So, I was actually last on here a few years ago with the standard XW with affairs, stolen money, lies, abuse of children - I did not save my marriage, but through the friends and advice on here, I saved myself!
I am not married now, but in a 2.5 year relationship that seems to have somehow followed the WAW syndrome.
Originally, I met SO and we went on a date, but I decided I wasn't quite ready to date yet; we continued to communicate and really became pretty much best friends quickly, and from that point on, we talked every single day. We did hang out a few times, but she was dating, and I was focused on myself, so nothing came of it. About 6 months later, I was bored one night, we were texting and I asked her on a date - for some reason, this time it was pretty much love at first sight.
The good of the next 2 years - incredibly compatible. On religion/faith, kids, dreams, vacations, food, pets, location, sex, politics. I used to keep a joke running tally of how many things we agreed on. Our kids met after about a year, and were crazy about each other - there was no "blending", they did it all. My friends and family loved her, and vice versa. We travelled, I helped her buy a house (the logistics), helped her raise a puppy, she spoiled my kids. Almost idyllic for the largest part.
The bad of the next 2 years - she is ACOA and XH worked 90 hour weeks leaving her alone with a daughter for 6 years. I struggled mightily with trust because of aforementioned XW, and the two of these together sometimes brought about pretty chaotic moments, many of which I admit were my fault. Because of my background with DB, I did go to counseling and work on my side of things and found immense relief.
Things steadily got better through this past summer, but SO seemed to get distant oddly enough. Finally, we talked about how we had both been through a lot, and maybe needed some time to regroup, so we agreed in July to step back, focus on ourselves, and take some time to heal. I went very dim for about a month, went to weekly counseling, read a ton of relationship books. I contacted her about a month later, and we saw each other a few times over the next couple months, but she was VERY guarded, although she reiterated that she loved me and complimented me often on my personal growth. She mentioned several barriers to our success, said that she didn't believe that I had healed enough from my issues, and that some things would have to change for us to be together.
I told her I understood and was in agreement, and maybe it would even be good to scale things back a little, and move even more slowly. She said she didn't think it would work out, and had actually starting seeing someone back in July (when we originally agreed to take some time) - even though she had spent several days with me over the last several weeks, told me she loved me many times, etc. It floored me! She said he was just a very nice guy, it was not a relationship, she wasn't sleeping with him, and he promised her that she could just "be herself". I was stunned, and went into the typical non-DB of reminding her of what she said, that it was really crappy, that we both knew our history. I sent her lots of texts and calls and she said she was happy in this non-relationship, and didn't want to try again. She said she was now moving on, gave the ILYBINILWY quote (even though she had said she loved me like 2 weeks earlier), she would not change her mind, etc. She told my friends she was moving on and wanted nothing to do with me.
We finally met and spoke in person about a month ago, and she was completely the opposite - she was kind and told me she was so impressed with how hard I had worked and the obvious growth. I told her that I was happy she had met someone, and actually got up to leave, and she said, "Don't you want to stay and talk?" I asked her what the purpose was if she had started another relationship, and she said she was not in love with OM, wasn't sure if it would work out, and who knew what time would tell for us, and she was so glad we talked. She told me how handsome I looked, and I fixed a hanging light for her, and she said I was very handy and OM wasn't handy at ALL. I texted her a few days later asking her how she would like to proceed, be friends, etc, and she was back to the opposite - hard, cold, "it's over", "I'm done", and proceeded to block my phone. I was confused, and went to talk to her again, and she was oddly again very sweet, and said she just needed to think about things. I emailed her the next week again saying that I wanted us to just be open, and she was BACK to hard and cold, and threatened to block my email.
Luckily, I remembered the DB lessons, and quit all the pursuit after about 2-2.5 weeks, and subsequently have gone completely dark. Her good friend told me that OM is a rebound relationship and he is very bland and nice and mild, basically doesn't rock the boat.
I dunno, just journaling so the thoughts are out of my head, and I can see them a bit more objectively! - obviously we don't have a marriage to save, but when I step back from the emotional aspect of this, there is more than enough good things to give an effort to someone who clearly is hurting right now. I know I needed to stop pursuit, and I knew I needed to go dark right now, so just trying to figure out my next steps.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I am gonna post my current thoughts so I can look back on my frame of mind in the weeks to come. I forgot to mention no snooping as well. I wasn't doing it a ton, but like I follow SO's sister's Instagram, so I just unfollowed it. Blocked on Facebook - anything where I can casually look. And I'm honestly not bothered anymore. Definitely no temperature taking.
