Taking the first step...

[Coly23]

Hi Job, AndrewP, Jer2911, fightOn and Altair, thanks so much for your posts especially your examples of your H's and W's not sleeping. I am comforted (in a strange way) to know it's just not us LBS's who suffer from insomnia! I expect if my H had FB and I actually bothered to post anything he would see me up at all times of the night/ early morning!

If they feel so guilty about what they have done why does it take them such a long time to contact us or process what they have done? Is it because through that guilt they still feel justified?

It's interesting because it got me thinking that when I first met H he had lived on his own in a very small studio flat. He had trouble sleeping then and could only fall asleep with the TV on! He said he thought it was because he was lonely and had too much time in his own company. I can imagine if he is feeling guilty as well he definitely won't be sleeping much in his own bed!

Job - I've heard that there are three types of MLCers - drop-outs, drop-ins and droplets. Would you be able to advise what the difference is. I think I understand that the drop-out just goes and doesn't contact at all?

AndrewP, it's always great to hear from you, please keep posting! I am currently catching up on your threads over here so will be over to your pad once i know what's been going on in your sich!

Altair - fancy seeing you here! It actually is ok going dark. I think I prefer it to seeing him every now and again. It just brings it all back when he leaves. I saw over on your thread that you have seen him a few more times?

[job]

Depressed people don't move or think as quickly as we do. They feel shame and guilt for what they are doing and yet, they continue to do the things that they are doing. You have to remember, that in their minds, we and the relationships are the problems and we are creating the unhappiness that they are experiencing. Coly, it takes years for this stuff to bubble up to the surface because it has been stuffed way down into their souls and when something triggers the crisis...that is when it begins to come to the surface and it will take a few years before they can actually work through their issues. These people have been stunted emotionally and they have to go back to that period of time and face those issues in order to grow up. We didn't grow up over night and neither will they.

Again depressed people tend to isolate themselves from others and since depression is the main ingredient of the crisis, in my opinion, this is one of the reasons that they tend to avoid contact w/us because they do not want to be reminded of what they've done and/or doing to us at this time. Also, they can see the pain and disappointment in our eyes, faces and the tone of our voices...another reason they tend to disappear a bit.

There are three types of mlcers:
1. Drop-in. This is the mlcer that continues to come to the home, most likely on a daily basis or every couple of days. They have dinner, sit around w/the children and just visit like old times.

2. Droplet. This is the mlcer who comes to home or visits w/you periodically. They may come by every couple of weeks or months. They don't make a habit of being at your residence all of the time like drop-in does.

Continue reading up on MLC and depression. Keep the focus on you as much as possible.

3. Dropout. This is the mlcer who walks out the door and you never hear from him or see him again for a very, very long time. No contact at all. They ride off into the sunset never to be seen or heard from again by you or family.

[Altair]

Thank you job for this. It was very helpful for me to hear today. And, of course, what DB coach and IC are saying too. That said, I think I'm ready to bring my bags over to the MLC forum. I could see this taking years-- exactly what you said job-- because it bubbled up and he has so much work to do (as do I). I've slowly accepting this is going to be a long haul, whatever that means. OK! well I'll make my own thread.
Hugs to all.
P.S. Coly, I saw him on Monday. Every day for the past 2 weeks he TMs to see how I am. No future plans (and I am not pursuing)

[Coly23]

Thanks Job, that does sound like my H, stuffing all his emotions deep down. He never liked to talk about his feelings or tell me if there was anything I did that annoyed him. He just put up with it silently to my detriment.

And I think he is a droplet for sure as he doesn't come over very much. How does this effect their ability to come back for good? I assume a drop-in is more likely to make a smoother return or does it not make a difference?

Altair, so glad you are coming over here and interesting that H is in contact with you every day. I wonder if he feels your famililiarity is a comfort to him....

I will continue to read as much as possible Job. I actually feel coming on to this board has already been a great help. Thank you!

[job]

I had to sit back and think about the "drops" as I posted about three "drops" years ago. I found it interesting that someone would ask about them after all of this time.

Your h will determine whether he wants to reconcile or not and it doesn't matter which "drop" he is. If he wakes up and truly wants to do the hard, necessary work, then he'll attempt to reconcile w/you. Ultimately, you will be the one to decide if you want to reconcile or not. Why? Because there is always a chance that you've moved on and don't want to be involved w/him again, i.e., too much damage or he's changed so much from his crisis that you don't like the person he is at that time, you may very well have changed too and may be far happier living your life and not having him in it. Time will tell....but that's a long way down the road and you truly need to only focus on today and how you spend your time living your life.

Keep the focus on you! Leave your h in the man upstairs hands.

[Coly23]

Thanks Job. I have been trawling through all 400 odd posts on this board and came across the three types if MLC'r's. I just thought it was really interesting and I actually thought that there were a larger number who fall into the drop-in category. I dont know what you think of that observation?

Journaling - so it's been two weeks since neither myself nor my D have had any contact with H. I just wonder what he makes of our silence, whether it is worrying him or if he really doesn't care? Who knows!

I had my second telephone counselling session yesterday. I was determined to not cry but blubbered as soon as she started talking. What I've got from this so far is that I have a lot of unanswered questions and this is what is causing my anxiety. Although H told me he didn't love me anymore because he didn't feel we had anything in common, nothing to talk about etc I still don't know why? Also he seems to be either sitting on the fence about whether he wants to work in the M or is he just gaslighting me so as not to hurt me anymore than he has?

However, I have done a lot of self analysis and realise that I was very codependent in th R and also can be quite critical but I don't know for sure if these are the same faults that H finds in me as he would never talk to me. I think the C is pushing me towards the path of confronting H once and for all but I'm not going to initiate anything.

