Lost in the woods - Camp 2

[Rose888]

I'm with Ginger (shocking, I know).

You've said that you want to be stronger in your next relationship, whether with your wife or someone else. Why not start now? A great place to start is by not having a calendar that is wide open for someone else to control.

[MoveFrwd]

Hey Andrew -
I think all in all you did....OK. The things Im pointing out arent intended as 2x4s or to point out all of your problems. My intent is to try to help you to reframe your thoughts a little bit.

As Don, Rose, and Ginger are saying, your words and tone come off as being perfectly happy being a Plan B. I guess if thats OK with you, then fine. The trouble is that nobody ever chooses Plan B if it's always available. Its like that restaurant thats really close but you dont really like. Even if someplace you want to go is full, youre always going to be looking for a better place rather than 'settling' and going back to that Plan B. You arent going to want to go to that restaurant again until it becomes a BETTER restaurant and then it becomes a Plan A destination.

Being available to meet for 2 hours on a weekday during working hours the day after she contacted you, coupled with the following quotes show that you are willing to do anything for her. It's very strange to me that you would take your ring off and then say things like "The future is in your hands." Why are you voluntarily giving away all of your agency?

I did tell her that the future was in her hands and that I would abide by her choices.

I told her that there was no line of replacements.

I told her that my social calendar was pretty open

You keep telling us that you have accepted that things will work out how they will; that you will be OK with being divorced. Im going to call BS on that. The way you worded this, it sounds like a man stuck in 'the waiting place'.

You can get so confused
that you'll start in to race
down long wiggled roads at a break-necking pace
and grind on for miles cross weirdish wild space,
headed, I fear, toward a most useless place.
The Waiting Place...

...for people just waiting.
Waiting for a train to go
or a bus to come, or a plane to go
or the mail to come, or the rain to go
or the phone to ring, or the snow to snow
or the waiting around for a Yes or No
or waiting for their hair to grow.
Everyone is just waiting.

Waiting for the fish to bite
or waiting for the wind to fly a kite
or waiting around for Friday night
or waiting, perhaps, for their Uncle Jake
or a pot to boil, or a Better Break
or a string of pearls, or a pair of pants
or a wig with curls, or Another Chance.
Everyone is just waiting.

Stop waiting, Andrew. Be your own Plan A.

[AndrewP]

Thanks everyone.

darknes - I quite liked the Dr. Seuss quote which is new to me what book is it from? I'm a big fan of Theodor Geisel as well. Fox in Socks is a particular favourite although not particularly thought-provoking.

It's unfortunate here that I at least find it tough to give the full depth of context and nuance involved in a complex situation. I've gotten into some rather severe battles here trying to go into details and those wounds have not healed so I won't dive into doing that again.

Waiting / Standing / Moving - all just words that describe only part of a life lived reasonably well. I do feel that I am indeed doing reasonably well all things considered. If you are a masochist and go back and re-read all of my bajillion threads (which I know you have darknes - we've sparred many times) you can see that I've always been concerned with W's mental health. From the poor window I've had to observe her from I have had a lot of concerns about her. Meeting her in person appeared to confirm that unless she's a consummate con artist. There was a lot in our talk that I did not share - too much noise and too much for well-meaning people to pull apart word by word, over-analyze and criticize, just like there's a lot going on in my life that I no longer share here.

The woman I met yesterday afternoon was completely terrified and depressed and appeared determined "to do the right thing" and (perhaps) felt alone in this world and unloved. The woman I left knew that she was loved and that there was someone who cared deeply for her that would continue to love her no matter what. I like to think that she had a visit with the man she fell in love with all those years ago. Thinking of her as someone who is ill I will continue to treat her gently. I'm far more worried about her than I am about me.

We'll see how it goes. I'm going to follow job's excellent advice and leave her alone and not do things that would cause her stress such as blocking her from my social media, getting a girlfriend etc. Rose keeps telling me that I'm unattractive anyway and others here have called me unlovable and someone who is doomed to be forever alone. If she calls again I will indeed answer. Am I standing still by the phone waiting? No - I am continuing to live my life just like I was 48 hours before.

[Ginger1]

Rose keeps telling me that I'm unattractive anyway and others here have called me unlovable and someone who is doomed to be forever alone.

I seriously hope this was a joke and you really don't believe this. Because then it what me and rose said was completely pulled out of context. It was meant to help and not hurt. We do not benefit from hurting anyone one here. It's getting you to see things that can be perceived in a certain way that may not be true.

Sigh. I am persistent because I want to help.

But FOR REAL, I will back away.

[AndrewP]

Ginger - These aren't recent references and no I don't believe them to be true but they were indeed delivered with strength and conviction (except in part from Rose who later apologized) by visitors to my threads including vets. At the time they knocked me on my @ss rather thoroughly.

I now read all comments made through a mental filter and rather than "fight back", just walk away when I feel it appropriate but that was impossible for me to do when I was more vulnerable.

