Confused on What to Do 2

[Eagle11]

Eric,
I want you to know that I have read all of your posts you wrote me. I appreciate the time and effort you have given to help me. I really do.

Also, I want to thank AndrewP for the links. I will catch up with Eric's story tomorrow and over the weekend.

Just to confirm, I believe you are still a stay at home dad – right?

That is correct. Been a stay at home dad since October of 2010. My S6 was about 10 months old when we moved to FL from AZ. My W had gotten a better paying job and we talked it over and decided I would stay home. He went to daycare when we lived in AZ.

Question: What type of work/income did you have in your 1st marriage and when you and your W were dating? Did you ever establish a career? From your post I gathered that you have been a stay at home dad since 2010. Correct?

I had a steady job during my 1st marriage. It was my first job out of college (I actually started it while still in college). The pay was good for being in my early 20's. My 1st W and I made about the same money. It was a job I stayed at until my current W and I moved to AZ in 2006 when she got a job opportunity there. Once we moved there I didn't find quite as good a job, but I did have a steady job until we moved to FL and became a stay at home dad.

Question: What was your childhood like?

Childhood was ok. No major drama during my childhood. Lived with my mom, dad and sister. Typical middle class family in the town where my mom grew up in. I was always a quiet/shy kid and struggled I feel with self confidence. I had friends but didn't really like to hang out with many of them after school. I was a loner most of the time when not in school.

In my early 20's (during my 1st marriage) I found out the guy I called dad wasn't really my dad. I have actually never met my real dad. I guess he got my mom pregnant while he was in college and didn't want a kid so he split. I alwasys suspected the dad who raised me wasn't my real dad but I was never told anything until one day my sister was in my parents filing cabinet looking for her birth certificate when she found a copy of mine and asked my mom why no father was listed on it. My mom calls me up to tell me. She said she figured I always knew, but she had never actually told me anything until I was in my 20's.

I was upset but like I said I always suspected it to be true. I have never had a desire to find my real dad. I don't want to know the man who left and never bothered to check up on me. I remember my mom told me his name, but I was so zoned out I don't even remember what she said and I have never asked her about it since that day.

I suspect that the result of your first W cheating on YOU was never really addressed. Having had someone cheat on me, I know how much of a hit ones self confidence takes. So I wonder, were you confident as a child? Did you self esteem issues as a kid? How did you handle the first divorce?

I guess I addressed the self esteem issues in answering the question above.

As for my first divorce. I was devastated when it happened. I was a mess. I remember being so depressed and I was going to a therapist who got me on some anti depressants. Part of my depression was I didn't know she was cheating on me until a couple of months after we separated. After I found out she was cheating on me I was very angry. I remember punching a hole in the wall and destroying a bunch of our wedding stuff (I was living at the house alone by this time, so she didn't know). It was my first love and I think her first love too, which might have made it harder.

Looking back, we didn't know what we were doing. We had just gotten out of college and were in love so we did what we thought we were supposed to do which is get married. They marriage was fine but I think immaturity and not understanding what it means to be married was what did us in. She actually ended up marrying the person she had the affair with and as far as I know they are still together with a couple of kids. I held a lot of anger towards her for a while but I forgive her now and I hope she would forgive me. If I saw her tomorrow, I would be fine with talking to her and wishing her the best.

I will say the problems in that 1st marriage were not really addressed. My 1st wife didn't talk to me about it and I think some of the problems my current wife has with me are similar to the first wife.

I dated a couple of women for a short time after the 1st marriage before meeting my current W. When I met my W for the first time I remember thinking that I better enjoy her while she is around, because she is way out of my league. I guess that will tell where my self confidence was at the time.

From where I sit…YOUR W is truly in a life crisis. So as hard as it is. I cannot stress enough HOW YOU MUST MAKE THIS, EVERY ACTION, EVERY DECISION…about YOU and what is GOOD for YOU and YOUR children. You must completely DETACH.
Your W has asked for a divorce 3 times, she has multiple OM, she has had EA’s, she has kissed one of the men (at least that you know of), by her own admission she has cheated in past relationships, she spends 1-2 hrs a day with the kids and even after all of this, she seems confused . This sounds to me like she is totally in a crisis mode.

