Thank you for telling your story. I am going to respect your wishes and not comment or offer advice. Best of luck to you on your journey, Andrew. Continue to look within even when it's hard....that's the way to peace.
uRworthy - Thank you for the visit and the good wishes. I will indeed continue my journey including continued deep self-examination. The friend that I visited with yesterday made a point of mentioning that I am much stronger than I have been. I still have a long way to go.
I feel that both W and I have a lot of baggage that we're dragging along with us as my story illustrates that will need to be dealt with as part of building a stronger MR if she does indeed come back. I'll need support from here and will absolutely have lots of questions then and we'll both need support from professionals, friends and family.
Minor journaling.
I still don't know where W is on her own journey. I reconnected to Facebook without fanfare this morning and noticed her making a kind comment on an update from one of my cousins that she doesn't know well but quite likes. Perhaps she's coming out of the tunnel? No way to tell. It's good that she's still looking at / caring about my side of the family. In the last month or so she's seemed to be posting less about angst and a drinking / vacationing lifestyle and engaging more with past friends including my own relatives.
My own post this morning was of the decorating I did of our front door using tall wild grasses and wildflowers. I feel very proud of how our home looks. I will confess here that I hope that W does as well. It's had favourable feedback from D24 which is nice because it was her home as well.
One advantage I hope of the Facebook break is that I'm going to try to reduce my visits to that platform. After BD2 especially I obsessed like many of us do over what she was doing, what she could possibly be thinking. My "Confessions of a Failed Mind Reader" thread tells everything that's needed to be know about how bad of an idea that was for me.
Anyhoodles - back on the bike. Time to make my lunch and perhaps think about dinner. It's a fairly nice day today and I may take in a walk around the village since I'm working from home today. I haven't done that in a couple of weeks due to illness etc.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
Ditto what Urworthy posted. I will respect your wishes. I hope that everything works out for you and that whatever goals you have for yourself are achieved.
"The difficulties of Life are intended to make us BETTER,not bitter". "Fear is a prison, where you are the jailer. FREE YOURSELF!" "Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B." - Jack3Beans
Ditto what Urworthy posted. I will respect your wishes. I hope that everything works out for you and that whatever goals you have for yourself are achieved.
Thank you eric. I do hope that you're not writing me off as a lost cause / too stubborn to understand. I've valued your input.
It is unfortunate that yesterday's dialogue spun out of control and I certainly bear a large portion of the responsibility for that. If I offended you (or others) I do sincerely apologise. Since I know that you, along with Mach1 and others who were trying to help have been down even bumpier roads than I am on I hope you look at what I wrote from my side of the screen and understand that I was indeed trying to understand what was being told. I was just unable to. It wasn't because I was being devious, or prevaricating, I just didn't get it. My own responses seemed to be being ignored or picked to pieces and treated as nonsense or me trying to hide from the truth. As I tried to explain myself with increasingly detailed responses the conversation spiraled out of control. Please know that in real life that only happens to me when the other person is not listening and talks over top of me. I had a conversation with my first IC (who fired me) which spiraled out of control in this fashion when she insisted that I tell her how often I would yell at, demean and beat my W. Yes - she was sure that I - a man who has never raised a finger against any woman was beating my wife. When I protested she would just repeat her demand louder over top of my words. I had to stop the conversation and ask her to respect me and give me an opportunity to speak without interruption. At that point she told me that she was completely unable to help me, requested immediate payment and told me that I could come back if I wanted but that she didn't see any point in it because I would not admit to my (non-existent) violence problem. To this day I have no idea how she got that idea and neither does my W when I related the story to her. My current IC is much better and did tell me that my first IC is known to not be successful with male clients.
When I write here I try to write the complete unvarnished truth even when and I hope especially when it is not flattering to myself. It may look like I'm trying to hide behind my words but that is never my intention. I hope that in future dialogues that all sides will carefully listen respectfully and consider what is being written by everyone. When the inevitable mis-understandings happen I hope we can resolve them in a collaborative fashion rather than confrontational.
Not everyone will interpret the written word the same way. As Rose888 once wrote, we all see other people's situations through the lenses of our own. What is obvious to one person from their own perspective and experience may be completely incomprehensible to another. While there certainly are similarities, every situation is in fact unique with different people and different dynamics.
