The phantom cyclist

[AndrewP]

Links to past threads. A lot of rambling nonsense if you ask me. It all seemed so very important at the time. There are some good bits in the MLC thread 1 though mostly written by other people.

Newcomer Thread 5 - Baking my own cake
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701127&page=1

MLC Thread 1 - Am I on the wrong bicycle
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2701309&page=1

Just my opinion from reading what you write...

I see you posting here, yet not really taking much of this to heart. Because you believe that eventually, SHE will "snap out of it" , and want to come back. Just like has ALWAYS happened in the past...

There is a difference, BIG difference between DBing, and just waiting it out...

Which one are you really ???

I stole this from CT1118's thread because I thought for me that it was a really important question as well. I really don't know the answer to this. I'm trying to learn and absorb everything that I can and am working on myself to become even more of the man I am, one that I respect. But yes - I "am" waiting for her to "snap out of it" because as far as I've learned there is doodly squat I can do to affect her and her journey. If she doesn't "snap out of it" - then .... I really don't know. Literally since the day we met over 28 years ago now we've been inseparable and other than one time just before we got married when she tried to storm off and run home to her parents (forgot her purse and changed her mind on the way back to get it) we have remained committed to each other. I do know that she moved in with a guy when she was in her late teens / early 20s and that it ended with her throwing all of the plates at him and storming out (she has a temper) but it has been one of the strongest, most stable relationships out there - at least as far as I can tell from where I sit in the mud right now. CT1118 and I are both singing in harmony in this chorus even though we perhaps have a different song.

STOP Mindreading

Já herra (thanks Google Translate for making me look smart)

Mind-reading is indeed a problem for me but I think I've (largely) kicked the habit. Part of that is making a point of whenever I say something that I could imagine W thinking or doing I put in mind-reading! as a disclaimer. I really really have no clue at all on what is going on in her mind.

The problem for me is that I "DO" desperately want to talk about it.

Why?

I feel like I'm living a lie.

Is this ^^^ the reason? What do you really gain by telling people? Support? Chit that is what we are here for. Be honest, what is your reason for wanting to tell people?

Honestly? Honestly I want to be liked and respected. I want to be able to be comforted and vindicated for the hard work that I've done in standing by my W through this troubled time. I don't want people crossing the street when they see me (a few do). This place is all well and fine but - and please don't take this wrongly - we are all semi-random people on the internet. A self-selected population in fact of like-minded people. In my village I am part of a community of (generally) kind and supportive people who are the sort that when something bad happens leave you a casserole and gather around to support.

The other part of this which is a big part for me is the lies. By my silence I am also lieing just like W is. I have to tip-toe around conversations to make sure that no mention is made of my sitch. One of my very best friends, the man who introduced W and I, doesn't even know that we're having troubles. Yes, I'm doing this to protect W but in doing so it does hurt me.

I'm willing to be contradicted but I'm not too worried about the finances

That is what a ton of people I know said, then they ended up getting screwed. Ask yourself this, if you guys were still in the same house as a couple and she began spending up a storm, which was beginning to impact your savings, retirement, bills, etc. What would you do?

Protecting yourself is NOT a bad thing. Just sayin…

eric - I've protected myself as well as I can at this point. I have alarms on all our finances that notify me of transactions within moments. I have the ability (as does she) of pulling all of our savings away in moments. I can cancel her credit card in 5 minutes with a phone call. As I said and I quite like the image - we're two dogs staring over the same bone. If either one of us pulls it away then the fight begins. I don't want to start that fight. Realistically we have fairly modest means and the financial damage she can do is more easily repaired than the damage that would happen to trust if either of us pulled that bone away. Part of her being smart is that she knows this too (Mind-reading!) <- see - I did it again I too have heard all the stories like others of people being an @ss and financially destroying the other. I even know people who did that intentionally. What is important to me is W and our MR (if we can make a new one). In talking to my L and others who have gone down the D path, doing something nasty with the marital property is not looked on at all positively by the courts here. The fact that W has already stripped the house of much of the furniture and all the antiques and collectibles won't help her much if we end up going that way.

What I see in your posts is this feeling that what YOU do or do not DO is going to DRIVE what she does. In some way it will in others it will not.

Being just and fair is very different that being scared.

You matter Andrew – don’t forget that.

Thanks eric. I need to keep reminding myself that this journey is about "me" and not her. Despite my best efforts in detaching we are still joined in many ways. I have no way of knowing for sure but from what little I see of her activities and from what I've read I'm presuming that each and everything I say, do, or write - even here may be scrutinized and analyzed by her or her L at some point. I've written very little I would want to take back and I've not held back much that I would want to write.

