Not sure where I am so no title!

[Coly23]

Previous Thread:

Coffee and spinning


Seasons greatings one and all! I hope you all did something yesterday that gave you some enjoyment.

Sorry long post alert again!

Journaling - Well I have had a busy week. H came over early on Tuesday morning for D's birthday with her presents and to decorate her birthday cake. He then took us out to lunch and helped me decorate the house for D's party. After that not a peep from him. We had arranged for him to come over Christmas Eve for dinner and a sleepover (spare room) and i expected him to drop me a text to confirm arrangements and also ask how D's birthday party went. As you all know D has been grounded in the past due to her parties but I got nothing!!

In the end I texted him on Friday because I wanted to let him know that my Sister's MIL sadly passed away early that miring. He knew her well and he was very sad. Then I got annoyed with him after he didn't respond to my follow up text in which I asked him to let me know what days he was free after Christmas to do family stuff. Eventually he came back and apologised for not responding sooner as he was driving. I said I was looking forward to Christmas Eve and he said he was too but can we not have any major R discussions! I have never done this except for my melt down a few weeks ago so that got my heckles up straight away!

So to cut a long story short on Christmas Eve before he came over we unfortunately had a bit of an argument over text. He said he would be over at 6.00pm when originally he said late afternoon. I was hoping to eat at 6.00pm. I accused him of treating us like friends he is just fitting around his life and that as his family he needed to treat us with a bit more respect. Apparently he said he was wrapping presents and making Christmas crackers to bring over for Christmas Eve and did I think he was just sitting in a pub enjoying himself! I told him as far as I was aware he could have just been sitting in a pub as I don't know what goes on in his new secretive life! I also very un-DBingly told him that we were doing 'all of this' like allowing him to stay over and spend Christmas Eve and morning with us to make it easier for him to come back. I expected spew but all I got from him was okay but lets just have a nice time.

Despite out little text argument we had a fantastic Christmas Eve. H brought wine and breakfast stuff and homemade crackers. We played board games before and after dinner and then watched a Christmas movie. It was very strange when H went to sleep in the spare room and we both felt a bit awkward but it was ok. The next morning I took him in a cup of tea and wished him happy Christmas with a kiss. He then came into my bedroom and stretched out on his side of the bed whilst D opened her stocking presents. After that we went into the living room and D gave out the presents from under the tree. I wasn't expecting much from H but he spent quite a lot of money on both me and D.

After present opening he made us breakfast and we then got ready to go to our respective families. Before that my Mum called to wish me and asked to speak with H as well which was really nice. I asked H if he would drop me off at my Sister's house and he was happy to. I also took the risk of asking if he had time to pop in and say hello to my sister and her family and he said he didn't think he had time but when we got there BIL was in the drive so he felt he should get our and speak to him. He then went in and wished my Sister and her four year old twins who were really happy to see there uncle. It's the first time any of my family have seen or spoken to him since May.

I did also ask if he would like to stay again and he said yes he would. I am seeing very small baby steps. We are all becoming much more comfortable with each o[/s][s][i][/i]ther and I'm not so afraid of his reactions anymore. I know I'm not good at this DB stuff so I await your 2x4s!

Oh and we are all going to the cinema tomorrow, Tuesday, and then having takeout...

[Sotto]

Hi Coly, I'm glad you guys managed to have a reasonably nice Xmas. Do remember that many MLCers do peek out over the holidays and then tend to duck away again once the holidays have passed.

No 2x4 from me - well maybe a small fluffy one. I think in your situation it is best to sit back and let him come to you. Much like sitting quietly when trying not to spook a wild animal. When you see him, you seem to want to tie him in to the next engagement. Can you sit back and let him come to you when he wishes? I think it would be a great scenario if you genuinely had plans sometimes when he wanted to see you...

It isn't a great dynamic if the MLCer can always find you right where they left you. Whilst it may feel less comfortable for you, it is actually better to be moving on independently with your life.

I hope this helps, and do remember not to have any expectations....

Xx

[job]

Coly,

No 2X4's from me because you already know what you did and shouldn't have done. I do want to point out one thing...He told you he didn't want to talk about the relationship and that got your hackles up. You have to understand, he doesn't want to think about the relationship right now. Learn to respect his wishes when he says he doesn't want to do something. This is his journey to take and unfortunately, you weren't invited on it, nor do you want to be on it w/him. This is all about him, not you.

So, here's my advice, keep your expectations to zero. You are expecting him to be the man who lived under the same roof w/you...he's not. He's got issues that he needs to resolve and he can't do that if you are "expecting" him to be a certain way. Learn to accept him for who he is today.

Coly, your biggest enemy right now is fear. You are allowing fear to drive your emotions and you are clutching on to that rope too tightly. Drop the rope a bit. I don't see him going anywhere, but he will get tired of the "expectatios" that you are putting on him to be there as a family member.

Give him some space. How can he miss him wife, family and home if he's there all of the time? You come across as very insecure and needy. You have to find a way to become more self confident, independent and drop the fear of losing him. Just remember, the more you push, the more he'll go the other way.

Find things that you and your daughter can do together this holiday season. Make some new traditions that the two of you can share. Please, please, give your h some space.

[BluWave]

Coly, I am glad you had a nice Christmas! I think job said it perfectly, so I will add a big DITTO to that.

H is still giving you the gift of time; take this gift and use it! Learn to grow from this, and become that strong, confident, and independent woman you want to be. Then, then you can decide if this is the M you want. .... Hmmm, I smell a New Year's Resolution for Coly :-)

Trust me, doing this work on yourself while piecing is much harder!

Blu

[pinn]

Hey Coly,

Glad that your x-mas was decent! Sotto, Job and Blu have given you some great advice... try and follow it. No expectations! Once you can get to that point, you are in good shape.

Happy new year!

[Coly23]

Thanks for your posts everyone.

Sotto, thank you for making the 2x4 fluffy! Yep, I know I am being very needy, but the thing is, H is starting to losen up and relax around me so it seems the more we see each other the better it gets but I take on board what you say about him coming to me. I know it's been said to me quite a few times but I can't stop organising things! It stops me from spinning and at the moment I'm trying to avoid that as much as possible and it's working.

Job, H got my heckles up because I usually avoid having R talks with him especially face to face so I didn't feel he was justified in his request to not have R talks when he came over because I wouldn't do that. I know it's not as long as some but I did go NC for seven weeks and I don't really think I can do that again. Just writing it is making me feel sick and bringing all those emotions back.

Blu, I'm trying really hard to be independent and on the whole I'm not doing a bad job. For example H noticed that a towel rail in the bathroom had come off the wall and brought tools to fix it back on when he came over on Christmas Eve. I didn't ask him to do this but he was suprised to see that I had already attempted, although unsuccessfully, to fix it myself! He tried and couldn't do it either!

Thanks Pinn! Trying to not have expectations but not doing very well!

IDK. I don't force him to do any of these things. He is actually agreeing willingly. When he has stuff on he says no and I don't push him but if he is available he always says yes. We had also agreed to do lots of family stuff around Christmas so maybe I need to wait until after The holiday season to pull back a bit.

Thank you all. I know you are looking out for me and I appreciate it. This is just so hard....

[HaWho]

Coly - while it's great that he's willing to come when invited, I guess my question is: what would he do if you did not initiate contact at all? And what would you do/how would you react?

My guess is he would stumble around in the dark and figure things out. Same as you would do. I think you may both need that.

If I may do so, you perhaps think you're growing closer but until you see what he does when not invited, you don't really know that.

Wishing you all the best in 2017!!

[job]

Coly,

Your h stated that he didn't want to have relationship talks w/you because he doesn't want to get your hopes up. I give the man credit for telling you in advance. Well, you may not think he was justified in stating that to you, but to him, he was giving you a heads up that it was time to spend together and enjoy the holiday...not discuss relationships.

You are going to do what you think is right for you, but right now, I would step back a bit and not invite him to do a lot of things w/you. Yes, you feel so much better when he's right there...but it's the holidays and no one knows if he'll be one of those MLCers that really step back after the holidays. It's not his job to make you happy and tamp down your insecurity at the moment. It's up to you to find ways to tamp down that insecurity and yes, dig deep within you to find that happiness.

I know you want him home and he knows it too. As long as you are accommodating, he's going to have his cake and eat it too. Why would he even consider changing anything in his life if you are going to so willing to pretzel yourself to have him along w/you. I know you both agreed to do family stuff around Christmas, but that doesn't mean a majority of the time. He needs his space, just as you need yours. You need to figure out how to become stronger and less needy.

Dbing is all about you and learning about yourself, how to deal w/what life dishes out and to know when to step back and not be pushy or demanding. It also teaches us to lower our expectations of others (sometimes our expectations are set too high).

I know that I sound harsh, but you need to find ways to deal w/that insecurity and neediness. They aren't appealing. What is appealing is a self-assured, confident, independent person who can be happy w/themselves on their own and not need someone to fill up their self confidence kibble bowl.

Coly, you give great advice to others, it's now time to step outside your comfort zone and practice some of what you've suggested to others. I know you are scared, but Coly, you can do it. I know you can! Have faith in yourself and the man upstairs. Give the wheel back to him allow him to take care and guide your h.

[AndrewP]

Coly, you give great advice to others, it's now time to step outside your comfort zone and practice some of what you've suggested to others. I know you are scared, but Coly, you can do it.

