Cabin in the woods

[Altair]

Hugs to AP.
I think your logic-brain is impeding your growth. I may be guilty of the same thing, so maybe I am projecting.
Allow me to appeal to your logical brain:
The LB knows that while our stories our different on this site, there are patterns that cannot be waved away. Predictable patterns of human behavior that we all love to claim our case is different. Our S is different than that S in that story. But yet, too much is similar. So, on that, no, a drunken snapchat won't make your W come home/not come home, but that isn't the point. The point is, I think, is for you to alter your mindset because it isn't helping your growth as a person.
One thing I'm hearing from you is that you've got this wonderful set up: nice home, money, loving family, friends, you. And that her sitch now is dark, lonely, coatless, grim, and not half as nice as what you have to offer. And, that she's not going to find a better deal and the fact she hasn't proves you are the best deal.

This is highly likely to be TRUE. On the logical level. If she leaves you, she'll be a sad, old, lonely woman with a bad rep in the small town (I will also mindread for a wee bit and guess that OM got really scared off when she actually left you!!) with less money, crap life, etc. etc.

But you can't cling to this. Why? Because she has (for now, maybe ever) made this choice, however inconceivable it is to you. Why would she choose that over what you have to offer, you say? Well, there's the rub. We don't know, can't know, must move on to live our own lives as we can. I understand! H has chosen a crappy place alone, the guy who loved the companionship of marriage, loved spending lots of time with me, I could go on and on. The question is the same: how could he choose that over ME? Well, again, it's what he chose. In his case perhaps his fantasy is a better life, a pixie-dream-perfect girl, maybe your W has a fantasy life, maybe they are so freaking depressed they stare at the wall all day like JOB said. We don't know. But I really think this line of thinking is damaging you.
GAL [censored]! Life [censored]! Getting censored on this site [censored]!
Tango classes are probably dumb! But you've GOT to get yourself through the winter in one piece (I can't even imagine the cold and darkness..)
My advice: get a hottub! Get rid of all of her stuff and put in storage bins. Change the locks, change everything. Make the house so that if you brought someone over they would have no idea W existed. Just do it for now, doesn't have to be permanent. You have this life with a hole in it, and you are waiting for her to come back and fill it. NO! Close up your hole, your life, make it complete, make it you, for your sanity's sake. That does not negate standing or being a lighthouse. This has been said like 10,000 times on this board the MLCer can smell the changes. That's not why you are doing it, but either way, should she return or not, it's about your abode, your environs, and closing the hole.

[CaliGuy]

She looked relieved when I said that if she wasn't sure that she was never coming back that I wasn't in any rush to split assets etc.

Do you know why? MLCrs HATE pressure .... nothing makes them turn tail and go squirrel faster than 'pressure'. You basically gave her the "Take as long as you need" card here ... not good/bad, but this is why she looked relieved because she felt she needs to add this to the "Things I must do now" list .... its one thing off her plate hence the relief.

#3

Re-reading that it doesn't say that she will stay out there and lost for 3 years - she could but that's not what he wrote I believe.

What I wrote was just what I wrote ... and still holds true that you really have to not trust much of what they say in that time line provided its true MLC. "Believe none of what they say and 1/2 of what they do" actually works both ways .. while they are in replay/wayward and while they are experiencing a touch n go or trying to reconnect.
I do know of a man who survived MLC with his wife. she left for a bit and came back not fully baked, as I hoped my story would play out. He shared that it was a full 6 years till he actually seen his wife back, he never thought he would ever wait 6 years but he managed somehow to do it. Like GB said .. its not a 'snap out of it' kind of wakening .. its gradual and many of the changes/progress you will never even see, it gradually happens.

Let me ask you this ... would you want her to come home tomorrow not baked, not healthy and drag you through h@ll for another 18-24 months and rinse/repeat what you are going through now .... or would you rather stay apart where you both might actually heal and try to re-enter into a relationship where you are both stronger, wiser and healthy? Give that some thought and think the big picture here ... I get that the season is upon us and it makes what you are going through extremely hard and depressing.