I think I'm going to move my main posting over to here. There's very little actually happening in the world of AndrewP and the phantom W (hey - just got my new thread title). I can't get over this feeling of forboding though. As if something's happening, wheels turning, cannons being loaded. It started yesterday morning and has been coming and going in waves. Probably just everyday paranoia. Funny but I used to rely on W for her "something's wrong" intuition. She was right more than enough times for me to always take is seriously. I did notice that W posted a nice comment on D24's Facebook status about their move. I hesitated for quite a while and then pressed "like" on it. We "are" both her parents and I do still hope we can parent her together again. I have almost all the preparation done for Saturday's canoe trip. The last one I went on was a disaster with rude drunk people being stupid. There will probably be an amount of drunk people but they're all a few years older now. Since it's a long weekend I'll still be able to get my household chores done although it will mean driving by W's house on Sunday to get groceries. I hope I don't see OM there which was why I had changed my grocery day to one that W works on.

Not that it's meaningful - or perhaps it is - but I've been thinking more about something that so many people have emphasized to me. They think that it is comforting and perhaps it is in a way. Even W way back before BD1 went on about it. It's that I'll be able to easily find someone new. Do I actually want that? I don't really know the answer to that. I've been having to work my way up to it because one thing I realized shortly after BD1 was that W, for much of our MR was rarely supportive to me WRT my attractiveness. Others have told me that she only had positive things to say about me but even though I'm a man feeling attractive and desirable is important to me. In all of our years of MR I can only recall a couple of times when she told me that I looked nice and the compliment never escalated above that. She would occasionally tell me that my clothes looked nice. From the beginning she would tease me about being fat (I wasn't) which once I progressed to actually being fat (I'm not any more) she changed into occasional comments about my health etc. W on the other hand has always been - shall we say - curvy with not all the curves being in the expected spots. I always found her beautiful and desirable and regularly told her so both in words and actions. I remember though too when she was telling me pre BD1 and several times after that I could (and should) find someone new how I jokingly told her that I wouldn't be attractive to anyone unless they saw my paycheque (we live modestly but I have a good income) she shook her head but had nothing to say.

I do now often look at myself in the mirror and while I'm not Michael Jackson I like to think that the man in the mirror is one to like, admire and yes - he's pretty hot looking too.

I am feeling a bit burned out right now though too. I've spent some time today visiting other's threads and honestly can't think of anything to say. I "really" appreciate visitors here and any comments that you may be kind enough to make so please don't think I'm rude. I am visiting, just drained of anything to say to others.

[Mach1]

Just my opinion from reading what you write...

I see you posting here, yet not really taking much of this to heart. Because you believe that eventually, SHE will "snap out of it" , and want to come back. Just like has ALWAYS happened in the past...

There is a difference, BIG difference between DBing, and just waiting it out...

Which one are you really ???

I stole this from CT1118's thread because I thought for me that it was a really important question as well. I really don't know the answer to this. I'm trying to learn and absorb everything that I can and am working on myself to become even more of the man I am, one that I respect. But yes - I "am" waiting for her to "snap out of it" because as far as I've learned there is doodly squat I can do to affect her and her journey. If she doesn't "snap out of it" - then .... I really don't know. Literally since the day we met over 28 years ago now we've been inseparable and other than one time just before we got married when she tried to storm off and run home to her parents (forgot her purse and changed her mind on the way back to get it) we have remained committed to each other. I do know that she moved in with a guy when she was in her late teens / early 20s and that it ended with her throwing all of the plates at him and storming out (she has a temper) but it has been one of the strongest, most stable relationships out there - at least as far as I can tell from where I sit in the mud right now. CT1118 and I are both singing in harmony in this chorus even though we perhaps have a different song.

^^^^

The bolded part...

THAT is what DBing is about...

Finding out who you are, so that IF that happens, then you are prepared...

And guess what ???

IF she does change her mind, and wants to come back...??

You have this huge understanding of self, relationships, trust, love, faith, marriage, parenting,etc...

YOU are a better person because of what you went through...

You are here already, you are gonna go through it anyway, might as well dig in and learn to appreciate the journey too...

You have time Andrew...it is a gift. Most people scoff at Cadets initial post, yet everyone that embraces the process, has come through this with a better skillset to handle not only a relationship...but life itself...

You and I didn't get off to a very good start up in newcomers.

Lets try and change that ??

I am in your corner....

[cat04]

The problem for me is that I "DO" desperately want to talk about it.

Why?

I feel like I'm living a lie.

Is this ^^^ the reason? What do you really gain by telling people? Support? Chit that is what we are here for. Be honest, what is your reason for wanting to tell people?

