Me and Midlife Wife and Midlife

[CT1118]

Eric,

That was an outstanding posting.

CT,

J3B, Mach, Eric, Cadet and all of the other posters that have been posting to you came along after I was here for a while. I can honestly say that they all have grown by leaps and bounds. Why? Because they posted, they listened (at times didn't want to hear what was said), they did the hard, necessary work to work on themselves. It took a while because we all come here trying to find the magic potion to bring our spouses back...but at the end of the day, we come to realize that we can only work on ourselves. We finally figure out that some of us are controllers, co-dependents, etc., and the biggest culprit...we are fixers. We want to fix our spouses. Unfortunately, we can't.

Take time and truly listen to what the posters are saying. If it helps, print off the postings and read and re-read them again and again. Make your journey about YOU! I know you can do it! Leave your wife to her own journey and if she hits the brick wall a thousand times over, don't rescue her. She needs to learn the lessons w/o your help.

Hang in there!

job, you are all amazing. I am here to do the hard work, here to understand. When I don't seem to understand, appear argumentative, or contrary, I hope you know it is a process I go through to arrive at understanding. For example, in my reply to eric, the things I did not comment on were the things I heard loud and clear and I processed. What I did comment on, I felt I had to say, but not a word of it meant rejection of what was proposed. So please, I hope no one here ever mistakes my positions if they disagree as me being indignant.

I also know that I can never thank you all enough and trust that my return of gratitude will be a presence here one day when I am you (as in all of you) 2/5/10 years from know helping others in the way I am being helped.

[Cadet]

I have multiple emails which I almost never use, I would be fine posting one here that is nearly defunct for initial contact.

No don't do that, it is against the TOS.
I don't need you or Eric getting in trouble with the authorities.
Although I know that Eric doesn't care.

And Eric, nope I have no power on the MLC forum and can not get anyones contact info other than Virginia.

As a point of info I like Cat04 idea

You have access to a library...

Get the book...

I learned a lot about the library system in my time here.
It is an amazing place.

[CT1118]

Eric,

BUYING the book for him...while nice...is fixing...

Do we need a crash course?

CT,

You are in Grad school. You have access to a library...

Get the book...

meh. Funny though. Eric - as I said in my post, that was an incredibly nice offer you made. Only I can fix me. You can buy me a beer or a sandwich one day I hope. If you do make it to the outer banks, let's just say I'm close. So that's out there.

cat04 - sometimes the answer is right under our noses isn't it. I do indeed have a powerful level of library access. Thanks for pointing out the obvious that I overlooked.

[Mach1]

- Why did I think some of these behaviors were healthy? I do not recall stating that I did. I can say that while I did not think behavior was healthy, I also did not think it was unhealthy; in other words, I did not think about mental health until I began with an IC in Feb 2016. In my opening post I put some things about me. I could do a whole post on my issues. You said it - did not know what healthy was, and you don't know what you don't know.

You are correct, and once that you see, you can't un-see..

So what is different now ?

How are you different ?

How do you react differently ???

How do you act differently...???

- What does love mean to me? May not be the most pragmatic of answers, but Hesse is my favorite author: “One must find the source within one's own Self, one must possess it. Everything else was seeking -- a detour, an error.”

Yep...except that YOU aren't married to Hesse...

Sounds like an easy question huh ???

Yet it seems to take down the noblest of men when asked...

-What does love look like to me? Like the water in a river. Deep and shallow, turbulent and calm, narrow and wide, moving around rocks, moving over sand, transporting objects, flowing and frozen, dynamic and static, able to dry out of existence and able to return.

- How do I give love? Dmn these are simple questions, but challenging. I am introverted and have type II ADHD, but I am working on overcoming the detrimental pieces of each. The expression of emotion does not come easy for me. I try to respect, to understand, to show compassion, to express, to be silent, to allow, to forgive, to understand. But when I truly love someone, I am able to give of myself entire and so few have ever gotten that from me. However, I am fallible from the above and I can and have lost sight what I should be giving.