I will pass to you something I have learned, not only through my own sitch but the extensive reading I have done with others. I have been trying to show you this all takes time .... Lets say its a 5k marathon, you can not run this at the pace of the 40 yard dash, not physically nor mentally ... because once those 40 yards is up and you actually see how much further you need to go you and most people would quit. It takes time my friend, but its a wonderful chance to rediscover yourself, become stronger because as you put it WHEN she comes back you will need to be stronger. I have not seen many cases where a MLCr came back to someone who did nothing, sat there and simply waited for them to come back. They do usually leave, and for them to come back they will want to know it can be better and more amazing than what it was.

Be better and more amazing.

[CaliGuy]

Ok ... I am not going to quote your post word for word, like myself you brain dum and its lentghy ... but also a healty way to get things out in a safe spot where people 'get' excactly what you are going through.

First things first .. the drinking, hey .. I can pound a few with the best of them, but this opens the door for me to do things I would resist doing sober. If you are going to drink to excess where you do not remember SnapChatting a Christmas card pic ... may be best to turn the phone off, put it where you do not think about doind such things ... btw this is just your scared little boy that lives insied of you trying to reach out and get a reaction from your W ... see it for what it is and learn from this.

#2:

If only W would actually come out and say what it is that she wants.

She can't .... understand she is in crisis and she has no clue what it is she wants, only that she has this pain along with these urges and has decided now is her time, her time to selfishly pursue these regardless of the damage.

[CaliGuy]

So read the last part first .. talk about a tragic copy/paste job!!

[Surfer]

Andy,

Hope you are okay. Even if you feel you are not, you are, because you will be! I promise you!

People talk about detaching. It's a stock phrase that makes sense. But someone posted about the WS being in a coma; I think that is very grounding for me, and you - to get your head around the sitch.

Love the fact you smashed the wine etc. We all do that. When you feel more in control you do it less. It is a normal thing, predominantly male IMHO. The ladies will too but I don't know why men do this a lot. I did, still am, but more in control, it's slowing as I feel happier.

It takes time to get to a point when you feel more in control, when you do, you just feel happier. I know I have reached that because is got an endorphin rush on a 3.5k run. It was massive. One that was unexpected but I nearly cried through joy, relief, happiness etc. Never been into drugs but my word, if you could bottle it....id never take it. Far too fantastic.

So my point is this. This is hard, hard sh!t mate. You will feel up, down, all over. But it will go. Get out there. Meet other ladies, as friends only is my view. I think it will help. Not done it, with full confidence, yet but I bet it beats the alternative.

I have something planned for Monday. Excited. I won't be at all looking for a R, but it will tickle my soul as female company for the last few years has just been dirty, heavy spew. Horrific.

Keep doing what you are doing. You are doing great.

Also get a bit drunk over Christmas - in a relax way (not loose control). Give yourself a break. Feel happy or remose. So what. Just don't develop a habit. Stay, long term in control. I know you are.

Living the same dream chap. Just a few steps ahead and I assure you, you WILL be totally happy again.

Don't fear the W. Love AP. You are clearly a totally great guy that many girls would spchew their arm off for. Stop beefing yourself up. "Many arm around your neck in that bear hug get a grip way fella!"

You are smashing this. Very proud of you!

Surfer.

[AndrewP]

Altair - Thanks for stopping by. I think we were perhaps twins - born a decade apart and to different mothers. Knowing that I am W's best choice is a coping mechanism that Jack_Three_Beans was kind enough to share with me. It's what he himself believed and it helped him make it through. I try not to dwell on the details but slip sometimes and then come here and write long boring posts about it. I think that the motivation for the SnapChat was to share my pain - irresponsible and cruel perhaps. I have come to realize that nothing I say or do will make her come home. She has to decide that for herself and then I have to decide if I want her to. Jack suggested this tool to me in a conversation about one of my original reasons for "standing" - Pride. One good thing that it did for me at that point in my journey is that it made OM irrelevant. I no longer would need to think of comparing myself to a slimmer, richer (and quite a bit older) d@uchebag - er "man". I could just look in the mirror at myself.

I actually have started having a bubble-bath on Sundays - very relaxing. I have an old cast iron tub that holds the heat quite nicely. The house is largely emptied of W's things. There's a few family pictures around and our wedding picture on my desk and in the dining room but that's about it. Pretty much everything else was boxed up and put in the front porch out of my sight for her to come and get some time ago. It is indeed "my" home now. It was tough to do and I couldn't do a lot at any one time - W used to get quite upset whenever I touched "her" stuff so I had to overcome that as well.

