Me and Midlife Wife and Midlife

[CT1118]

CT118,

AND I certainly hope others see this as well;

There were a few points in there where I felt you were being quite dismissive, but I do believe this was not your intent.

We are seldom dismissive of the posters, we can and will be fully dismissive of superficial, "I know...but" justification of bad habits, or glossing over of answers types of posts.

We want you guys to put as much effort in as we are...with the understanding that you guys are also going through hell so there is some lee way.

Eric won't be dismissive of you, but he might be about a portion of your post.

"I wish she would just listen to me"
After awhile, and yes while it is a vent...we tend to swat those down. I wish I had a pony.

We only get dismissive of posters when they won't work on themselves and tend to try spread their non DB ideas to other posters, who really don't need that crap. Can I say crap? Crap crap crap! Heh not censored.

Jack three Beans -

Thank you. I did not find Eric intentionally crass. I think by your response and his his, my position was understood. If any of my answers came across as superficial I promise this was not the intention. For example, what I wrote above to Cat. You all may feel my response to Chapman's text is dismissive and short sighted. I refuse anything where the use of religion is the pretext justification for why I should but into it. So no kidding, I am open to other text recommendations, but not from that author. I do believe that I am trying to work on myself, however the suggestion of Chapman was in fact trying to spread non DB crap into my postings. MWD did not sell me her books by posting on her website that God spoke the language of DB. Chapman is an un-flushed POS who does do that on his website and blatantly seeks to capitalize his systm off the name of God IMO. If we are going to adhere to MWD principles, lets respect that she managed to create a place amorphous to religious belief and not spread that fairy tale BS to those who do not wish to receive it.

[CT1118]

Mach1, Eric....tomorrow. You old guards tell me in general that you all are not amazing, that I don't have to thank you - not my place to fix you. Will point out my W does not like compliments either. Does not stop the offer when deserved. You all are amazing.

Sci-fi fans...? Daisy. Daisy. where....is....your lov...e..fooooo..r meeeeeeee..?

Tired.

[Wonka]

CT,

I have to at that I am baffled by your tirade against Chapman and the 5LL book. We recommend the book for it works really well in tandem with the DB process. Never mind the religious undertones contained in the book.

I have benefited tremendously from the 5LL book and I tend to lend towards spirituality rather than organized religion. I love the 5LL book and most definitely know what my main LL are in giving/receiving love. Don't be too quick to dismiss the 5LL book. In fact, it aligns pretty well with the DR book in giving you a clear roadmap for a much MORE successful R.

In reading the book, I simply focused on the main points which made total sense in context of my own upbringing and how I expressed myself in romantic relationships. Talk about lightbulb moment!

Ahh moment, if you will.

Peace.

[CT1118]

Eric thanks. The quote you gave, I did think about it. Truth hurts because it might be true type of thing. Interesting - you chose a metaphor to explain something? Thanks, again.

job - that last post is what makes you amazing. I understand you may feel otherwise. Perhaps though, we have opposing viewpoints. Like I said, I can only control me and I stick to my guns, you and all who help here = amazing.

Wonka - I will take it about this far only to try and clear up my position: Chapman is a man who, like many men, utilize the name of God to sell their ideas and theories. If Chapman's products are so good he can sell them without using the name of God as rhetoric to do it. Chapman speaks in churches about his ideas which are his products and this sell products, he chooses to very specifically and deliberately utilize God to help him make his money - and to me, people who choose to market their products by capitalizing off God are pigs. I am not judging the man, but his actions I find disappointing. The 5 LL's is not new, I have read a portion of the main book and other things and find it all tarnished. So, if there are other books, where the authors do not prey upon people's dollars by suggesting that "god speaks" the language of their theory, than I am open to it. For example MWD, who only mentions using our faith as a support piece and never suggests that God would use DB'ing - even though I am pretty sure God has used LRT's on me a few times to get my attention.

Mach1 questions later today.

[Wonka]

CT,

It is clear that you have very strong personal views on Chapman's approach. Religion notwithstanding, what are your LLs in receiving and expressing love?

