Newby here, desperate for some advice (thread 5)

[JRuss]

Sorry I've been AWOL, FG and lt -- more on that in a moment.

Second MC went ok, I guess. It's still pretty one-sided and weighted to W's perspective/experience, but W seems bought in and even asked the MC when we could schedule Round 3 (it will be 11/10). That seemed bullish to me, but then I start second guessing, thinking she has in mind a set number of meetings she needs to go to to do her duty and then will pull the plug, and she's just looking to get there. I don't know why I do that to myself, but I do.

So the sessions both have seemed to go well in terms of W opening up, sharing, and catharsis, but there's no change on the ground at all that I can detect in terms of her moving anywhere back towards me or the marriage. And with the meetings spread out every two weeks, I'm not sure how we ever generate any momentum, because we just go back home and into the same dynamic. The MC recommended a book to me (which I've read) after the first session, and she sent me home with a thought she wanted me to try to keep in mind ("How am I making my partner feel?") during the interim period, but there doesn't seem to be much homework or anything that I can see that will move the dial. Maybe that comes later, after the MC is sure W isn't going to pull the plug? Not sure.

One of the things that came up in Round 2 was that W is really pushed away by my palpable sadness. "It just comes off of you and permeates everything", "friends, relatives and the kids can tell you're miserable", etc. As I've relayed, I'm not detached, haven't been able to get there, and I'm sure that this is right and accurate. I'm not an actor, and I come off as heartbroken, because I am. But I'm going to try to figure this out. I need to be sunnier on the outside, and I guess that's why the MC sent me home with that thought to keep in mind.

Which is part of why I've been AWOL. As incredible as the support is here, and it is incredible -- I wish so much I could repay the kindness I've been shown here by you guys and others! -- reading all of the various sitches and all of the horrible pain that's being suffered by so many seemingly great people, it contributes to my sadness. I take it on and carry it alongside all of what I'm dealing with in my own sitch and, as I said, I need to be projecting a more detached, happier image, so I've been staying away. I feel guilty about that. Does this happen to anyone else?

I sure am hoping for good things in all of our sitches, though, and if I'm not around quite as much, I hope people will understand. I will be here as I can handle it, for sure.

[doodler]

JRuss,

I'm not a doctor, but I used to enjoy playing doctor. I'd recommend seeing a doctor about depression; you'll be glad you did.

[JRuss]

doodler -- I'm many years into the depression/anxiety journey, and it contributed greatly to the demise of my marriage. My IC (been working with her for about 18 months) says I'm not depressed anymore but am heartbroken/grieving the relationship's end. There is a difference in terms of symptoms that I've noticed. Detachment is what I need for the sitch but also for me. How to get there?!?!?!

[doodler]

JRuss,

Well, darn it all, my quick-fix suggestion didn't work this time. Now you've ruined my life.

Detachment is like a rainbow, it seems like you can never get to the end. Or something like that. That was supposed to be a quotable metaphor, but you messed me up - again. You're so mean!

I don't know how to detach. I was a in a really good situation for detachment. My xW was (is) meaner than h3ll, so it made it easy to detach. If she had been nice, it would've been a lot harder to detach.

Seriously, for me, I didn't focus on detachment, I just did stuff that made me happy and everything else took care of itself. Am I detached? I guess I am, but it wasn't something that I actively tried to do.

That's probably no more help than my "see a doctor" suggestion, but it bumps you back up to the top of the list.

[JRuss]

Thanks, doodler. Yeah, my W is not mean overall, just burned out of the marriage and struggling with her life, with what she wants, etc. Same as the rest of us, I guess. This gives me hope, but sometimes hope is the hardest thing, and it definitely makes detaching harder, because you never fully give up your grasp on "the rope".

[JRuss]

Just an update. Haven't been around much because, well, I think I'm done trying to "bust" the looming divorce. This is a horrible, scary decision/feeling, but I've tried really, really hard for a long, long time, and we're no closer. We're actually much further away. When I think about all of it since BD, she's never moved back to me in any meaningful way. She wants what she wants, and that is, by definition in her mind, a life without me as anything other than the guy she has to co-parent. She's been willing to wait a very long time to get it, and she's willing to wait longer still, but that's where she's going to get to no matter what. Maybe she ends up realizing some number of years from now that her problems are not so much me as she thinks and much more her own; I won't in any event be around as an option at that point. I'm sure of that, so why it finally occurred to me am I still fighting this with my entire being?

Several days ago, we had (hopefully our last) difficult/painful relationship talk. She was in her usual mode -- it's all me that got us here, she doesn't see any way she could ever go back to feeling about me the way she needs to feel about a partner, she confirmed MC to her is only about learning to communicate with me better as we divorce (for the kids' benefit), she wants to be happy, or at least try to live a life where that could be a possibility. She did say one, very revealing thing: "This -- the four of us: it's not enough for me". It certainly was for me and for our two children, but what can you possibly do with that mindset, especially when you're under the same roof, just cementing with your presence every day the idea that she wants that presence to not be a part of her life? She sees a split as a way to have less parenting responsibility and a more-varied, vibrant life. Well, no $hit -- but, hello, what do the kids need? I stay up night after night stressing about how the children will react to a life that doesn't have both of their parents in it every day, and she fantasizes about precisely that. We just don't see the same world, much less have the sort of connection we'd need to have a marriage that could work.