We don't have anything like divorce proceedings or kids to accommodate any real reason for specific communication, so my idea is a touchpoint of communication after what will be about 6 weeks of going dark. Her birthday is Christmas Eve - she has complained how her family and ex's always just lumped her in with Christmas - so last year I made a big deal out of her birthday with flowers and balloons and a cake, and it made her so happy.
She said no guy in her entire history had ever done that, and she was just on cloud nine for weeks. I am thinking of doing something low-key this year - like a non-romantic card that just says "Hey didn't want your birthday to get lost in Christmas like usual, so I hope it's amazing!"
I have 3 weeks to think about it, so just tossing it out here.
I am just looking back at my experience with XW - I did the pursuing for months and it was awful, but when I finally was able to convince myself to truly DB, she came back after about 4 months of going dark. We already had a filed and signed D, and she stopped it. I'm not necessarily expecting the same behavior, but trying to use the principles. I feel like I'm in a much better place now thanks to DBing, actually re-read the book again (although again I'm not married).
What I'm stepping back and seeing are the facts - SO is exhibiting very similar signs to XW as a WAW. She told me last month when we spent a day together that I was "back to being the man she met", and "I wish I could trust that things would continue to improve". She jumped into a rebound relationship, but doesn't know how to define it except to say it's "not a relationship", and this is something she has told others. She is sweet and kind and talks about our future one minute, and is cold and "done" the next. Clearly, she's very confused, and I am not going to try to decipher anything; but I have learned the hard way from experience and others on here that the one thing that works is to let go, and let go early before you run it into the ground.
She has seen, pointed out, and knows that I put in a significant amount of work on myself. Not for her, but for ME, and she has specifically said she has seen and likes the results. She has compared me favorably to the OM several times. So, instead of temperature checking and pressuring, I'm backing off. I'm sure there is some hurt that is causing the kind of wild swings of emotion, and we all know what that's like.
So as far as accomplish: 1. Space for her to heal and grow, and let the changes sink in. This is something that we had talked about late summer, but I think at the time we were in conflict. Now, she has specifically recognized how much I've accomplished, and I'm glad I'm leaving her with that. I have no time limit on this. I figure when I am done, I'll be done. 2. Time to let the "nice guy" OM friend fizzle out if it's going to. Again, lesson learned, you can't make inroads while the OP is providing the fun emotional filler they seek. 3. Continue focusing on myself. I am probably having the most successful personal growth of my life, and it's amazing. 4. After a period of time (I arbitrarily chose 6 weeks), reach out in a non-threatening, non-romantic way, and just see how/if she responds.
Those seem somewhat reasonable to me, but that's why I'm writing them down. I am trying to find a balance between realizing I need to let things shake out if I want to hope for a reconciliation, but also continue moving on and not getting bogged down if things are truly done.
I am trying to find a balance between realizing I need to let things shake out if I want to hope for a reconciliation, but also continue moving on and not getting bogged down if things are truly done.
So you are looking to save this relationship? Or not.
Quote:
I am probably having the most successful personal growth of my life, and it's amazing.
So care to share any of this information?
Specifically maybe how did you get to this point? And what do you change moving forward?
Well, I typed like 5 paragraphs then decided to just answer your questions:
So you are looking to save this relationship? Yes.
Specifically maybe how did you get to this point? 2+ years of counseling, praying, seeking counsel from friends, reading everything I could get my hands on, practicing meditation and self-control, learning to listen to hear instead of reply, learning the 5LLs, and on and on. It has not come easy, but it has been powerful.
And what do you change moving forward? Quite honestly, when we mutually agreed to the time to heal, SO had already seen and recognized the changes in me, and the next 4-5 months were me just REALLY hunkering down and putting into practice what I had learned in every aspect of my life. When we agreed to take the time, she said she loved and adored me and wanted to work on things with me, and believed in the future.
