Zeus, it's certainly true that we are not responsible for others behavior as MWD talks about in her books how we act can very much influence (change) how a person acts. That's what Dr. Phil means by you teach people how to treat you. If a child throws a temporary tantrum to get what he wants and gets it, we just taught him how to treat us. Same goes her a H or a W. If a H throws a tantrum and doesn't get their way but instead gets shut down, we help them in the long run. The problem is far too many people get away with their crazy behavior which only emboldens them to continue it. This is all very proven. My last example would be its not a Ws fault if her H strikes her - the first time. It is much her fault if she allows it to happen again.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Zeus, it's certainly true that we are not responsible for others behavior as MWD talks about in her books how we act can very much influence (change) how a person acts. That's what Dr. Phil means by you teach people how to treat you. If a child throws a temporary tantrum to get what he wants and gets it, we just taught him how to treat us. Same goes her a H or a W. If a H throws a tantrum and doesn't get their way but instead gets shut down, we help them in the long run. The problem is far too many people get away with their crazy behavior which only emboldens them to continue it. This is all very proven. My last example would be its not a Ws fault if her H strikes her - the first time. It is much her fault if she allows it to happen again.
Don,
I must speak up here for that statement ^^^ belies the awful truth about domestic violence and strays far into victim blaming territory. As a board member of a DV organization, I have learned that it's not as simple as what you've laid out here. Abuse occurs over time and starts out so subtly that many victims don't notice it at first and as time goes on, becomes caught up in a truly vicious cycle of rentless abuse at all levels which makes it VERY difficult for them to get out of a IPV (Intimate Partner Violence) situation.
I would caution you and others from getting into victim blaming mindset. We need to really move away from it and become their allies. Abuse is NEVER the victim's fault. NEVER.
Wonka, I agree. Abuse is slow and escalating and you get used it while it happens, like water slowly warming. It's sometimes difficult to recognize or label when you're in the middle of it.
Don, besides that, I agree with you. I think WH feels a certain degree of contempt towards me because I took him back after finding out about the A. He said when we married that he needed 'someone to keep him straight'. I told him I wanted a partner who could keep himself straight and I hoped he wouldn't put that on me.
Originally Posted By: roist
I meant he could perceive it that way. If Ow is gone you may not counterfile.Just how HE may interprete the OW statement. Don't worry about that too much. It is done and he will: interpret things his own way regardless.It was just an outsider view that could help in future.
Roist, I see what you mean now. My statement was just meant to be a fact of the law - not that I wouldn't file at-fault if she moved out, but that I (at least I think) can't if she doesn't live there. But he may not have taken it that way, he may have interpreted it the way you describe. Thanks for pointing that out!
Cherry, I have sooo much evidence. And our state laws even considers it a misdemeanor that she's living there now. It's the same there, she'll be named and may be called in to make a statement.
You know a funny thing? He said early on that part of why he married me, was because he wanted a wife who could be a great role model for his daughter. And I took it as a compliment... I guess now when she's all grown up, he doesn't need me anymore.
Phoebe, I hope you're GAL'ing like crazy in a good way! I'm experiencing an interesting indifference today. I can think about WH and OW and it doesn't really affect or hurt me at all. Probably won't last, but I'm enjoying it for now and realizing it means it's eventually going to be that way.
I said to my IC last week that I am getting a little tired and annoyed at how WH is dominating my thoughts, and she said that was a GREAT sign. I recognize the feeling from right before I stopped crying for 3 hours every night - I was getting bored and exasperated with it.
Had a lovely lunch with a newish friend today that ended up as a 4 hour conversation! It didn't feel that long. Her D was final in the spring, after a year - they share two young children, so she's quite a bit younger than me but we connect so well.
Zues, I actually wasn't the least bit angry or spewing - he was the angry and spewing one. It doesn't have to be a two-way argument with him, he can fly into a rage all by himself. I guess it sounds like we were arguing based on him reacting that way and hanging up on me, but the anger was all on his end. I trained myself years ago to be completely non-emotional with him to try to not escalate the daily rage.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Zues, I actually wasn't the least bit angry or spewing - he was the angry and spewing one. It doesn't have to be a two-way argument with him, he can fly into a rage all by himself. I guess it sounds like we were arguing based on him reacting that way and hanging up on me, but the anger was all on his end. I trained myself years ago to be completely non-emotional with him to try to not escalate the daily rage.
