Well

[SBJ]

I know the fight is real and that we think that our marriages are worth saving, or else we wouldn't be here. My family thinks I am nuts also...they say that I should face the facts and move on with my life. I know that there are other beautiful women out there that I could build a life with, but I meant my vows to my wife.

My priest said that I am doing what is right by standing for my marriage, but even he said that when and if she files for D that I should find a way to move on...not exactly what I wanted to hear from a man of the cloth.

In my case I do believe that it is a MLC, but not sure how long this fog will last. She has apologized to me that I'm hurting and that she is the one doing it, but still feels that this is something that she is needing to do...she says that this is her time to be selfish...like the last 25 years of our relationship hasn't been!

[Echotym]

Are we justified in allowing people to treat us like this. Do you look at like its a temporary disease or do we all have something wrong with us for allowing this type of behavior to permeate our lives.

are there examples or users that were the WAW that came out of the "fog". What finally did it? did they just determine that they were done having their fun? I cant believe my W is enjoying living with her parents but she does like to tell me she is happier 6 months ago she would shudder to think of living with them(her parents)

Does snapping out if it happen just as they went into it?

Are we incredibly dedicated and just, or just dumb? I totally believe if she tries to work on this relationship even a little we would be unstoppable?

rant over

Thanks

[sandi2]

Thank you for answering my questions. I see a few things that might be key for you to work on yourself.

Honesty we have really gotten along really well and had minimal to no conflict(from my perspective). We would both bargain for the things we each wanted but now reflecting on the R I see I may have not recognized how forceful I was with my opinions. I think she saw those hard rules when it was me telling her how I felt about something.

Would you say your W would often speak to you with a disrespectful tone or attitude? Yes both of us would me probably worse than her Would she ever talk down to you, make fun of you in front of others,Yes both of us talk badly about you to friends/family? yes but I thought we were joking Would she raise her voice,never stomp her foot,never make faces,in the last year roll eyes, yes I thought it was lovingly but recently it wasn't or some other expression of disrespect? What would you do.......overlook it, b/c it wasn't worth making a big deal out of it? Pretty much but we both treated each other this way

It's not easy to see ourselves as others see us. If you recognize that you could be seen as rather forceful with your opinions......start now in practicing in all your conversations with family/friends and focus on not lording your opinions over them. It's like retraining yourself how to verbally communicate. Then hopefully, you'll be more aware when speaking with your W.

Everyone has different backgrounds, personalities, etc. Whenever I have talked to couples, I tell them never to put the other one down in front of their children, relatives, friends, etc.......even if it's in a joking way. At some point, some day/time, you say something trying to be funny and it hits her the wrong way. She may not tell you she didn't appreciate what you said, but it's there, and she doesn't forget it. She carries it around and becomes more sensitive to you making her the butt of your jokes in front of others. It stops being funny to her and she silently resents you. She may try to put you down harder, as a way to get you back, which is a bad situation. It no longer is an attractive quality you hold. See what I mean? Some men may think it's crazy for a woman to get all sensitive when he's just joking around, however, when it's at her expense.......I would not advise it.

Respectful attitudes & behaviors are crucial in a MR. The spouse may not "feel" respect for the other one at that moment.....but they need to act in a respectful manner. That goes double whenever the couple is in the presence of others. Any type of disrespect is like a cancer on the MR.

Whenever you are interacting with your W, make sure you use respectful language, etc. You may not like what she's currently doing, but try to conduct yourself in a civilized and respectful way. We can address more on this subject later.

Thanks you so much you seem to be right on point. Is there a possiblility she wants to be pursued instead? flowers gifts I love yous as those are things I never did on the marriage.

You are most welcome. My advice for now is not to pursue her with flowers & gifts. No I love yous, or initiating a lot of calls/text. The reason is b/c that puts emotional pressure on her. Although it is the male's natural instinct to pursue the female, I encourage you to not chase her.

Here's the thing.......when your wife dropped the bomb, you were immediately in separate emotional time zones. She was "done", but you were jarred awake and ready to work on the MR. Different as day & night, as far as current emotional needs. She wants space (right or wrong in your opinion, that's what she currently wants from you). You want to lasso her back into the MR! My advice is to give her that space she wants. She has to be free to choose you....without you applying emotional pressure.

Just curious, why doesn't she remain friends with other women?

[SBJ]

Are we justified in allowing people to treat us like this. Do you look at like its a temporary disease or do we all have something wrong with us for allowing this type of behavior to permeate our lives.

Nobody wants to be taken advantage of and treated like _____. We all deserve to be loved and treated with respect. I for one am the one in our relationship that was labeled the "giver" and my W was the "taker". Every relationship should be balanced I believe, but I realize now that ours was lopsided for a long time.

are there examples or users that were the WAW that came out of the "fog". What finally did it? did they just determine that they were done having their fun?

I simply do not have an answer yet to this question. I am certain that my W is in the MLC fog, but not sure for how long and when/if she will emerge from it.

I cant believe my W is enjoying living with her parents but she does like to tell me she is happier 6 months ago she would shudder to think of living with them(her parents)

I cannot believe that my wife will really like living on her own either...even if she has the kids 50/50. It just seems lonely.

Does snapping out if it happen just as they went into it?

I have read that it is a slow progression out of the fog when they realize what they have done to all of their loved ones, but like I said...I'm simply waiting for mine to emerge right now.

Are we incredibly dedicated and just, or just dumb?

I feel that I should be "DEDICATED" because that follows the vows that I made to her and God...for better/worse, for richer/poorer, and for sicker/and in health.

I totally believe if she tries to work on this relationship even a little we would be unstoppable?