So, I really don't understand why she jumped into this odd relationship at that point, and somehow disconnected her heart, and really turned sorta ugly and mean at times. When we reconnected, she said, "You are back to being the man I fell in love with". So, I don't even know what I would change or adjust, because I literally have had no chance to interact with her significantly with the new perspective and approach I have. My only assumption is that maybe she is just still stuck on some of the hurts from the past, and like many WAW, having trouble believing in real change. She did at one point say, "I wish you had been like this 6 months ago." Maybe some of that WAW resentment that you didn't change sooner? I'm just thinking out loud.
So, I really don't understand why she jumped into this odd relationship at that point, and somehow disconnected her heart, and really turned sorta ugly and mean at times.
Based on what you wrote (which I realize is just a limited perspective), your GF does not sound like a very mature, stable person. She's flip-flopping in her position, and not communicating to you clearly what she's thinking. If you look at her whole life, what is the overall pattern? What is her character?
Also, what -- if anything -- does your GF have in common with your XW? Maybe you tend to gravitate towards same type of people....
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
Maybe it has nothing to do with you. Have you considered that?
I'm absolutely certain it has nothing to do with me. It was more of a rhetorical question... I've read enough stories on here, and seen enough in my own experience to realize that it's their own hurt, anger, frustration, pick your emotion.
@ForGump - I would say she is relationally immature, and she admits it and has been to counseling for it. I have gone to some Al Anon groups to understand the ACOA mindset, and they are unbelievably adverse to conflict because of the chaos that type of life inflicts.
And, she has VERY little in common with XW except for both had a background of abuse - which I have discovered has been a draw to me from the last couple years of counseling. I'm definitely a fixer type - which is why I suggested time apart, and when she turned odd, I tried to very quickly decouple and stop chasing in this because I knew I would get sucked into trying to "fix it".
Oh, I was DEFINITELY a rescuer with XW and before - I wanted to fix her abuse from her ex-husband, save her from drowning debt, be a father to her kids (they only saw their dad 6 weeks a year). I would say SO is the first relationship that wasn't a rescue attempt - I didn't find out about her past until after we had been dating some time. Believe me, it's why I suggested we step back, and then went dark after the crap - I don't really have those tendencies after counseling and my personal growth, but I wasn't going to tempt any triggers.
I guess as far as her seeing someone, it's an odd scenario. If it was an EA/PA, and she was in love, and making plans for a future, that would be the more quintessential WAW thing that I would expect. But she was ADAMANT to me, even at the last that he was a great friend, nice guy, but they were NOT in a relationship, she wasn't sleeping with him, and she did NOT know what their future held - she actually said, "Even now, he just introduces me as a friend". And I wasn't asking for details, she went out of her way to share them with me. It almost sounds like he got friend-zoned, to use a modern phrase! Like I said, her friend told me that he was just a bland, no-conflict, very mild-mannered rebound.
I don't even care honestly - I know it's what the WAS does. Find something to pet their emotional needs, even if it WAS an EA/PA. I think she has enjoyed my pursuit honestly. She is still attracted to me, and has said so - has described me as handsome and sexy, has spent entire days just talking to me, sent me pics of her, etc. She was getting her cake, definitely, so I put a stop to it.
Regardless, I did tell her that I wasn't going to communicate about a relationship while she was seeing someone regularly and exclusively, and calling them "dates". She actually said she wanted to see me, but didn't want to hurt OM - basically she was calculating how to have BOTH of us.
Good move, stopping the flirting while she's seeing someone else.
Sounds like all you can do -- and should do -- is move on with your life, and give her the space she needs to sort out what she wants out of life. She sounds majorly confused.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
Good for you on standing up!! I know it's hard but like you said, give her space and let her figure it out. No contact has to be the hardest thing to start but hopefully it gets easier.
Kinda funny - Thursday morning I was REALLY missing the SO. We haven't talked in over 2 weeks now, and I went through Thanksgiving and then just it kinda hit me; mostly because we had made some fun plans for the holidays.
Then.... some guys asked me to go out for wings and Thursday night football, and I had a great time. Then today,I worked a half day, because I picked up my kids' new puppy - who is adorable! They had the best reactions (early Christmas present) and absolutely are in love with her. Then I went downtown in my little town for the Christmas tree lighting with some friends, and got some pizza on the way back.