Honestly? Honestly I want to be liked and respected. I want to be able to be comforted and vindicated for the hard work that I've done in standing by my W through this troubled time. I don't want people crossing the street when they see me (a few do). This place is all well and fine but - and please don't take this wrongly - we are all semi-random people on the internet. A self-selected population in fact of like-minded people. In my village I am part of a community of (generally) kind and supportive people who are the sort that when something bad happens leave you a casserole and gather around to support.

The other part of this which is a big part for me is the lies. By my silence I am also lieing just like W is. I have to tip-toe around conversations to make sure that no mention is made of my sitch. One of my very best friends, the man who introduced W and I, doesn't even know that we're having troubles. Yes, I'm doing this to protect W but in doing so it does hurt me.

Keeping things private is not lying. Until you are ready to deal with the "fallout" and the questions of people knowing, there is nothing wrong with keeping something private.

As for the upper paragraph...

Why would you not be liked and respected for being separated or divorced. It is NOT a testament to your character.

However if you are looking for kudos for being the super great man who stood and waited and that is what you are looking for VALIDATION for...there is a bit of a problem.

External validation is nice. However, there will always be people who will validate and there will always be people who criticize.

You did mention something about your W never telling you you looked nice and that bothered you. Rightfully so.

However, what is more important is being able to see it for yourself because in the end, your opinion is really the only one that matters.

God, I am not coming across like I want to because I have not done this in so long...

Google validation and see...

or maybe one of my many more eloquent friends can help?

[Jack_Three_Beans]

If she doesn't "snap out of it" - then .... I really don't know.

This is the crux.
IF you knew she would snap out of this...(which is sort of trite, her MLC is far far worse than anything you are going through as an LBS, despite what you may see or believe. Ask Wonka.) You could do this standing on your head, in fact...if you knew she would come through her MLC and want to still be married, you'd be doing the things we suggest. You would be going out, enjoying life, not obsessing or mind reading. You'd understand this was a process and all you had to do is wait for a little while. What is a couple of years compared to 40-50 years of being married? And then you guys could work on strengthening your marriage and recommitting to each other.

It's the unknown, that is killing you.

Like why would I do all of this, if she might not come back?

Again this is for you.

Giving this your best shot, giving this your all, means that you have no doubts as to who you are and what you stand for, and what you learn here from doing this is so very helpful in whatever relationship you have after this. You are not a broken person bringing baggage to a different relationship. I keep saying relationship like it might not be with your wife. Even if it is with you wife it will be a new relationship.

Use this time to your advantage. Believe she will come out of it, but understand that there is nothing you can do to make that happen, that there almost never is a quick fix, and if there is one, to be very wary of it. Believe that she will come back in time and use that belief so that you can use the time wisely.

I came out of this with a better understanding of what love was and meant to me. It wasn't controlling, it was sharing. I love my wife, but seriously and in all honesty I love her enough to let her go, I don't need her to love her. We share a life.

[AndrewP]

You have time Andrew...it is a gift. Most people scoff at Cadets initial post, yet everyone that embraces the process, has come through this with a better skillset to handle not only a relationship...but life itself...

You and I didn't get off to a very good start up in newcomers.

Lets try and change that ??

I am in your corner....

Mach1 - thank you so much. We first encountered when I was in a very bad spot emotionally and was striking out at everyone. I apologize for that. I still hope that I didn't chase dream away accidentally.

Time is both a blessing and a curse. I have been using the time to work on myself and to understand the journeys that both W and I have to take. I think I speak for most of us here though that these are journeys we would rather not be on and if we must be on them we pray that they are quick. Those prayers don't get answered.

Keeping things private is not lying. Until you are ready to deal with the "fallout" and the questions of people knowing, there is nothing wrong with keeping something private.

Thanks cat04. That matches my own thoughts with this and is why I'm keeping quiet. The fallout in such a small tight-knit community could (possibly) be catastrophic for W. It certainly would be for any trust that she has remaining for me. I don't know why she doesn't trust me and just deleted a bunch of mind-reading on the subject that doesn't matter. For me, the fallout would be largely positive which leads into your next point.

However if you are looking for kudos for being the super great man who stood and waited and that is what you are looking for VALIDATION for...there is a bit of a problem.

External validation is nice. However, there will always be people who will validate and there will always be people who criticize.

<snip>

God, I am not coming across like I want to because I have not done this in so long...

Google validation and see...

or maybe one of my many more eloquent friends can help?

You did fine cat04. What the issue is is one of vanity. Of the 7 deadly sins, the sin of pride is one that I am - if you'll pardon the joke - the most proud of. With pride comes vanity. I know this about myself but don't let it rule my world. I (generally) don't do things for the approval of others but the approval of others is welcome. I have also done things where some others have been quite opposed to me and been proud of standing my ground. When I was quite young - about 13 or so - I was in a situation where a large group of people made a big fuss over me for one of my accomplishments. I still carry that day in my heart.

