You wouldn't want her to just get back together because she doesn't have extra money, would you? You don't want that to be her incentive.
Think a little more of your self worth.
Of course not, I want her back because I love her deeply. But looking through her eyes I'm sure if she puts things in the pro/con list of whether to get back with me losing her financial independence will be put squarely in the "con" side of the list.
M 55 W 52 MR 32 T 34+ D29 BD May 8, 2016 - She moved out ILYBNILWY May 15 (Through email) No EA/PA August 23 - DB used against me in every way Divorce July 18, 2017 - Life is getting better every day
You're right Ginger. As soon as I responded I knew I wasn't clear on it. I wouldn't want her back if she was selfish enough to stay away purely for financial reasons. But I do have to be wise enough to know if she has doubts about getting back with me (for many reasons) then that will have to play into her decision. I can't kid myself it wouldn't.
My IC even asked me if I won the lottery would I still want her back. My answer is yes.
M 55 W 52 MR 32 T 34+ D29 BD May 8, 2016 - She moved out ILYBNILWY May 15 (Through email) No EA/PA August 23 - DB used against me in every way Divorce July 18, 2017 - Life is getting better every day
I get where you're coming from Ginger...I am not sure I disagree...I am not sure how I feel about it at all. I guess I don't believe in rainbows and unicorns anymore.
It's like my economics teacher used to say. He said "People say a human life is priceless, and that you can't put a price on a human life. But that's BS. Go on down to the DMV and talk to the city planners. They're the ones that figure out whether to put in a stop light at an intersection, or leave it as a stop sign, or whatever. They look at lives lost per year, what their budget is, and the do the best they can. But there is a point at which they know they could save another x lives with y more in the budget. Do the math, and that is EXACTLY what our society thinks a human life is worth." I'm not throwing stones at the DMV, we all do the best we can as a society and they have to work with what they have to work with. But he has a point, the idea that it is priceless is a bit naive.
A love that isn't based on self interest that somehow stands the test of time, well, it hasn't been proven to me that it exists. Most marriages I know wouldn't have lasted if not for a lot of things like finances, children, and many other glues that bonded them together. The idea that it should hold up due to a mature, mutually rewarding, eternal love...I just haven't seen that happen. Not saying it's impossible, I just haven't seen it yet. What I have seen is a whole lot of divorce because one or both parties chase that ideal.
Again, no firm conclusions. I'm not saying I'd go so far as to find a woman without citizenship that needed me to remain in the country, depended on me financially, and couldn't scratch the surface on the life that I could provide for her elsewhere is necessarily the way I'm planning on finding a future Mrs. Zues...but I'm not saying it isn't. I'm kinda kidding around here, the truth is it's the last thing on my mind, but I get why it's a debate many guys wrestle with after seeing this play out. That and the debate of whether to ever take the chance again after going through the system and coming to grips with the reality of what is really happening these days (instead of what we wished we could find).
RDS, it stinks. It really does. I've given you my two mantras: 1) how I'll take it on the chin knowing that it's the price I have to pay to live in a country where legitimately hard up single moms have protection against dead beat dads, and 2) how we are still in the historical top .01% of every king that ever lived, and we need to be appreciative daily of that fact and never lose sight of it.
In other words, yes, this will be the worst thing that probably ever happens to you, but our lives still have meaning, and there are a lot of people that have it worse...
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Long story short she gave up her high paying career when she was laid off and kind of gave up. She took menial jobs after that and for four years she didn't work at all. She just took a job this January where she barely clears minimum wage but it's a job "she loves".
It's like the system punished the person who worked the hardest and rewards the person who took the easy way out.
This is very interesting wording you use. On the one hand, you note how your W found a job that she loves. But at the same time, you call it "menial" and the "easy way out".
I wonder how this attitude carried over into other aspects of your life together.
Long story short she gave up her high paying career when she was laid off and kind of gave up. She took menial jobs after that and for four years she didn't work at all. She just took a job this January where she barely clears minimum wage but it's a job "she loves".
It's like the system punished the person who worked the hardest and rewards the person who took the easy way out.
This is very interesting wording you use. On the one hand, you note how your W found a job that she loves. But at the same time, you call it "menial" and the "easy way out".
I wonder how this attitude carried over into other aspects of your life together.
You bring up a fair point with wording, but I think I understand what he's saying. Oftentimes in dual income families the man is expected to be the provider and the woman's job is considered more optional or discretionary, and in some cases they use this flexibility to pursue hobby type businesses they do for fun and fulfillment as much as for income. Obviously this doesn't apply to every family, and there are contrary examples. But in his case it did apply and I get the distaste.
He decided to give his WAW the gift of pursuing her passions and dreams, so instead of making her grind it out in a corporate job she didn't like, he ground it out in his job working extra long hours so she could do what she wanted, even though it didn't pay as much. Now she can initiate a divorce despite a lack of abuse or infidelity, then demand a large % of his income so he has to keep working those long hours and she can continue to work in jobs that are half hobby half job, all while spending the leisure time he doesn't have to go date new guys and whoop it up. Not to mention that she might be able to get more parental time with the kids that will further increase the amount he has to work and pay while decreasing the time he sees what's left of the family after she has removed his wife and the majority of the time with the kids from him.