I like to think (other than the last couple of days) that I'm doing rather well. I have a fairly full life doing things I enjoy, I have good friends. I suspected that when I posted a request to not focus on GAL activities that it would be taken as that I don't believe in that. I was essentially looking for a hug more than a kick in the @ss being told that if only I was "busy" and "active" and surrounded myself with people that I wouldn't be feeling sorry for myself.

I think you are right in repeating that a MLCr can "smell" changes. I know that my W brought up a number of small things that I hadn't thought she would care about. This is one of the few times that I hope that she's not reading here too and knows what a wreck I've been for the last 36 hours. I know that I need to put thoughts of W aside which had been getting easier. One of the unanswered questions that I have is whether my journey has any effect on her's. The information appears to be contradictory. On one hand I'm told that looking safe / desiring her to come back will keep her out there longer. On the other hand I read how a MLCer will suddenly "wake up" if their spouse gives up / moves on. On the third hand I am also told that I can't influence her at all except to scare her.

The shortest day / longest night is next week. After that the sun will be hidden fairly often by the regular storms we get through into early March. Seasonal depression usually hits me around the second week of February usually when we would be planning our trip to the Caribbean. This year I'll be planning a trip to see D24 and her H in Virginia.

CaliGuy - Thank you yet again for taking the time to post such a thoughtful even if badly pasted note

Your comment about pressure/no pressure actually makes a huge amount of sense. W always hated being pressured into anything and this got a "lot" worse when the MLC thing hit. Anything else is mind-reading on my part.

Let me ask you this ... would you want her to come home tomorrow not baked, not healthy and drag you through hell for another 18-24 months and rinse/repeat what you are going through now .... or would you rather stay apart where you both might actually heal and try to re-enter into a relationship where you are both stronger, wiser and healthy?

You know, I honestly don't know my "real" answer to that. The logical, smart answer is to pick the healthy / stronger option. On the other side of this as you know yourself all too well is that this is very tiring and as a LBS we get desperate to have things come to an end. If you had told me in March that if I just waited 3 years and then maybe, just maybe a healthy whole W would be interested in coming back to me I would have run, not walked to file the D papers myself.

The time factor in itself is a lot more scary to me and probably a lot of people - more than any weird activities or possible OM. I know that for most newcomers it is mentioned but downplayed a bit. When this started SIL1 asked me to promise to wait a full year and at the time I thought that there was no way that it would drag on nearly that long.

btw this is just your scared little boy that lives insied of you trying to reach out and get a reaction from your W ... see it for what it is and learn from this

I've met him quite a number of times. He used to sit in the corner and cry "please stop hurting me". He doesn't come out too often these days. There is also a very angry man inside me who wants to lash out who I keep locked in a very secure part of the cellar.

One of the things that helps me to keep "standing" is compassion for W and the pain she's going through. I saw it clearly in the eyes of the woman who I turned my back on on move-out day and in the few weeks prior from when I gave her my letter begging her to reconcile. I see that pain at times in what she posts to Facebook and very much saw it again when we had coffee. I know and she knows that I can't fix her but if I can stick it out then I can be a safe place for her to rest and heal from her own battles. For that I need to be strong and whole in myself.

[AndrewP]

Surfer - thank you so much for the visit and kind words.

Get out there. Meet other ladies, as friends only is my view. I think it will help. Not done it, with full confidence, yet but I bet it beats the alternative.

I'm being careful about this myself. I know that I'm still quite vulnerable.

Also get a bit drunk over Christmas - in a relax way (not loose control). Give yourself a break. Feel happy or remose. So what. Just don't develop a habit. Stay, long term in control. I know you are.

I have some time planned with my brothers, their wives and my tiny nephew. S22 still remembers Dad getting somewhat sloshed most Saturdays. He's going to see the new, improved Dad who can have a beer and then stop.

I know I have reached that because is got an endorphin rush on a 3.5k run. It was massive. One that was unexpected but I nearly cried through joy, relief, happiness etc. Never been into drugs but my word, if you could bottle it....id never take it. Far too fantastic.