I know you can do it too Coly!

[Sotto]

Hi Coly, I think you have received some good advice and hopefully food for thought.

In your situation, I think it is more important to deal with your own stuff. Why is it I spin when I don't hear from him? Why do I need that contact to soothe me? Why am I not okay alone for now? Why can I not let him be? Why do I need this?

For me, it became important to know that I had 'made it' alone. Many times I found strength in doing nothing. For in doing nothing I was okay alone. If we ultimately didn't make it, I knew I would be okay anyway. I remember thinking - I need to know that I would have been okay alone, or that fear would always be there - even if we reconciled. If that failed, I won't be okay alone, because I didn't make it. From what you post, it doesn't sound as though you feel that confidence in yourself.

He wants space and not to address R things. You pursue him primarily to soothe your own fears. It took me a while to get to a place where I could leave XH be. But what was most important was - I was (and am) okay. And yes he divorced me, but I tried my hardest, and that decision is on him.

So, my main message is - try and worry a little less about the M - and focus more on you. Dig deep and have a look at what fears his abandonment have triggered in you. Have a good think about why you 'need' his attention to manage your fears. I can't recall if you have read Codependent no more - but I found it helpful - she is pretty astute at recognising and setting out those unhealthy behaviours we can adopt...I had many for sure! And (like many of us here) I'm a work in progress...

I do notice benefits in how I rub along with others too. 'Before' I used to fear conflict or negativity and take it all on as being about me. Now I'm much more able to see that maybe someone else is just having a rough day - or dealing with their own stuff...

Best of luck with everything

[Sotto]

Oh, and one more thing I wanted to say...your M has been of a similar length to mine - ie: you have successfully lived the vast majority of your life not married to this man!!

Sometimes we get posters here who are spinning because they have spent the past 25+ years with their spouse - the whole of their adulthood. They are are reeling and wondering just who they are without their spouse. Such a rejection is primal and cuts to the very foundations of your identity.

In a shorter M, that happens - though to a lesser degree - because so much more of your life has been lived independent of the M. Ie: there is something more of 'you - just you' there to 'refind.'

I hope this helps anyway, my lovely xx

[Coly23]

Thank you all for your comments I appreciate your honesty.

I am still so confused. I spent months not saying anything, not having any R talks, having minimal contact to no contact and my sitch was at a standstill. Friends and family encouraged me to talk to H but I refused. Now it seems to be slowly moving I don't want to go back to that time again. There was zero progress and it didn't do my mental health any good.

Also I think there might be some confusion over H's comments about me not having any R talks. I did not initiate nor did I intend to initiate ant R talks with him. That was just a comment he made because I was annoyed about the time he was intending to come over in Xmas eve. It made me annoyed because I have left him alone in his man cave except for one melt down so I did not think he was justified in his comments. It didn't spoil out evening though. In fact we had a great time and the fact that we could both forget about our little argument earlier in the day is a positive step as in the past we probably would have both just sulked!

I'm going to observe what happens after Xmas and see if H is still interested in continuing to see us or if it is just a seasonal thing. He did say that he would like to start up coming over once a week to spend as a family and that happened before Christmas. For me I understood DB'ng was trying different things and observing, adjusting and not continuing to go down cheesless tunnels. If H kept refusing to come and see me that would be a cheesless tunnel and I would have stopped asking. And off course if he is cake eating then I will broach that subject with him at some point.

Thanks once again everyone!

[AndrewP]

Coly23 my dear. How are you doing? It's very frustrating to have things suddenly take a left turn when you start thinking that you are making progress. You are indeed making progress. The Coly23 who wrote these last few posts is a stronger, more confident Coly23 than before.

With a vanisher like what we have it can be quite difficult to know if there is indeed cheese in a particular tunnel or not. The immediate feedback, often times in the form of spew that some other LBS's get does not come our way. It's more like playing a game of BattleShip than finding cheese I think sometimes. I am perhaps a bit "fortunate" in comparison because I do see a sliver of my W's mind (she's having a crappy day today) via her Facebook postings. In your case you have pretty much only your IRL contacts which are far more intense.

Keep the image of a scared squirrel in mind though and also remember what we are told that this is a special, magical time of year. Anything thing that comes about now may collapse into so much pumpkin dust and mouse-poop come the stroke of midnight on December 31st. But, the squirrel knows that you are out there, that you still love and care for him and we can both hope that memory will build over time as he rediscovers himself and loves himself.

Please take care of yourself and your D and best wishes for a wonderful New Years.

[Coly23]

Hey AP, great to hear from you! I am also worried that H will start to pull back after the festive season but I won't know until like you say the stroje of midnight on NYE when everything turns to dust!

However, H did text me yesterday and asked to take myself and D out to lunch on NY day (I promise I did not ask him first!) so maybe that's a positive? IDK, these days i'm afraid to take anything as a positive unless it's an outright apology and H is grovelling to come back. It seems baby steps don't count in the world of MLC!

I am spinning today a bit though AP. I've had an invitation to go to my Sister's for NY Eve but I'm not sure I am up to it. I haven't asked H what he is doing but I don't think it will be a wild night for him otherwise he wouldn't be asking to see us the next day but I really want to be with him on NY Eve. It hurts so much I just want this year to be over with and to just sleep through NY Eve. I think about all the couples making promises to each other at the stroke of midnight and it breaks my heart.

I know I have developed a better relationship with my H than some on this board and I like to think that some of this is due to my DB'ng but nit sure everyone will agree! A couple of months ago H would take hours even days to respond to a text but now he responds soon after. He has become softer in his interactions with me and talks about US and WE. But when I read through the old posts and see the baby steps in their R's and then D in the signature it makes me so sad and want to just give up.

I'm sorry for the down post. I will be ok once NY Eve is out of the way.

Wishing you and everyone on this board a wonderful NY full of hope, love and happiness! X

[job]

Coly,

If your h has asked to spend NY day w/him, then do so. Since he didn't ask you to spend NYE w/him, I would make other plans for that night. He may already have other plans for NYE and that's why he didn't ask you to spend it w/him. I know you want to spend NYE w/him, but he didn't ask you and I wouldn't broach the subject w/him. Go to your sister's and have a good time because you know that you'll be spending the day w/him.

BTW, baby steps do count in the world of MLC, so do moments of clarity...but we have to be careful not to get our hopes up or our expectations too high because the MLC will change up in a minute. Let's see how things go after the holidays and if he keeps asking to take you and your D out, then maybe he's on a roll...but for now...make plans to go to your sister's.

The new year is right around the corner. What are your goals for 2017?

[Coly23]

Thanks Job, I have accepted my Sister's invitation.

I just feel so hurt that he doesn't want to spend it with us. I don't know how to stop feeling like this. i just want to throw in the towel today. I don't want this to be my life anymore I've just got nothing left to give and I'm in danger of jeapardising everything I have built up over these past few months. :0(

[pinn]

Happy new year Coly. There are going to be ups and downs and you have had a lot of nice ups over the past few months. Don't let this thing bring you down. Try and enjoy the night at your sisters.

Try not to read into the fact that he has not asked you to do anything. Who knows whats going on.

On to 2017!

[d_Rose]

Hi Coly,

I can relate to the daily pain of realizing our MLCers do not want to be with us right now. It hurts. No way around it. I am still waiting for that fresh, raw hurt to go away. But at the same time I have gotten used to living with it. The new normal.

Now the challenge is to let ourselves imagine a future with joy and happiness not tied to our H. If they choose to join us, great. This is the step that is hard for me, as right now my vision of a happy future is tied to the outcome of our marriage. I know I will survive regardless, but still need to really internalize and "feel" that I can find peace and joy again regardless of the outcome. I know I can't do that if all my thoughts and energy are focused on him and his actions vs. doing things for myself. It really is a daily struggle to refocus on me vs. what I want him to do. We cannot control the choices they make.

I know our situations are a little different. Maybe easier for me to put up a (very low) wall - all I have to do is think of him sleeping with OW. But our timelines are similar - I know how painful it still is for you. I think it is positive he asked to spend New Years Day with you and D. Enjoy and try not to read too much or too little into it. Try to just "be" in the moment.

Hope you decide to go to your Sister's on NYE - sounds like fun!

[Altair]

Hi Coly,
Picture H feeling overwhelmed by the joy of NYE, and him wanting to hide at home alone in the flat, watching TV. Sounds like he only has so much to give right now.
Do you know if he ever went to an IC?

[AndrewP]

I really want to be with him on NY Eve. It hurts so much I just want this year to be over with and to just sleep through NY Eve. I think about all the couples making promises to each other at the stroke of midnight and it breaks my heart.

I've joked that I'm going to eat a big bag of prunes and let the old year pass out that way

Yep - this is another tough one. This will be the first year ever that I will be alone on NYE. Even last year when I think OM was at least being considered if not an active affair I still got a loving kiss from W at midnight. My 27th from her. I have promised S22/D24 that I will text them after midnight. I need to get a heavy-duty elastic to keep from contacting W. No clue what if any plans she has.

Thank you for the kind wishes and the same back to you and your D.

[Altair]

A.P., perhaps use one of those giant bands they use for yoga/physical therapy. I had one of those break once during an exercise and it slapped me quite hard right in the face.
I, too, will be home (alone) for NYE. Well, my chances of getting killed by a drunk driver are greatly reduced!!