I have done what I can do with the skills and temperament I was given in this life. I can say that with a straight face, mean it and believe it. As I have always told my daughter when she's struggled: we can only do what we can do; we should always do what we can, but it's not possible to do more. It's such easy and correct advice to give someone, but I've had a really hard time applying it to my situation. If I can apply it going forward, I think I might be able to relax some and not suffer as much as I have. Maybe I don't really have to torture myself over and over with thoughts that I'm not doing enough or doing it right, hypothesizing how things could be if only if . . .

I spent last night looking at area real estate with an eye toward figuring out what I could afford for the three of us post-split when it's my time with the kids. It made me feel better and not worse, which was eye opening. I'm going to continue to go down the planning road, which I've avoided all this time because it felt like I was in some way accepting that things might not "work out", and that seemed very wrong. I realize that is what I should have been doing for a long time, but, again, you do what you can do, with what you bring to the table in terms of your hardwiring, and you don't do more (because you can't).

I hope all of the kind people who've helped me here find peace in their situations. I will still be around and try to lend whatever help or insights I can, but I don't see a whole lot of sitch updates in my future -- I'm pretty sure I'm done trying to stop it from happening, whatever that's going to end up being. My life needs to be better now so I can be a good Dad, and doing this, what I've been doing for so long, I realize it contributes to a hugely painful existence that keeps me from that better parenting goal.

[ForGump]

It feels like a fever to me, JR. I have ... I mean, my head has, come to terms with what is inevitable. I know I just have to suffer through what has been set in motion a long time ago, my fate. I know I'll come out the other end. I know I can be in a good place again. Yet, right now, every bone feels the ache.

My W has said nearly the same thing to me: this is not enough for me. More specifically, You are not enough for me. I still believe that a few years down the road, or maybe even many years down the road, she will find herself right back where she started, because the hunger she feels, the emptiness she feels, is within her. Her happiness is found to be within, yet she's looking outward. But her foolishness is not something I can control.

I have talked to people who are in second or third marriages, who now realize and admit that their earlier marriages could have worked just fine. They realize were young(-er) and simply did not know how to be happy in a marriage. That's where my W is, and there is nothing I can do about it. I hope she learns from this divorce, but she may not, and simply keep repeating the pattern, and contribute to the divorce statistics we read about, where 2nd and 3rd marriages have higher divorce rates. I'm seeing now that there is a lifelong pattern in my W's relationships -- romantic, familial and platonic -- and I'm a part of the pattern.

This all s[u]cks for the kids, but that's the mother they have, that's the wife I have, and there is nothing I can do about that. If she chooses to break up the family, there is nothing I can do about that choice. I can only control me.

Hope you check back in the forum once in a while.

[mulesqb]

JRuss - Is it possible for you to look at the next phase of your life with any excitement? You have been at this a long time. I am amazed at how long LBS can stay at it living in fear, holding on for any positive their WW can give them. Back in my day we had a huge discussion about when is enough, enough. For me I wasn't willing to give away years of my life in the hopes that my XW would come to her senses. Instead, I came to my senses. You have fought the good fight. While it may be sad that you feel like you haven't achieved your goal you have stayed true to your core values and fought for your family and endured some incredible emotional stress. If your WW isn't attracted to someone that would do all that for that long a period of time, than what are you really losing??

It's incredibly tough to go through a family break up. But it can be done. it is done everyday. And you can get back to a life that not only you, but your kids thrive in.

You've done everything you can. No regrets. No more fear. embrace the future. Whatever that looks like.

You can handle this.

Strength and Honor.

Mules

[JRuss]

Thanks Gump and mules. I appreciate the support.

Gump -- you and I came here around the same time with remarkably similar situations, what I've always felt were shared core values with respect to fighting for our marriage and our children, and it looks like we've both sort of hit the same impervious wall at roughly the same time. I hope better days are in store for both of us, again on similar (hoping its fast) timing.

mules -- yes, I think looking forward with emotions other than fear and dread is definitely possible. A new house I own by myself, not decorated by my W, that I make into a great place for two kids -- not all bad when I think about it. My W doesn't eat beef or pork, so guess what I've eaten almost none of for 20 years? Some major menu changes coming. Yeah, no -- that's definitely my goal to start accepting what's coming and refocusing my efforts toward creating my and our new existence. Execution of that goal will be difficult, I'm sure. I'm still in-home separated, which is just a really difficult way to live if detachment is your goal, so I anticipate some backsliding. Who knows how it will all shake out, but we will see.

[JRuss]

FG -- just another quick word to say I understand how hearing "you're not good enough for me" feels when your spouse is the one saying it. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.