It is indeed. I've not done that myself but I remember getting a major award as a teen. Having hundreds of people making a fuss over you for your achievements is quite a rush. I regularly get complimented for my work in my current role and while it's not the same sort of high, it makes me feel really good.

You are clearly a totally great guy that many girls would spchew their arm off for.

I may ask you for their contact information if this doesn't work out

Thanks again - I feel the man-hug and it feels great.

[job]

Andrew,

MLCers have a very keen sense of knowing when we are pulling away and doing something w/our lives. It may be the tone of your voice, your body language or their driving by the residence and in some cases, when they step through the door, they'll notice changes immediately. Changes things up in your home is a step in the right direction. Doing this gives you something to do and you can actually call it your home. I know you like to have a few things around that remind you of happier times w/your wife...but for now...keep doing what you are doing to change up your home.

As for they waking up after you've dropped the rope. They don't wake up suddenly. It is a very gradual process, i.e., just as it was for them to go into MLC. When they are snapped out of their crisis for whatever reason, there is a strong possibility that at some later time they will re-enter MLC and pick up where they left off and the clock starts ticking and the second time around is a bit worse for them, as well as the LBS. The LBS becomes devastated as they have put a lot of hope and expectations into their waking up and wanting to return home (not fully baked).

When the LBS moves forward w/his/her life, begins to live again, be happy and rediscovers the person that they truly are, that is when the MLCer will become curious. Why? Because the LBS is no longer holding the rope and trying to get them back. They feel safer in stepping over the threshold and reaching out to be friends. If you remember, you and your wife started out as friends and that's where you will begin again when the time is right and the MLC oven bell dings that she's just about done. The old marriage is gone and a new one will take place, if both parties are in agreement. But...remember...any changes that you've made along your journey must become a permanent part of your life. For your MLCer will be watching and waiting to see if you revert back to the "old" Andrew. Both of you will have changed and it is important to keep those changes going and not fall back into the old marital routines, etc.

So, for now...she's in the oven baking. It's going to take some time before the oven bell dings. While she's baking up, you continue to move forward. Enjoy the time you spend w/family and friends, especially during the holidays. Maybe you might like to throw a little dinner party or just a "snack" party and invite some family/friends over...that would be great. Nothing says that your home has to become a silent tomb for. Andrew, life is far too short to allow it to pass you buy. This is the time for you to rediscover the man you were prior to marrying your wife.

You've got this! One step at a time.

[Coly23]

Sending you hugs (((AP))). You never fail to amaze me in that all through this crisis and the spinning you experience every now and again you have always remained understanding and respectful of your W's journey.

I think it takes a very strong person to do this and if you sometimes fall off the path you are only human so don't beat yourself up about it. I myself have stayed well clear of alcohol on the whole and the few times I have indulged since BD I have surprisingly managed to stop myself from drunk texting H and instead sobbed like a baby on any available shoulder. Hey, you do want you can to get through it!

Keep snapping that elastic band AP!

[AndrewP]

job - Thank you for taking the time and writing that out. You've written pretty much all of that to me at one time or another in different pieces. Seeing it all put together, explaining the "system" though makes it a whole lot better and helps it make sense. I would almost suggest that this get added to one of the "sticky" threads but perhaps I am unique in being confused about the "why" and "how" of all of this. I've never been a good one for just following instructions "because" - I have many witnesses to that. I always need to know the "why". It's one of my frustrations with this forum where people will often say "do this", "do that", "don't do that" but without context that I can understand or relate to.

I'm honestly not sure how much W has noticed of my changes. I think from other things you've written that she is expecting me to still be sitting in the same house in stasis while she's been playing with the fairies. It's been frustrating in some ways that she hasn't crossed the threshold since July 22nd and seen the clean, tidy house with her stuff carefully stacked up for her. Frustrating in the "Look at me! I'm a great guy that you are losing!" way and in the "Can you please take this crap away so that I can be free of the drag of it in my life" way. Not that it causes me any day-to-day issue, just that if this split becomes permanent it would be one less thing for me to worry about. I do though know that she is keeping a very careful eye on me, much closer it feels now that it appears that OM is at least temporarily out of the picture. I saw an article a few days ago where it was suggested that this is the time of year for many relationships to end. I'd always been curious on how OM would have gotten on with W's family or her with his. Now perhaps we'll never know.