[Cld]

I think there is something we can do about it. I don't know if it's going to work but I am trying it.
I am in no way religious and I don't believe in praying God to make things happen but I have seen several times how positive energy can heal wounds and physical illnesses during meditation.
Many physicists suggest that if you focus on someone during meditation, you can send them love and positive energy to their brain and that will heal their wounds faster so that they come back to their senses sooner.
I am not sure that this is going to work, but I am trying it.
I am sending positive energy to my children with the hope that they won't get scarred by all this and to my wife with the hope that she will heal sooner and realize all the damage and destruction that she is causing.
Call me crazy.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

the sin of pride is one that I am - if you'll pardon the joke - the most proud of

Sir, while most definitely a sin, it has it uses, and you and I suffer? from the same one.

If you are all that prideful...I am going to suggest that you can use that to your advantage here.

If you are THAT prideful, you can do here what so many other seeks.

Maybe you'll be the one to come back with the Holy Grail.
But I'll warn you, you cannot be prideful when you grasp it.

[ericmsant2]

Andrew,

Mind-reading is indeed a problem for me but I think I've (largely) kicked the habit. Part of that is making a point of whenever I say something that I could imagine W thinking or doing I put in mind-reading! as a disclaimer. I really really have no clue at all on what is going on in her mind.

1) There is an old saying on these boards that everything after the word “but” is an excuse we give ourselves.
2) IF you have no clue what is going on her mind, why do you keep trying to make the point that she is thinking or doing.

Do you know what a habit is?

Why are habits formed?

How does one change a habit?

Honestly? Honestly I want to be liked and respected.

First, you should be liked and respected for WHO YOU ARE and to those who do not like you, well guess what….you cannot control that.

I want to be able to be comforted and vindicated for the hard work that I've done in standing by my W through this troubled time. I don't want people crossing the street when they see me (a few do).

1) Mach is great at comforting. He gives a great foot massage. I actually remember the time when we were…okay nevermind.
2) Honestly, you can get comfort here and YOU have NO CONTROL over what people are going to do, say and think. Thinking you do, is mistake number 1. IMO, it is a form of control and manipulation. I suspect you want YOUR side of story out so that YOU can look like the martyr. How does that help YOUR cause?

In my village I am part of a community of (generally) kind and supportive people who are the sort that when something bad happens leave you a casserole and gather around to support.

I recommend Mach’s chile. Ask him for the receipt and use that as a replacement for the “casserole” that someone might leave ya. Chances are it will taste better.

By my silence I am also lieing just like W is.

IMO, no you are NOT.

I have to tip-toe around conversations to make sure that no mention is made of my sitch. One of my very best friends, the man who introduced W and I, doesn't even know that we're having troubles.

You actually do not need to tip-toe around it. If asked, a simple response could be “I would rather not talk about it as that is between my W and I”. This is putting up a healthy boundary and believe it or not will help you IF she decides to come back.

Yes, I'm doing this to protect W but in doing so it does hurt me.

I would say….you are doing this to RESPECT YOUR M. Think about it….W was thinking about coming back but now that everyone knows she is with OM, she is struggling with having the deal with the fall out of everyone knowing. There may come a time when you tell people – I just think now is NOT that time. It is YOUR call though.

We "are" both her parents and I do still hope we can parent her together again.

Regardless of what happens…..YOU will parent her as will your W. It may be different, but I am sure that each of you will be in your D’s life.

It's that I'll be able to easily find someone new. Do I actually want that? I don't really know the answer to that.

IMO, it is normal that you are thinking this way. I personally do not think this is the time for it. I also know that often times, people think and then act on it ONLY as a means to avoid dealing with the issues at hand. My advice – don’t make that mistake. Surround yourself with some male friends and go enjoy life.

In all of our years of MR I can only recall a couple of times when she told me that I looked nice and the compliment never escalated above that.

Validation is good and actually normal. Needing validation to feel good about yourself is not. We all want to be told how wonderful we. Mach always tells me how good I look in my lilac slacks <insert picture of Eric cracking up>. Andrew, do you feel you look okay? Figure out what you do not like about YOU and just change it or ACCEPT it. You are unique in your own way and that is okay.

I always found her beautiful and desirable and regularly told her so both in words and actions.

If you have not already done it…read the five love languages. It may shed some light on how she treated you vs how you treaded her.

Believe it or not, the feeling of being burnt out, IMO is a good one. It shows that your are “working”…you reading, learning, and thinking.

Have a great weekend dude!

[Jack_Three_Beans]

If you have not already done it…read the five love languages. It may shed some light on how she treated you vs how you treaded her.

Highly recommend this book.

We give the type of love we want, we get the type of love they want.

16 days Eric!

[ericmsant2]

16 days Eric!

- Ayep