- How do I receive love? Might depend on the person or the place. An example, from my dog it is without doubt, from my son it is with purity, from my W it is with patience, from my mother it is with hesitance. However, I think you would understand if I said these adjectives are continually evolving.

I am not convinced, that you know what any of these mean...

And that is okay for now...

It's also the reason that he asked you the question.

Have you read the 5LL ??

Feeling loved and giving love, are at your core.

They are based on how you think, act, speak, etc..

Core issues don't typically ebb and flow like feelings do...

Feelings of love are often fleeting at best...true deep love however, differs greatly...

- I am not so sure I can give you her dumping me at 19/20 years old as an early sign of much. In hindsight and context of the story, it appears clear. But if women dumped men with explanation on the regular the whole "its not you, its me" thing wouldn't be a thing. She was not the first or the last to do that to me around that age, as is the case with many young people.

Why did she dump you at 19/20 ?

Cause I am thinking, that the FIRST sign of this being a dysfunctional relationship, which appears to be...

On and Off
On again
Off again
On again
Off again

A relationship where you BOTH avoid and run away from things rather than to face things...

MAY have started with this...

- Why do I think we move through relationships but remain in secret communication with each other? Well, because of our childhoods in short. Because we both have always been in love with each other, but neither of us never really understood or knew how to love in a way which was healthy. Because we both learned that we were able to destroy others without much regard for their feelings. Because we both want to be with each other and want to figure out a way. Because we both grew up thinking we were incapable of loving others and meeting each other tossed a wrench into that idea. Because we both could not escape the spectre of our adverse childhood experiences. Because we both have trust issues. Because we both are selfish. Because we both believe at our cores we are good people but have not learned how to stop hurting others. Because we both lacked self control. Lastly, because until I walked into that IC office in Feb 2016 I had never sought a permanent way to be entirely better as a human being.

So how do you stop that cycle ??

How close are you to accepting 100% of your half in this ?

I also see a LOT of "we" in there...

Sure, you both sukced at this relationship.

However...YOU are the one here now...

I asked you very similar questions the other day on RSG's thread up in Newcomers...

You avoided them then, and I see a lot of avoidance in this response to the freakin Rican....


Just my opinion from reading what you write...

I see you posting here, yet not really taking much of this to heart. Because you believe that eventually, SHE will "snap out of it" , and want to come back. Just like has ALWAYS happened in the past...


There is a difference, BIG difference between DBing, and just waiting it out...



Which one are you really ???

[cat04]

Eric,

BUYING the book for him...while nice...is fixing...

Do we need a crash course?

CT,

You are in Grad school. You have access to a library...

Get the book...

meh. Funny though. Eric - as I said in my post, that was an incredibly nice offer you made. Only I can fix me. You can buy me a beer or a sandwich one day I hope. If you do make it to the outer banks, let's just say I'm close. So that's out there.

cat04 - sometimes the answer is right under our noses isn't it. I do indeed have a powerful level of library access. Thanks for pointing out the obvious that I overlooked.

Hey, don't meh the lesson. Sometimes we don't see this crap in ourselves and we ALL need reminders sometimes. I just love to pick on E...

He says I remind him of his mom.

Another book to get while you are taking advantage of your library resources...

Five Love Languages.

It is a quick read...

You can actually apply it to your son as well.

This is more along the lines of where E was going when he asked you how you show and receive love.

Basic behavioral stuff.

[Jack_Three_Beans]

CT118,

AND I certainly hope others see this as well;

There were a few points in there where I felt you were being quite dismissive, but I do believe this was not your intent.

We are seldom dismissive of the posters, we can and will be fully dismissive of superficial, "I know...but" justification of bad habits, or glossing over of answers types of posts.

We want you guys to put as much effort in as we are...with the understanding that you guys are also going through hell so there is some lee way.

Eric won't be dismissive of you, but he might be about a portion of your post.

"I wish she would just listen to me"
After awhile, and yes while it is a vent...we tend to swat those down. I wish I had a pony.

We only get dismissive of posters when they won't work on themselves and tend to try spread their non DB ideas to other posters, who really don't need that crap. Can I say crap? Crap crap crap! Heh not censored.