[hawker]

Happy New Year Coly!!!! Let's hope we have a better 2017!!!

[Coly23]

Thank you all fir your comments.

Pinn, Happy New Year to you too! Sometimes I can't see the wood for the trees when there are positives in my sich. D keeps reminding me that we are so much further along than even a month ago. I think I am just tired of not knowing what H is thinking that's what drags me down so badly. Anyway not had an update from you for a while....

Rose, I try so hard to think of life without H and I know myself and D will be just fine, I just don't want to think this is the only option I have to accept. I've accepted my Sister's invitation but I had a huge fight with D as she wants to spend it with her friends. I'm now going to stay sober so I can her pick her up from her friends house. Bleh!

Altair, he is going over to his friends house to spend it with their family. I told him I was hurt that he decided to do this. I know I have fallen if the DB wagon big time but more about that later! As far as I'm aware he hasn't gone to IC and he is not the type to do so either.

AP, I like the prunes idea! I can't imagine how much harder this must be for you and others who have been married for so many years. Sotto made this point a few posts back. You and Altair say you will be alone for NYE but actually I feel that this is what I should be doing too. The only reason why I am going to my Sister's is because D has insisted (part if the fight we had yesterday) but really all I want to do is stick two fingers up to this year so I've nothing to celebrate.

Journaling - me H and D have all had a falling out albeit by text with H. I'm finding I am having less and less patience these days and I think it's because I am just so tired of this all. D has told H she never wants to see him again because he has decided to spend NY with someone else's family. I know she said the out of a bit of teenage selfishness because she wants to be with her friends but feels guilty about leaving me on my own even though I am happy to be alone. She feels that if he was here she wouldn't have to worry about me and that is why I have had to accept my Sister's invitation.

I threw a few truth darts at H yesterday and I don't feel guilty about it. I'm fed up of tiptoeing around him and being so nice and accommodating. D even told me to stop treating him like a princess!

Bttfly was talking about having intentions for 2017 rather that resolutions. I think my intention for 2017 is too stop being so nice!

Anyway, let's see what excitement the NY brings and if H decides to turn up in NY day it will be interesting!

[AndrewP]

Coly23 - Your comment about your D reminded me of something out of my own past that I've not shared here before. Feel free to share this with your D if you like.

My Mother and I were always close. I felt that she was the glue that held our family together. Around the time she turned 60 though she stopped spending time with us, spending time with some friends who she called her "new family" (longer story redacted). I was quite upset about this but never made a fuss and let her live her new life. A few years later she was diagnosed with colon cancer and died a week or so later. My W pushed me quite hard to go and see her on her death-bed but I refused saying that she had cut me out of her life and that if she wanted to talk to me she only had to call and that I felt that "death-bed reconciliations" were too fake.

Some years later when my D24 was perhaps D16 I confronted her once saying that if she kept pushing me away I would let her go. We are still quite close.

After BD1 and before I found out about the affair, W mentioned to me that one thing she was scared of was me abandoning her like I had my mother. I told her that no - my mother had walked away from us and that I had let her go. W got very thoughtful after that.

I think about the parallels with my mother leaving my life and my W leaving quite often and it always makes me sad. In both cases I let them go and still feel that it was the right thing to do. My mother never came back. I promised my W that I would not abandon her - but when does the time come to know that she's indeed gone? I struggle a lot with that especially since she continues to maintain connections to me.

So - what I'm trying to say in my usual long-winded story-telling way is that even though your D is angry at H and even though he has chosen to walk his own path that she should keep a part of her heart ready to accept him back if he does return.

[roist]

I am sorry to read that you had such a tough time for the end of year. Not sure if this is a 2x4 or what but IMO your resentment, frustrationsnd disappointment are all related to your expectations. You want things to go a certain way and when they don't you are upset.

I understand this . I truly do, but it is not helping you. Expect him to be distant.Expect him to not want to be a couple. Expect him to be like this for a long time. If you manage to have low or no expectations of him, you cannot be disappointed by him. So assuming you can achieve this, what are you going to do differently to live your life?

Lashing out at him may feel good but will it help you? Leave him be and let him come to you.

Best wishes

[SBJ]

Expect him to be distant.Expect him to not want to be a couple. Expect him to be like this for a long time. If you manage to have low or no expectations of him, you cannot be disappointed by him. So assuming you can achieve this, what are you going to do differently to live your life?

I for one am sure that we all have higher expectations than our spouses can live up to...maybe that is our problem with the relationship as a whole. We want to be a couple with the person that we said our vows to, but somewhere along the way, their wires got crossed and led to their confusion. I am also trying to keep low to no expectations, but I realize that it is extremely difficult. Seeing posts of our spouses out having a good time w/o us is hard...at least to me, but I am trying to sink it in my head that she is trying to relive her lost youth and find something she feels was missing.

We need to re-find ourselves...the people that we put on hold for our significant others. I saw a quote on New Years Day from Tony Robbins...he said Decide who you will become, what you will give, and how you will live. Gave me some food for thought. I like who I am and what I have been able to achieve, but as with everything else, there is always room for improvement.

God Bless!

[Coly23]

Happy New Year everyone!

Not feeling well today. It should have been my first day back at work but I've caught the lurgy that's been going around my family.

AP, I'm sorry about your relationship with your Mum, that must have been very hard for you and also very courageous of you to share such a painful part of your life with us. It surprises me though that your W was aware of this but still chose to leave.

D apologised to H on NY Eve morning and everything was all ironed out in the end. I think she just gets her knickers in a twist (as do I!) sometimes especially when things aren't working in her favour so she blames everything and everyone else!

Roist, I am finding it hard to keep my expectations in check your are right. I'm not doing so well with this detachment stuff either because basically I realise I don't want to detach or maybe I'm just not ready as yet. No lashing out won't help me but sometimes it gets so overwhelming I can't stop myself. That's why I don't think I am ready to detach.

SBJ, thanks for visiting my thread. It is hard to see that our WS's want a life without. However in my sitch I am slowly starting to find out that my H isn't out having lots of fun as I thought. Apparently he spent NY Eve playing Monopoly with our married friends and their 8 year old son! My 16 year old had a much more rock 'n' roll evening than he did!

So H came over on NY's day and we walked down to the local pub for lunch. He then stayed the night (again in the spare room) and we all had breakfast the next day. He was very helpful around the house.

Still not sure where I am at the moment. We are meeting up in his City for dinner on Saturday so we'll see how that goes....

[BrightFuture]

Hi Coly, thanks for stopping by my thread. I will catch up on yours. From what I gathered so far, you feel yourself in a state of limbo, similar to what I felt myself about 4 years ago, except you have more interactions with you H because of your D16.
Hang in there… Go with the flow for the moment. You can always change your mind, you know… Sorry, I cannot provide more feedback until I read your story.

[AndrewP]

Coly23 - I was thinking about you today as I sat with a bread-stick watching the river (actually a cup of hot cocoa and snow IRL).

Others may not agree and you might not agree either but I think that you and D16 are doing absolutely fabulous. Think about it. You are a great team who have reinforced and strengthened each other. You have stood up for yourselves and found yourselves. As a result (IMO) your H has at least woken up a bit and realized what a fabulous family that he has. He's engaging with you and you are really not making not a lot of demands on him. He gets to come and go, sleeps in a separate room (I know how painful that can be) and is rediscovering you and D16 all over again.

Big thumbs up! Just don't get cocky now though. There's still a long way to go. Hopefully his IC sessions are helping him and perhaps in a few months you two (or you three) might be able to work together on rebuilding the bonds between you all.

Oh - and before job whacks ME with a 2X4 "no expectations".

((((Coly23))))

[Coly23]

Hey AP, thank you so much for your encouragement! I also realise that I may not be the greatest DB'er and I can often hear the tuts of frustration on here when the things I do go against DB principles!

However, it may not be evident but I have learned a lot since being on this forum. I've learned to let things go when in the past I have hung on to disagreements and sulked - for days! I've learned that i look for sympathy in a passive aggressive sort of way and that makes me look weak an whinny. I've learned that I was brought up with parents who are codependent and I recreated that in my own marriage. I think recognising these amongst other things I've learned about myself since BD and avoiding repeating them has helped me to get to this stage with H. I'm by no means saying that I have found the magic bullet to save my marriage but had I not found the tools on here to examine my own personality traits I would be stil making the same mistakes and would have pushed H further away.

AP you are right in saying that myself and D make a great team, the relationship between us is much stronger than it has ever been. It's also great that we can work together to be the lighthouse for H and although there have been few bumps and potholes along the way when one of us has a meltdown we always manage to regroup and carry on. To be honest with you I am surprised at how patient H has been with us!

I know I've got to stop myself sometimes from demanding too much at this stage, it's hard but sometimes I forget we are separated and those expectations creep in again!

Journaling - H suggested going to the cinema again on Saturday for the hundredth time! I know H loves the cinema but I don't think it's a good idea at this stage of the game. The last time we went we met in the car park, sat in silence in the dark for a few hours and then went our separate ways. It was very disappointing! I've suggested to go for dinner instead and he has agreed. My D said the cinema is what kids her age do when they go on a first date!