I agree with you completely.

Soooo reminds me of my ex. She wanted me to cook, clean, help the kids with homework, pick up, drop off, do laundry and then leave when she came home. They really just confirm that your W is more than likely on the crisis express. You cannot fix HER.

I am learning the hard way I can't fix her. I think I am at the point where I don't even want to try. I feel I can be there for her if she needs me, but I have got to stop worrying about her.

I actually wonder if you are afraid to get angry.

There might be some truth in this. I used to get angry easily. Like I mentioned during the breakup of my 1st marriage and showed anger. For some reason with this W I have often let her get her way (although she will tell you the opposite). I don't know if it was because of what happened in the 1st marriage but I just don't want my wife to be angry at me.

I also suspect that the fact that you do not work has you worried about how you can continue to take care of your kids. Buddy….You will be OKAY man. You will. Your kids will be okay. Do not use them as an excuse to not face your demons (for the record I did it for a long time).

This is true. I am worried about not working. I have been thinking of a plan to get back into working and being able to support my kids. I have thought about getting jobs in the past but my W never really cared if I did. She would rather have me around for the kids.She wanted a parent at home with the kids all the time and didn't want to use daycare.

Question: Are you still in GA?

Yes

Question: Do you have a journal?

No, but I will get one this weekend.

I will research your story tomorrow/this weekend.

I plan on going on the hike this weekend. Hopefully this Saturday morning. I want to go alone. I haven't really had much alone time since this all started and maybe just being outside in nature will help me clear my head. I don't know, but I think I need some time for myself.

Finally, I sooooo wished you could see what I see in your post and in YOU. I see so much HOPE, so much positivity in YOUR sitch. I see you becoming everything you’ve ever wanted to be.

Thanks for telling me this and thanks for everything you have done for me. I really appreciate it. I don't know where I would be without this board and all the great people that are helping.

[Eagle11]

You know Eagle11, I still practice what I am going to say, with one difference - it's not just to my spouse, but for me. What am I going to say to me in times where I feel challenged by my spouse, by others, by the self? What is my plan of action in those moments? What is the recovery plan if I begin down a road that I feel lost on? Or, even more important, after a lethal inquisition of the self following a much needed MACH1 challenge - what is my plan to change my instincts from one form to another - can I actually change instinct? The answer is yes, you can. I am not there yet to full capacity, but it can be begun, and I can choose to make it permanent. You - Eagle11 - can change the question as opposed to adding on to your current behavior. That is an important statement - you can change the question as opposed to adding on to your current behavior. You can my friend.

This is interesting. I think I need to look within more. I am so concerned about my W and what she thinks and how I react to that. Are you saying you are reprogramming the way you think?

Eagle11 - what I personally see about the genius of DB; all these posts, reading the books twice, watching the videos, exploring other models -the genius of DB'ing is that it offers only one valid outcome for all these different variables. If you do the DB correctly, it is all about you being a better you. Not MWD nor any old poster here guarantees that this will results in us ending up with the women we fell in love with, had kids with, married. No, but what they guarantee is that if you listen, if you believe, if you put in the work, that hope and belief in ourselves - in our self - can be rebuilt. You can do this. I can do this. Those with signature dates years before us did this.

I am beginning to learn this from you and others on this board. In all honesty, I bought the book and found this website because I just wanted to save my marriage. What I am discovering is that this whole thing is about us, not our marriage. If we get to that place in our lives where we believe in ourselves then great things will happen. If we don't save our marriage, we will be fine as long as we've worked and bettered ourselves. This has been pounded in my head over and over since I joined here and it's starting to sink in.

I believe in you, you believe in you. Eagle11 - Apollo11's lunar lander? One small step for man? You are the man Eagle11. I will be out for a bit after tonight, have a long weekend of paper writing and my son's birthday party, plus next 4 nights with him. Wanted to check your sitch, remind you that you are a leader, and that you have every right to chime in on my deal too. Be cool, be well. With you dude.