Now, the pup is sleeping at my feet and I realized that I have a pretty awesome life. I guess sometimes I wonder if SO is happy, thinking about me, not thinking about me, but then I remember that my wondering won't change anything.
GAL! Detach! No temperature checking! No ping-pong in my head!
Glad you are having a good couple days!! Pups tend to do that. Mine lab is 7 months old and he has helped me so much when I get down. He's sleeping by the fireplace as I type. Hold old and type of dog? Like you, I wonder all the time but it does no good and you're right it doesn't change anything.
It's a German shepherd mix - a rescue. But the sweetest little thing! I broke the dark by sending SO a picture of her and just said, "My new pup"; she LOVES puppies.
Got no response. Didn't really expect any, but it [censored]. Weird to me how she used to be the most loving compassionate kind person, and then kinda just goes dead. I guess the "alien" concept really applies...
Regardless, I did tell her that I wasn't going to communicate about a relationship while she was seeing someone regularly and exclusively, and calling them "dates". She actually said she wanted to see me, but didn't want to hurt OM - basically she was calculating how to have BOTH of us.
So, I went dark.
Got no response. Didn't really expect any, but it [censored]. Weird to me how she used to be the most loving compassionate kind person, and then kinda just goes dead. I guess the "alien" concept really applies...
How is it that you perceive that she was a loving compassionate person when she was calculating how to have two partners?
I read manipulative selfish person in your statements...
bippy, As I read your thread I perceive that you may need to do some more work on yourself and really understand dbing.
I have seen comments from you that indicate book knowledge, but your actions are speaking louder... You indicate you are a rescuer... You indicate that you understand that this issue is hers... You say you went dark, but you send a text with an expectation... You should be moving on and focused on you, but you share much thought swirling about her... She is clearly not in a good state of mind for a healthy relationship, yet you want to continue after her.
I don't see that you indicated how long after your mMR with xw, that you moved into a relationship with this one? How long was it. Be honest and step in front of a mirror and ask yourself..." Am I ready to be in a relationship or do I have some more work to do?"
I am not judging, but I see many fail to do the work on themselves before jumping in again...perhaps this is why 2nd marriages have a higher D rate...?
I wish you luck, but thus far I see a very cheeseless tunnel in your thread here, and you have set up camp.
Me 46 Former W 46 D19 D7 BD Feb 2016 WAW moves out 4/16/16 D final 6/1/2017
It's time for me to start changin' the way I look at the world......and at myself. ~James Howlett aka Wolverine
As a recovering Fisher, I totally feel the text picture was fishing. But hey, we slide and then recoup, right?
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
@vapo: I honestly wasn't fishing for a response and I had no expectation of receiving one. I won't lie and say it wouldn't make me happy if I GOT one, but I guess that's why I'm here... I've been on here long enough to know not to read anything into it, though.
@SH: when we met, and for almost 2 years, I can honestly say I have never met a more kind, understanding, compassionate person. I can't think of a single person I ever heard her say a bad word about. She never got angry, was always happy. Again, the whole "alien" concept when I see this very hurting, broken, twisted person who has lost their way. I'm simply trying to balance understanding the fog she's in right now with the person I truly believe her to be at her heart. I may end up having to admit I'm wrong, and I'll do that if I need to. I can honestly say that she probably only pops up in my head a few times a day here and there. I have been doing very well at GAL, detaching, etc. Again, just sharing... And of course, I'm sure there is further work to do on me. I am still in counseling, and working every day. I simply maybe display my areas of weakness with a little more vulnerability on here. P.S. It was about 2.5 years after D, and we were best friends for 6 months before we dated.
@Psy: Fair enough - I like "recovering fisher"! I committed to myself to have no further communication until her birthday on 12/24 as I planned, so ready for three weeks!
Just journaling to myself. It's been a pretty good day! I had a long talk with my best friend, and he really spoke good words into me, and I have been feeling a lot better. Funny how you forget how many people love you just for who you are - when your other half tells you how bad you are! It just serves to hammer the point that the real confusion and spinning is in the WAS. (Obviously we all have our goods and bads.)
I also have had three different people jokingly tell me I should charge them for my advice on their relationships - and I'm really just using DB principles to objectively look at things. One person set a boundary with their domineering mother-in-law, another was freaking out over a new relationship and calmed down, another went and took their angry wife flowers instead of getting angry back. Spreading the DB love!
