A WW? (4)

[MoveFrwd]

I told her its to work through our issues and fix our M. She said ok, make the appointment.

I'm just not sure if W will put effort into this.

I would go into it with no expectations. I doubt it will make anything WORSE.

[SH_]

I told her its to work through our issues and fix our M. She said ok, make the appointment.

I'm just not sure if W will put effort into this.

I would go into it with no expectations. I doubt it will make anything WORSE.

DB principle.....
Act as if....
We are all here because MWD inspired us with her research and understanding of marriage.
Refer regularly to the principles she has shared with us and you will progress...

[lt0402]

Hawk, I agree. Taking that approach for sure. I also fear this is her proving she tried to "work" on the M, but I guess I won't see that until we start the MC process.

Cheesyt, I wish i had a life remote control w/ both a FF and Rewind button on it! How nice that'd be! One of the things I'm struggling w/ now that she's expressed she'd like to do MC is how I act around her. I think I'm still supposed to take the approach of treating her like an out of town guest and keep a stable environment until we start MC. That is to say, I take darknes' approach of picking only the important battles to fight/stand up for, combined w/ being pleasant but not too accommodating the rest of the time. Hell, I'm going to pick back up DR and do some review this weekend.

Darknes and SH, I've gotten back to level here after the past couple days. I'm trying to view this as just another step in the process and going into it w/ no expectations other than it'll be hard work, at least for me. worse comes to worse, we end up right back where we are now.

On the DB principles, I think i need to pick back up the DR book and do some reading this weekend. Thank you for the reminder SH! I've also setup a session w/ my DB coach to discuss this and how i should handle the interaction going into the MC session. Trying my best to keep this spark going, but not expecting anything to come from it.

Journaling now real quick.

W was pleasant last night, other than the quick conversation we had around MC. I went to be around 10 (my normal time). Woke up at 12 and was surprised that W was already in bed and asleep. I'm not sure when the last time she went to bed before 2am was. Started my brain cranking and i didn't get back to sleep for awhile. Who knows if it means anything, but getting some sleep should hopefully take some stress off her.

Missed the gym this AM, so no running today. Will hit it up on the way home though. Meeting w/ my my dad to exercise w/ him tomorrow AM. GAL tomorrow evening w/ Ds friend's dad. DB coach Saturday and then working up a GAL activity for sunday.

Appreciate all of you helping me through this latest "challenge". Your support is extremely helpful and much appreciated!

[fade]

Ws idea of custody is that she'd have D every night except every other weekend. Definitely not on board with that. My last conversation with her, I'd discussed that my view was D would do closer to 50/50 w/ her time for overnights. I was just about ready to retain my own L to respond to her structuring a S agreement when she offered MC.

Well here is the explanation for her sudden suggestion to do MC! This worked out great for her. You had found some resolve, maybe she wouldnt get everything she wants on a silver platter anymore. So she says 5 words and you are back in your place. The only motivation she will have to work on your marriage is if she feels she is losing something. She has not and will not as long as she can control you with false hope.

What you will see now is her forever shifting the goal posts to keep you running in circles.

When I suggested before that you could try mediation, I did not realize she had already retained a lawyer. That changes everything. You need to retain your own L immediately, and you really should try to beat her to the punch with terms, including minimum support and 50-50 custody.

[lt0402]

So W continues to harp on my R w/ D. Got a couple text messages from W around Ds plans for the weekend (friend over sat., sleepover sat. evening, party sun. afternoon/evening) so I'd know when D is free. I say I may move my GAL for Fri to Sat so there'd be more time to hang out and W says D asked if she could fall asleep in our bed. No problem, I can keep my GAL for tomorrow instead of Sat.