I'm hoping this cold I have will have gone by Saturday although it has been complicated by a sore ear due to the pressure caused by a short flight I took today. I feel like George Bailey from A Wonderful Life - not my sore ear!!!

Hope everyone is doing okay today!

[Altair]

COly- hi!
He's a man. If he wants to sit in silence next to you in the cinema-- go!
(also he is a british man lol)

[Coly23]

Lol Altair! Let's go a step further, he's breathing that should be enough!

I was reading on an old thread by goodattitudegirl who was trying to reconnect with her XH and it was suggested to her that outings to the cinema should be relegated to friends and couples who are already in a relationship. I can see where they are coming from. When me and H were together we loved going to the cinema. He would often hold my hand or put his arm around me but now it is way to uncomfortable. The last time we went we went he literally didn't know what to do with his hands he was so awkward.

Anyway, still have the lurgy but hoping I will feel better by tomorrow night. I'm looking forward to a Saturday night out!

[Altair]

That's interesting. For me, the cinema is not intimate, but dinner is. so, ok!

[AndrewP]

Hi Coly23! Just popping by as I make my way around.

You'll have to fill us in on how the film was. Enjoy it, laugh if there is something to laugh at, sigh if it is sad. Be present in the moment. I'm glad that you and your H are seeming to be getting to know each other again. You have both changed in this journey, you perhaps more than you realize.

I'm proud of you.

[Coly23]

Journaling - I think my night out with H went well. I was going to get the train to his part of town but he offered to pick me up and put away all the Crimbo decks at the same time. H parked his car outside his flat and then we walked down into town and had some nice Thai food.

During the evening I noticed that H only had one alcoholic drink and when I asked him if he wanted another one he said he couldn't because he was driving me home! No way did I expect him to take me home and I insisted that I could make my own way back so after the restaurant we went to a pub for a few drinks.

We talked about lots of things including work and D and he told me he would like to come with us when D has her interview for college this Saturday. Neither of us actually need to be there as she is going in on her own but I am taking her so strange that he wants to come along too.

PURSUING ALERT!
During our conversation I mentioned to H that I wanted to take D on holiday after her final exams and that I was thinking about my Sister's apartment in Spain. For some reason my mouth wasn't connecting to my brain at the time and I asked if things go ok between us if he would like to come along and he said..... YES!

Anyway, I'm not going to tell D and I'm not building up my hopes too much either. We will still go if he decides he doesn't want to.

After the pub H was not happy about me getting the train home even though I insisted I was a big girl and I could take care of myself and insted suggested I got a taxi. He even insisted on giving me the fare which I refused to take but he wouldn't let me go until I took it. All very strange!

Happy Sunday everyone!

[roist]

Hey Coly.

I believe people should work towards a better M rather than away from a bad one. I should post thatto myself as lately I am not doing so.

Most people focus on what they don't want in their M and don't focus on what they do want. By focusing on what you don't want that gets emphasised and more present. So focusing on improvements is healthier.

That being said ye are not working on improving your M together.Your H has not committed to that yet. So please reread the threads here about pursuit and distancing.

I am glad H is making steps in the right direction. I hope that continues.

Best wishes

[Coly23]

Hi Roist, thank you for your comments.

You are right H hasn't recommitted to the marriage but he has agreed to work on our relationship which I hope in turn will help us to rebuild a better marriage. I've read many piecing posts where both parties have recommitted to the marriage too quickly, with all the expectations that come with that, without first rebuilding their relationship and with not good results which is what I am trying to avoid. It may not be everyone's cup of tea because he hasn't begged to come home etc but I'm not expecting that.

With the distancer and pursuer dynamic I don't think this works in all relationships and I'm sure it's something that we are supposed to avoid with an MLC'er rather than encourage? With my H he seems to mirror my actions. The more I distance he distances so I know this doesn't work for me. I know I ask him to do a lot of things however if he didn't want to do it and kept saying no then I would stop as continuing would be pursuing for certain. However I'm still giving him lots of space which I hope will help. It's all trial and error at the moment but I know for certain that I'm in a much better place than I was a couple of months ago.

I did have a quick catch up on your sitch but will have a proper read shortly.

Hope everyone is doing well....

[roist]

Yes it is about doing what works.

The distancing dynamic is a complicated one. In most cases once the lbs distances the WAS becomes distant.TThe lbs perceives this as not working do pursues again. IMO the lbs often does this too soon and the WAS has not had the time to assimilate that the lbs could be moving away from them. I am not saying that this is the case for you but is something I noticed in newcomers.

I am happy things are improving between you and you are enjoying rebuilding a R. I worry about your expectations still. You interpret all his baby steps as meaning he is walking a separate path but towards reconciliation. Yes it's a possibility but not a fact. I urge you to really work on reducing your expectations. Otherwise they will get the better of you. Plus each time he veers away from those expectations you get upset and let him know. Lately your H has reacted rather well to this guidance but too much pressure will make him bolt.

With my two warnings in mind, maybe you are on the right path. I liked your last reply. It showed reflection, logic and understanding. Keep on going.

Best wishes

[BluWave]

Hello Coly!

I am glad to read that your H is coming around and willing to work on your M. He seems consistent in his actions, which is great.

I can't help but wonder how you feel about not addressing the way he picked up and left with no explanation? That was very hurtful and confusing for you. Is there any part of you that feels as if you are letting him off the hook too easy? He now knows he can leave and just come back. Does he understand the hurt he caused you and D?

I am not suggesting you bring this up now or do anything about it. I am more thinking about your heart and how to honor/protect it, as he is coming back into your life. If this doesn't get addressed, my fear is that your resentment will begin to resurface.

Blu

[Coly23]

Hi Blu, great to hear from you again!

You are right that we need to address his leaving but he told me at NY that he isn't ready to talk about it yet so I guess I have to respect that.

He is coming over more often. For example he asked if he could join me in taking D to her college interview after which we had brunch together. He also asked to come over on Tuesday to go with me to D's information evening at school and then to grab a bite to eat afterwards. I can see a slow change in him but I still don't trust him 100%. Last week he texted me every night because he couldn't come over due to work but I still feel I spin when I don't see or hear from him. I'm trying to give him space and not push him but it is getting harder as my patience is starting to wear thin.

I know it's only been since the start of the new year that he agreed for us to work on our relationship but where I have been working on it since December last year it seems like a lifetime. IDK, I feel so scared all the time that he might be just stringing me along. Time will tell....

[Ginger1]

Why don't you let him initiate and pursue a little?

let him ask you out and make plans the next time. And when he doesn't right away, don't jump on pursuing him right away. It's not so much distancing, but giving him the opportunity to ask, and maybe give you a small glimpse on what his work will be in rebuilding your R.

[BluWave]

I'm trying to give him space and not push him but it is getting harder as my patience is starting to wear thin.

IDK, I feel so scared all the time that he might be just stringing me along. Time will tell....

(((Coly)))

I am concerned for you. Look, I completely get what you are doing and why. I also agree with the DB philosophy and techniques--that is WHY I am here on the boards. However, I don't think (nor do I believe others do) that DB comes at the expense of your emotional well being.

Your patience is wearing thin and you are scared he is stringing you along. Please understand that this is not healthy at all! Relationships, and Ms especially, should be about mutual respect, not about fear. (I am struggling with my own respect issues at the moment, so we all have issues).

I don't want you to follow this program to this extent if it is causing you anxiety and hurting your confidence. I think we (LBS) all get so focused on if and how the S is coming back, that we lose sight of our own needs/wants. That is the opposite of DB--DB is about learning to love the self first, 180, GAL, and DETACH. Then over time, if THEY have changed, we can better assess if our spouse is ready (and worthy) of our M.

I think you should pull back a lot. I think you now see that he is mixed up and does actually want this M to work. That is great, and that is more than most posters are able to get. Now please think about what YOU want and deserve from a partner. Perhaps you should start to require that before he is allowed reentry into the M. There is no rush to do anything at all. But time alone will not heal this. I don't want you to enter an unhealthy dynamic with him--where you have fear and he has the power.

Blu

[Altair]

Hi Coly, just checking in-- for me it is still that pesky weekend! I imagine for you its more busy...

[Rose888]

Coly, I dip in and out of the boards these days, so I might have missed this, but how is your GAL going?

GAL seems to be key for helping people through the impatience.

There seems to be a lot of hope in your situation, but I agree with Ginger that it might be good to give him space to initiate, and I agree with Blu that you need to take the focus off him and put it on you.

[Coly23]

Evening (where I am) all! Thank you for your comments and apologies if I have been awol on my thread. I have been reading and digesting all your comments.

Ginger - the whole pursuing thing just confuses me so much! H is naturally not a pursuer instead he is very lazy when it comes to that but I will try my best to pull back.

Blu - Thank you so much for your post you really understand how I am feeling. You are right in saying that at the moment I have the fear and he has all the power but I realise that this is actually opposite to how it used to be when we were together. I was always so confident that he would never leave me and H always seemed insecure. Maybe this is karma for my over confidence!

Also I have scaled back on being a strict DB'er and that is why I think H has started coming over more. Off course this has come with its own set of problems in that I am finding it hard to manage my own expectations and off course I am extremely impatient. I know I need to pull back but I want to reel him in just enough that he gets used to being around me again. We are getting there I think.

Altair - the weekend is a nightmare for me too! It doesn't matter what I do or how much I GAL I still find myself spinning!