[Rose888]

Rose keeps telling me that I'm unattractive anyway and others here have called me unlovable and someone who is doomed to be forever alone.

I seriously hope this was a joke and you really don't believe this. Because then it what me and rose said was completely pulled out of context. It was meant to help and not hurt. We do not benefit from hurting anyone one here. It's getting you to see things that can be perceived in a certain way that may not be true.

Sigh. I am persistent because I want to help.

But FOR REAL, I will back away.

For the record.

I never said that Andrew was unattractive. I can't tell if he's joking or just misread in the heat of the moment and persists in believing the misreading.

There was one time when several male posters were doing some metaphorical chest thumping and I commented that I found that unattractive.

And I have spoken of behavior (begging, pleading, saying you will wait as long as it takes) as being unattractive.

I really should just stay off this thread.

[AndrewP]

I can't tell if he's joking or just misread in the heat of the moment and persists in believing the misreading.

The "winking" emoticon was intended to be "hey I'm joking" - but that's been missed many times before.

I think we're getting waaay off topic here and diving yet again far too far into the weeds of a single line in a post that was indeed meant as a joke and has little or nothing to do with the context of the original post.

Sigh - where is doodler when I need someone who gets my jokes .....

At least some people laughed at my "what's brown and sticky" joke ....

[MoveFrwd]

darknes - I quite liked the Dr. Seuss quote which is new to me what book is it from?

It's from "Oh, The Places Youll Go"

From the poor window I've had to observe her from I have had a lot of concerns about her.

I think this is what everyone is saying. You seem to be metaphorically staring through that window. At some point, you need to ACTUALLY not care what W is doing - step away from the window. Right now, Im hearing the words, but it doesnt actually seem like it's true.

And yes, it's OK to be concerned. I remain concerned for my ex, and we've been divorced for some time now. Im still highly skeptical that there is long term happiness in that relationship, but, that doesnt really impact me one way or another at the moment.

The woman I left knew that she was loved and that there was someone who cared deeply for her that would continue to love her no matter what.

This is ok, I guess. But as I tried to say earlier (maybe not so clearly?) is that I dont think this helps you get towards your goal of reconciling.

not do things that would cause her stress such as blocking her from my social media

I know you arent going to listen or do this, and thats fine. Ill drop it. But the unfriending her isnt to punish her. It's for you. You get so wrapped up in who likes what and who watches what and who isnt doing what, that it's not healthy for you. You may be worried about W, but everyone here is worried about YOU.

I guess my question is, you took your ring off, so you must be feeling some kind of break in your relationship. That seems like a big step for you in your evolution towards an independent AndrewP. It's incredibly bizarre to me that you are remaining SnapChat friends but youre not wearing your wedding ring anymore. I may be completely wrong, but to me, it feels like you took your ring off because she did, but you dont want to unfriend her so that you can keep that little bit of a window into her goings-on. Again, just my opinion. Ill leave it at that.

getting a girlfriend

I wholeheartedly disagree with this advice as well. You are in no position to be getting a girlfriend. I think the bigger picture wasnt that you get a girlfriend, exactly, it's that you shouldnt make it so crystal clear to your W that you arent even considering or investigating that possibility. I think saying things like "right now, that isnt my focus" is a lot better than "theres nobody out there interested in me."

over-analyze and criticize

I do apologize if you feel over-analyzed and criticized. I know Im not good at patting people on the back for jobs well done off the screen, so it's just as difficult for me on here. Sometimes, we just want to help so much that Im sure it can sometimes feel overbearing to the recipient.


Keep on, keeping on AP. We are all rooting for you, even if we dont always know how to express it so clearly.

[AndrewP]

darknes - Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful response. I appreciate it.

I actually don't have any good answers to your questions about rings / social media. Sorry. Words don't cover the complex feelings involved. I think I'm in a reasonably healthy place at the moment though.

I did rewrite about 4 times some responses to the concerns that people raised about a single sentence that was perhaps over-analyzed and does not represent the possibly 3 sentences of conversation out of 2 hours.
We did talk about me moving on to a new R and she said that "she wouldn't blame me". I told her that there was no line of replacements.
I don't really have much to say here other than that W was left with the knowledge that while I wasn't actively looking for someone new that the possibility that someone new could show up was there. If something were to happen at some time with some person who isn't W, I wanted it to not be a shock to her that I hadn't stood holding the door open. Again, I don't want to get into digging into this too much. It's taken a huge amount of space ever since I mentioned that a pretty girl who sold me roses was kind to me with me then being whacked repeatedly with 2X4s for considering the possibilities on this forum. It's going to be a long dark winter for me and the cats though and I fully expect to continue to build a good life for myself alone. I tend to use self-deprecating humour hence the "no line of replacements". There is no purpose in telling her about all the people that have assured me that I'll find someone new and who have offered to help expedite that process.

[Altair]

Hi A.P.,
Sounds like you are doing the best you can. Take care of yourself as it gets colder and darker... Holy S it's already December!!!