I just am a believer in how we talk about our spouses to other shapes how we FEEL and THINK about them. If we tell others they are a louse, then they BECOME a louse. Once you tell someone else something or put it in writing publicly, it becomes more fixed in your own mind. Of course we all have negative feelings from time to time, but they can pass if we don't make them a permanent part of our story or allow others to start to believe them too.
My point was also that we should be careful about reading too much negativity, because we are influenced by others and if everyone around us is b@tching then we may unconsciously start to believe b@tching is the right way to go.
One can describe what their spouse is doing and then spin it two ways. Both may be venting, but one may be saying I am frustrated but I will be patient because it is a symptom of his suffering. and the other say he's an SOB for what he is doing.
It's all about our attitude.
Last edited by job; 10/08/1611:28 AM. Reason: edited language
Hmm. I find most people here are not easily influenced by others. In fact, I see the opposite sort of people. I see people who knew something was off with their spouses and were looking for the ways to help. When we have told any "real" person what our spouses are doing and said we are standing, most of us have been scoffed at and told to "move on" and yet we did not. I describe us as the "loyal to the finish" and "against all odds" variety.
When I see downtrodden posts, I find myself empathizing. And then, the way it influences me is to reassure the person for standing under such trying conditions. I don't see it as influencing me to be negative. I see this as a safe, non judgmental place to voice very deep, dark concerns that no one in the real world understands. So I read it and say: oh, I can validate that feeling and post something to lift this person up as I see he/she is going through something very difficult.
As for speaking negatively about our spouses, I think in this instance people are discussing hating the behavior but loving the person. There are many people here who have faced incredible circumstances. Some spouses have done some, or even all, of the following: maxed out credit cards, spent inheritances/savings, turned to outside men/women for validation of their feelings, sought relief through drugs and/or abandoned their families entirely.
I don't think any of us here condone the behaviors. We are trying to cope with the behaviors to which our spouses turn. And yet we are here working through all the emotions we have (which are real and valid) and yet we still hold on to love, hope, faith and sympathy.
And yes, attitude is important. However, I am sorry to say this view can also be very simplistic and border on blaming the victim (the LBS). There are many, many people here who have shown tremendous compassion and kindness throughout and yet their spouses remained lost. Reading someone's signature is not going to tell you who is successful and who is not. You have to know the whole story and watch the whole journey.
Many MLCers choose not to return because THEY cannot face what they have done. The LBS can forgive it, the MLCer cannot. The signature cannot reflect the complexity inherent in true MLC.
Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13 BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room" 8/15: H back to MBR 10/15: H back in dorm room 1/18: H files, now divorced
The original intention of this thread may have been hijacked but it is an interesting conversation. I had some thoughts when reading through this and hereare some points I would like to add, in no particular order:
# someone who stood for their M but failed to save it have not necessarily failed. They could have been textbook dbers and not achieved this objective. There are many aspects beyond our control that influence the outcome. This is not making excuses for the lbs, but I wanted to say was that someone here who has stood but still divorced can have a wealth of knowledge and insight to share with others on how to save their M. Most vets here who didn't save their M give very pro saving M advice. # someone who has stood and endured the immense mental turmoil that can inflict and eventually call it a day should not be judged. If we accept any kind of behavior yes maybe more would stay" married" but never be happy.That is giving up on life, which is worse IMO. # of course the lbs can greatly influence the direction and possibly the outcome of these crisis. Many sabotage their own efforts by their actions and/or behavior. Sometime the lbs can only manage to put one foot in front of the other and cannot control the manner of doing so. Basically there are times where all we do us get through it the best we can. # IMO reading all the stories here and how the lbs suffers does affect us. Yes we feel empathy and compassion. Yes it makes us feel good to know weare understood and not alone. BUT there is an undeniable negative influence too. We lose hope when day after day we read the struggles of others, and their despair. It does affect our outlook and optimism at times. # many of those who have saved their M have expressed being lucky because X, Y or Z occurred in their spouse that influenced their return. The Open being a scumbag for example. Sometimes it is a circumstance that helped achieve the reconciliation. # the lbs is not powerless and should not think so. Neither are we super heros that can do anything we need a non defeatist attitude but within realistic limits. # it is hard to get past the resentment and hurt, but it is the best way to give us the best chance to save our M. No one wants to be with as resentful angry person. Respect, compassion, empathy and gratitude are much better allies in this battle and inlife.
Best wishes
R 25 years M 14 years S11 & S13 Working on it alone since Oct 2014 M in trouble a lot earlier (~2 years) Feb 2016. 1st R chat in a yr. Next R chat Aug'17 Still together
Hmm. I find most people here are not easily influenced by others. In fact, I see the opposite sort of people. I see people who knew something was off with their spouses and were looking for the ways to help. When we have told any "real" person what our spouses are doing and said we are standing, most of us have been scoffed at and told to "move on" and yet we did not. I describe us as the "loyal to the finish" and "against all odds" variety.
When I see downtrodden posts, I find myself empathizing. And then, the way it influences me is to reassure the person for standing under such trying conditions. I don't see it as influencing me to be negative. I see this as a safe, non judgmental place to voice very deep, dark concerns that no one in the real world understands. So I read it and say: oh, I can validate that feeling and post something to lift this person up as I see he/she is going through something very difficult.
As for speaking negatively about our spouses, I think in this instance people are discussing hating the behavior but loving the person. There are many people here who have faced incredible circumstances. Some spouses have done some, or even all, of the following: maxed out credit cards, spent inheritances/savings, turned to outside men/women for validation of their feelings, sought relief through drugs and/or abandoned their families entirely.
I don't think any of us here condone the behaviors. We are trying to cope with the behaviors to which our spouses turn. And yet we are here working through all the emotions we have (which are real and valid) and yet we still hold on to love, hope, faith and sympathy.
And yes, attitude is important. However, I am sorry to say this view can also be very simplistic and border on blaming the victim (the LBS). There are many, many people here who have shown tremendous compassion and kindness throughout and yet their spouses remained lost. Reading someone's signature is not going to tell you who is successful and who is not. You have to know the whole story and watch the whole journey.
Many MLCers choose not to return because THEY cannot face what they have done. The LBS can forgive it, the MLCer cannot. The signature cannot reflect the complexity inherent in true MLC.
Beautifully said WaHoo! I agree with every word.
I think if you believe that you will do everything right and it will work you are oversimplifying things. Also I feel it is unfair to claim that some marriages fail as a result of the behaviour of the LBS (post BD I mean). I think relationships are 50:50 the responsibility of both parties, but when we face a MLC maybe you will do everything right and it will not work, because your spouse is "done with the marriage". Maybe you will do nothing right, but they will come out of the fog and it will work. I don't think anyone here has a crystal ball to predict how things will turn out. I offered my H EVERYTHING to make him reconsider, from a "break" so that he can sleep around, to an open marriage. Even a part-time arrangement, him keeping his bachelor pad and visiting us in the weekend. And space, and time and ANYTHING he wanted as long as he didn't disrupt my children's life. Did any of it get through? No. All I managed to get is some time that the law allows me before he can file. I might even stretch that to the maximum and hope that he will be through his MLC by then. And I look better than I did in the last five years. And I work on myself, the house, my career. And his family adore me, and I am a good mother to our kids. And I've been very kind to him for the last 7 months, with only a few angry days lately. And he is still not interested. So even though I agree that some actions make things easier or worse, I think accusing the LBS for the MLCer not coming out of his crisis sooner is like accusing the wife of a man with a broken leg for her husband spending longer in physio than they should. Yes we can have a positive impact, but somethings things will happen regardless of how well we DBed..
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