Rose - thanks for visiting! Yes everything you say makes sense. I do need to take the focus off him and on to me. However I feel like I need to get to a certain point before taking the focus off him, but I don't know what that point is. Maybe it's hearing him say he is committed to working on our relationship. I think then I will feel like I can relax . IDK does that sound weird!

Journaling- H came me over today and we went to D's exam info evening at her school. It all seemed so normal and he seems so much more relaxed around me. H has said that he will try and come over more often during the week although this week he is away for work a couple of days. We are going to go out on Friday, just the two of us and he might stay over. I think he is really trying to make the effort.

Hope everyone is good today!

[Rose888]

Rose - thanks for visiting! Yes everything you say makes sense. I do need to take the focus off him and on to me. However I feel like I need to get to a certain point before taking the focus off him, but I don't know what that point is. Maybe it's hearing him say he is committed to working on our relationship. I think then I will feel like I can relax . IDK does that sound weird!

Journaling- H came me over today and we went to D's exam info evening at her school. It all seemed so normal and he seems so much more relaxed around me. H has said that he will try and come over more often during the week although this week he is away for work a couple of days. We are going to go out on Friday, just the two of us and he might stay over. I think he is really trying to make the effort.

Hope everyone is good today!

It sounds counterproductive.

Like saying I need to find an exercise plan I like before I start eating more vegetables.

Do you think you focusing on him so intensely is going to make him recommit?

From where I sit, all it does is keep you from living a full life and keep you from being as strong and emotionally healthy as you could be.

It's harder, not easier, to GAL when you are piecing, because the pull to return to your relationship default is strong. Use this time to develop your GAL muscles and make that a habit.

[Coly23]

Hi Rose, thanks for your post. You are certainly making me think!

No, focusing on H isn't going to make him recommit, your right but I feel like I need to do something because doing nothing would drive me nuts! However, I am starting to feel a little better in myself. I've started exercising more and I've arranged to take D (and maybe H) to my Sister's apartment afte her final exams and that's giving me a focus.

Before H left yesterday he said he would text me about going out on Friday so I am not going to text him first I will wait for him to initiate. I promise!!

[Sotto]

I think there are some positives in your site Coly....and I also think it is important to delve into your need to keep pushing for R because doing nothing would drive you nuts, make you spin..

Ultimately, you have have the opportunity to try again, or you may not - things will unfold as they will. But don't miss the opportunity for your own growth to live a more content and peaceful life going forwards - with or without your H in the picture.

Good for you with letting your H initiate - that's progress. And maybe some goals to leave him be for periods of time - ie: a week or whatever - would be good too

[Coly23]

Thanks Sotto. It is s a real battle between heart and head at the moment!
I saw this quote today that summed it up for me:

'When something feels so right but
brings you nothing but pain it's a
battle between your heart and your
mind. You know damn well your
not going to get what you deserve
outa this but you cannot seem to
give it up. With love and hate and
respect it's a heartbreaking war. At
some point though you have to
choose your own sanity pick up
your heart off the floor and move
on with your life.'

Have a lovely weekend everyone.....

[Rose888]

Do you have any fun plans for the weekend?

The kids and I saw Hidden Figures last night. I highly recommend it.

[AndrewP]

Coly - I hope you are doing well today. You've been a bit quieter lately. I hope that means that you are out and about and living a great life.

You are in a tough spot right now where what is going on is "neither fish nor fowl". Keep your eyes clear and focused forward my friend.

[Coly23]

Hey Rose, thanks for stopping by. No real plans for the weekend but just been shopping with D spending the last of her birthday/Christmas money and then doing chores. I've managed to arrange for a Sisters evening next Saturday which I'm really looking forward too. Not much money to go out as it's the end of the month but hopefully next month I can do a few more things. How about you?

Hey Andrew, your right I have been a bit quiet lately. I just don't feel that there is anything worth posting at the moment and I'm tired as well. I think Christmas/NY was so emotionally exhausting I've come to a bit of a standstill. Also if I wrote on here everything I've been up to I might get enough 2x4's to build a whole village of cabins! I'm not sure I can face that at the moment! How are you doing today?

[roist]

The more open you are here, the better people can help. Those 2x4s are for our own good. Cherish them as guides instead of avoiding them.

It is tough knowing what to do and I imagine with your H rekindling friendship is really hard to know how to be. Be the best you possible and the rest will fall into place.

Best wishes

[Rose888]

The sisters evening sounds like fun. My sister lives far away, so I don't see her often, but we always have a great time when we do get together.

The pattern this weekend seems to be busy mornings and quite afternoons and evenings. I'm trying to make progress on a big organizing project I want to tackle this winter.

[job]

Coly,

If we didn't care about and your situation, we wouldn't hand out 2x4's when we see something that needs your attention. Many of us have been down the yellow brick path and can see what may be happening in the other posters' postings. The poster receiving the 2x4's may be too close to their own situation to see what is actually going on. If you aren't going to openly post what's happening in your situation, then how can we help you?

Bottom line, read the postings and take from them what you can use. We may not always like what we read about our situation, but the advice, suggestions and 2x4's will actually help you along your journey when the time is right. We do care about each and every poster that comes here.

[Coly23]

Thank you Job. Please be assured that I appreciate all the advice on here. I know you all have my best interests at heart and you speak from a place of experience. I am gratefull to you all for your support. Xx

[AndrewP]

Coly23 - I hope you and D16 are doing well. This time of the year can be difficult coming out of the Christmas and into the gloom of the new year.

Stay strong. Be the best You that you can be.

[Coly23]

Hey AP, great to hear from you!

I'm okay thanks just in a bit of a weird place. H is coming over twice a week now but I'm struggling to keep my expectations in check. We had a huge argument on Sunday. It started with me texting him to ask if he wanted to go for a walk as it was a nice day and he said he had stuff to do so I called him. Turns out I'm just not giving him enough space! He had told me on the Friday before that he would text me on Monday to let me know his availability for that week so I should not have contacted him on Sunday. Whatever! Also, he said that I have to accept the worst case scenario is that he isn't coming back ever. Anyway I got him to commit to working on the marriage in the end which is even weirder but I'm not sure what that means. I guess actions speak louder than words!

I think why I feel weird is because before he came over on Tuesday I couldn't care less if he cancelled. Also I've not felt like hugging him as much when he leaves. Maybe this is the start of detachment?

How are you doing AP?

[Altair]

Hi Coly, Hi AP!
I have no news (...good news?)
Just doing lots of career development.
Coly, seems like after the shock of it all, your anger might be starting to surface. I know mine creeps up now, I'm working on it. Hope you are doing well. I'm in an airport en route back home (to my one side of the bed and jellybeans) feeling pretty good.
As per the advice, i have not followed up on the meeting which would be this weekend? Next week? If I don't hear from him i will snap my bands and let it ride.
Hugs Coly!

[AndrewP]

I guess actions speak louder than words!
<snip>
How are you doing AP?

Coly23 - Actions are very much important but as job has written to both of us, expectations need to be kept low. I have no answers for you only sympathy for you and admiration of your strength to keep going.

For me? I'm doing OK. I still haven't figured out how to cook rice although S22 has given me some very explicit instructions that are different than my prior attempts. Chicken a'la Coly et AP over rice is probably a very nice dish. Perhaps this weekend I will give it a try.

[Coly23]

Hey Altair, hope you had a good trip home? I chuckled at your comment about getting bsck to your side of the bed! I too still sleep on my side although I have taken H's pillows and replaced them with cushions!

Well done on not contacting H. If my memory serves me well he suggested dinner, is that right? If so then yes, wait for him to contact you. I think I need to go back to using my rubber band too!

Hey AP! Your right my expectayptions are sky high at the moment. I'm also failing on the ' beginners mind' from DR. I keep comparing how he was when we first started dating and it's obviously not the same now.

So to cooking rice. I too hate cooking rice but only because I end up cooking way too much and I'm far too impatient (no way I hear you say!) to wait for it to cook. I absolutely love the microwave rice pouches! Two minutes is all it takes. If you have it in your shops try one, you will never go back to boiling rice again!

Journaling: I've got my four sisters coming over tonight for dinner. Can't wait! I'm cooking up a chilli with rice and soft tacos. I even made an orange curd yesterday. Like lemon curd but with Seville oranges. Never done that in my life but it was so easy. I'm going to make a merangue nest and fill it with whipped cream mixed with the orange curd and pop some chunks of chocolate cake into it.

So I've started to take on board the advice that you have all given which is to wait for H to come to me and not keep setting things up. He seems to have invited himself to D's parent's evening which has annoyed me slightly but I won't say anything as I don't want to confuse things. He said he is committed to working on things so now I will leave him to do that at his own pace as he said I am pushing him and trying to control things as usual. Is that the right thing to do? I'm such a planner so this is a 180 for me. I feel the need to draw up a Gant chart with milestones!

Happy weekend everyone!

[pinn]

So I've started to take on board the advice that you have all given which is to wait for H to come to me and not keep setting things up. He seems to have invited himself to D's parent's evening which has annoyed me slightly but I won't say anything as I don't want to confuse things. He said he is committed to working on things so now I will leave him to do that at his own pace as he said I am pushing him and trying to control things as usual. Is that the right thing to do? I'm such a planner so this is a 180 for me.

