Help - Setting Boundaries, WW in EA - Thread #2

[Gordie]

Today I am full of self doubt, fear, loneliness- I know I need to break out of the status quo, but I am struggling to be positive - I need to rekindle friendships, make new ones. I have let so much slide these past years.

We all have bad days. Do something for yourself today.

[Sotto]

Hi Woke Up, it's good to realise this and take action. Initial faltering steps can pay dividends further down the line.

I'll tell you what helped me - I decided to try at least one new thing each month - something that might become a regular thing for me. This stuff included yoga, volunteering at a bookstore, salsa, Aquafit, ladies social group...

Over a period of time, some of these things stuck - others fell by the wayside - but I built a new life for myself, where my social needs were met and made new friendships along the way.

Start with making a list of three things you would like to do. Ideally, these should get you out and about, interacting with people. Not necessarily in a purely social setting, which I think can be a bit intimidating - but for example yoga puts you among people doing a similar activity and over time, you may build links and so on...

So, let's see your initial list of three things and what initial steps you are going to take to start the first one up in January?

Press the forward motion button - even if forward is just baby steps...

[Woke_Up]

Journaling:

It has been a day of arguments or attempted arguments, since the 'moving the bed' issue. I am apparently a beta male, not a leader, and not willing to protect my family - apparently she 'had' to move it because of the new bed coming, therefore I forced her by not doing it. If I was an alpha she would never have needed to look for another man, etc etc.

She kept going back to me saying it was 'weird' when she tried to lay across me on the sofa yesterday, and that it was if it was weird, why would I ML to her, etc. (She had started this by saying to D that daddy didn't want her there anyway, when she did it) We had a long conversation last night in bed about it, I said it was weird due to her EA, and that I realised I couldn't love her back to me, or sex her back to me. It was a meandering conversation, not sure it resolved anything. It kept spiralling back to me saying I wouldn't wrk on things while A was in progress. That came up today, and WW asked why should she think I would work on anything if she ended A, if I hadn't worked on anything before. I asked her if she thought just I had to work on things or whether she had to work on things to. She didn't really answer, she said she knew she had faults, but didn't say she would actually work on them.

She has decided to have D4's room and D4 will have the spare room. D4 seems OK with this, a bit of excitement and change. She didn't like her room much lately, hence sleeping back in the MBR with us. Mind you she also asked where I would be sleeping when mummy moved room, and if I would sleep in her (D4's) room with her.

Sad to say that a lot of these conversations & arguments today were in front of D4, including being told I was a bad man, and then D4 piping up that I was good. It breaks my heart that we can't have these things in private, without the kids around. She even told me she'd spoken to D4 about moving to the village where we used to live (where D's school is). I said that we should have these discussions with D together.

I think it looks like we are heading for an in house S. She was bent on moving into another room anyway, blaming her lack of sleep. I want her in another room - I wasn't willing to go back in the spare room.

She thinks I should give her the house and not worry about my 'half'. TBH, I'm not worried, I'm just not going to commit to anything until I speak to a L - I have an appointment on Wednesday.

I think if I did that she would struggle, I honestly don't think she appreciates the running costs and the mortgage. She thinks the child maintenance I would provide would just about cover everything - I don't think it would. I also wouldn't be working a contracting away from home to provide for my W & family if this happened. I would get a regular job closer to home so I could see my kids and share custody. The downside is that there would be less money available, for all of us. This is not a punishment - I honestly think it would be better for me & the kids for me to be closer to home.

I am hopeful that my online course in Agile PM will help me get a job closer to home, so I can move from engineering to IT project management. I may even be able to remain contracting through my own business that way. That is my plan.

Anyway, I did some good work outside, got a tree stump out, levelled the ground and started getting gravel down. I didn't see D as much as I would have liked. When I came in to play with her, WW started spewing and making sure I had to do other things as she felt it wasn't fair on her.

Did some stuff for D's room, picked up SS16, want to do some of my course now, get my head together. Think I will go for some telephone coaching.

[Surfer]

Woke_Up

Do not engage with her. You are arguing in front of the kids again. STOP. She is pushing your buttons because you are letting her. You will damage yourself, your R and most importantly the kids. Your D is being forced to defend you as you are not drawing boundaries yourself. Is that fair? Get some boundary statements in place. Something like 'this is nonsense, I can't help you with it, I am. Ot here for this any more' ' then exit.

She is manipulating you, the bed, the affection, the 'non Alpha Male' conversation is total gas lighting and spew. She is defining you. YOU define you, not her! Got it? Boundaries. Develop and enforce them. See above.

My W said I we will have the house and you can have a charge on it. Yes of course dear right away dear, when do you want me to move out again, later today? Okay. Shall I make the bed for OM so it's comfy when he gets here. One statement. Foxtrott Oscar. No. See a L. Then do nothing. It's her journey. Her crazy train.

Finally, get out and enjoy your life. Make sure your job is secure and you are secure. That way your kids are. Stop acting like a doormat and grow some again. Everything you engage with her so takes a piece of you. Don't - get out with friends, go for a walk, run. Let her wonder if you are having an affair - don't of course. But do let her wonder. It will do you good for her to see some mystery in you - I.e where is he, who's he with etc.

Surfer.