job - I'm sure we'll correspond before Christmas but I would like to wish you and your family Peace, Love and Joy during this Season and hope that you will be able to take some time to smell your own roses and see what a truly wonderful world it is out there rather than the gloom that sometimes seems to be all to pervasive here. Sending you a great big hug my dear friend (((((job))))) My own plans over the "holidays" are pretty low key. I am having dinner with my brothers and their wives next Thursday and hope to spend some time with S22. Most of my friends IRL live a bit of distance from me and will be wrapped up in their own things. While I'm quite friendly with many of the people in the Village and would enjoy entertaining I still would feel awkward inviting them over. I believe that quite a few don't even know that W and I are separated.


Coly23 - Thanks for the visit. You know it's funny that you mention me being understanding and respectful. I see so many other couples sniping and complaining about each other and not respecting each other to their faces and wonder how could they possibly do that to another person, much less someone that they love. For all her faults - and both W and I have lots - she is a kind, loving person with a good heart who I like and admire. If I didn't respect her, I wouldn't have gone through this for her and us. Perhaps it's cruel of me to think this, but perhaps her time with OM let her know what the rest of the world is like.

I'm looking forward to reading on your thread how your party goes tonight - it perhaps has already started given the time-difference. I'm sure you'll look smashing in that new dress. I wish I could see it. Hugs right back to you my dear (((((Coly23)))))

Journaling
I had a bit of struggle to get home last night through the weather. Pre-BD I perhaps would have just camped out in a coffee shop until later knowing that W would be taking care of things at home but pushed through - because there is no-one else even though the cats would have survived a missed meal. The roads were a real mess with heavily drifted snow and it took me about 3 1/2 hours to get home instead of the usual 2 1/2. Visibility was generally pretty good though. Once there the snow-blower did fairly short work of the 18" of snow in the driveway. I managed to find my recycling bins under the snow but the plow had knocked the can down into the yard under the apple tree. The lid for the can can't be found. Perhaps a mission for the weekend combing through the snow looking for it.

For those like me who put a certain amount stock in "signs" etc, the apple that I wrote about recently is no longer "hanging on" in the tree. The missing apple was included as part of my SnapChat vignette last night. Not sure what W thought of that when she saw it.

Cats got fed, my lunch was made and dishes done up without incident. This morning another 4" or 5" of snow in the driveway to be cleared out plus the expected drift at the end where the plow pushed it. I felt a bit bad because on my way out I saw W's boss over at the store shoveling by hand. He gave me a cheery wave as I drove by though. I wonder if he'll take me up on my offer of parking in my driveway now that the streets aren't as easy to park on. I was tempted to go and get W's heavy winter coats to have him give her, but no - she's got a key. A good friend was leaning on me to deliver them to her to get "brownie points" and couldn't understand how the usual very accommodating AndrewP was saying "She's got her own d@mned key - she can get them herself".

I've moved another stage in the cycling that I've been doing. I'm into the sadness stage now. I think I went through a lot of the fuel I had stacked up after meeting W for coffee. Today I was muttering to myself "it would so simple for her to just come home" - yes - I know nothing is simple any more. There's a lot more of "winter" to go through with the wood pile being depleted. I sort of expect some contact through Christmas. I wasn't able to check the mail yesterday and do wonder if she'll give me a card in return for the one I left for her on Sunday. The thoughts of putting an end to this in the New Year are back but not as strong as before. I have a lot of hard thinking to do - so much reasonable logic says to not bother any more. But I'm not always reasonable.

S22 was supposed to contact me on Monday to tell me when he was wanting to come home for Christmas. No word on Monday, no response to my text on Thursday or this morning nor to the voice-mail I left him a short while ago. Sigh. Again - it would have been so simple in the past but the past is far away. I'm only slightly tempted to contact W and get his plans from her but <SNAP> there are good odds that she hasn't given S22 her own plans. Ideally I'd like to pick S22 up tonight which I said in my voice-mail but feel that's unlikely. Ideally I'd also like to have W waiting for us at home with a warm hug, a big smile and a friendly ear to listen to the stories of our adventures. That certainly isn't going to happen.