Hey Coly, Yes I think it is the right thing to do! You need to stop pushing for the sake of your marriage. Try and stick with this 180 for a month or two and see what happens. Have a good weekend!

[Coly23]

Hey Pinn, thanks for dropping by. How are you?

I know I need to back off but it's so hard and I think it's my confidence that stops me. He did say that I should think of the worst case scenario in that he won't ever be back which upset me quite a bit. Why agree to commit and then throw that in! It's so negative but I guess that's par for the course!

Have a great weekend!

[Rose888]

Hey Pinn, thanks for dropping by. How are you?

I know I need to back off but it's so hard and I think it's my confidence that stops me. He did say that I should think of the worst case scenario in that he won't ever be back which upset me quite a bit. Why agree to commit and then throw that in! It's so negative but I guess that's par for the course!

Have a great weekend!

He might not want to lead you on. I heard something similar ("I might end up leaving.")

You are hurting your chances. He's conflicted and unsure. He's trying to explore reconciliation, but when he makes steps towards you, you assume he's decided, and then you get frustrated when he takes a pause or even takes a step back.

Let him spend time with you when he wants to and not when he doesn't. Don't assume he's made a decision. Decisions are rarely improved by being rushed or forced.

I see a lot of potential in your situation but you have got to give him space.

Enjoy your night with your sisters! What else do you have going for GAL?

[pinn]

I know I need to back off but it's so hard and I think it's my confidence that stops me.

Hey Col,

I think this is important. You need to develop that confidence independent of your H. I know it is hard! As you know, I have been down a similar path though I didn't pursue quiet as hard as you but I made mistakes here and there. Try to develop that confidence.

If you are interested in some entertaining drama (entertaining to an outsider, def not for me!), go look at the last few pages of my thread. Things got a bit crazy last weekend!

[Coly23]

Rose, thanks for dropping by. It's amazing what others can see that you can't when you are in the thick of it! Yes, I see that's exactly what is happening because of my imaptience and frustration. I guess I just feel so hurt all the time that when I get even the smallest crumb I think I have the whole loaf! It's my pesky expectations again!!

Hey Pinn, I'm working hard on building my confidence in all parts of my life and I see I am improving in that area in my career it's just my personal life that lacks it. I've had a read up if your sitch and wow I can't believe the felon is back causing trouble! I bet your W is kicking herself for getting involved with him!

Journaling - Saturday night my my sisters was fantastic! We had far too much to eat and drink and I didn't get to bed until 2.00am! I realise that without my H i still have so many people who love me and want to spend time with me even if he doesn't.

I've started to think of freshening up the house ready for the spring. Maybe freshen up the paintwork and make if a space for me and D with a few girly things as I always avoided buying anything too feminine as I didn't think it would be fare on H.

I can't believe it's going to Monday already!!

[ForGump]

Coly, catching up after being absent from your thread for a while (I don't hang out in the MLC neighborhood, at least til now)...

But wow look at you! Your H is coming over twice a week? Whoa!!!

But also tsk tsk on rice. Come on, it's the easiest thing to cook! Throw water & rice together and wait 20 minutes!

[Rose888]

So glad you had a good time on Sat!

I think freshening up the house is a great idea.

[Coly23]

Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

Gump, great to hear from you! Twenty minutes as opposed to two minutes in the microwave! Come on, you know I have noooo patience at all!!

Journaling: so things seem to be going okay with H. He is coming over consistently twice a week and in between that I am not contacting him unless he contacts me first which he is doing now. I realise I can be quite controlling and it's my insecurity and lack of confidence which makes me feel that way but I'm working on those areas. I've also learned my lesson that pushing him to do what I want only makes him angry so that's when I get the 'I'm not coming back' speech.

The only trouble though is for some reason, before he comes over, I start to get very anxious, sometimes angry as well. I can feel myself spiralling into a ball of emotions but when he is here all those bad emotions go away and I usually have a nice time. I'm also getting used to him going back to his flat at the end of the night and I don't have that panicky feeling anymore although I'd love for him to stay....

As for GAL. I'm working out like mad at the moment. Not only do I go to the gym three times a week I am doing an exercise DVD at home three times a week too. It's helping me to sleep and eat better and I don't find myself sitting around in the evening ruminating because I don't have time to. D even said I look fab and is very jealous of my figure at the moment!

IDK, what is going go happen with me and H. Myself and D are making our home as comfortable as possible and making his time with us enjoyable. I'm hoping that he will miss us when he goes back to his flat but I realise that he is still not himself so it may be some time. But I know I am luckier than most on here in that I can have a good relationship with H even though it's not the type I want.

I know I've got to move my focus on to my D for the next few months as she has important exams coming up. It will be interesting to see if he makes more of an effort when I pull back a bit... Patience, patience....

[pinn]

Great post Coly... keep it up!

[job]

Keep up the good work!

[Coly23]

Thank you Pinn and Job.

Journaling - felt a pang of sadness today knowing I won't hear/see H until Wednesday. I'm sure I'll be okay though. Just got to take one day at a time I know that now but I can't imagine my H ever telling me he loves me again that's what makes me so sad...

Happy Monday everyone....

[Coly23]

Morning everyone! I hope Valentine's Day wasn't too difficult for you all. For me it brings back memories of H not getting me anything for the first time since we got together and us having a really big fight during which he again told me he didn't love me anymore....

Update: H has been over twice a week now for a few weeks and I think it's going okay. I don't initiate contact anymore and he texts me every Monday to let me know when he is available to come over. It usually is dependent on work so I'm not too worried about him taking the lead on that.

I guess I'm still unsure about what is going on in my sitch. He seems happy to come over but I don't get anything more than that. A few weeks ago he couldn't come over at all one week and because I was annoyed I texted him and asked if that meant he will ignore me and he texted back one word 'no' and then texted me every night he was away.

However from our blow out back in January when I asked him to go for a walk on Sunday he still maintains he might not come back. What should I be doing now? should I wait for him to take the next step or can I suggest adding another night on? Is this someone who, as Rose I think said, is exploring reconciliation or just keeping me close as a friend? I don't know I'm all over the place still!

In other news: I'm still exercising loads and I'm starting to see the results so I'm excited about that. D is doing well and is currently studying for final exams. She has also started sending out feelers to local businesses to see if they have any part-time jobs. She still wants a dog so has decided to save up for one!

[job]

Coly,

There are three types of mlcers:

1. Drop-in. This is the mlcer that continues to come to the home, most likely on a daily basis or every couple of days. They have dinner, sit around w/the children and just visit like old times.

2. Droplet. This is the mlcer who comes to home or visits w/you periodically. They may come by every couple of weeks or months. They don't make a habit of being at your residence all of the time like drop-in does.

3. Dropout. This is the mlcer who walks out the door and you never hear from him or see him again for a very, very long time. No contact at all. They ride off into the sunset never to be seen or heard from again by you or family.

Coly, your h sounds like the droplet. What do you think?

I wouldn't text him about adding another night to his visits. If you are happy w/him coming to "visit" periodically, then I would go w/the flow for a while. I, personally, think that he's looking at you as a friend at the moment. I don't think reconciling is on his radar at the moment. He's comfortable w/the way things are going at the moment and you aren't rocking his boat. After all, why should he think about reconciling when he can come visit w/you and then live his life the way he wants the rest of the week w/o you being in his presence and wanting his attention?

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't wait on him. If you have something to do when he wants to come over, reschedule his visit, don't change your plans and don't offer up why you are busy. Say something like "H, that is not a good day/night. I have something else to do that day, let's think about rescheduling for another day" and let him mull that over. He needs to see that you aren't sitting there waiting on him to call, text or come over. You've got a life to live...live it.

Just my two cents.

[Coly23]

Hi Job, thanks so much for your response.

From your descriptions of the different types of MLCers I think my H is between a drop-in and droplet. He is consistently coming over twice a week for dinner and brings food and wine. At the end of January he said he would try to come more often but this hasn't happened as yet and I dont know if I should remind him.

I do make sure that if I am not available I give him an alternative and so far so good. I guess I am trying to build a friendship with him for now but it's hard to remain patient. Maybe I've answered my own question!

[job]

Coly,

Can you be patient a while longer? I wouldn't say anything and/or remind him about what he said about coming over more often. After all, we are only in the second full week of February. Let it play out for a bit. Being impatient, anxious and fearful will play against what you desire to have happen. Patience is a trait that we all have had to learn and the old saying "good things come to those who wait" does really happen. So, sit quietly, be patient a while longer and allow things to be revealed and happen in their own time.

Many would give their right arms to have their spouses coming by, bringing food and wine. Be grateful that he's popping in for now. You aren't operating on your time frame now...but his and that time frame is very, very slow. Don't rush the process, give him the space and time to figure things out. Okay?

[Coly23]

Yes I think I can be patient a bit longer Job!

I think I'm spinning again because he is due go come over tonight. I don't know why but the day before and the day of his visits are the worst until he gets here.

I am very lucky that he is a nice MLCer and comes here often but I want more and it's so difficult trying to keep my expectations in check. So far I have learned not to initiate contact and let him come to me which was really tough to master (as you all know!) so it seems like I hardly have any contact with him now. Maybe that's what causes the spinning, not seeing him very often and then trying to 'act as if' everything is normal... How do I get over this feeling everything he is due to come over....?