I do hope that when I do have questions or you see me straying down the wrong path in the dark forest through the fog that you give me a whack. I am indeed a slow learner and have difficulty at times understanding what people are trying to tell me and you seem to have a gift for breaking it down into simple words that I can understand.
Thank you again.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I'll take the bait. I read that entire post. I feel sorry for you. Sounds like your wife was a real piece of work. I'm surprised you did not leave her long ago. How did you manage for 27 years?? Seems like she is 95% to blame. One suggestion I would have is to go back and reread all the "nonsense" from yesterday and then go reread that long post you wrote.
Anyway, one aspect was kind of similar to my situation (in a slight way). What do you think your wife thought of your scheduled Sunday sex sessions? Do you think she would call it making love as you did?
I'll take the bait. I read that entire post. I feel sorry for you. Sounds like your wife was a real piece of work. I'm surprised you did not leave her long ago. How did you manage for 27 years?? Seems like she is 95% to blame. One suggestion I would have is to go back and reread all the "nonsense" from yesterday and then go reread that long post you wrote.
Anyway, one aspect was kind of similar to my situation (in a slight way). What do you think your wife thought of your scheduled Sunday sex sessions? Do you think she would call it making love as you did?
pinn - Thanks for stopping by and for your question. Yes I have re-read yesterday's dialogue and I certainly take responsibility for how it spiraled out of control. This is the third time that this has happened on this forum where I've felt under attack by what seems like repeated strikes with the same 2X4. I wonder at times if I'm suited for the online life.
I wouldn't say that my W was a "real piece of work". It's very difficult in a forum like this to give the depth of a person. She was a kind and loving woman with a great strength of character. She cared deeply for me. If she were to write something similar about me, I'm sure the same sort of comment could be made about me being a similar "piece of work". I don't want to point the fingers of blame at anyone in particular much less 95% of it depending on what we're trying to blame anyone for. We are all flawed creatures - after all, we're put together in the dark by amateurs so you can't expect perfection. Where I was trying to go with what I wrote was to write about our MR from the perspective of who dominated, who made decisions and how we dealt with that one facet of our MR. W very much was in control of much of our life and generally I went along with it. I do honestly believe that she would agree with this statement.
WRT to the Sunday sex - I am quite confident that for probably 3/4 or more of the time she regarded it as duty sex right from soon after we were engaged. Something that she was obliged to do as a dutiful wife in order to keep me happy. I would do my utmost to be a gentle and considerate lover and try to get her aroused and interested in the process but to be honest only succeeded in that a small handful of times in a year. It never seemed to be a matter of interest to her to actually get aroused either. Given romantic opportunities such as trips or staying in nice hotels, me coming back from a long trip, or something special happening in our lives never made any difference to her. For her sex was Sunday morning - if she didn't have her period and if she felt up to it.
Her low desire started soon after we moved in together. Whether the prior great sex was part of her using sex as a tool to manipulate me me or not and once she'd landed me as a fiance she felt no more need to work on it, I can't say but do believe the answer is yes. She absolutely would use sex to manipulate me and get her own way in a number of instances. W also has always had pain and mobility issues that complicated things and undoubtedly contributed to her low desire.
In later years the problems with our sex life was compounded by the fact that I would often drink to excess on Saturday nights (6 or 8 beer) making me a less than appealing lover in addition to my increasing weight. I would get up first, take care of the dog and cats to decrease the chance of being interrupted, shave (sometimes shower) and clean my teeth but the fact remains that I was sometimes slightly hung over and would at times even smell of stale beer. With my increasing weight and age plus the alcohol consumption impotence would be a problem a handful of times. We'd laugh and joke and she'd say that I got a "participation ribbon" for trying. I would only ever get one chance to try and she would only make minimal efforts to arouse me. I was expected to be ready to go after some basic affection and get the job done with as quickly as possible.
I may well be wrong (and often am) but I do honestly believe that our sex life wasn't what drove her towards OM. It never seemed to be important to her, just another chore to be done. Whether she got me to the finish line or not never seemed to be a priority for her although in the last couple of years she did start making more of an effort. I do think that she just wanted to get it over with.
If she had stayed and I was still the AndrewP who drank a lot of beer on Saturdays and weighed 270lbs I suspect that the Sunday morning sex thing would have continued it's trend of being less and less frequent and perhaps have stopped by now. I also believe that she wouldn't miss it and would be relieved. I remember telling her soon after we met and I noticed her pain and mobility issues (she has bursitis in her hips) that sex wasn't as important to me as she was and that she didn't have to do it.