Now three weeks of dark with only one contact. I won't slip up again. I feel like the moments of missing and wondering wth happened are shorter and less often. I just keep reminding myself in another three weeks I'll find myself focusing on Christmas and other things. Then three weeks later, it'll be into a new year and a new start!
My GAL: 1. I've started trying to set daily, weekly, monthly and yearly goals to accomplish, so I'm going to write those out this evening, and start trying to make that a point every day. I just want to get my focus on accomplishing things. 2. Set a weight loss goal - rejoined the gym even though I have been working out at home some, and have lost 11 lbs. Ironically, SO had gained about 20 lbs from the point we took the time apart in July; probably petty to notice that, but hey, I'm amongst friends right? 3. Schedule my first over-seas trip. I have been trying to get to this since things with the XW went sideways almost 6 years ago ~ and it's time to do something for ME.
When I actually do GAL activities it does wonders for my mood and detachment. Keep on keepin' on!
M 10yrs T 13yrs BD #1Oct 2015-PA between WAH and COW BD #2 April 2016-WH resumed PA, she broke it off Jan 2 2017 WH says he wants divorce April '17-Letting go 2018 D busted DD8, DS6, DS3
I committed to myself to have no further communication until her birthday on 12/24 as I planned, so ready for three weeks!
Hello Bippy78,
I'm so sorry for the situation you are in.
Be very cautious in how you proceed with your well intention-ed birthday wish.
Knowing what to do and what not to do at this point is crucial. Feel free to give me a call at 303-444-7004 to discuss how we can best help you determine what to do next.
Cristy Resource Coordinator The Divorce Busting Center 303-444-7004
A Divorce Busting Coach can help you save your marriage, even when your spouse wants out.
Email virginia@divorcebusting.com or 303-444-7004 for more information or to get started right away.
Just checking in! I took a 4-day weekend so have been enjoying it and relaxing. Got some Christmas shopping done, went out with a friend Friday night, did some dates with my kids, played with the new puppy. I feel amazingly relaxed. I had been dealing with a pulled back muscle, but it has been good for a week now, so am slowly working back into weight training.
I actually changed my mind on the birthday card. It is probably temperature taking, and quite honestly, even if it meant something to her, my guess is that it would simply make her find something ugly to say to balance out the fact she can't make me the bad guy anymore.
My IC has me doing some homework about the "feelings" I have when I think about SO and it took me a couple of days, but I think I have it nailed down. As I think back, even after she admitted to seeing OM, she talked about how I was handy and he wasn't, how he was just "nice", bought me a watch and told me how sexy it looked, basically said I was more "interesting" than he was. She pointed out many times how amazing I was doing as far as being healthy relationally and how proud she was of me, and actually said at one point, "You're exactly who I wanted". Then to basically in the space of a week turn into a monster...
Maybe it's a romanticized viewpoint, but isn't that what love is? Working through a tough situation where two people have brought their own baggage - and not only defeating that tough situation, but coming out a better man. And I didn't just become a better person in our relationship, but I feel like I'm a better father, better friend, my faith is stronger, etc.
I wonder if there are others on here who have maybe gotten to a point of general acceptance, but are stuck where I am, and it's a question of "Why?" It's a rhetorical question I guess, and I already know not to try to rationalize a broken mind, but still...
I'm not really stuck on this, but it surfaces in my mind from time to time, so just journaling it here.
It's been a good couple weeks! I have been dark as night, but have had a couple people tell me a few things.
A bit of encouragement for those of you in LRT or Going Dark - apparently, things are a bit iffy with the OM. The X has started posting stuff on social media about being hurt. Also, she commented on a picture that she "is ready for the holidays to be over!" - and she always loved Christmas and NYE more than anything.
I don't inquire or snoop, just hear from a mutual friend that is not happy with her for what she did. It doesn't really move my needle any, but there is some satisfaction in knowing that her life didn't magically get all perfect from walking away - and if I was the real issue, then why isn't she on cloud 9 right now and super happy?
Anyway, I have been enjoying family, going out with friends, getting into a good workout routine, and making plans to travel to Europe. Just journalling. Oh, and a cute girl wants to go bowling with me!
I committed to myself to have no further communication until her birthday on 12/24 as I planned, so ready for three weeks!