It is a raw, raw, raw deal. I don't think this is him being diminishing towards his WAW. It is just calling a spade a spade and dealing with the loss and betrayal.
It's all good though. In the end we can find our own happiness, be appreciative for what we have, and live in a way that allows us to sleep at night.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Thanks for replying. You said it better than I ever could.
The one thing I do have going for me is my D is grown and living her life so I don't have custody or child support to worry about. She has said what is going on for the finances is unfair and she does hold resentment towards her mother because my W and I raised our D to be strong and independent. We wanted her to grow up and not have to depend on anyone to live you life, yet my W is doing the exact opposite of that. My D sees my W has being very hypocritical and now my D rarely talks to my W. It's something my W will eventually come to regret I'm afraid.
M 55 W 52 MR 32 T 34+ D29 BD May 8, 2016 - She moved out ILYBNILWY May 15 (Through email) No EA/PA August 23 - DB used against me in every way Divorce July 18, 2017 - Life is getting better every day
He decided to give his WAW the gift of pursuing her passions and dreams.
I understand that. And I'm not saying that that is the wrong thing to have done.
My point is more that it wasn't really a "gift" if you're turning around and putting down the choices that she made
I was also upset with my ex for making a long series of choices that I'm sure led to an overall earning much lower than what was possible. But in hindsight that anger was misplaced. I agreed to the path; it wasn't fair to continue to be upset about the pay checks years later when I knew what was coming.
He decided to give his WAW the gift of pursuing her passions and dreams.
I understand that. And I'm not saying that that is the wrong thing to have done.
My point is more that it wasn't really a "gift" if you're turning around and putting down the choices that she made
I was also upset with my ex for making a long series of choices that I'm sure led to an overall earning much lower than what was possible. But in hindsight that anger was misplaced. I agreed to the path; it wasn't fair to continue to be upset about the pay checks years later when I knew what was coming.
Just a thought.
A man gives his wife the ability to not having to work for a decade, or to work in a casual manner of her choosing that she enjoys. That is his choice. That was the gift. They share a love and a marriage, and he continues to provide that gift.
After she decides she doesn't want to live with him but demands the continuation of payments, it is no longer a gift. It is court ordered indentured servitude. He no longer has the choice, or he could face jail time, lost access to his children, and other horrifying consequences.
Could he have seen this coming? Potentially. There are many organizations trying to educate men about the injustice in the family courts, the divorce epidemic, and advising them that marriage is a bad risk in today's day and age. But young men are idealistic and go all in, pouring their hearts and souls into trying to please their wives, many of whom shed them like dead weight because they can have their cake and eat it too.
Listen. I am not a member of these men's groups. I am not grouping all women together, suggesting marriage is a trap to be avoided, or anything like that. But it's not because I don't get where they're coming from or didn't agree with some of their assessments. The problem I had was that those groups didn't offer solutions, and came to only negative conclusions. The women on this forum prove that there are many, many, many incredible females out there that have the character of a saint and still put value in men, families, and good morals. They aren't the problem. They aren't the enemy. We are all on one team, and this is impacting all of us. It's not like they aren't being affected by men's mistrust of them, or that men don't make up a large segment of the walk away spouses, or that men aren't betraying trusts in record numbers. And even the women that do these things are impacted negatively as they aren't finding deep abiding fulfillment down that road.
You're right about not letting anger cloud your life...but when you live in a broken world, I think healthy anger can be motivation for leading change. If you think back to the many injustices in our world, from racism, to sexism, to many other things, anger was pivotal in change. Of course blacks should be angry at racist police. Of course women should be angry at sexist corporations. And I think men should be angry about the way family law is practiced, and the way they allow women to abuse the system in many cases. But then, once you do what you can about it, it's time to go back to taking the pieces left behind, building what you can in the imperfect world we live in, and being grateful for what we have which is still an awful lot.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Interesting POV. I don't mean to turn it around on myself but my ex and I had an interesting arangement. He, at 22 became the youngst store manager of the company he worked for. We were dating at the time. He worked his way up and made good mo ex, he won a trip for us to Puerto Vallarta and cabo.
He was miserable because he had to work hard. He wanted to be a court officer like my dad and stepmom. Easy work, job security, awesome retirement, but low pay. I just wanted him to be happy so I supported him and my dad and stepmom pulled evey string for him. I was making not too much. I took the civil service exam too. This was around 9/11 and there was a hiring freeze. I decided to go to Niraing school in the meantime. He eventually became a court officer at the time I became a nurse and our roles flip flopped. I was the bread winner. When we had our daughter we made a deal where I would work Perrier 2 nights a week, which actually made me break winner AND SAHM.
Well, he left when I was only back at work for 4 months. I had to go back full time. I had to pay for 57% of her child care and got very little child support. To top it off, due to shift work and raising a baby , I eventually had to give up my job and I switched jobs often within my profession to make it work for our daughter. I had no help. I work a boring well paying job now which gives me a work life balance.
But where does my passion and strength lie? In besides nursing. I was an Icu nurse who loved her job and was good at it.
What changed for him? Absolutely nothing. Oh yeah, he met his OW I'm the job.
So it happens to us women too. And it stinks big time.