W then sends me this:

"I know this may sound mean, but please get that it's not intended to be. D asked me this morning if you could live w/ D's friends dad who is getting divorced. I know it's not a realistic situation and that's not why I'm telling you. For Ds whole life, you've broken promises, ignored her, not always told the truth, nor had her back. D is asking for space bc it's the only way she knows to fix it. Pls, I'm begging you, let her have it. If you have any chance of salvaging things w/ her you need to back off a little. Even after we separated you went back to ignoring her and breaking promises, after you promised her you were changing. She has ZERO reason to trust you. Stop trying to build her trust by being in her face all the time."

More of the same on this aspect of things. Planning to give them both some space this weekend and see how W reacts to that. I won't, however, step away from time w/ D bc I believe we are in a better place than we ever have been. Frustrating, but I'm going to try the space and see what happens.

Fade, W paid a small retainer to get L to draft a separation agreement on July 28th. Our plan has been to work through mediation w/ each of us having a L for advice and guidance. I've seen 3 different Ls, but haven't retained one yet. I asked W at the conclusion of this weekend's chat around custody if i should go ahead and retain my L and she said yes. We also agreed her L would work on the S agreement bc they are cheaper by the hour. Then on tues she tosses out the MC question.

I do see what you are saying w/ the false hopes. I'm also afraid of this. It's a weird little balancing act though. If she offers MC and we don't do it, it shows I'm not willing to work on things. If we do MC and she's not putting the effort in then she can say she's tried. It seems a bit like a catch 22. Should i not start the MC and see what her attitude is prior to trying to hammer home a S agreement w/ her? I'm kind of stuck on this and am open to any thoughts here.

Thanks fade!

[RSG]

A 9 year old is asking for space? Lol. This just sounds like more made up controlling nonsense. If the kid doesn't want to go somewhere with her Dad, she will say so. Your child doesn't have "plans." If you ask "do you want to go do X?" she will say "Daddy, I have XXXX." OK.

I will say the best thing for you is this separation. Your W is being crazy when it comes to controlling your child. You should frame your counseling session around what you should be doing in the interim for your child. I don't think this woman is going to put diddly into marriage.

[mvgfwd2]

To me it sounds like your WW is either corrupting your D's view of you or is making it up. Either way it is to manipulate you on custody terms. If you are/were slacking as a dad that is priority #1 to fix. Earning trust takes a lot of work, being truthful and consistent in every way. Do what you say, say what you do. Only promise what you can and will do.

And I bet the idea of D sleeping with WW is not D's idea. just my 2 cents.

[MoveFrwd]

"I know this may sound mean, but please get that it's not intended to be. D asked me this morning if you could live w/ D's friends dad who is getting divorced. I know it's not a realistic situation and that's not why I'm telling you. For Ds whole life, you've broken promises, ignored her, not always told the truth, nor had her back. D is asking for space bc it's the only way she knows to fix it. Pls, I'm begging you, let her have it. If you have any chance of salvaging things w/ her you need to back off a little. Even after we separated you went back to ignoring her and breaking promises, after you promised her you were changing. She has ZERO reason to trust you. Stop trying to build her trust by being in her face all the time."

Im not great at crafting these kinds of messages, but here's my thoughts:

"I recognize that I havent always been the best parent. I also recognize that rebuilding my relationship with D is a two way street. That said, if there is something different that she needs from me, then I need to have that discussion with her, not with you."

You cannot keep having these discussion about what your daughter needs through the filter of your W. It doesnt make any sense. Your D has "ZERO reason to trust you"? What 9 year old talks about not trusting their parents?

[Rose888]

I'd start family counseling with your D asap, and I'd want a psych evaluation of your D as part of any custody arrangement,

I've had four 9 year olds. Kids just don't think like that at that age unless they are being prejudiced by the other parent.

[lt0402]

RSG, I agree and the IC and I discuss at times how to make the environment more stable for my D. IC thinks W is intertwined w/ D and we've discussed mother/daughter Rs. Some really strange stuff. I'm also afraid that my telling W my views on custody has her willing to "suffer through" our M for the sake of our D and that's what's leading to her willingness to do MC.