Mine are PT and QT when receiving (WOA is very close behind in kissing QT's butt) love and I express my love through PT and AOS.

How about you? Your turn.

[CT1118]

You are correct, and once that you see, you can't un-see..

So what is different now ?

How are you different ?

How do you react differently ???

How do you act differently...???

Ask me for specific examples if you want.

What is different now is me. My coping mechanisms, responses to situations, how I challenge myself for improvement, and the understanding of myself have all changed from how I was 8 months ago.

How I am different - well, the biggest one is that I proactively address my own problems as opposed to masking them and ignoring them. I have also accepted that I cannot fix others, nor control them. I am only in control of me. I have remembered myself and the self I wanted to be.

How do I react differently? To my W, I actually listen and prove it back with validating language or response. I do not try to fix nor control. I am willing to provide assistance if requested, but even then the type of assistance does not have me fixing and is on my own timeline. And don't run with this too far please, I am not talking about changing tires. Again, specifics are offered, but your question will need to be less general or you get a general answer.

How do I act differently? I am able to listen to people now. I take proactive steps for managing ADHD, which has helped open a world up to me I never had access to. A world where I can look people in the eye and listen to them without thinking about what I want to say next, how desperately I want them to go away, or what I am going to do or already have done that day. I am also now able to start and finish something in a single movement which I could not do before. Books get read, food does not get burned, laundry gets put away. I simply could not do that stuff before not for lack being able, but because I could not understand why it mattered. This has been important in how I act, not just w/ my W, but in all things and to all people. The few responses since coming to DB community have shown me that the significance of this in my life will not be well understood. So please do not suggest I use it nor tell me not to use it as a crutch. I don't. I state it because it is a significant part of my story.
W/ my W how do I act differently - I listen, I do not offer to fix, I do not try to control, in short I give her space and keep my own.

Yep...except that YOU aren't married to Hesse...

Sounds like an easy question huh ???

Yet it seems to take down the noblest of men when asked...

I said the questions were "simple...,but challenging", so no they did not sound easy to me. I am not convinced that I failed to answer any of those questions nor that I answered them with avoidance behavior. I believe that the few who addressed my responses back to me seemed quite taken in exception by my answers; Hesse response statistically garnished the most replies. I am convinced now that a different type of response was desired from me in the love questions.

So allow me to propose my own question about said responses to my responses:

Was it noticed that my answers to the love questions were consistently answered with conceptual responses, while all other questions were answered specifically or mentioned I did not know and would think on it? If the answer to this question is no, than I hope some confusion has potentially just been been cleaned up across all parties.
If the answer is yes than I believe we truly need to hit the reset button on our communication. Please let it be known that any expression of concern or defense I have shown is based upon the fact that I viewed the love questions in a conceptual context, exemplified by the fact that I consistently answered all of those questions with conceptual answers and am feeling as if I was either misunderstood or deliberately misled. Further, I am not looking for apology or validation on this. My reply is simply and effort to illustrate my perception so that a forward motion might begin again as I am admitting to how greatly this misunderstanding bothers me.

In the interest of not addressing problems without possible solutions, please allow me to offer potential variation(s) to those questions which would have resulted in more exact answers from me:

What does love with your W look like now that you are separated versus the worst point or best point in your M?

What actions do/did you take to show people you are/were giving them love?

When others are/were giving love to you, how are/were you showing them you are/were receiving their actions?

I am not convinced, that you know what any of these mean...

And that is okay for now...

It's also the reason that he asked you the question.

Think I covered above.

Have you read the 5LL ??

Not entirely, some of it. my reply to Wonka later will offer some insight on this.

Feeling loved and giving love, are at your core.

They are based on how you think, act, speak, etc..

Core issues don't typically ebb and flow like feelings do...

Feelings of love are often fleeting at best...true deep love however, differs greatly...

I agree with all of this.

Why did she dump you at 19/20 ?

Cause I am thinking, that the FIRST sign of this being a dysfunctional relationship, which appears to be...

I answered this one, its on my reply to eric's initial reply to me.

So how do you stop that cycle ??

How close are you to accepting 100% of your half in this ?