If W does chose to come back to her thinner, more sober husband I full expect that sex will continue to not be a priority for her and I will just have to accept that which I will.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I had a long post all typed out but I think it may not have gone over well. So I'll respect your wishes as well.
So I'll just say this... remember the convo yesterday and you saying that you had no idea what else might be an issue (basically that was the jist)?? Maybe start with your above post and dissect that?? Best part is that its your own words. Research what 'duty sex' does to the partner, how it makes them feel, how to get of that cycle etc etc etc... By the way, there were about 5-6 other flags in your long post that I would really think about if I were you. But I'll let you look into that if you care to do so. They are all right there.
pinn - I realized as soon as I read your post that you weren't "taking the bait" - you were in fact leaving it to try to resurrect the prior discussion. I fully expected a response like yours this morning which is why I started up the computer to respond.
On your side can I please ask you to look up autism spectrum disorder and INTJ personality types? These describe me. Many emotional or "look within yourself" vague (to me) references just plain don't work with people like me. To me, this all smacks of "blame the victim". Again, please try to see this from my side of the screen. I have always been completely honest in what I write. The lengthy posts are not to justify myself, it's to explore my feelings and the history that I have and try to explain as best I can to you and others what is going on in my head and in my life.
I also did see the seemingless meaningless posts by others at the beginning of the thread where they were all saying "I'm telling you that I'm not talking to you" just like a bunch of teenage girls who are making a point of shunning someone that they've cast out. It's no good unless they know that they're being shunned after all. I chose to take the high road there and be polite to each and every person and not take their bait. I could have mis-interpreted that after all.
I am here to heal, to learn, and to release. Yes, I am a slow learner especially on picking up emotional cues.
So - even though my repeated comments that I do not in fact understand are interpreted as me being dense - which I am - or resistant to looking within myself I'm going to ask one last time - please - please - spell it out for me. What is it that you want me to admit to that I've not already admitted to. I'm not a perfect person, none of us are. Yes, I lack emotional intelligence and empathy is difficult for me. I make more of an effort and try harder because of that. Yes, I can be dismissive, pompous and arrogant.
What have I missed here.
If in fact the intent of these posts is to publicly shame and shun me - then so be it.
I have noticed on this forum and others related to other topics that I've participated in the past that they go through cycles as different dominant personalities pass through. Right now on newcomers we have someone posting to everyone who will listen that they need to reveal their W's affair to the public, shame her, start dating to make her jealous and then slap her with a D and then she'll run right back. This is counter to most of what MWD writes and I hate to think how many people are following that advice. Heck, he even dug up an old open thread of mine and told me to do the same thing. When I politely rejected his advice he told me that I was doomed to live forever alone because no woman respects a cuckold.
For a while both Newcomers and MLC were a place of kindness and healing and helped me a lot. People like Jack_3_Beans, job and yes - even eric listened to me, gave me good actionable advice and were very patient with me. That seems to have shifted again and it makes me very sad.
On BD H52, W50 T27, M26 S21, D23 BD-9-Mar-16 D-15-Jan-18 Final-19-Apr-18 I am a storyteller. The story may do you no good. But a story is never for the listener. It is always for the one who tells
I spelled something out that you may want to think about in the post right above this one. No response required.,, but something for you to think about,
Andrew, when people try to spell it out, you accuse them of being schoolyard bullies or trolls.
It was only in the last thread that I realized you were probably on the spectrum. You might want to include that more prominently in your recitation of your story. I think it explains a lot, both about your relationship with your wife and your interactions here.
The gentlest way I can think to point it out in a straightforward way that you might understand is to say, "you mention that you compensate for your lack of emotional intelligence. I don't think you are compensating as well as you think you are. If you want a good marriage or romantic relationship in the future, you might want to work on your emotional intelligence compensating skills some more, now, without waiting for your wife to come back. You should seek a counselor who is experienced with social skills coaching for people on the spectrum."
Me: 44 H: 44 Kids: 20, 16, 16, and 10 Together/Married: 22 years H announced he was emotionally detached and considering D: 4/4/16 H announced he is going to try to stay and reconnect: 5/1/16
Where I was trying to go with what I wrote was to write about our MR from the perspective of who dominated, who made decisions and how we dealt with that one facet of our MR. W very much was in control of much of our life and generally I went along with it. I do honestly believe that she would agree with this statement.