MV, I know that it was Ws idea for D to sleep with her. When i moved out of the MBR when she first saw OM in July, W had D sleep in there for like 3 straight weeks. Finally D told her she wanted to sleep in her own bed. Now that I'm back in MBR, there's been no opportunity for her to pull D in there.

I'll admit that my focus was more on work than on M and R w/ D before all this hit. Ever since the BD, my R with D is stronger and getting better by the day. At one point I asked W what promises I'd broken to her and D and she couldn't list a single one. I've made sure to have touchpoints w/ D and ask her if there's anything I've been doing wrong or could be doing better. The only thing she's offered back to me is she would like me to do more to help mommy b/c mommy is overloaded and she'd like me to stop doing things that aggravate mommy.

I fear that D is so worried about doing things to upset W that she may be telling W things she wants to hear. Or W really may just be making stuff up. I think there's truth to what W is saying, but I think it's reflective of the situation pre BD and not now. At least that's what I get a sense of from my conversations w/ D. It will be interesting to see how this changes now that D is back in school and W isn't w/ her for a chunk of the day w/o me.

[quote=mvgfwd2]If you are/were slacking as a dad that is priority #1 to fix. Earning trust takes a lot of work, being truthful and consistent in every way. Do what you say, say what you do. Only promise what you can and will do.[quote]

100% this. The mantra i live by now. Before BD I now realize I'd fudge the truth at times to avoid Ws wrath. No more of that. Consistency of action is also big on my list of things I'm focused on.

Darknes, I sent this back to W before seeing your msg.

Me: "Ok. I hear you on all this. It's difficult for me to discuss this sort of stuff on text. I'll ask her if she'd like to do the pool sunday morning. You're welcome to join us if you'd like."

It's honest. Discussing this on text w/ her always leads to her taking things out of context (either on her end, or bc i suck at texting). Never goes anywhere productive.

W almost seems to just be lumping D in w/ her complaints, like she's building a coalition against me. W continuously says she has ZERO trust in me. W continuously says I've been unreliable in the past. Etc, etc, etc

All i know is that D has no issues going fishing, hiking, swimming, etc w/ just me. We have tons of conversation around most everything. Ds told me her worries about my W, about her boyfriend at school, about her friends, etc. D has no issues being around me or showing me affection. All of that tends to not jive w/ Ws view of how D sees me. There is the possibility for trust issues b/t D and me going back to before BD, and i know if there are it'll take a while to fully get them back. Part of those, though, are bc of how W portrayed me to D wrt the meds and food situation. The other part of those falls squarely on me for having broken promises in the past, knowingly or unknowingly. Like I've told my W, i accept blame for my faults and issues from pre BD. At least I'm actively working to fix them.

I'll discuss w/ D when we get a moment w/o W this weekend. Am going to ask her if I'm spending too much time w/ her or if she feels like I'm keeping her from doing fun things. I won't necessarily share w/ W, but it'll help me to frame things.

So, I'm somewhat in a conundrum here. I think we all agree there's good potential W is angling to drive a wedge b/t D and I. For what purpose, I'm not fully sure. Could be for custody, by causing me to back away and spend less time w/ her. Could be for her continuing to maintain control over D and she feels threatened by me stepping up and gaining influence w/ D. Could just be W projecting her issues w/ me onto D.

Whatever it is, it doesn't seem healthy or good. Lob onto the top of that W saying she'll do MC. Her reason for wanting to do that is also currently unclear.

I want to pursue the MC angle, but wish it wasn't in 3 weeks. I want to see what her level of effort is once we get into that. I think a lot of clarity comes from seeing that.

However, I don't want her to blindside me by forcing me away from my D when she seems to need me the most.

It almost seems like i continue down the path I'm going, almost like MC hasn't been put on the table. I continue to push to do my Ds meds and food, i continue to spend quality time w/ D and build that R, and i continue to be a rock for D like this is not going to work out.

The part i struggle w/ is should i still retain that L and work through a plan w/ them for certain scenarios. How does W view that and does it kill the MC idea. Maybe i shouldn't worry about that so much. Open to thoughts.