The key is that it is her choice as to working on the relationship. Mine started counseling with me and I was excited, but then she used the counseling as D facilitating...not cool. Now she is just sure that she wants out of a 25 year relationship. Kind of sad and extremely selfish.

Stay strong...

[j20a00g]

Ok ok ok....echo and sbj....stop. *reaches for 2x4 out of back pocket....year I have big pants*

Both of you (hell, me too!) needs to quit focusing on W actions and every moment and every word and what she's wearing and how beautiful she was and how great the meatloaf was, etc

That woman is gone! Gone! Poof! You are focused on treating this being in front of you as if it's her. It's not. May sometimes look like her. May sometimes look way better (depending on if she has an A going) but, nope not her.

You both had made some form of comment about only "waiting" til the fog lifts. I can assure you that if you pursue and act as if this person wants you in their life (as they are clearly showing and telling you they don't want to be) that you won't be around when/if the fog clears. Most importantly, you should be using this time for YOU. I'm just further in the process than you guys. I remember when I was lurking on here and read about people "detaching" and saying they will be great regardless of reconciling or not....I would roll my eyes and just say to myself, no way! I only want to be married and am focusing on that.

Let me tell you, once you really start buying in to the process you realize that the shackles loosen up a bit. You realize that you too had a fog around you. You were/are so focused on HER that you are grasping at anything and everything to try to "keep" her not realizing she's already gone.....the question is: will you keep pushing her away by doing what you've been doing or will you do what has atleast a chance and completely change your methods?

Also, for all the people that keep calling you. Regardless or not if they are "on your side" or not. I would tread carefully. A better response is: "we are in a tough spot right now and it's a personal matter that I would rather not discuss at this time" or "we are both taking some time and working on ourselves right now. Time will tell where we go from here"

More people in your business makes it that much more complicated. The problem is that the people that care about you want to protect you. We are here for you if you wanna vent. We promise we won't use it against you down the road as it could be used by people you or she knows

[Echotym]

the joking put downs were our MO. We always did it. I did recognize this several years ago and substantially dialed it back. That is definitely on me. She did it as well but it was an inability to communicate about things that bothered us.

while I did deeply respect her I did not show that to others in social settings that issue is recognized and I now know better, immaturity on both our parts. (fyi this is how her parents interact to this day)

her relationships with other women is a very vexing but very constant situation over the life of our relationship. there have been a few female friends but those R's soon crumble. she has to control information and women talk about each other I think that fundamentally bothers her. Even to the point that I am closer with her sister(I think) than she is. She has always stated that she hates women. She just identifies and enjoys being around men more. I think she valued the generally no BS style of communication. I don't necessarily think its a center of attention thing either but she may have grown into liking that recently. She is very attractive.

This may sound weird but we have never discussed how we feel about each other or our M and she has never discussed her feelings with me. I think we both just assumed things were great and they were until she thought they weren't. that has to sound crazy, right.

now this happens I'm all sharing my feeling with anyone that will listen but she is still incapable or really wont. When asked by her family why she didn't bring any of these issues up before she said she doesn't talk about her feelings. yikes

Thanks so much for your help this really helps.

[SBJ]

That woman is gone! Gone! Poof! You are focused on treating this being in front of you as if it's her. It's not. May sometimes look like her. May sometimes look way better (depending on if she has an A going) but, nope not her.

I totally am beginning to see that it is not her...almost like invasion of the body snatchers.

You both had made some form of comment about only "waiting" til the fog lifts.

Aren't we doing this to better ourselves either way? I thought that the end goal was to make ourselves better in the hopes that they will see our true selves again...and even if they decide not to come back to us, we will be better for US as well as for whomever we decide to love in the future.

Let me tell you, once you really start buying in to the process you realize that the shackles loosen up a bit. You realize that you too had a fog around you. You were/are so focused on HER that you are grasping at anything and everything to try to "keep" her not realizing she's already gone.....the question is: will you keep pushing her away by doing what you've been doing or will you do what has atleast a chance and completely change your methods?

I'm definitely not trying to push anybody away right now...I've stopped the phone calls and texts unless it is responding to her. I have not gone above and beyond as far as doing things for her around the house. I have had to pick up more of the laundry and kitchen work since she has slacked. If I want to eat, I have to cook, so I continue to do that. I just wish I had a better timeline on: a)how long for her to come out of the fog, 2)how long does it take for me to come to full detachment, 3)how to remove my fog...I guess you mean the one where I am totally infatuated with my W and kids.

[j20a00g]

1.) if we knew the exact date and time the fog will lift (or even if it will lift), do u hunk we would all put in the work to improve ourselves and the situation?

2.) could take you 45 seconds could take a while. One way to think about it is that the longer it takes, the more difficult you are making the situation for you

3.) I'm cool with the kids thing. But your fog right now is that you are so focused on "winning" her back. Quite frankly, you are the prize here and she should be trying to win you back once you put in the work and focus on yourself.

[Echotym]

So she has been out of the house for over two months. She is starting to reach out to friends and my family. People are asking me what they should say. I've been saying whatever you want. You know the story tell her how you feel.

She has been almost completely off the radar but has asked my sister and best friend out to dinner.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

[j20a00g]

Quit enabling other people to be engaged. They may think they are helping but they are not. Think about it, at this point, she isn't going to listen to anyone against her and if anything it will push her further from you.

When people call to ask simply say "I appreciate you wanting help but this is a private matter that needs to be between only us"

Naturally you can't tel them to not go to dinner with her but simply let them know that you would appreciate that they not accept the role of middle man. They have nothing to do with the relationship and if they cared and want to help, then they can help by reducing involvement. No reason they can't go to dinner but it doesn't need to just be an oppty for them to get the dirt.