I appreciate the thought and thank you for checking in.Everyone here has been so helpful to me. It's amazing how much a bunch of people on a message board that don't know me have taken the time to help me. Everyone here has got lives of there own to live, but they come into my thread and post amazing advice to me. I really am at a loss for words. When I posted my first post on here I was just hoping someone would take the time to respond,but the response has been overwhelming.

Have fun with your son this weekend. I hope he has a great birthday and thanks for checking in and helping. I really appreciate it.

[ericmsant2]

Eagle,

I was always a quiet/shy kid and struggled I feel with self confidence. I had friends but didn't really like to hang out with many of them after school. I was a loner most of the time when not in school.

Can you expand on this? Why do YOU feel the self-confidence was low? Why be a loner? Are you more of an introvert and prefer to be alone?

I have actually never met my real dad.

Well that makes two of us and also explains why you are the dad that you are (very involved, etc.).

I was upset but like I said I always suspected it to be true.

How did you deal with being “upset”?

I have never had a desire to find my real dad. I don't want to know the man who left and never bothered to check up on me.

Not judging…..I just find it interesting that you have no desire to even know if he is alive. Something to think about…as you get older it may help to know what his medical history is/was.

Looking back, we didn't know what we were doing.

A life lesson that I learned…..it really helped me to forgive… the lesson is….
“people do the best they can with the tools they have at the time”

You were both young and did the best you could. The KEY in the above life lesson is to LEARN from the experience and where applicable NOT repeat the same pattern.

When I met my W for the first time I remember thinking that I better enjoy her while she is around, because she is way out of my league.

What actions or behaviors did you wife exhibit that caused you the think that she was “out of your league”?

I just don't want my wife to be angry at me.

Question…. Do you think that you can control how others feel if you just keep quiet?

I have been thinking of a plan to get back into working and being able to support my kids.

Thinking and DOING are TWO different things.

I have thought about getting jobs in the past but my W never really cared if I did. She would rather have me around for the kids. She wanted a parent at home with the kids all the time and didn't want to use daycare.

What about what YOU want? You matter too!

I suggest that you start thinking about what steps you can take to get back into the workforce. I am not suggesting that you disrupt the entire family structure. Start to do some research and figure out what you would need to dust off your skill set and/or licenses required to work. I think it would be good for you.

Also, no need to announce it to your W. DB 101 – do things differently. Change it up a bit buddy.

I haven't really had much alone time since this all started and maybe just being outside in nature will help me clear my head. I don't know, but I think I need some time for myself.

Then TAKE the TIME for YOURSELF. Stop asking….stop waiting…just DO IT. I am not suggesting you leave the kids home alone. I am saying that YOU need to find the time for YOURSELF.

I have one other thing I would like you to do. Can you purchase the book No more Mr Nice Guy. It is 18.95 new on Amazon (12.95 on Amazon Prime) or 5.90 used. I think you would benefit greatly from the book.

Another read for you…Let Go now, embracing detachment by Karen Casey it is 13.47 on Amazon. I think they have an audible version as well. This book talks about BOUNDARIES and sorry to say dude, you have none. You can learn the skill though.

I am off for a weeks vacation but will be checking in on you.

BTW….who is the biggest email service provider in the world?

Let me know when you get the journal.

Peace

[CT1118]

Eagle11 - thought my son would be with me tonight, he is not (that is a different story, not a negative one) so stopped by your corner. My graduate work is done for today, so here I am...

This is interesting. I think I need to look within more. I am so concerned about my W and what she thinks and how I react to that. Are you saying you are reprogramming the way you think?

Yes, to some degree, if that is how you wish to view it. I am saying you do not have to think the way you think. Perhaps you reprogram, perhaps you delete the program. What questions do you ask yourself? I gave you a few examples of what I ask myself - There is much expansion that could be done here. Ask me more if you want.

