.

Unfortunately I was not given the opportunity to try and change any of that because the day I found out about the OW I asked him to leave the house and he has not been back since. He has not shown remorse, regret or any other emotion when it comes to what he did. So when I say I am in the most amount of pain I have ever been in I really mean that. This man walked away from me and our marriage and did not even try to work on it at all, and to me that is selfish and not to mention unfair....and that makes me very sad.

I am working hard on trying to become a better person. I am giving myself time. Now, if that time is also allowing him to see who he was during the OW and after that would be wonderful. But as we all know I have absolutely no control over what he does.

[MrBond]

"I did post that the reason my H gave me for his infidelity was that he felt that I did not love him enough or need him enough. For me those were justifications on his part."

I get that but did you know WHY he believed that? Do you agree with what he said? Even through your actions afterwards, it sounds like you are the type that needs to be in control of a situation. Maybe that's why he believed you didn't need him. Did you maybe criticize the things he did or maybe say something in a way that you thought was joking but he didn't?

"This was never communicated to me prior to finding out about the affair"

None of this ever is. But maybe there were ways that he communicated it to you without speaking. Did he shut down when you talked about how he did something? That's a way of communication.

"because if it had been I would like to think that I would have done anything and everything to make things right because I loved him the best I knew how."

And that's the key. Good M skills aren't natural. They're learned.

"Unfortunately I was not given the opportunity to try and change any of that"

You said you read DR. If you did, you would see that just because there is another person or even a divorce, you still can change it. The point is whether or not you want to. You seem like the very "matter of fact" type of person. Your M can still be saved. You just have to want to make the changes.

Now I want to stress that your actions are not to blame for your H seeking someone else, but if you want to save your relationship, YOU have to be the one to change.