[ericmsant2]

CT

You have taken so much time on my posts and I cannot thank you enough.

No need to thank me. My only ask, is that you pay it forward, find the people that are coming behind you and help them.

There were a few points in there where I felt you were being quite dismissive, but I do believe this was not your intent.

You are correct, that was not my intent at all. Here’s the thing, understanding and answering some of these questions take time. Usually, the LBS does not want that time. They want the MLCer to come back and come back now. I was not being dismissive. I was pushing a little. I want you to think about this quote. I do not need a response just think about it.

“If it stings – look at it”
When someone says or post something that stirs up a feeling. It usually means that we still have work to do.

You ask a creative introverted mind a question like that, the answer you get may be abstract, but that does not make it less true for the respondent.

Okay. I would still like more of an action type answer. Read Mach1 post on your thread. Chances are he is explaining much better than I can.

Also, ADHD and introversion have ruined me, I have gone to great lengths to work beyond them in the past 6 months and am proud of the progress.

Not trying to minimize the impact ADHD has….I will say that often times, people use the issues we have as a crutch to avoid dealing with the bigger issues. For me, I had ton of excuses that I gave myself….”you don’t understand”, “but the kids”, “my sitch is different”, etc. Try to avoid using things as an excuse to avoid digging deep. As for the progress, I am happy for you. Keep it up.

Rest assured though, this not only guides how I loved in the past, but how I am friends, how I am a son, how I am a father, how I am a leader, etc. But I am awake and it will be a challenge, sometimes minute by minute, but I refuse to let it govern my future.

Good – don’t let it govern your future. Now, how have you “loved”?

To meet your example head on, my mother did slap me everyday, she still loved me, her love had nothing to do with the chaos in her mind which ruined her capacity for a healthy handling of her pain.

Good point. I may not agree 100% with this. How do you think your mother relationship impacted YOU?

"I don't, I don't want to kill you! What would I do without you? Go back to ripping off mob dealers? No, no, NO! No. You... you... complete me."

I love that line!

job, you are all amazing. I am here to do the hard work, here to understand. When I don't seem to understand, appear argumentative, or contrary, I hope you know it is a process I go through to arrive at understanding.

Yes Job is amazing. As for the argumentative, we all get it – It does not mean that we will stop pushing you. The key….is when YOU are start pushing YOURSELF.

I just love to pick on E...

He says I remind him of his mom.

FTR, she ain’t lying. Picks on me all the time. She used to call me bonehead. LOL. And yeah, she does look a little like my mother.

Have a great weekend and do me a favor, read Mach post several times and give your responses to his questions a lot of thought.

Peace,
Eric

[job]

CT,

I do not consider myself amazing...I went through Hades and back w/my xh and his MLC. He was a monster from the get go and remained that way for about 6 years and then finally settled down into the next stage of playing at replay and there he is...still stuck. He finally filed for divorce, married the OW, she died 9 year later from ovarian cancer and while she was in Hospice, he was on the search for his next crutch, all the while staying in contact w/me as a "just a friend". Now, I don't hear from him and it's for the best. I moved forward and have been living my life to the fullest.

I didn't discover DB until after I opened the door and basically helped him out the door. By the time he flew the coop, my marriage was completely over and I knew in my heart that he would never return...why? Because he destroyed everything in his path and the damage was too great to repair. However, I will say this, DB was my lifeline for many years. I have met a few of the most wonderful people here and have stayed in touch w/them over the years. I learned that I was stronger than I thought and one thing I did manage to learn...that is patience! Patience was not something I had much of, but I've learned to count to ten before saying something that I may not be able to take back, I've learned to listen, ask questions and then offer up suggestions/opinions.

I remain here to pay it forward. There are so many people who need help in understanding that you can't fix these people, but you can certainly fix yourselves as you travel the Yellow Brick Road.

You'll get there. Have patience and I do have a truckload of shovels to help you along the way.

[CT1118]

I choose a digression to begin with. I studied martial arts for a few years in my early 20's, studied with a man from Samurai lineage; he ran a fairly brutal but honest school. I got quite good at it; Aikido, Aiki-jitsu, and Kendo, I took everything the Dojo offered. Thing is, once the higher ranks realized you were getting good, you tended to be challenged frequently.