[AndrewP]

Coly - I have no good advice for you other than to let you know that what you are feeling is perfectly normal and understandable.

((Coly))

You're doing great sweetie.

[job]

Coly,

I agree w/Andrew when he says that what you are feeling is perfectly normal. We all get nervous and anxious when we are about to have contact w/the MLCers. Why? Because we don't know what they are going to say or do or possibly give us, i.e., separation/divorce papers. The problem is "fear", fear of the unknown and not knowing what the future holds for us and them.

Breathe! You are mastering the NC fairly well. Now, you need to master the no expectations and learning to accept him for who he is right here, right now. The man you knew has been replaced w/his mirror image. Will he be totally different from the man you loved and married? Time will tell.

You will need to decide what is better for you, i.e., a little contact or possibly little or none. You are the only one that can decide whether it's worth is to get spun up before his visits or not. I know what you are going thru because I went thru it too. I finally decided for my own sanity to go NC and not deal w/him face to face because of what I would go thru.

Coly, I want you to know that you are doing great and you will get thru this. Be patient w/yourself and recognize that your feelings and emotions are getting spun up just thinking about him coming over...why are you allowing his visits to do this to you? What are you afraid of? Can you identify why you get spun up? Are you afraid that you will say or do something that will help him decide to stay away?

[Coly23]

Job, AP - thank you for your posts.

AP- great to hear from you and thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I don't feel like I am doing very well at the moment but it's comforting to know that these feelings I am having are normal! How are you anyway AP?

Job - I think the spinning is made up of two cups of sadness, one cup of fear and a whole bucket full of resentment! I have thought of pulling the plug on his visits again. I did this last year and then went dark for seven weeks. Then I started meeting him for coffee, had the big blow out with him after prom dress shopping and told him he does nothing for me and D and that's when he asked if we would like to start up the family time again which went from one to two days a week. I feel if I pull it again I will just seem inconsistent and flaky especially as I asked if we could work towards reconciliation. It will jut look like I am throwing my toys out of the pram because he isn't doing what I want him to. It's the whole control thing and it is a 180 for me to stop demanding action from him.

You are right though, I do need to just accept where he is at the moment and it hasn't been that long since we started it up again. I have seen some improvements in our relationship already so I do need to replace that bucket full of resentment with a bucket full of patience! Thanks so much Job, you really make me think!

Journaling - so H came over for dinner yesterday. He seemed very relaxed at first getting things ready for us to eat. But I did notice he was spending a lot of time in the hallway and I think he was looking at MY post! Job said that MLCers are nosey! He seemed a bit on edge and became very quiet as the evening wore on. Myself and D were having a laugh about some stuff on her iPad so we took no notice of his sullen mood! Anyway, he is coming over again on Friday so let's see how he is then....

[Sotto]

Hi Coly, I wouldn't pull the plug on the visits - and I wouldn't depend on them happening or happening at the current level or whatever.

What you may want to do is sometimes prioritise your own things and for his visits not always happen on those days - ie: not putting that time with him first always, but accepting invites on some of that time. Perhaps leaving him to spend a little time with D if that's what they so choose.

It doesn't need to be a black and white choice - pull or don't pull - I think subtle withdrawal and coming forward can be really useful. I say this with a caveat. I certainly think it would be fine to pull completely if there were a significant boundary issue - but otherwise, I would do as I have suggested above and prioritise living and rebuilding your life - but allowing him a little time in it as you presently do..

Hope this helps Coly - and always remember these two useful questions - is this working for me? What do I need to do to look after myself in this situation.

Xx

[Coly23]

Hey Sotto, that really makes sense about things not always having to be black and white or all or nothing. I'm going to try and arrange some nights out and ask H to come over and spend time with D on his own. I might even ask if he could give me a lift. Or would that be pushing it!!! :0)

For sure if H was seeing someone else that would be my boundary or if he wanted to push for D, again that would be my boundary. I don't think I could stomach doing family time with him if he did.

Feeling a bit better now after talking it through with you guys. Thank you so much!

[ForGump]

Coly

Heard this on the radio tonight and when I learned they were Brits, I thought about you and wondered how you're doing.

"Oh, simple thing, where have you gone?
I'm getting old, and I need something to rely on
So tell me when you're gonna let me in
I'm getting tired, and I need somewhere to begin"

Greetings from more than six time zones away

[Coly23]

Ahh, FG I love that song!

Thanks for checking in. I've been reading your thread bit not commenting as I see you have plenty of good advice. I'm sorry though that the D wheels are in motion, I know how hard it is to have to split up your life. Just take care of yourself and your kiddos and everything else will just happen. I'm hoping you will find some relief when you are removed from the drama.

Journaling - had a bit of a breakdown at work yesterday. As you know I've been spinning a bit the last few days and my emotions were very close to the surface. It took just one of my colleagues to ask how it was going and the flood gates opened! She was encouraging me to find my confidence and anger and kick H to the curb as she feels he is disrespecting me . IDK, sometimes that's exactly what I want to do and other times I want to be patient.

H did come over last night but my heart wasn't in it. I was ok but I wasn't overly jolly and accommodating as I have tried to be in the past. I think H is holding back having any emotional connection to me and that's making it hard to know how to act around him. I did find myself looking at him and thinking that I'm not sure about him anymore.....

[ForGump]

Got another one for you, many years old by now, but heard it on the radio last night and it just felt so real to me right now:

And if you want it
Come and get it
Crying out loud

The love that I was
Giving you was
Never in doubt

Let go your heart
Let go your head
And feel it now

Let go your heart
Let go your head
And feel it now

Yes, by another Brit ...

[roist]

I have read several times that anger can be a good thing to improve a R. Do not avoid being angry. I think the key is how that anger is channeled and released. Use it to motivate you and direct you, but do not let it control you or your behavior.

Just dropping by as you have not posted in a while. I hope that means you are no longer spinning. Let us know how you are when you get a chance.

Best wishes

[Ginger1]

H did come over last night but my heart wasn't in it. I was ok but I wasn't overly jolly and accommodating as I have tried to be in the past. I think H is holding back having any emotional connection to me and that's making it hard to know how to act around him. I did find myself looking at him and thinking that I'm not sure about him anymore.....

Why would you act overly jolly and accommodating? That could come off kind insincere and fake. What kind of connection could happen without sincerity?

If you are not truly feeling up to his company and feel like you have to act a certain way, maybe you could say "I'm not feeling up to it tonight"

Often times when we fake it, people can see right through it.

[Coly23]

Roist, Ginger, FG, thank you so much for dropping in.

I've not been posting much because I really don't know what to say or think any anymore. My emotions are still all very the place although not as bad as they have been I do find myself spinning quite often. However Ive been reading all your threads but not commenting much as I really don't have any wise words at the moment.

Riost - I really wouldn't know how to channel my anger and that is why I suppress it a lot. When I was young I had quite a bad temper although a lot of it was borne out of frustration being the middle child of a large family I was left out a lot. During my late teens I learned how to control my temper although every now and again when I become frustrated it does rear its to ugly head but otherwise I keep it bay. To me anger brings back memories of me losing my temper and I just don't want to go there. I know once I lose it, it will be ugly!

Ginger, I realise how fake I have been acting but this whole situation is fake to me. How do I act around my own husband who doesn't live with me anymore? DB says don't do R talk, don't talk too much, don't ask too many questions, be upbeat when they are around. It's exhausting to try to find the real me in amongst all those different faces I have to wear!

When H came over on Wednesday I really wasn't in the mood as I was a bit under the weather but it seemed the quieter I was the more upbeat H became! Over compensating? Today before he came over I decided to think of it as him just coming home from work rather than him visiting us and it worked to help me relax and both me and D noticed how very relaxed H was tonight. You are right though he can probably sense me over acting!

Journaling - so H is still coming over twice a week. The only communication we have is when he tells me his availability for that week or when he wants to know what food we want to order in.

Last week H came over and stayed the night with my D as I had to go away for work. He was really poorly to the point that my D called me the next morning to say that he could hardly stand and she was frightened he was going to collapse. I called him straight away and he did sound quite bad with cold and flu but he stayed and slept in my bed for the rest of the day rather than going back to his flat.

I'm still doing my exercise at least 5 times a week and really enjoying it and seeing and feeling the difference to! I got ID when I bought a bottle of wine today that made me smile!

I may have mentioned before but I've taken all my wedding pictures down and just left one picture of the three of us from our honeymoon. I noticed the last few times that H has been over that he stares at that picture every now and again and he does it quite openly. I asked my D if maybe that picture annoys him or if he is reminiscing or If he is thinking how much slimmer he looked! I don't know what is going through his head and may never!

FG, just read your signature. So sorry about being D now... :0(

[job]

Coly,

Come here and talk when you need to. If you are just journaling your thoughts/feelings, then tell us and we won't make as many comments unless you want them. You need a safe place to journal and this is the place

Yes, they can sense our every mood. They know us quite well and can tell when something isn't right w/us. Their radar is extra sensitive during MLC. I think you handled the visit quite well when you talked yourself into thinking he was just coming home from work.

As for being sick, they tend to pick up every bug around during MLC. I'm sorry he wasn't feeling well, but he wants to be the tough man and not have others pampering him at the moment. He thinks he's a tough dude.

As for the photo and looking at it, he's thinking about that time and remembers that it was a really fun time. If you have more photos of you and your family on trips, think about putting a few more out around your place.