...I just wanted to save my marriage. What I am discovering is that this whole thing is about us, not our marriage. If we get to that place in our lives where we believe in ourselves then great things will happen. If we don't save our marriage, we will be fine as long as we've worked and bettered ourselves. This has been pounded in my head over and over since I joined here and it's starting to sink in.

You are in luck, I read what Ericmsant2 posted to you. It will sink in with a hammer very soon. The hammer will be in your own hand by the way, not Eric's, he will be handing you nails.

Something from:

I have thought about getting jobs in the past but my W never really cared if I did. She would rather have me around for the kids. She wanted a parent at home with the kids all the time and didn't want to use daycare.

What about what YOU want? You matter too!

I would not wish to interfere with the line of questions Eric offered you, but something was either left behind or intentionally passed - I will leave it to E2 if he wants to check me on the interruption, but: Above you wrote You thought of getting jobs, she did not care if you did BUTShe wanted a parent at home and she did not want to use daycare. What is the committed answer? In this statement it looks like you blame her for you not getting a job, however you prefaced with she did not care. So, does she have a control problem or did you like staying at home with the kids? Was it more mutual than you stated?

PS, www.thepennyhoarder.com : great ideas for small income from home. Some ideas suk, some don't, but worth looking at.

And sir - still wishing you the best of the best, especially on that hike - envious.

[twinmom]

YI, I mystery shop for a "living"...... no advice for you other than to look into this. It's real (don't fall for scams) and not only do I have actual cash coming in but it allows me to eat out/go places that normally wouldn't be in the budget.... like 7 Cubs games this season. If you want advice on how to stay away from scams I'll be happy to give some advice. From one stay at home parent to another it's helped me feel like I contribute, have a savings safety net if H leaves again and allows me to get out of the house & interact with people.

[ericmsant2]

Eagle - just checking in...

Hope you are okay.

[Eagle11]

Eric,

Everything has been good. I have actually had a busy last 3 or 4 days and haven't had time to check the message boards. Finally, everyone is in bed and I have time to catch up.

Can you expand on this? Why do YOU feel the self-confidence was low? Why be a loner? Are you more of an introvert and prefer to be alone?

I'm more of an introvert. I really enjoyed time by myself when I was younger. As I got older I tended to like being around people more, but I have never been one that likes to be in groups of people. I'm much more comfortable one on one or communicating with just a few people at a time. I think my self confidence was low because I don't think my family gave me the support that I needed. Unfortunately, I have never been the biggest self motivator and I need encouragement and I don't think I ever really received it from them. I also never heard the words love from them either. I know they love me but they never said it. That's one of the reasons I have always made sure to tell my kids and my W that I love them.

How did you deal with being “upset”?

I dealt with being upset by doing nothing. I never brought it up to my mom again. I told my 1st wife at the time, but never brought it up again. I also don't talk about it with my current W. I basically have held any emotion I might have in since the day I found out.

Not judging…..I just find it interesting that you have no desire to even know if he is alive. Something to think about…as you get older it may help to know what his medical history is/was.

I had therapist I was going to during my 1st divorce tell me this same thing, but I honestly have no desire to meet the man. My W doesn't understand and thinks I should seek him out, but I really don't think about it much. I guess I feel since he abandoned me as soon as he found out my mom was pregnant I don't feel like wasting my time. I don't even know his name. My mom told me it the day she told me, but I honestly don't remember what it is. I think I was in shock or something and don't really remember the details of our converstation.

You were both young and did the best you could. The KEY in the above life lesson is to LEARN from the experience and where applicable NOT repeat the same pattern.

This is the part that frustrates me. I never really understood at the time what went wrong. I wish I would have dug into what the problems were in the 1st marriage, but I never did. I was young and immature at the time. I blamed her and she blamed me. There was a lot of hurt and anger at the time, but like I said earlier I would forgive her if I ever saw her again.

What actions or behaviors did you wife exhibit that caused you the think that she was “out of your league”?

No actions. She was just the most beautiful women I had ever dated. She was so fun and a free spirit. I wasn't dating ugly women at the time, but my W was a step up in the beauty department though. I just didn't have the self confidence to think that she could fall in love with me.