I also see a LOT of "we" in there...

Sure, you both sukced at this relationship.

However...YOU are the one here now...

I asked you very similar questions the other day on RSG's thread up in Newcomers...

You avoided them then, and I see a lot of avoidance in this response to the freakin Rican....

How do I stop that cycle? I can only stop it for me. Have I yet? Not too sure yet, but I am on my way. As stated above, not fixing, giving her space and taking my own, allowing her to be n her own journey, I am on mine. Seems like a start for breaking that cycle to me.

How close am I to 100% in accepting my responsibility? 100% is my answer for what I am aware of is my responsibility. If you had asked in understanding all of the ways I was responsible, I would say 90% with a caveat to adjust that number as required. I acknowledge there may be things which I was responsible for that I remain unaware of or do not know/ see yet. What I understand I was responsible for, for those I have analyzed, accepted, and begun action on, yes I accept and the proof is in the work I am doing. Some things are complete, some never will be due to what they are and for those work happens daily for the rest of life until I die.

Yeah, the "we's" in the answer were the way I understood the question, but you are fair to point this out. No argument against it. I will say that is not where my mind is at currently; I think of her and I as separate people in my mind.

Wow, if I overlook something I assure it was not intentional certainly not from avoidance. I will go back and find it. Apologies. I do not know what freakin Rican is or what response I avoided. Someone I replied to might be Puerto Rican?

Listen Mach1, and with all due respect, to you claiming I avoided something twice - since coming to DB community I have openly admitted to my wife actively sleeping with another man, that I am recovering from drug addiction, that I ignored my son, that I was molested, that my mother beat me, that I spied on my wife, that I was a criminal in my teenager years, that I struggle with violence, that I cheated on women, and every other self-deprecating item allowable to my life. Further, I have done my best to be here daily and offer support to others while seeking support on my own, my fight for self thread on newcomers is dominated by posting information dedicated primarily to helping people understand why the hell of infidelity exists. I assure you, I cannot illustrate an honesty any deeper than I have already done and I am not avoiding anything on purpose. Illustrations of action are desired here, I would suggest my actions support my claim.

I want to help you help me, but please be clear and remember sometimes people just don't understand the question or the communication approach. I also want to help those of you who help us. I have been a manager of other people for 12 years. One of the best things I proactively state is that "if you have a problem with understanding me and you do not share that problem with me, what opportunity have you given me to help either of us?" Those of you helping me are not mind readers, and I have now given you an opportunity.

In summary,
I love humor. I love knowledge. I love learning. I love challenges. I love helping people. And I love the DB community. I am here to gain understanding. I am here to be helped. I am here to offer help. I am here for understanding. I am here to become a better self. Perhaps I did not articulate myself well earlier - If you all see me defending myself heavily and/or appearing resistant to a concept you have introduced - please ask me "Hey, CT118 how did you understand that? I understood it as... or I asked you about blank the other day, what is your answer" Chances are simply I missed it or misunderstood.

[CT1118]

Wonka,

I am feeling complete solidity towards you Wonka and for how you have achieved this response. The fact that I am answering I hope reveals my respect for you and a tip of my hat to your communication skill set. I don't really know you, but you have gathered training or really paid attention via experience at somepoint in your life. Negotiating in a way which leaves both parties feeling that neither have sacrificed and both have gained...

My LL's are: Primary- PT and secondary- QT, like you, on any given Sunday WOA may have a run for the money vs. Qt. I express my love through WOA, followed by QT. However, not having read the book entire, I do not know the rules on making audibles for expressing LL to those whole feel different. Is that legit?

[CT1118]

So I spent some time the past few days reading some back threads (some of these people may still be here and I've not made the connection or missed it somehow). There's a guy MHL who I think was also named Missherlove at some point? Anyway he made some really great reference points in his story to accompany what all of you has said about time and what it does. There was another one (I clicked off it and now trying to find it again)by a guy named Fisherman or Fishing-something? Anyway, his statements about what his W said to him were identical to things mine has said. No close, not kinda, but identical; it was creepy, but writes the 'script' so to speak. Not sure if it's a problem or just the way it is - not all the links on these older threads go anywhere? Server storage?

