LRT in Full Effect. Scared but still determined

[Vanilla]

I agree with Sandi in this.

Temp check.

V

[Rose888]

Thanks Rose8888 and Natus.

Rose8888, what was life like for you and your H for the month of April between his two announcements? What is life like for you now?

Chris, sorry for the delay in response. I haven't had time for a lengthy answer until now. I see that you are planning to step away from the boards for a bit, but I'm going to go ahead and answer now while I have time.

I should set the stage for April. My husband had been having mild MLC signs for a couple of years--set off by our oldest son leaving for college, I believe. He was struggling with feelings of depression about parenting and about his career. The previous summer, the depression had focused on our marriage, and I belatedly began seeking medical treatment for my low libido. (There is no obvious cause, so this has had only a mild effect.) Because of his seasonal depression, he'd spent the winter away from home, with the kids and I seeing him for one week in a 10-week stretch. During this time, I'd been doing a lot of reading about sex-starved marriages, and I was prepared to turn things around when he returned.

And then he came back and seemed very distant. After a few days, I confronted him and he admitted that he felt detached and was thinking of leaving. That was early April.

The first week or so involved way too much begging, pleading, crying and relationship talks. He offered to move out of the bedroom. I declined the offer and tried to sleep on the couch instead, but I only lasted an hour or two.

I tried to "detach" by treating him as a neighbor, not initiating conversation, etc. This was a disaster. H felt like he was being gamed. (I should add that H and I both work from home and share an office, and usually talk quite a bit during the day, so this was a marked change.)

I started seeing a counselor, who helped me process my feelings so I wasn't spinning so much at home, and when I started, I was able to stop sooner.

H and I stopped having R talks.

I started GAL, mostly on the weekends.

Through this, H was very involved with the house and the children. Because he'd been away, he took over the bulk of household and kid chores. He would bring me cups of tea and be thoughtful in other ways.

As far as I know, there has been no affair.

I think April was a painful month for him, because he felt he had two bad choices--stay with me and give up his chance of a passionate relationship with someone who desired him, or split up our family and hurt many people so he could pursue personal happiness. He spent a lot of time agonizing over the choice he should make. He believed that I was sincere about making changes, but he had little belief that people could change long-term. (Interestingly, this was one benefit of doing even minor 180s--it helped him believe that I could change.)

He was very distant physically during the day, so I stopped hugging him or touching him during the day. At night, he still slept with his arm around me, and because I was trying to 180 our sex life, I would initiate when I sensed he might be receptive. There's more I could say here, but I don't think there are many other low-libido spouses on the board.

I also started 180ing other things that he hadn't complained about but that I knew introduced tension into our relationship at times. I was less prickly and dismissive of a certain strain of his humor. I even played along. I tried new things that I wouldn't have tried before. I stopped nagging, and I stopped trying to fix things that went wrong because I wasn't nagging. ;-)

Most critically, I stopped looking to him to provide my emotional validation. I became more emotionally self-sufficient and far less needy. Likewise, I stopped letting his bad mood or stress affect me, and I stopped trying to "fix" things.

When H committed to trying to connect, it wasn't because he felt love for me. The emotion that convinced him to stay was actually anger. He figured anger was not detachment, so maybe he there was hope that he could feel love for me again.

How are things now?

Honestly, the best they've ever been. H responded to my 180s by doing some 180s of his own. We are communicating better, we are more careful with each other. We make more of an effort to please each other while still maintaining our independence.

I still GAL and focus on detaching.

Our sex life is far better than it was.

H still suffers from seasonal depression, and we are facing another winter spent mostly apart, but we are heading into it with a much stronger relationship.

My main worry is that I will grow complacent and slip back into old ways. I don't know how likely that is, because I like the new marriage and the new me better than the old, but I watch for signs of slipping.

I don't know if any of that was helpful. April was very hard. May was hard. (We tried counseling, but only went to two sessions before she essentially said she couldn't help us.) Things became much better in June, but I didn't hear an ILY until the very end of September. We had no R talks once we left counseling at the end of May.

I haven't seen another situation on the board that seems as easy as mine. I consider myself lucky. Part of me still waits for the shoe to drop.

[Chris73]

Rose8888. Thank you so much for the in-depth reply. When I have more time I will respond in more detail. Suffice it to say I'm extremely happy for you that things seem to be working.

As for Sandi2 and Vanilla. You two are totally right. I am biting every hook she throws at me and it's getting in the way of me truly detaching and GaL.

I think the challenge for me is that this msg board and the books they were created to support are called Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy. The words "Save your marriage" are emblazoned everywhere on the site. But once you start to understand the techniques, it turns out that the main goal isn't to save your marriage, it's to help you become a better person. It's almost as if saving the marriage is a "nice to have" when practicing these techniques. I'm not at all claiming false advertising here. But it just seems confusing.

Anyway, yesterdays MC session was another painful one. I started off the session describing the events that transpired last week that led to us deciding to have a trial separation and stop sleeping in the same bed.

From there I stated what I wanted to come out of this trial separation. Basically the subject of honesty was discussed the most.

We discussed a few more issues, and then I told the MC that I didn't think coming back was going to be worth while since my W and I are in different places. I want to work on the marriage, she wants to pull away. The MC agreed that these sessions wouldn't be productive unless we were both on the same page, but she encouraged us to come back in 2 weeks to discuss how the separation was going. To give us a forum to analyze the progress and decide if additional changes need to be made.