Question…. Do you think that you can control how others feel if you just keep quiet?

No. I see what you are saying. If I keep quiet how can I expect her to understand me and what I am feeling.

I have thought about getting jobs in the past but my W never really cared if I did. She would rather have me around for the kids. She wanted a parent at home with the kids all the time and didn't want to use daycare.
What about what YOU want? You matter too!

This is a dilemma I have had for some time. I have often thought about getting back to work, but then I care so much for the kids. I thought I would go back to work one our S6 started school, but then we had another S. He was born 2 month prematurely and spent about 5 weeks in the hospital before we could bring him home. When he was born he weighed 3.8 lbs and I could hold him in one hand. I didn't know if he would make it. Everyday I spend with him I consider a blessing and hate to be away from him. He is doing great now. He has finally caught up with other kids his age in size and other than some speech issues that he is going to therapy for you would never know he was born early. I just think it would be hard for me to take him to daycare for 10 hours a day. I can't explain it, but if I stayed married I would continue to stay home with him until he started school. Of course I know I am going to have to start looking into the process of daycare for him and work for me. I have already looked into daycare rates and what daycares offer after school programs for my S6.

The thought of being away from my kids is what scares me the most in all of this. I have basically been a single dad during the week for most of their lives because of my W's work schedule. Maybe I should feel relieved about the possibility of have a few days a week for myself if we get a D, but I want to see my kids everyday. They have been the one constant in my life the last 6 1/2 years. I just can't imagine not being there everyday for them.

I have one other thing I would like you to do. Can you purchase the book No more Mr Nice Guy. It is 18.95 new on Amazon (12.95 on Amazon Prime) or 5.90 used. I think you would benefit greatly from the book.

Another read for you…Let Go now, embracing detachment by Karen Casey it is 13.47 on Amazon. I think they have an audible version as well. This book talks about BOUNDARIES and sorry to say dude, you have none. You can learn the skill though.

No More Mr. Nice Guy just purchased. Will get the other book soon.

BTW….who is the biggest email service provider in the world?

Gmail?

Let me know when you get the journal.

I picked one up

[Eagle11]

CT1118,

Just checking back into the boards after a busy last few days for me. How was your weekend? Did everything go ok with your son?

I would not wish to interfere with the line of questions Eric offered you, but something was either left behind or intentionally passed - I will leave it to E2 if he wants to check me on the interruption, but: Above you wrote You thought of getting jobs, she did not care if you did BUTShe wanted a parent at home and she did not want to use daycare. What is the committed answer? In this statement it looks like you blame her for you not getting a job, however you prefaced with she did not care. So, does she have a control problem or did you like staying at home with the kids? Was it more mutual than you stated?

She doesn't have a control problem with the kids and I generally love to stay home with them.

When we moved to FL and she got a higher paying job she was the one who suggested I stay home so we wouldn't have to send our S to daycare like he had been going. I was excited for this because at the time I thought this would be easy. After a couple of months I realized this was a lot harder than I thought. I stuck with it and as we moved around I grew more comfortable, but I don't think I was the best stay at home dad to our older son because I wasn't really sure what I was doing or if I wanted to do it. I never brought it up to my W though. I don't think I was scared to talk to her about it, but maybe I felt like I might be viewed as a failure.

Anyway, in my post above to Eric I mentioned that my younger son was born 2 months early and spent 5 weeks in the hospital before he got to come home. Even after he came home he would still have issues from time to time. With this son I think I finally realized what I was doing by being a stay home parent. I could see how much he needed me and I found something with him that I didn't have before.

This is hard to explain and I hope it doesn't come across that I love one son more than the other because that is not the case. I just think with my second S and all the trauma it made me realize what it means to be a dad and to really have someones life depend on me. Anyway, once my second S was born I feel I became a much better stay home parent to both my boys and I began to really enjoy staying with them everyday. I became proud to be a stay home dad.

PS, www.thepennyhoarder.com : great ideas for small income from home. Some ideas suk, some don't, but worth looking at.