My mistake. I was referring to the content not delivery, and I was projecting because I couldn't understand the motivation beyond sending this type of message if it wasn't originated in resentment of some type. I get that you're beyond wanting R with this man and I don't blame you, but I'm not sure that means what you do doesn't matter. It still impacts you, and you're who I care about. Take care of yourself P!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Abuse was not the best example of what I was trying to say. That's much more complicated. Just as I would not blame someone for having mental illness or the disease of addiction, on the other side, there is some responsibility for not treating either - still part of these things also prevent you from seeing what is or has happened. I very much understand that part of grooming when that happens makes it hard to stop. Yet others stop it in its tracks right away, even with the same person. Again this example was a bad one to make my point with as it's just too complex. Hopefully the other examples make sense as to why we teach people how to treat us. We really do. That's why we need to teach them to treat us well and treat us how we need. Tell me what you need and I'll try my best to deliver. Expect me to guess or just know and I'll likely fail.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
Zues, I actually wasn't the least bit angry or spewing - he was the angry and spewing one. It doesn't have to be a two-way argument with him, he can fly into a rage all by himself. I guess it sounds like we were arguing based on him reacting that way and hanging up on me, but the anger was all on his end. I trained myself years ago to be completely non-emotional with him to try to not escalate the daily rage.
My mistake. I was referring to the content not delivery, and I was projecting because I couldn't understand the motivation beyond sending this type of message if it wasn't originated in resentment of some type. I get that you're beyond wanting R with this man and I don't blame you, but I'm not sure that means what you do doesn't matter. It still impacts you, and you're who I care about. Take care of yourself P!
It was the tail-end of a conversation where we had talked about some practical things, then I asked him if he had made a decision in regards to the D process. He has said pretty consistently that he is 'comfortable' being S, that he is in no hurry to file - but he has said a lot of things that turned out to be complete lies, for instance that he had NC with OW and had absolutely NO plans of moving her in...
So since he can file in a month, I asked again if he had planned to file. He said he didn't even know the time frame and is just living day to day (I think he plays more dumb than he is), but still in no rush to file. I then made him aware of what I will do if he files, purely so he would know what to expect and not be surprised by the response. I had no emotional motivation at all.
His response was extremely emotional, which wasn't unexpected. I'd rather he finds out now so he doesn't feel like he walked into a trap or that I was hiding this from him, because I know from experience he reacts badly to surprises. Hearing it from me is less of a shock (I've told him before that it's what I feel is right to do) than getting the papers served. Also, by talking to him, I can better judge his reaction and learn what he's thinking.
His anger doesn't touch me anymore, but I appreciate your concern.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Got it. I think the part I wasn't understanding is why you would file an 'at fault' divorce if he didn't want to. I was under the impression that it made no difference but would be mostly symbolic or out of spite. If there is a legal benefit to you that is reasonable based on the situation then I can see where it might make sense to take it, and if so communicating that clearly is better than surprising him. Thanks for clearing it up, I knew I was missing something.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
Oh Zues, I would have hoped you knew me better than that. I don't think I've ever done anything out of spite. With everything WH has done to me, I have tried to consistently take the high road and treat him fairly.
What you call 'symbolic' may be what I call 'principled'. I don't know if I will ask to have anything changed from our property settlement agreement (although my new L seems to think I should), for me it's about making it clear that this D wasn't my choice. I told WH when we M that 'I marry once, and I marry for life, so please don't do this if you think that D will be an option down the road'. He was in complete agreement.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
Well, you're going through an awful lot P. If Mother Teresa went through the three years you've been through it wouldn't surprise me if she slashed OW's tires and put up a billboard denouncing the two of them right outside the exit to his office.
D stinks. The loss of a family is irreplaceable. We can busy ourselves with other people, social media, iphone games, and lord knows what else, but once the decision is made that you can simply walk away from your commitments and family and etcha-sketch start over, you no longer will ever have a real committed relationship again, you will just have the flavor of the day that you use to distract yourself from the emptiness. But that's just me being cheery again. I guess that's the new normal. So you know me. I'm all about voicing our views, we may not be able to change the world, but we get to cast our vote.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I dream of it. I have thought about putting OW's picture on my Facebook page and get the word out in the 35,000 population community they live in (and I know a LOT of people there, including lots of business owners) that married women should not let her near their husbands.
But my best revenge is living well - meaning, I know WH would like nothing more than getting me down to his level so he can point at me and say I'm no better than him. The cleaner I am, the dirtier he looks.
I hope to see you in a better place in a few years, Zues. It's both the terrible and the wonderful thing about the future, that we know nothing about it.
M 16 yrs, WH62, P54 3 adult blended kids EA 11/13, BD1 6/14 PA fall 14, BD2 2/15 Piecing 2015, BD3 12/15 Separated 4/16 WH moved OW in 5/16 Divorced 6/15/17