A couple questions I have from my own sitch i have not found from readings:

- My W seems to be sick constantly, as in having a cold type of sick. She also complains of never getting any sleep. She was never a person to be illness prone before. Guess this sickness is a result of sustained stress? or are these things not even related? I have not come across much about the long term physical health affects of MLC.
- My W has been putting on weight and told me she started drinking a lot which makes her eat poorly. Now as little as a month ago this was a woman dedicated to vitamins, gym, and clean eating, something her and I always connected on. Her OM is a porky dude, not sure if that info matters. This behavior combined with the above, are these usual traits of the MLC depression I have read about?
-The other day we met at s4's new Kindergarten for orientation. For the second time (1st was back in July) she said "why did't you look this good when we were together" I don't know what that statement means and each time I have not been able to reply with words, just staring at her. Think i finally mustered a smile or something. Is that a real question in her head, I mean do they really think that or that just some BS that happens to be in the script?

Thanks

Taking my son to park now, we just finished some carrots together and he is watching cartoons. Carrots do not taste right for breakfast, but I let him pick our breakfast on Sundays.

[job]

CT,

We have had a few purges of info and when that happens, older threads or threads that the posters want removed are removed forever. The server can't hold all of them. However, did you attempt the search by going to the left hand bottom of the screen and hitting on display options and changing the Topic from the last three weeks to all? That will take you all the way back to some postings of 2008.

Okay to address your questions.

Your wife is in crisis and depression is the main ingredient. Illnesses are all part of the ride. Depression and stress will create a lot of health issues and yes, they do appear to be sick quite a bit...this is normal. Some people will develop high blood pressure and others may develop heart issues. Some become drug addicts and/or alcoholics along the way...but again, it's how they cope w/their issues. Oh, and yes, they can actually think they are sick and they aren't.

So, she's putting on weight? Drinking, eating and stress will cause this. She's probably eating a lot of junk food or fast food along the way. This is very typical. Some will lose weight as well.

Here's a link that may prove helpful to you:

In Tandem--MLC and Depression

As for her comment about you looking this good...she may think that you are working out to get her attention. She may not realize that the way you look is just the book cover and what counts is what is inside. Some of them say stuff like this. Again, typical comments. Yes, they tend to spit stuff out that is floating around in their heads. The next time she says this just say "thanks" and leave it at that.

Enjoy the park. Carrots for breakfast? Yuck! But at least he selected something healthy. They are good for the eyes!

Enjoy the time you spend w/your son.

[CT1118]

job, thank you. Yes, carrots are not good for breakfast, but I try to stick with the fun for him by letting him choose on Sunday's, only stop it when he wants us to have ice cream. He's a cool kid, more often than not he does make good food choices. We are in "downtime" right now where we have lunch and then do our own thing for an hour or so to give each other space. I study, he does Lego or one of the YouTube shows he watches. We had fish sticks and some hummus w/ bread, really not working for me....do believe I will be choosing the dinner menu tonight.

So no, I did know about the display options. I am on an iPad right now and do not see it. Will look again when I get to a laptop later tonight.

Thank you for the enlightenment on the questions. That link has some powerful things. The masking depression really hit home, but without surprise many of the items in that link hit the target. I noticed in the list of associated disorders that an attachment disorder was not mentioned. I am guessing the list was not intended to be all encompassing. Anyway, the IC I take my s4 to sniffed out an attachment disorder on him the very first visit.
When W, s4, and I were together the other day at kindergarten orientation I saw how bad it has become - from both of them towards each other. There did not seem to be anything I could do but let it play out, so that's what I did. I'm not sure how I would describe it full, but in short he did not want to leave her and it escalated to him grasping onto her like she was going away forever, screaming, and crying. She began calm, this turned to frustrated anger and next they were both holding each other and crying. I get, she is in a mental crisis, holy s is it something powerful to witness.

Will just take s4 to IC each week, try my best to be a source of stability for him, and keep working on my own self. Alongside coming here for some understanding eyes.