Sins good news. I got a much wanted promotion yesterday and I was so excited the first thing I wanted to do was call H as he would be so proud of me. We would have gone out celebrating tonight if we were still together.... :0(

[Coly23]

*Some good news, not sin!!

[AndrewP]

Journaling - so it's been two weeks since neither myself nor my D have had any contact with H. I just wonder what he makes of our silence, whether it is worrying him or if he really doesn't care? Who knows!

Frustrating isn't it. I'm not making light of your situation - just sympathizing. I think you'll agree with me that "the silence is deafening".

Sins good news. I got a much wanted promotion yesterday and I was so excited the first thing I wanted to do was call H as he would be so proud of me. We would have gone out celebrating tonight if we were still together.... :0(

I'll raise a glass of wine to your good fortune tonight.

I think Coly23 that one thing that we both struggle with is that we're trying to understand what our spouse is doing as if they were a reasonable, rational person. We're applying "tactics" and "techniques" in a hope that they'll have some sort of effect in getting them to wake up and want to reconnect. You're maybe in the stage I was a while ago where you are still looking for answers and logic. In the homework is the "Musing from AmyC" http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2253741#Post2253741 which I presume you've read through. It was quite the eye-opener for me.

What it boiled down to and what I'm working on accepting is:
- They're on their own journey
- They can't be expected to behave rationally or like their old selves
- We can't have any positive impact on them but we can push them farther into the tunnel
- Even though these things seem to follow a regular pattern and script there's no guarantee that our specific spouses are following it
- There is no timeline we can look to for when they'll come out of it. Some never do.
- If you want to have sympathy for them just think that even though we're going through a tough time it's probably nothing compared to what they're going through.

But! It's not all gloom. You've gotten a promotion, I'm not sure what time zone you are in but it's got to be the weekend soon and you and D can relax and maybe celebrate a bit yourselves.

I know exactly what you mean about wanting to share your good fortune with your H - I struggle regularly on that. In the one letter I wrote to W after she left (which had no noticeable impact - no reply even) I wrote how I wanted to share the joys I've been able to find and to comfort her when she's feeling down. I'm fortunate at least that I have S22/D24 to reach out to over the miles. D24 is a fabulous cheer-leader and always there with an electronic hug. S22 gives great hugs in person but I have to go to him.

Take care my friend.

[job]

Andrew,

That was an excellent posting and it is really spot on!

Coly, you are now on your own journey and time is on your side...use it wisely. Congratulations on the promotion! I know that you would love to ring your h up and tell him about it...and you might be able to share the good news down the road.

Have you had time to read up on male depression? Did you know that depression can be different for men and women? It's not about sitting around and not being able to get out of bed or off the couch, it's a really bad place to be in and the sadness and the feeling of being so lost and feeling unworthy of love, etc., does take its tool on them. They find nothing in life to be joyous about. However, they will try different things to make themselves feel better. Once the "feel good" feeling is gone, they start searching again. The internal pain is terrible. Just because we can't see the wounds doesn't mean that they aren't hurting.

As I mentioned earlier, time is on your side. Use it wisely...spend time w/your D and celebrate your promotion. Some day soon, you'll feel so much better and hopefully you will discover some new interests that will help you relieve the stress, anger and hurt.

As for your h being concerned w/your silence...he's not thinking about it. In fact, he most likely is relieved that he doesn't have to any contact w/family right now. He doesn't want to hear the hurt and pain in your voices. But, I can assure you, he will contact you when he's good and ready...they always do. It may not be tomorrow or next week, you will hear from him.

[Coly23]

Thanks AndrewP and Job! Thank you both for your congratulations! Unfortunately no one is available to celebrate with me this weekend, even D is out at a party! :0(. Like you say Job, I really hope one day I will be able to celebrate with H!

Job - I've had a look at the male depression thread now and I found if really interesting. Looking back and after writing the timeline of events since we got married I think my H started showing signs of mild depression after he had to resigned from his job before he was pushed. Coupled with the fact that it took much longer than expected to find another one really knocked his confidence sad self esteem. To make matters worse at the time in order to claim job seekers allowance he had to go to the benefits office every two weeks to prove he was applying for jobs and they treated him like a layabout who didn't want to work.

I really should have supported him more and instead I took advantage of him being at home at expected him to do all the chores. :0(

Also I think H has always had self esteem issues and I think that's why he spent a lot of his time by himself. I remember asking one of his friends years ago why he wasn't married (way before we got together!) and apparently it was because he didn't ever feel he had anything to offer anyone. That's why none of this makes sense or maybe it makes more sense....?

Your right about H probably not wanting to see me and D upset although we have both been very upbeat, especially D, whenever we see him. I think one of the other reasons he hasn't been in contact could be because him and his friends have been arranging to go away on a golfing trip during the Ryder Cup. So they play golf and then watch the game whilst drinking copious amounts of alcohol! It's been booked for nearly a year so I can imagine how excited they are. A lot of work goes into it as they get into teams repressing the US and Europe and play against each other. They even have team shirts! I really hope H has a fantastic time!

AndrewP - you are right the silence is deafening and sometimes the message is loud and clear - 'you aren't important anymore!' :0(. That's hard to swallow..

I've given up the tactics and games to make him notice me. The NC is really for me because it was upsetting me whenever I texted him and he wouldn't respond for hours/days or when he came over it hurt all over again when he left. However I must admit I hope it helps him to miss me just a little bit. Also with this promotion a month ago I would have posted it to FB, although I don't post very much and he doesn't have an account, in the hope that one if his friends would see it and tell him. But now I'm just not really that bothered.

Anyway I hope you all have a lovely weekend! Just realised I have no wine in the house so can't celebrate in my own either! It is better this way for fear of sending drunken messages to H especially as I don't have anyone to restrain me!