Keep up the good work. Come here if you need to talk.

[Altair]

Hi Coly, just stopping in to say hello. I understand your exhaustion surrounding the no R talk as well. It is counter-intuitive to me, but I'm doing it as well. keep up the good exercise work!

[Coly23]

Hey Job and Altair, thank you for stopping by.

Job, you are right this is the best and safest place to journal my thoughts and I understand that to do this should be cathartic but sometimes I find it all so painful. I still feel so hurt by what H has done and I can't seem to get past that. I am also grateful for all your comments so please don't stop.

Interesting you should say that they seem to get sick more easily as H has had a couple of really bad bouts of flu since the beginning of the year and I've only had sniffles here and there that didn't amount to much. I did think I was gong to get H's flu the other day but it only lasted a day and then disappeared, phew!

About the photographs, there is another photo of the three of us that I can sneak out under the radar. I don't want to go too over the top though just in case it looks like a shrine to H! Do you think he might see it as pressure seeing photos of us as a family? My D says I shouldn't worry as he doesnt live here anymore so doesn't get a say in what we do.

Altair - yep, I am soo exhausted right now. I seem to have taken one step forward and three steps back with my emotions. Maybe because it's coming up to the one year mark? Exercise is going great and it helps because it's an hour of the day when I don't think of the sitch.

I must admit that Job is spot on when she says there is nothing you can do or say to change their minds and that they have to go through this journey. I get that now and that's what makes it so d&mn hard to deal with. It's definitely like the mountain analogy. Can't get around it, can't get over it so somehow I've got to get through it. However I've been thinking I need to use dynamite to blast my way through but that just isn't effective at all and makes him stand even stronger. I guess i just wait for the rocks to fall away little by little until I see a glimmer of the other side...

Happy Sunday everyone!

[Sotto]

Hi Coly, I think your daughter is spot on in her comment that this is your home and you can do whatever you like. So if it works for you to pop a further photo out, go for it.

Suiting myself is one of the big things I have learned in this process. Doing what works for me. I spent a long time trying to bring to the table what I thought others wanted to see, now I just try and bring myself and let myself be seen..

I understand what you say about the dynamite. I think we have all felt that way - impatience and desperate for some kind of resolution - certainty. However the more we push for that, the more likely things will go in a direction we don't want - for the MLCer doesn't respond well to pressure..

Good for you with the activity. I do think it's a bonus that your H visits regularly. However, the challenge that brings is for you to stay centred and move forward with your own life too. So do keep making plans for yourself, and get out and meet new people too - it does help bring a sense of balance and a feeling of 'I'll be okay either way here, because I have my own life now too...'

Anyway, you're doing just fine Coly....xx

[job]

Coly,

Your daughter is absolutely correct...your home is now the home that you share w/your daughter. Your h hasn't lived there for quite a while and if you want to put out some new photos, then do so and don't worry about how he feels about it. This is your safe haven. If you want to redecorate, paint, whatever...it is now up to you and your daughter to make those decisions.

MLCers do not respond well to pressure. They can kick and scream or they can run for the hills, but pressure doesn't work w/them. Yes, we become very impatient w/them because we are looking for any sign of progress. Progress is very slow as the damage that was done to them emotionally was a very long time ago and that pain has been a part of them for a very, very long time and it's not going to go away w/a snap of the finger. That's why it is so very important to go on w/your life, live it to the fullest because that takes the pressure off of them to be something that they can't be right now to you and your daughter. Also, living your life...it takes your focus off of him as well.

Coly, you are doing great...keep posting and don't be afraid to say how you feel. We all have traveled that path and some are still right where you are. Healing takes time.

[Coly23]

Hey Sotto, Job, thank you so much for posting and for your encouragement.

I'm not doing so well today. H texted this evening to say he can come over on Thursday this week but I'm not sure if I want to see him. It all feels so wrong. We have no contact from him outside of him coming over in the week. That's it nothing else. It feels as if it's his duty and he doesn't need to do anymore than that. I feel stuck I don't know what to do anymore. I think i want to let go....

[Ginger1]

Hey Sotto, Job, thank you so much for posting and for your encouragement.

I'm not doing so well today. H texted this evening to say he can come over on Thursday this week but I'm not sure if I want to see him. It all feels so wrong. We have no contact from him outside of him coming over in the week. That's it nothing else. It feels as if it's his duty and he doesn't need to do anymore than that. I feel stuck I don't know what to do anymore. I think i want to let go....

I am sorry you are having a rough time. Why is it he comes over twice a week to your house for scheduled visits?

Maybe it is time to let go. Doing what you are doing right now is not making you feel good. Why do these visits if they made you feel sad? If he wants to see D, he can do it outside of the home.

Remember, letting doesn't mean giving up. It just means you need to let him go and any expectations. He needs to miss you. You don't want to be "forcing" him to stay or work on things. You want him to do it on his own will. You deserve that.\

Take care

[Coly23]

Thank you Ginger. I thought I could handle it, I thought it would be good to keep that connection going but it doesn't feel good. It isn't meeting my needs and I feel like I am being short changed.

I don't get excited to see him anymore although it's nice once he is here but when he gets ready to leave it feels like BD all over again and I can't keep putting myself through it. Your right D can make her own arrangements to see him. I don't need to be involved anymore.

I don't really care anymore if he doesn't miss me that's his right. I've even booked for me and D to go to afternoon tea on Mother's Day on our own when the old Coly would have asked him to come along or waited for him to ask me what we were doing. I dont care anymore, I really don't. I'm too tired and I've spent too much of my time and emotions on someone who doesn't respect me.

How should I tell him that I don't want to see him for family time seeing as we aren't a family anymore...?

[Sotto]

Hi Coly, sorry you're having a rough time and if you don't want to see him on Thursday I think you have a couple of choices.

Firstly, you could just let him know Thursday doesn't work for you this week as you have plans...and just buy yourself a little time...there's no rush to make a decision about whether or not you want to end the arrangement.

Secondly, you could let him know that the visits aren't really working for you. And perhaps he can make other arrangements to see D if he wants to. No more than that needed IMHO.

I understand it must be difficult to be in his company given all circumstances..

Take care Coly :)x

[HaWho]

Coly - I am sorry you are having a rough go of it. It's certainly understandable.

The feelings you describe when he leaves? I have felt those, too. I still have a lot of triggers. To this day, whenever I hear my h rattle his keys it brings me back to his heavy duty replay running days.

It has taken me a long time to realize that he himself is a trigger, too.

Just slow down and give yourself 24 hours to think about how to proceed. Do what is best for you. Just remember that if he visits your daughter at home make sure you clear your history on your devices, and all that. They do get crafty about making up an excuse to use the computer for a supposed alternative reason. And meanwhile they snoop at your history, books you've ordered, articles you've visited, etc. (Remember devices are synched.)

The feelings you have are real. Accept them, try to get in the moment and understand them better. Then, be true to you. We all support you.

[Coly23]

Sotto, HaWho, thank you so much for your posts.

Sorry about yesterday, I felt like my emotions were spinning out of control with so many thoughts and fears running through my head. All unfounded obviously!

HaWho, all my devices have passwords on them and he has never asked to use any of them so far. I also I didn't go back to him till today about Friday so it did help to wait before I responded. Yesterday I was ready to tell him I'm throwing in the towel and to never contact me again!

Sotto, it is very difficult when he arrives and when he is about to leave but when he is here it's like the old H. I sometimes have to remind myself that I can't touch him or ask questions about what he is doing etc.

I don't know what to think really. I told H we weren't available on Thursday and he asked if we were still okay for Friday as he usually comes over Wednesdays and Friday's. I told him the truth which was that D was seeing friends on Friday so wouldn't be around and said it was up to him if he still wanted to come over. I said this as I was sure he wouldn't come over because D would be absent but he said he would still come. He called my bluff - blegh! I'm so confused....

[job]

Coly,

There is no need to apologize for the way you were feeling yesterday. We all have gone through it and some are still going through it. It's okay and you need to feel those emotions and then let them go. Each time you do this, you grow a little bit.

When you talk to your h, do you ever say something like, "h, how did you day go?" or "How did your week go?". Sometimes we have to open the door just a wee bit to get them talking and when they do begin to talk, listen very closely because you'll find out about what they've been doing. You just have to find the right key to open that door just a wee bit. Think of this in another way. When you meet someone for the very first time, you open up the conversation highway just a bit and allow the other person to feel comfortable enough to share. This is what you have to do w/your h. Listen, listen and just ask a few questions that don't center on the relationship but on something that might be of interest to him, i.e., like music, movie, hobby or someone you saw. See how that works. Don't give up on this...practice makes perfect.

Hang in there!

[SBJ]

Colt, there must have been something in the water yesterday. I also had one of those days and even vented to the W when she pushed the D buttons one too many times. I guess the waiting to respond thing really is a good idea.

[job]

Coly,

Please start a new thread and link your threads together.

Thanks!

[AndrewP]

Hi Coly23! Just posting here before your new thread starts. If I could be so bold you may want to consider that you "can" know where you are. If you look down you will see that you are standing on your own two feet in your own shoes (I still recommend a sparkly mani-pedi). You and your D are doing great and you WILL get through this. I know that my own D has been a great support to me and your's sounds at least as awesome as mine.