The highlight of the session was when my W said, "I'm not in love with you and I never was. The decision for me to stay in this marriage is a fight between my logical brain that knows that I have friendship, security and stability with you. We have 2 amazing kids and I don't want them to go through a divorce. But my heart is saying that there's something better out there for me and I don't want to look back 10 years from and realize that I should have left when I still had a chance at finding it."

Quite a highlight eh? Not the words you ever expected to hear when you were making wedding plans or painting the baby's room!

On the drive home sh*t got real. We continued the conversation about the specifics of our schedule. My wife doesn't want me to be home. She wants to experience more time without me in the family to see how it feels to be out of our marriage. When I AM home, she wants me to live downstairs when the kids aren't around. My office is downstairs and all my clothes are in the downstairs bathroom. "It's just more convenient for both of us."

At that point, I'd had enough. I pulled the car over to the side of the road and said, "Why the f*ck are we even doing this? Let's say a month or two goes by, is it really going to make any difference?" She said, "I don't think so". So I asked, "Why prolong the inevitable then? Let's just get this over with and get divorced." She started crying and said, "I don't want a divorce."

And that's where the conversation ended. I'm back to my focus on LRT and GAL. I'm going to make an honest effort to detach because I now understand that this is all about me now. She's clearly in the thick of some mental fog or perhaps a MLC and she's going to IC every week to work through her issues. This doesn't provide me with hope for the marriage but at least it makes me feel better that she's admitting she has issues to work through and for the sake of my kids and her own happiness, I hope she makes progress.

Meanwhile, I have a life to get!

[Vanilla]

This board is about Divorce Busting.

That is broad, it is beyond saving your M, letting go of the old M and creating a new one.

That is the reason we are all here. It is the reason I came here truly it is.

Divorcing Busting isn't the same as Marriage Building or Repairing your M.

Divorcing Busting foR me, is about developing me so that I am capable of healthyour R. The route to this Divorce Busting is me, I am getting me through to the other side. Healthier, wiser and better put together.

I didon't not bust my D with The Giggalo, and I did bust my D with myself. I was truly divorced from myself. That D is well and truly busted, I am in piecing with me.

That's the way I see it.

V

[Rose888]

I think the challenge for me is that this msg board and the books they were created to support are called Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy. The words "Save your marriage" are emblazoned everywhere on the site. But once you start to understand the techniques, it turns out that the main goal isn't to save your marriage, it's to help you become a better person. It's almost as if saving the marriage is a "nice to have" when practicing these techniques. I'm not at all claiming false advertising here. But it just seems confusing.

<snip>

The highlight of the session was when my W said, "I'm not in love with you and I never was. The decision for me to stay in this marriage is a fight between my logical brain that knows that I have friendship, security and stability with you. We have 2 amazing kids and I don't want them to go through a divorce. But my heart is saying that there's something better out there for me and I don't want to look back 10 years from and realize that I should have left when I still had a chance at finding it."

Quite a highlight eh?

I just wanted to respond to these two bits that I quoted.

First, I don't think the point of the books is to help you become a better person. It's to help you save your marriage but the way you save your marriage is by becoming a better person. There is no guarantee (because there is no system or plan that will let you control another adult), but luckily, even if the main objective fails, you'll be left with an improved you. So following DB won't hurt and is your best chance at helping.

It's like if your kid loses something and you tell them to clean their room. Even if they don't find the missing item, they will have a clean room which will make them less likely to lose things in the future.

I can't remember which book I have--I think it's DR--but I noticed that most of the people here fall into the "special cases" categories that are addressed at the back of the book. The bulk of the book is addressed to easier cases. MWD admits that it's harder to save a marriage in one of the special cases. So I think the boards give the impression that the method has a higher failure rate than it does.

As for what your wife said to you, it's pretty common to hear. I heard something very much like it. Hang in there. Your plan to focus on GAL and detaching is right on.

[Chris73]

Thank you Rose888 for that perfect explanation! I love the metaphor of cleaning the room to find something lost. I'm going to return to that visualization often for inspiration. It makes perfect sense.

[Chris73]

Ugh! I'm so stupid. Picked a fight with the W tonight. Totally unnecessary. I was acting like a child. Likely undid any progress I might have made in the past couple of weeks. I feel like sh*t

[Jug]

We all backslide sometimes. Just try to plan for how to avoid it next time. Our situations are so similar and I really feel for you. Stay strong.

[Chris73]

I know this is mostly a selfish point of view but I've been thinking more and more about moving out. My W has told me emphatically several times that she will NEVER leave her kids. I certainly don't want to leave either, but I think continuing to live in the same house will only keep me from making progress with detaching. I wish there was some sort of middle ground. We really don't have the $ to rent a place so the other option is for me to move back in with my mother or maybe even just staying there a couple nights a week (which of course means telling her about our sitch). I could easily tell the kids that my mom needs more help and that's why I'm staying there. I feel like this decision is might be helpful but goes against some of the advice on this board. It's just that until W agrees to start repairing, being here just makes me resentful.

[Rose888]

If you don't have money to rent a place, what's the plan for if you divorce?

Does your wife have a paid job?

If you want the change to help you detach, I think it's critical that your living arrangement makes you feel strong and confident. Not sure living with your mom will do that.