[sandi2]

Good point. I had thought it was part of the technique to detach without being cold, but

Here's the way I see it. Don't take the abuse with a smile on your face. Don't reward the abuser. Give no indication that abusive behavior is acceptable.

I would speak in a calm, yet serious tone voice.

Your W is manipulating you like crazy. She abuses you and then says ILY.....or initiates sex.....or wants cuddling. And YOU.....you are so mixed up that you think you are in competition with your W's lover. So every time you have sex with her, you want to ring a bell and say you are ahead in the race to win your W, .....who is also your abuser.

I was not clear on that. DR and the 37 rules just said don't tell her ILY and nothing about how to respond. So if when says it, would you advise saying nothing, or making a comment regarding her A being at odds with that statement. She has also been saying it in text messages quite a bit recently.

Well.....if you are going to have sex, cuddle, and all the hugs/kisses, it seems rather pointless to not respond in like manner. Do you see what I mean? The way you act/respond gives a message to her. Whatever you want that message to be, I think it should be consistent ....don't you?

Decide your goals and how you will accomplish them.
Decide your personal boundaries (protecting yourself), based on your values, standards, etc.

[Woke_Up]

So, let's see your initial list of three things and what initial steps you are going to take to start the first one up in January?

Press the forward motion button - even if forward is just baby steps...

Hi Sotto

Thank you for your support. You know, it's crazy how difficult I'm finding it to think of 3 things.

I guess 1. was starting a self defence course. Although not entirely new, I hadn't done it for a couple of years. Had my first session last week, second one tonight, and then I have a 6 hour session on Saturday, covering knife defence and trauma first aid.

2. Bushcraft - I really want to learn some bushcraft skills, especially now we are out in the countryside. I have been doing quite a bit of reading and online researching, but would like to go away on a weekend to learn some skills with likeminded people.

3. Horse riding - D4 rides, so it would be nice to go along with her and give it a go.

That's 3 for now. I'll keep thinking. Time is my enemy with my current job, so I will think of things that I can involve D & SS with rather than just myself - weekends are precious and they grow up so fast

[Woke_Up]

journaling:

Well after thinking about things, my thoughts, thoughts of others here on the forum, I decided I was being too much of a cuck with this whole situation.

By ignoring the fact that WW was continuing her EA, and still effectively being a dutiful & affectionate husband, I was losing my self confidence, and possibly even more of my WW's respect. Can't read minds so I don't know this. That's just how it felt.

So, rightly or wrongly, I did the following:

Looked at her new phone, which wasn't locked. Wasn't bothered about reading anything, or snooping in particular. Just confirmed she was still carrying on & still within the house to try and regain some of my anger at the situation. Maybe anger isn't the right word. Just some sort of energised emotion, which had been lacking in me,.

Marched down to the utility room where she was sat with her phone and a joint. Told her to go outside if she was doing that.

Told her if I caught her doing it again I would block her phone from the WiFi for 24 hours as I wasn't going to pay for her to continue.

Said she should probably sleep somewhere else tonight (she won't)

Said that I wasn't going to let her continuing to treat me like her husband when she wasn't acting like my wife.

WW said she was just trying to find the right time to end things. My reply was that I don't want to know about the right time,I want to know when it's over, and repeated that she couldn't continue to use me as a dutiful husband while behaving like this.

Anyway, thoughts on this, anyone? My aim was just to regain some sort of passion about the sitch as I have slipped into dutiful H limbo. I am also hoping that this will help me in my aim to apply a more tough love approach and a sturdier boundary.

As many have noted, I am not good with my boundaries.

On another note, I am re-reading DR, will review my objectives, and then share them with this forum for some feedback, see what the veteran DB'ers have to say.

[Surfer]

Woke_Up,

Boundaries. These are to prevent harm to you and your D and SS. It is about what you will and will not accept.

Smoking a joint outside - fine (why she is doing this but hey?). You don't want kids growing up around that.

Affair and WiFi - again fine.

Respect in her attitude or words towards you is most important. If she is abusive or disrespectful. Just say, "stop, I am not hear to listen to nonsense anymore", then walk away.

The rest is simple, talk to her like you would a work colleague, neighbour etc. Someone you have no emotional ties to. Act as if where you are not detached fully. But work on detaching. The way to avoid this is to fill your time with other things. It will stop your mind future forecasting which is the seedbed of anxiety and stress. The more you do that is healthy for you (exercise, talking particular people etc) the better. You are getting stronger all the time.

I hope this helps.

Surfer.

[sandi2]

WW said she was just trying to find the right time to end things. My reply was that I don't want to know about the right time,I want to know when it's over, and repeated that she couldn't continue to use me as a dutiful husband while behaving like this.

Much better!

You have drawn a protective line around yourself, and told her you won't be "used". So now, don't worry about what to do to her. Just protect your own feelings, and when she tempt checks or any form of manipulation........you can either repeat how you will not be used as a dutiful H, or walk out of the room......or whatever you need to do to protect your feelings.

You said you needed to be energized and regain passion. When we feel beaten down by another person or situation, it suks the life force from our spirit, self-confidence, self-esteem, self-respect. IMHO, you need to focus on what is best for you. Be your own best friend, instead of trying to be the model, or dutiful H. Whether the M survives or not, YOU need to survive. And you will..........I believe this could be a turning point for you.

[sandi2]

How about an update?