To answer your questions, to my knowledge, she has not been diagnosed with BPD, but it has been indicated by a couple therapists with whom we have both met. I suspect she has, but would never admit it to me.
WRT letting her go, it 8s difficult for me, as I still have feelings for her and the plans and dreams of a future together have been crushed. We spent a lot of time together (all 6 of us) as a family and she and I had many good times together too. I know there was a lot missing in our marriage, but that doesn't stop me from missing the time together.
Clay-- thanks. I know how difficult it is, as I'm trying to let go of my BPD W. She hasn't had an official diagnosis, as she doesn't want help at all and doesn't like therapists. But her pattern of behavior fits BPD well, along with other co-occurring issues, including a lot of anxiety and some depression. Underneath it all, though, is a very loving, kind and fun person. She always said medical treatment of her conditions would rob her of her personality. I never believed it. She's instead abusing marijuana, which I think does actually affect her judgment and other mental processes.
My IC has said her BPD-based way of loving me could have also made such an impression that it makes the heartbreak doubly painful. I think there a lot of truth that, especially in the beginning of the relationship when a BPD person is rapturous with you, and you fall so hard for her too. Then you fall in love kind of like a BPD person, and less so in a more normal way. The way your W loved you -- when she wasn't exploding in anger at you -- might be one reason it's so hard for you to let her go, even after all the painful ending of your marriage.
Just a thought, from a fellow person touched by BPD...
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
p.s. I understand the impulse to want to tell the BPD sufferer what they have, and that they need treatment. But everything I've read says that's just futile and counter-productive. Search the web for "Anosognosia and Getting a Borderline into Therapy", and work by Dr. Amador. According to Amador, the only way to get a BPD into treatment is to win their trust and through incredible gentle and humble persuasion, which takes years, if not decades.
So yeah, I think writing a letter to your ex telling her what she is doing wrong ... is likely pointless (and legally problematic, as JRuss pointed out). Dr. Amador says it's not that the mentally ill are in denial. Denial means a person knows the truth yet willfully shoves it aside. Dr. Amador says research has shown that the mentally ill simply do not see their illness. They cannot deny what they do not see.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
I agree with ForGump. Clay, as to your comments that you can't understand, how some people fight like that, it's just that you are getting railroaded and your Ex is taking you for everything that she can. You have to protect yourself and also what I came to realize is that when I stood up to the W, she was mad, but respected me a whole lot more afterwards.
Women want someone who stands up to them, who dominates them. That's likely the reason they often fall prey to scumbag OMs.
I agree with everyone that I need to stand up for myself, which is what I'm doing, but I disagree that she will respect it. The women in her family (her grandma, mother, aunt, cousin) wear the pants and the men are as she calls them "doormats". I think in addition to her personality issues is the fact that the women in her family are controlling and people like her grandpa, uncle, brother, etc are more submissive and I don't think she was used to that. She has often said " I think you have a problem with women", but I am realizing how that that is most likely projection based on the way she has seen men treated.
I know I have mentioned before that our son stole some money from me last summer (2015) and has for the last year not put much effort into getting a job. Last week I stopped by one of the fast-food places where he has supposedly applied, but wasn't hired to ask the manager what she was looking for and what tips I could give my son so he could come back in and get a job. She was going to take his name, but I told her I wanted him to do it himself, so I didn't give it to her. I e-mailed ExW the next day to let her know that I spoke with the manager who said she is always hiring and for him to go back in and ask for her. I told ExW that I am tired of the excuses and that he needs to get off his butt and get a job. I thought I might get a little support, as she has had a pleasant streak lately, but she just let me have it. She continued to make excuses for him and said "The failure and rejections have been absolutely confidence-crushing, and all his father cares about is the money and whether he's "trying hard enough." Then she told me to leave her and the kids alone.
She went on to say many other nasty things and I was tempted to respond, but have hesitated even though she was dead wrong about many of the things she said, and I know she was just waiting for me to take the bait (at least that's what I think). I know a lot of what she said was projection, but it is still frustrating to sit here and not respond (thanks to all of you for letting me vent on here).
Our son will be eighteen in exactly two months and has absolutely no plan. He gets upset when I talk to him about it. I do not think he is in any way prepared to live on his own. I am sure if I tell him he can't live here, ExW or her parents will take him in and continue enabling him. I have threatened for the last year to cut off his phone, but have been told by him that he will not be able to get a job without it. At this point, the excuse has gotten old and I am seriously considering doing it tomorrow, but I know I will catch hell from ExW and both of my youngest kids. Anyone else have experiences like this?
My kids are way younger, so they are not able to work, as they are in preschool still.
But, your son is at an age he is not old enough to be an adult and old enough not to be a child. It is a complicated time...
Given the fact he is not even 18, I would have a talk with him and give him some boundaries. I am guessing but from your post I do not recall that he is still in school, so if he is not in school I would give him some deadlines...
1. If he is not in school and taking classes, he should start making a contribution to the household from the time he turns 18. I would start with his phone. His excuse is lame at best. So I would put him on notice that he is to take care of his phone bill starting from the first bill after he turns 18. I would have a talk with him where I would reiterate my love for him and that he is becoming a man, and a big part of him being a man is being able to take care of himself. What if he had a family? A young child? Perhaps this would be the kick in the pants he needs to realize an education is important or he will realize that a minimum pay job flipping burgers or busing tables will be his reality. I would not mention him stealing money, but time for some tough love is nigh. In essence time to DB him some...
He is homeschooled, but will be taking his final test through the state next weekend and will be completely finished with school after that. He doesn't even want to do the burger flipping jobs. Why would he want to work when his mom won't do it and he sees all these things come in for free?
Since his mom will not work, a vocational evaluation has been ordered. I have to pay the money up-front ($2400) and she will have to reimburse me. I am worried because she always manages to manipulate and even though she should have been held accountable, she always seems to get away with the things she does. She has now cost me more than $27,000 in attorney's fees all because she wanted to fight. i tried to get her to reconcile, but she wouldn't. the courts should have ordered her to pay my fees, but these judges don't have the guts to do it.
You have a complicated, messy, situation, and I cannot presume to give solid advice. But here's just an idea to consider:
Given that you are very likely dealing w/ someone who has a serious mental health disorder ... (1) you may want to be really careful about engaging this person in a rational fight about your divorce conditions. If her BPD is real and intense, you are battling her emotional demons, not a rational person.
(2) Your son's situation sounds very messy, and can complicate your divorce process. Can you pause your involvement in that issue, and sort it out AFTER the divorce? Your son's character/personality issue is not something that can be changed in a few months with some prodding. It's likely going to take a long time.
Like I said, just ideas. I hope you have a counselor, and a few good and wise friends who can help you navigate this. It sounds awful.
Me: 50, MLC/WW 45 Young kids Nov 2015: BD1 Apr 2016: BD2 Jan 2017: W filed Feb 2017: D final