So, more often than not I began being requested - as in told - to remain after class. Sensai would leave and I would be faced with 2-5 black belts who attack, sometimes one to one, sometimes all at once. There were only about 2-3 students who received the beatings with me, which were referred to as "gentle kindness" from the higher ranks. And by beatings, I mean we were allowed to defend ourselves in full contact martial arts against people who were significantly more trained than us, defense was bit of a misnomer when it all began.

I had my wrist bruised to the bone once by a black belt with a bokto (wooden sword we sparred with) who went to far - he did it on purpose and in my 2nd day of the Kendo courses. I was exceedingly angry and wanted bite his throat out - in those days I could have, but I took it, barely showed it. So I thought. Other black belts saw what he did, at the time and after class when one of them gave me first aid. I found out later (many months later) the black belts self regulated their own, out of site of the lower ranks. He was forced to lay face down on wood and the Sensai beat him with that bokto across dude's back until a point was made.

Not long after that I was sparring with the black belts again. The things they said to me had changed. I was told I held back and was willing to be hit before I did hit. I agreed. On a particular weekend training a higher rank paired me w/ a slightly lower rank black belt and they both told me not to hold back.

At the call of hajime, he threw a right strike at my face and I caught his wrist on the underside in my left hand, used his own momentum to guide it up and lean it back towards his own head while my right hand connected and shoved his elbow in the same direction all as I was stepping forward with full body weight and all in a motion, however long motions take. The result was his right fist behind his right shoulder blade, arm bent at the elbow which was parallel to top of his head and by the time his mouth responded to the pain for him to scream OSS his right should was dislocated and his right tendon in his elbow torn.

Now, neither of us knew that at the time and neither of us were basterds. I helped him and I call for help and I apologized. He was not upset, but hurting, and he took it very well. He told me later I responded with training and did what I was told to do. Later on at the next dojo party whenever that was, he showed up with his arm in a sling and a brace. He actually apologized to me. He knew I did not mean to hurt him, but he did mean to push me. We talked for a while. I quit that dojo not long after. No other reason than I left the state for work. I may have forgotten or neglected all those fancy moves and philosophies, but not how fondly I recall those days and those teachers.

Now the above was true. And if it seemed like crystal clear allegory, than it seems I have finally been successful in my communications. So its important you know: I had not thought about the above tale in such detail in quite some time, so something about my page 8 here stirred a significant memory replay. Next, the above was a learning experience like one I have never had until that time - that physical pain can come in the form of love and education. Also true of it is that I still love all of those people (even the guy I wanted to esophagate with my teeth is off the sht list) even if I no longer know them. Lastly, I did not write that tale from my life with the intent for modern actors to replace past actors.

So, I get it. I know why. I understand. Now...I am ready to reply to the above from all of you. And what choice do I have anyway? You black belts scarred all of the lower belts off my mat, so if pain is the way to understand the conversation... hajime.

[CT1118]

and the biggest culprit...we are fixers. We want to fix our spouses. Unfortunately, we can't.
She needs to learn the lessons w/o your help. Hang in there!

I don't want to fix her, I want her to fix herself...and as I accept your words and say mine out loud...there is no difference between the two. Indeed.

I don't need you or Eric getting in trouble with the authorities.
Although I know that Eric doesn't care.

And you just made meeting Eric so much more relatable and interesting...

Hey, don't meh the lesson. Sometimes we don't see this crap in ourselves and we ALL need reminders sometimes. I just love to pick on E...

He says I remind him of his mom.

Cat04 - we do not know each other and learning. I did not "meh' with seriousness, but as a joke. Not sure if you got that or if I did not get your reply? In my next life as a WASP'y me monster princess life, on my 16th b-day I promise to mean meh it when I say it. I hope until then you will love to pick on me, I further hope you never remind me of my mother.

Did I read 5LL? - Pieces of it, in an airport. Please don't ask me about that author again. Dr. Chapman is a pig. Thank you.