I will look into this. Thanks for the link.

[Eagle11]

YI, I mystery shop for a "living"...... no advice for you other than to look into this. It's real (don't fall for scams) and not only do I have actual cash coming in but it allows me to eat out/go places that normally wouldn't be in the budget.... like 7 Cubs games this season. If you want advice on how to stay away from scams I'll be happy to give some advice. From one stay at home parent to another it's helped me feel like I contribute, have a savings safety net if H leaves again and allows me to get out of the house & interact with people.

Twinmom,

Thanks for the advice. I will look into mystery shopping. I do need to find a way to make some extra money .

[Eagle11]

A little update on my sitch. I had a pretty good last 4 or 5 days. I didn't get to take my hike because my W had to work from 6-12 Saturday morning and I already had plans for Sunday. I did however get to have some alone time on Sunday to clear my head and I actual ly had a couple of almost normal night sleeps. I've made it more than 3 or 4 hours the last few nights without waking up, which is a first for me since this all started about 6 weeks ago. Unfortunately, I didn't get that sleep last night because my W was up at 4 am this morning to leave for her business trip. I went a head and got up and carried her bag to the car for her and told her goodbye. I know this might look like cake eating, but I looked at it as a small opportunity to show her change because in the past I don't know if would have gotten out of bed at 4 am to carry her bag to the car.

Last Friday night I had a drink with my wife and she had 5. I guess the drinks loosened her up because she decided to tell me about when she was raped by an ex boyfriend while in college. I knew she had been raped but it was never talked about because I didn't feel comfortable ever bringing it up and she never offered any real info. I won't go into details, but it was even more traumatic than I imagined. She also told me about a couple of attempted assaults and a sexual harassment situation that happened within a year of the rape. She never reported the rape because of the reaction she got from people when she reported the sexual harassment charge that happened a few months before. She said the only people that know about it are therapists,her mom and now me.

After talking about the rape she told me she doesn't feel anything with anyone when it comes to sex. She said she has been to 7 therapists dealing with her problems over the years but she wants a quick fix and can't get it from them. She quit her latest therapy a couple of weeks ago after going to 4 sessions. My W told me we have a great relationship now as friends but she doesn't know if it can be anymore than that because she just feels numb to me in a sexual way. She wanted to know what my therapist says about her and I told her a few details and my W seemed to agree with them.

The rest of weekend with my W was fine. We hung out Saturday night with the kids where she drank another bottle of wine. Sunday, she went and bought our S6 a new tablet because his broke. After she gave it to him she told him to remember the most important thing in life is family and to always be there for your family. She says things now that I don't know how to take. I DON'T get my hopes up because I know everything could change in an instant, but there are little signs that maybe she is not as crazy as she has been.

Sunday evening I went and got dinner and we ate together as a family for the 2nd time since this all started 6 weeks ago. After dinner she drank another bottle of wine and she had another last night. I'm starting to worry about all this alcohol consumption. I believe she has drank a bottle of wine every night since last Wednesday except for Friday night when she had 5 beers.

Also, yesterday she decided to buy us a new tv since ours has finally had it after 7 or 8 years. This was not a small investment. Last weekend she also mentioned about a dog for the kids. A dog is something we have talked about in past for them,but have never done it because we were always renting houses. Now that we have our own we starting talking about it more seriously. I told her I don't if right now is a good time with our sitch, but she said we could just divide the dog up like everything else if we don't work out.

As far as the the OM go, i think OM #1 isn't as serious anymore (although he will be at work conference the next few days). OM #2 is still going strong though. I know she texted him a lot Saturday night and last night. I am getting better at not letting it bother me. I didn't feel the anger last night that I usually feel when I know she is texting him. She actually told me she was texting him last night, she said it was work related. Once again I don't believe her but I kept my mouth shut.

Where do I go from here? She won't be back until late Thursday night from her trip so I am taking this as an opportunity to work on myself without having to look over my shoulder to see if she is around. I am going to do some more research and catch up on this board over the next few days.